Wedding between Tamil Brahmin and Seer Karuneegar

[renuka]

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Dear Maash,

You do this..marry this guy and stay far far away from your inlaws and your parents..that will give you ample breathing space.

I feel many think that an intercaste marriage wont work out but actually it does not work out most of the time becos parents and inlaws interfere and each still want to hold on to their personal tradition.

So you work something out with your future husband...sit and decide how you would want your life to be...think like a soldier and at the same time like a saint..that is know how and when to build your defense and how to show love and compassion.

Remember IT'S YOUR LIFE!
IT'S YOUR DECISION!

I hope you dont get confused after reading all posts here..whatever you do..do not ever show your future husband this site and posts and responses..he will be hurt beyond words that caste and tradition matters so much.

So let love in your heart guide you..if you feel you will be happy..go ahead..in life there is no guarantee for anything.

Any marriage can break down..be it lovvu or arranged but in India it seems that others around want to make sure a love marriage breaks down by hook or crook.

Keep away from such people....if the same intercaste marriage happens in their own family..that time they will sing a different tune.

To heck with the world...be happy even if it involves taking risks..after all even same caste marriages with perfect 10 horoscopes fail.

No one ever knows tomorrow.

 

[Vaagmi]

Tks in #8

If he is someone of strong character he may be right for you. Let your feelings of infatuation not come in this important decision. If you are very sure about his sense of integrity and his competence then you want to seek full support of your mother to ahead with your wedding.

You can tell your mother that Brahmin by qualities (Sattvic, high integrity, focus on excellence, keeps his word, etc) is what is emphasized in our scriptures. You can tell them that he may be born as a non-brahmin but he is a Brahmin by qualities as emphasized in our scriptures such as Bhagavad Gita.

A teak tree that grows in the wild and the carved teakwood beams used in building and decorating the durbar hall of the Padmanabhapuram Palace, down south, are both “teak wood” only. But what a lot of difference. Teak is the generic name that determines a certain possibilities. Seasoning makes it real. Saatvik qualities are possibilities. But brahminhood is the centuries of seasoning undergone. Quickie can not be the original real.

Assure your mother that you will never give her up and that her blessings are key for your happiness.

The fear is not there these days. No one is dependent on any one else. It is the pain and the trauma of loss. Loss of a treasure with possibilities to an alien

 

[tks]

For someone new to the forum it is possible to get confused with some of the responses.

The focus on sex is a distraction in my view since it minimizes the seriousness of the question.

Sex is an important component in marriage but it is only a component. Beside there is no way to figure out apriori if it will sustain in one's life for many years.

There are many passionate lovers who marry after 'trying out for many years before buying' into marriage. Many of these marriages still end up in divorce since it is not possible to predict sustained sense of passion ahead of time.

Vedic marriages regardless of the grouping one finds themselves in, is rooted in friendship. Our culture is rooted in harmony with families that come together via marriage.

There are many good posts in my view and I hope the young lady is able to make the best decision for her life.

 

[tks]

A teak tree that grows in the wild and the carved teakwood beams used in building and decorating the durbar hall of the Padmanabhapuram Palace, down south, are both “teak wood” only. But what a lot of difference. Teak is the generic name that determines a certain possibilities. Seasoning makes it real. Saatvik qualities are possibilities. But brahminhood is the centuries of seasoning undergone. Quickie can not be the original real.




The fear is not there these days. No one is dependent on any one else. It is the pain and the trauma of loss. Loss of a treasure with possibilities to an alien

The issue today is most people carrying Brahmin Tag are fakes

 

[renuka]

The focus on sex is a distraction in my view since it minimizes the seriousness of the question.

.

So is the idea of a Guna Brahmin..at least sex exists..everyone knows that Guna Brahmin is like Flowers in the Sky or a Rabbits horn or a son of a barren woman..that is It does NOT exists.

So its not really fair in my opinion to try to make the a girl convince her parents that her groom is a Guna Brahmin!LOL

Actually I did not want to bring this up..but since you thought sex post was a distraction..so i felt ok let me also state the focus on Gunas is a distraction in my view since it minimizes the seriousness of the question.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renukaji,

For me I will be point blank..my answer is not going to be from Bhagavad Geeta or Manu Smirti or talk about Varna Sankar and Gunas blah blah blah..my answer is going to be from the Kama Sutra! Here goes...I am typing this word for word from an article I read..(no authors name was given in that article..but it was written by a Swamiji).
The Swamiji says:
Vatsyayana in his Kama Sutra speaks about the relationship between husband and wife.It may sound strange..but this is how he explains it.
The relationship between husband and wife begins in sex.The ultimate goal of a married relationship should flower into compassion.
I call this ladder of love as the incremental growth in relation between husband and wife.
Sex--Love--Friendliness---Devotion---Compassion.
The center of sex is lust.
The center of love is caring.
The center of friendliness is non-domination.
The center of devotion is sacredness.
The center of compassion is forgiveness.
The relationship between a husband and wife begins in lust as mentioned above..the next stage is caring------- they feel for each other.
The 3rd stage is friendship that blossoms between the two.
In pure friendship persons can remain in equality.They would not feel that one is inferior to the other.
They would not plot to ruin each other.There is no domination of one over the other.
When friendship develops between the husband and wife..both of them would cherish their relationship as something sacred;they would protect the relationship.
The final stage in this relationship is compassion.The basis of compassion is forgiveness.Whether its husband or wife,it is but natural,mistakes do happen.
Forgiving mistakes made by the other is the last and highest stage of the relationship.Only at this level does the relationship become complete.
Can you transform a sexual relationship into a sacred relationship?
In this process a spiritual intimacy will develop.
If your relationship has forgiving quality,then you dont bug each other but lovingly hug each other.Only in this space is a relationship fulfilling.

Ok Maash..if you see this happening eventually in your relationship..the go ahead and get married..Prasad ji is right..dont worry too much about attire like Madisar..feel free to wear a Hijab or even a Bikini!

Take care and have fun!

Point to note: Deiviga Kadhal comes in only in final stage!

This is standing the traditions and the institution of marriage and family on its head and giving it a spin.

This prescription by the so called swamiji and enthusiastically recommended by you requires first a partner to start the process-a partner who is ready to go to bed before marriage to find the meaning for lust before trying to explore other things like love, friendliness, devotion and compassion. And if the chemistry does not work out well, there will be the need to try it with another partner on another bed on another day. LOL. I think the word ladder has been chosen with deliberation because you can have the ladder any way – upside down or down side up-the first step can become the last step and vice versa depending on which way the ladder is kept. LOL.

Madisar is a non-issue here.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Maash,

You do this..marry this guy and stay far far away from your inlaws and your parents..that will give you ample breathing space.

I feel many think that an intercaste marriage wont work out but actually it does not work out most of the time becos parents and inlaws interfere and each still want to hold on to their personal tradition.

So you work something out with your future husband...sit and decide how you would want your life to be...think like a soldier and at the same time like a saint..that is know how and when to build your defense and how to show love and compassion.

Remember IT'S YOUR LIFE!
IT'S YOUR DECISION!

I hope you dont get confused after reading all posts here..whatever you do..do not ever show your future husband this site and posts and responses..he will be hurt beyond words that caste and tradition matters so much.

So let love in your heart guide you..if you feel you will be happy..go ahead..in life there is no guarantee for anything.

Any marriage can break down..be it lovvu or arranged but in India it seems that others around want to make sure a love marriage breaks down by hook or crook.

Keep away from such people....if the same intercaste marriage happens in their own family..that time they will sing a different tune.

To heck with the world...be happy even if it involves taking risks..after all even same caste marriages with perfect 10 horoscopes fail.

No one ever knows tomorrow.

Dear Maash,
I am sorry that you got such negative comments.
Renukaji has given you some practical advice. I wish you success in what ever you choose. Majority of people commenting here are past their prime. They may not accept the reality on the ground, and are living in the past. only you can decide, what is right for you.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Maash,
I am sorry that you got such negative comments.
Renukaji has given you some practical advice. I wish you success in what ever you choose. Majority of people commenting here are past their prime. They may not accept the reality on the ground, and are living in the past. only you can decide, what is right for you.

Dear prasadji,

You do not know about the members here - at least their age. So, whether past the prime , in the prime or going towards the prime are all just fanciful midsummer night's dream of you. At least I can speak for myself. I am still in my prime-whatever you think the prime is. Comments appear positive or negative depending on which side of the line you are. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Maash,

You do this..marry this guy and stay far far away from your inlaws and your parents..that will give you ample breathing space.

I feel many think that an intercaste marriage wont work out but actually it does not work out most of the time becos parents and inlaws interfere and each still want to hold on to their personal tradition.

So you work something out with your future husband...sit and decide how you would want your life to be...think like a soldier and at the same time like a saint..that is know how and when to build your defense and how to show love and compassion.

Remember IT'S YOUR LIFE!
IT'S YOUR DECISION!

I hope you dont get confused after reading all posts here..whatever you do..do not ever show your future husband this site and posts and responses..he will be hurt beyond words that caste and tradition matters so much.

So let love in your heart guide you..if you feel you will be happy..go ahead..in life there is no guarantee for anything.

Any marriage can break down..be it lovvu or arranged but in India it seems that others around want to make sure a love marriage breaks down by hook or crook.

Keep away from such people....if the same intercaste marriage happens in their own family..that time they will sing a different tune.

To heck with the world...be happy even if it involves taking risks..after all even same caste marriages with perfect 10 horoscopes fail.

No one ever knows tomorrow.

Dear Renukaji,

I understand. You remember you said Vaishnavites are "brutal". LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

My friend's daughter married a NB guy and the marriage was in the groom's family style! And, I was happy to see the newly weds

do pAdhapoojai to both their parents, where as in brahmin wedding, the girl's father does it for the groom!

RRji,

When you give a dhanam to someone, you are supposed to wash his feet, make him feel comfortable about receiving the dhanam, remove completely from your mind the ahankaram and mamakaram and then give away the dhanam with no further attachment to it, however precious it may be. That is why the washing the feet of the groom in marriage rituals. It has nothing to do with any padha poojai to an elder. In a ritualistic hindu Brahmin marriage, the varan is the most respected person as he has consented to accept the kanya in a dhanam. (no superiority/inferiority or gender madness implied here, please) Marriage is a kanyadhanam.

 

[Vaagmi]

The issue today is most people carrying Brahmin Tag are fakes

May be true to an extent. But that is not the issue in focus here. The issue here put forth in OP is different.

 

[auh]

Namaskaram to all!

I am tamil brahmin iyer girl. I like a guy who is not a brahmin. He belongs to a caste called the Karuneegar/Seer Karuneegar Pillai and he belongs to Janaka Maharishi gothram.

I read that Karuneegars are from Kayasthas lineage and that they belong to both brahmin and kshatriya varnas. So can I consider him as a brahmin. Will he be eligible to wear a poonal during our wedding?

I am usually not a person who is so much into castes but this would really help when I am talking to my parents regarding the same.

My mom says if I marry a person who is not a brahmin, I lose my brahmin status and that I am not even allowed to wear madissar ( which is one of my favorite attire ).

Any insights would be very helpful.

Well, let me also add to the pot pourri here...

Maash has not asked anybody for advise on whether to marry or not, rather, she has requested assistance as to how she might be able to garner her "traditional" parents' acceptance to this wedding. And hence the background.

My views:

If only ponool and madisars could make or mar a brahmin, it would have been much easy decision to make. Assuming that Maash has given her heart to this boy, and probably, any explanation is only an act to make up to the parents so as to assuage their feelings, the best points can be put forward, as in vegetarianism, discipline, clean habits, devotion (if applicable), apart from the lineage part.

Krishna of the Gita says that just as humans change clothes, the soul changes bodies. I say this lest somebody worry about madisar...

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri auh,

actually she pits her decision which is the following:

Namaskaram to all!

I am tamil brahmin iyer girl. I like a guy who is not a brahmin. He belongs to a caste called the Karuneegar/Seer Karuneegar Pillai and he belongs to Janaka Maharishi gothram.

I read that Karuneegars are from Kayasthas lineage and that they belong to both brahmin and kshatriya varnas. So can I consider him as a brahmin. Will he be eligible to wear a poonal during our wedding?

I am usually not a person who is so much into castes but this would really help when I am talking to my parents regarding the same.

against her mother's:

My mom says if I marry a person who is not a brahmin, I lose my brahmin status and that I am not even allowed to wear madissar ( which is one of my favorite attire ).

So it seems there is still not certainty in her mind about marrying the boy. But only Maash can clarify.

 

[Raji Ram]

RRji,

When you give a dhanam to someone, you are supposed to wash his feet, make him feel comfortable about receiving the dhanam, remove completely from your mind the ahankaram and mamakaram and then give away the dhanam with no further attachment to it, however precious it may be. That is why the washing the feet of the groom in marriage rituals. It has nothing to do with any padha poojai to an elder. In a ritualistic hindu Brahmin marriage, the varan is the most respected person as he has consented to accept the kanya in a dhanam. (no superiority/inferiority or gender madness implied here, please) Marriage is a kanyadhanam.

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I know that the groom in a brahmin wedding = Maha Vishnu!

May be that is why. now a days. girls expect the Maha Vishnu to protect her parents for ever! :angel:

 

[Raji Ram]

To all dear advisers!

Maash has posted two more which are added later on since she is a newbie!

Please read them HERE and HERE :ranger:

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr. Tks

Sri Srinivasan

It seems you have mischarecterized what I stated to the young lady who posed the question.

Best is to just state what you have in mind

Please excuse me, Sir.

Rishikesan

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

The issue today is most people carrying Brahmin Tag are fakes

Does it include everyone who claims he is a brahmin in this forum?

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Dear Maash,

I am an Iyengar. My husband is a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. I wear madissar whenever I wish because I like it and my husband loves to see me in madissar.

If others dont like it, it is not a problem with MY mind nor with my husband.

We are married since many years and we are the happiest couple in the world.

 

[tks]

So is the idea of a Guna Brahmin..at least sex exists..everyone knows that Guna Brahmin is like Flowers in the Sky or a Rabbits horn or a son of a barren woman..that is It does NOT exists.

So its not really fair in my opinion to try to make the a girl convince her parents that her groom is a Guna Brahmin!LOL

Actually I did not want to bring this up..but since you thought sex post was a distraction..so i felt ok let me also state the focus on Gunas is a distraction in my view since it minimizes the seriousness of the question.

Let us use the words like integrity and other such character traits instead of Guna for now since the words Guna and Brahmin do not go well for you.

Lasting friendship is possible when people involved in the friendship can trust and count on each other. What parents want is that their children marry someone who is trustworthy and are likely to be a lasting friend. They superimpose this wish by also requiring that such people are best found within their caste only.

This young lady is asking a question about how to ensure she convinces her mother. Telling her to focus on evaluating extent of sexual attraction only is a distraction. Telling her to ignore everyone including her mother if her attraction is strong is unwise in the long run.

Changing the discussion with her mother from caste specifics to character focus is relevant if she is convinced the man she is considering to marry is of exemplary character in her mind.

 

[tks]

To all dear advisers!

Maash has posted two more which are added later on since she is a newbie!

Please read them HERE and HERE :ranger:

The links do not seem to be right

 

[Maash]

Hi!

Dear Maash,

I am an Iyengar. My husband is a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ. I wear madissar whenever I wish because I like it and my husband loves to see me in madissar.

If others dont like it, it is not a problem with MY mind nor with my husband.

We are married since many years and we are the happiest couple in the world.

Aww..that is very sweet! Long live and prosper My hearty wishes..

 

[krish44]

I would first like to thank all those who replied for my query with their great thoughts. It really helped me a lot.

I would like to mention that there is absolutely no objection from my guy or his family to get married in our (tambrahm) style. He would wear a poonal and panchakacham also.

The question here is, now that he is okay to wear a poonal, what would be the procedure to get it done. Can he wear one right before the wedding and can he remove it afterwards (I know it is maha paavam to remove and wear poonal like that). But still if such a situation arises in the future, is it okay to do that. Please help.

I would also need some tips to convince my parents in a legitimate way. They should not think I am forcing them. They should understand that I have made the right choice. Why I am asking this is, some of you here would definitely be in my parents age and I would want to know what you would expect if your daughter runs into a similar situation and bring a non brahmin boy. This will really help me.

Thank you all again for all the help!

I truly appreciate!

Regards
Maash

Maash
I have no idea if it is mahapaavum to wear poonal just before wedding and remove after the wedding . I am a vaishnavite brahimn. this is exactly what I did

I never had a poonal ceremony . this was 35 years back . I did the same at my children s wedding . frankly most of my relatives felt sorry for me . and said paavum he

has to wear a thread to get /get his children married. lol . do not take all these rituals over seriously. the idea is to get married with minimum hurt to all around you.

I have a christian relative who had a homam for griha pravesam as per hindu custom wearing panchakacham .only his wife had to lend him her gothra for the function.

I might be your grandfathers age . i have both accumulated experience and many paavums I have committed for what I consider good causes. pl do not feel

unnecessarily guilty

only be sure you want the man you are marrying. there may be a lot of unpleasantness from close relations .you require a lot of inner strength and convictions to go

ahead and face upto them

I have one girl in my family who was devastated after a mixed match when close relations started avoided her and stopped inviting her for any event .

more unhappiness might be there when parents unable to come to terms with it start behaving strangely

you have to steel yourself for this onslaught

if the man you have chosen does not buckle under the weight of the pressure being put on you and him , you will come out unscathed . but you need to be strong and

tough for it.

my children chose vadama iyers girl and telugu iyer boy .

I screened these entities and grandly celebrated their wedding with hotch potch rituals taking some from all their castes

but definitely get your marriage registered on marriage . it is an absolute must.good luck

 

[prasad1]

Well, let me also add to the pot pourri here...

Maash has not asked anybody for advise on whether to marry or not, rather, she has requested assistance as to how she might be able to garner her "traditional" parents' acceptance to this wedding. And hence the background.

My views:

If only ponool and madisars could make or mar a brahmin, it would have been much easy decision to make. Assuming that Maash has given her heart to this boy, and probably, any explanation is only an act to make up to the parents so as to assuage their feelings, the best points can be put forward, as in vegetarianism, discipline, clean habits, devotion (if applicable), apart from the lineage part.

Krishna of the Gita says that just as humans change clothes, the soul changes bodies. I say this lest somebody worry about madisar...

I congratulate you on bringing back the original question. The unasked for advice by older people is of no use to the question poser.

 

[sravna]

Namaskaram to all!

I need some suggestions to convince my mother and family without hurting them. Kindly help.


Regards
Maash

Dear Maash,

It shows your maturity that you are trying to find a balanced solution to the problem. So I assume that your love for the guy has a solid basis. That I think is a basis on which you can convince your mother.That is if a guy is loved in spite of a sense of barrier among castes by some one who displays maturity, then he should possess some really attractive qualities. You can highlight those qualities that attracted you to him and also put matters in the perspective of current times where inter caste marriage is no longer a taboo. I am sure if you put across the message in the right way your mother will be convinced.

Generally if you are arguing on solid grounds and no emotional aspects involved which earlier used to be the taboo, I think it is not really that difficult to convince people.

All the best

 

[Maash]

Thankyou!

Maash
I have no idea if it is mahapaavum to wear poonal just before wedding and remove after the wedding . I am a vaishnavite brahimn. this is exactly what I did

I never had a poonal ceremony . this was 35 years back . I did the same at my children s wedding . frankly most of my relatives felt sorry for me . and said paavum he

has to wear a thread to get /get his children married. lol . do not take all these rituals over seriously. the idea is to get married with minimum hurt to all around you.

I have a christian relative who had a homam for griha pravesam as per hindu custom wearing panchakacham .only his wife had to lend him her gothra for the function.

I might be your grandfathers age . i have both accumulated experience and many paavums I have committed for what I consider good causes. pl do not feel

unnecessarily guilty

only be sure you want the man you are marrying. there may be a lot of unpleasantness from close relations .you require a lot of inner strength and convictions to go

ahead and face upto them

I have one girl in my family who was devastated after a mixed match when close relations started avoided her and stopped inviting her for any event .

more unhappiness might be there when parents unable to come to terms with it start behaving strangely

you have to steel yourself for this onslaught

if the man you have chosen does not buckle under the weight of the pressure being put on you and him , you will come out unscathed . but you need to be strong and

tough for it.

my children chose vadama iyers girl and telugu iyer boy .

I screened these entities and grandly celebrated their wedding with hotch potch rituals taking some from all their castes

but definitely get your marriage registered on marriage . it is an absolute must.good luck

Thank you so much for the advice krish44. It really makes me feel better. I wish my parents were like you.

-Maash