Why are faithless countries the richest?

[tks]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

When I clicked the link this is what I got:

View attachment 3299

I looked closely and didn't find இட்லி or தோசை or மாவு. The only word that came close was இன்ட்லி. I don't know what that is, looks like a link to some social media site.

But, take a look at the prominent headline, ஸ்ரீராமருக்கே உதவிய ராம நாமம் - அரிய தகவல்.

What தகவல் is this? Rama recited his own name and that helped him get sita back!! This is the தகவல், that is அரிய தகவல், LOL!!!

I have no problem with meditation, it can calm one down and could have beneficial effects. "rama rama rama" is not the crucial element in meditation, it can be any phrase, or object. If rama rama rama is your preference, no problem. But to claim special powers to the "rama" like this அரிய தகவல் is just nonsense, that is all I wanted to convey.

Words have power - they tend to communicate a concept, meaning, meta-meaning, a family of items etc.
In civil society where mutual respect is a governing principle one cannot use a word in a disparaging or flippant manner if it means something *significant to the listener*. This has nothing to do with anyone's belief system.

There are words that over time have have extremely negative meanings for some people in certain places. Abiding by universal principle of mutual respect means we do not use those words and find other means to express our ideas.

Word Rama means nothing to one person and may even remind them of foolish beliefs. If a person says 'word Rama has no special powers' - that is not respectful in my view.

If however a person says 'word Rama has no special powers for me' , that is respectful because the listener may not choose to give a rat's ass to quote a colloquial American expression.

I have no comments about whatever is written on the website.

 

[vgane]

Even in the GCC, when you exit the airport in say Jeddah or Kuwait City, people silently accost you and inquire as to whether you'd like 'siddiq' delivered at your door. Colloquial for alcohol.. And the feasts they have during Ramadan, and the colossal food wastage is to be seen to be believed. The religion in the GCC is primarily money, faith is also nice to have (big money and faked faith is a deadly combo, is used as a stick to beat the rest of the world).

The main point is, the GCC guys didn't kill themselves when someone drew a cartoon somewhere. They didn't even condemn the act. 1000s of Indians killed themselves though. Caste killings, honor killings, fights between 'two communities' are all too commonplace in India and the country remains dirt poor as a result. Does spiritual wealth really enhance a person's material well-being?

I have been to many of the GCC countries...In Saudi Arabia we cannot build a Hindu Temple..There are instances that even pictures of Hindu Gods were confiscated from Hindus when you land in Riyadh..Also Hindu women are forced to wear the Burqa..There is no temple in Qatar too

Coming to other GCC countries too, they are all hard core Islamic..During Ramadan period you cannot have food openly...I hardly know any temple in UAE or Kuwait for example having a loud speaker for prayers...Also there are lots of permissions required before we can build a temple..The Rulers permission is a must which will not come easy

 

[krish44]

I am appealed that people keep talking about religion, as if they understand it.
Religion can mean different things to different people. Religion in my opinion is personal. Other use of religion in public is used for political purpose.
for more than 90% of people religion and humanity is synonymous. So what is the meaning of "less religion"? To me this blind faith in some mumbo jumbo called astrology is more religion than Temple visits. So this champion of anti-religion supporting this pseudo-Science is a farce.

If you fall pray to the misrepresented idea of religion then it is your own fault. Others may have positive opinion of religion as their definition os religion is based their own conviction.

I do not follow any organized religion, but my religion is my business, and your religion is your business.

i like the last line. religion is a private matter to be left to the individual

 

[sangom]

i like the last line. religion is a private matter to be left to the individual

Dear Shri krish44,

If religion was really treated as a private matter, say, like one's thought processes or secret, personal desires, etc., then there would have been no discussion here or anywhere else, for that matter, about religion. We don't discuss why a particular person like idli, dosa, gulabjamun, Rasagolla, etc., you see.

But religion has always had a group component or a non-personal component also. It is this externalized public facet of religious belief/s which are referred to as Religion/s today, in common parlance. And it is this externalized, group activities which are in question, and not the private beliefs of individuals. Unless a person completely abjures the group/externalized aspects of religion, I don't think he/she can rely on the argument advanced by Prasad and endorsed by you.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof sir,

I checked the 'idli.... ' thread again later and found out that P J sir has posted the link under discussion as interesting, later!

This created all the confusion. Anyway, I believe in Rama nAmA's powers and let me have my belief to myself. OK?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Shri krish44,

If religion was really treated as a private matter, say, like one's thought processes or secret, personal desires, etc., then there would have been no discussion here or anywhere else, for that matter, about religion. We don't discuss why a particular person like idli, dosa, gulabjamun, Rasagolla, etc., you see.

But religion has always had a group component or a non-personal component also. It is this externalized public facet of religious belief/s which are referred to as Religion/s today, in common parlance. And it is this externalized, group activities which are in question, and not the private beliefs of individuals. Unless a person completely abjures the group/externalized aspects of religion, I don't think he/she can rely on the argument advanced by Prasad and endorsed by you.

Dear Sir,

As Marx said, Religion is the Opium of the People. The rich can afford to indulge in pursuits such as religion, Rama Nama etc, but what about the critical mass of people? Will religion bring rice to their tables (or floors)? Atheism is no panacea, but agnostic and non-religious countries are the most forward. Even Israel, founded on Judaism and without a constitution, is moving more towards agnosticism. If you've ever been to the UK or any of the anglo-saxon countries, puritanical beliefs have largely been replaced by an emphasis on logic and rational thinking.

 

[tks]

Dear Prof sir,

I checked the 'idli.... ' thread again later and found out that P J sir has posted the link under discussion as interesting, later!

This created all the confusion. Anyway, I believe in Rama nAmA's powers and let me have my belief to myself. OK?

Mrs RR - You are way too nice You dont need anyone's permission for your beliefs...

Regardless of our own of roots of being an Indian if someone has lived for many years in western nation like USA and have proudly picked up many of their habits (e.g., connoisseur of booze, talking fashionably ill of Indian traditions) then your message has to be far more more direct to make an impact ...

Just tell him - "stop being disrespectful to my customs, many who believe like I do do not give a rat's ass for your illogical lectures, Professor Sir, Let us live and let live in mutual respect" and have a nice 'Laughing Out Loud' moment


I know you will not do that, I cannot do that for you but I tried ...LoL

Regards

 

[prasad1]

agnostic and non-religious countries

What a joke, obviously written by someone who is Dhritarashtra or Mandodari, (I am insulting intelligence of this mythological figures).

Would a non-believer be elected as head of state in these so called rich non-religious countries?

 

[Nara]

List of atheists in politics and law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sangom]

Dear Sir,

As Marx said, Religion is the Opium of the People. The rich can afford to indulge in pursuits such as religion, Rama Nama etc, but what about the critical mass of people? Will religion bring rice to their tables (or floors)? Atheism is no panacea, but agnostic and non-religious countries are the most forward. Even Israel, founded on Judaism and without a constitution, is moving more towards agnosticism. If you've ever been to the UK or any of the anglo-saxon countries, puritanical beliefs have largely been replaced by an emphasis on logic and rational thinking.

The root cause is the existential dilemma of Man. He has his body and the brains, learns many things, conquers nature to a large extent. But there are many many more things about which Man has no control, not even rudimentary knowledge. Man rebels against this helplessness of his and primitive Homo Sapiens "imagined" external powers which were superior to himself and controlled all those myriad things on which he seemed to have no grip at all. The primitive human mind invented a God who had limitless powers of presence, knowledge and capabilities.

Religions came to be erected around such gods; priesthood of one kind or the other pretended that it knows how to pull the strings of God, how to move the files in God's bureaucracy and get things done in favour of Man. These self-proclaimed middlemen became power centres much like the modern Quattrochi, Neera Radia, et al. Slowly some more enterprising con figures appeared and proclaimed that they combined in themselves the Master (god) and the middleman; some of these became very successful godmen, gurus, Babas and so on, while many died in lunatic asylums!

Modern man is still under the addiction of religion. But many today have also a very weighty "ego" which prevents them from looking into themselves and finding out how foolish they are. That is the reason for religion with its many manifestations including the Rama Nama syndrome etc., are still so vehemently defended.

My friend used to tell a story. One fellow was seriously injured in a car accident but narrowly escaped death. Another person came to visit him in hospital, the next day. Our injured person was completely wrapped up in plaster and bandages and only his left little finger was visible outside of the plaster and bandage. The visitor mentioned that despite all his so-called bhakti etc., why did god cause such a grievous accident. Our injured bhakta defended saying, "See, God has been kind enough to spare my left little finger so that I can signal to the nurse when I want to pass urine! Is not that great?"

His friend remarked, "Your God seems to be only half capable; why he could not save two fingers at the least?"

 

[vgane]

The OP assumes that India cannot become great with its inherent weakness for religion and caste...On the other hand, as per my POV, this spirituality is not a albatross but a key enabler for our achievements!

We have made significant progress in almost all the social parameters in the last 66 years since Independence which we could not have imagined then

It is not going to be some fiction when in the next 35 years India will become the global powerhouse beating both USA and China economically...

Despite all the diversity in religion, territory, language, India will gallop to the goal post with a India One message...Our young and vibrant population will be the key to our success

 

[ashwin_ash]

The OP assumes that India cannot become great with its inherent weakness for religion and caste...On the other hand, as per my POV, this spirituality is not a albatross but a key enabler for our achievements!

We have made significant progress in almost all the social parameters in the last 66 years since Independence which we could not have imagined then

It is not going to be some fiction when in the next 35 years India will become the global powerhouse beating both USA and China economically...

Despite all the diversity in religion, territory, language, India will gallop to the goal post with a India One message...Our young and vibrant population will be the key to our success

Success. True. #1 in rapes and homicides. #1 in thefts and robberies. #1 in unsanitary and unhygienic living conditions. #1 slum in the world, Dharavi. #1 in diseases of every kind. #1 in caste and religious hatred. #1 in 'arranged marriages'. #1.... I recently saw a commercial in an Indian channel featuring Aamir Khan which shows the 'ugly Indian'. Isn't every stereotype about India and Indians largely true?

 

[vgane]

Success. True. #1 in rapes and homicides. #1 in thefts and robberies. #1 in unsanitary and unhygienic living conditions. #1 slum in the world, Dharavi. #1 in diseases of every kind. #1 in caste and religious hatred. #1 in 'arranged marriages'. #1.... I recently saw a commercial in an Indian channel featuring Aamir Khan which shows the 'ugly Indian'. Isn't every stereotype about India and Indians largely true?

The reason for all that is the unbridled increase in population without corresponding increase in per capita

Let us look at China, and India between 1947 and now

In 1947, the average annual income in India was US$619, compared with US$439 for China


By 2012, the numbers were US$3876 India; US$9233 China;

Both the countries were caught in the vortex of socialism and communism initially...But China raised the investment rates higher than India

Later China removed the cobwebs of bureaucratic hurdles and removed the shackles for economic growth in the early 80's, while we were still caught up in the old socialist order till the early 90's when we tried to remove the inefficient policy frameworks that favored the public sector

The solution for our woes is to grow more

Let us look at Literacy...We were about 15% in 1947...Now it is about 73%

On other parameters such as infant mortality which is 44 per 1000 now was 146 in 1947

Life expectancy which was 37 years in 1947 is now about 65 years

So let us not unduly criticize India!

Also India is fairly a young country when compared to US

You will see spectacular progress in the next 40-50 years

 

[krish44]

The reason for all that is the unbridled increase in population without corresponding increase in per capita

Let us look at China, and India between 1947 and now

In 1947, the average annual income in India was US$619, compared with US$439 for China


By 2012, the numbers were US$3876 India; US$9233 China;

Both the countries were caught in the vortex of socialism and communism initially...But China raised the investment rates higher than India

Later China removed the cobwebs of bureaucratic hurdles and removed the shackles for economic growth in the early 80's, while we were still caught up in the old socialist order till the early 90's when we tried to remove the inefficient policy frameworks that favored the public sector

The solution for our woes is to grow more

Let us look at Literacy...We were about 15% in 1947...Now it is about 73%

On other parameters such as infant mortality which is 44 per 1000 now was 146 in 1947

Life expectancy which was 37 years in 1947 is now about 65 years

So let us not unduly criticize India!

Also India is fairly a young country when compared to US

You will see spectacular progress in the next 40-50 years

Vgane ji
This could be called the great Indian dream. -spectaculer progress in next 40-50 yrs. Why not . Indian youth will bring about the changes and create the conditions for high growth with caste religeous differences reducing.rich-poor divide narrowing, oppertunities for all.we may even see them in our life time.