Why I Am Not A Hindu ?- Book Review

[malgova.mango]

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brahmins didn't design society - they are just followers

if they design they would don the role of kshatriya rather than to go through a austere life-style demanded from them as a brahmins.

Bottom Line : - They being a followers they can't do away with VARNA system. They are powerless as they are also actors on stage.

The story, screen-play and the direction is by GOD.

So people eager to do away with Jaathi system - should really do TAPAS to seek his BOON.

PALINDROME!

You BETTER mind your words. I've no intention to hold discussions with you. don't meddle in between and poke your nose. If you want to do away with Jaathi system then please remember - even if you leave it , the other castes of dalits are in now mood to leave it.

Jaathi system give a sense of group identity , a security - and people can't simply do way with that. If this simple fact drains your mentor's emotional factor .... ask him to grow up.


SAPR33

try to give an direct and honest reply to my earlier question to you , firstly - then the door may open.

regards

 

[palindrome]

brahmins didn't design society - they are just followers

if they design they would don the role of kshatriya rather than to go through a austere life-style demanded from them as a brahmins.

Bottom Line : - They being a followers they can't do away with VARNA system. They are powerless as they are also actors on stage.

The story, screen-play and the direction is by GOD.

So people eager to do away with Jaathi system - should really do TAPAS to seek his BOON.

PALINDROME!

You BETTER mind your words. I've no intention to hold discussions with you. don't meddle in between and poke your nose. If you want to do away with Jaathi system then please remember - even if you leave it , the other castes of dalits are in now mood to leave it.

Jaathi system give a sense of group identity , a security - and people can't simply do way with that. If this simple fact drains your mentor's emotional factor .... ask him to grow up.

mm,

if you call someone a jalpavadin parrot, you should be prepared to hear yourself being called a parrot too...so you too please "better mind your words" when you say something like that...

so basically you agree that a brahmin is a follower and cannot change the design of the society.

and you also agree that "if they design they would don the role of kshatriya"....So a brahmin cannot don the role of a kshatriya and change the society, but a kshatriya can change a society (and get a brahmin to follow it). Alright. Then consider every hindu below the age of 35 as a kshatriya determined to make a free and fair society for all.

and someday i shall certainly invite you to a debate on this very forum on what the vedic texts say but what a pseudo-orthodox fundamentalist so-called brahmin like you ruined it to be.

 

[malgova.mango]

pali!

you have vegam - not vivekam.

I already had a duet with N on this issue... and put up my reasoning countering point to point ... So when he repeats the same I've to call that as Jalpa vadam .

You came in the middle without knowing head and tail of it...

Kshatriya also cannot change society - if it is not a brahmin design , how can it be kshatriya design ? Please stop , and think and read again.....

One cannot consider, all as kshatriya ... cruel joke.

free and fair society? ... ishvaro rakshatu.

this calling names and all is unwarranted charge of emotion.....cool.

 

[palindrome]

mm

pali!

you have vegam - not vivekam.

do you have vivekam?

I already had a duet with N on this issue... and put up my reasoning countering point to point ... So when he repeats the same I've to call that as Jalpa vadam .

you too are repetitive, so you too are doing jalpa vadam
(for that matter all of us are)

You came in the middle without knowing heand and tail of it...

its an open forum. you can ask to speak with someone on a closed blog if you do not want interjection.

Kshatriya also cannot change society - if it is not a brahmin design , how can it be kshatriya design ? Please stop and think.....

i have enuf reason to say what i am saying.

One cannot consider, all as kshatriya ... cruel joke.

all can be considered kshatriya. each of us has the qualities to be anyone we want to. each one of us has inherited the genetic blueprint of several jaathis we have lived before the current life.

free and fair society? ... ishvaro rakshatu.

ishvara is doing his work.

this calling names and all is unwarranted charge of emotion.....cool.

it is you that called someone as jalpavadin...then when someone else calls you the same thing you say its some charge of emotion. please learn to cool yourself.

 

[malgova.mango]

so be it.

 

[sapr333]

::addressed to Palindrome::

1)brahmins didn't design society - they are just followers

2) If you want to do away with Jaathi system then please remember - even if you leave it , the other castes of dalits are in now mood to leave it.
Jaathi system give a sense of group identity , a security - and people can't simply do way with that.


3) SAPR33
try to give an direct and honest reply to my earlier question to you
regards

Its very much true, every one wants to have a caste identity.. Its similar to Irish/Welch/Spanish/Blacks etc etc, and there is no harm in people getting identified by its roots. But the problem is, 4 tier strata, and claiming superiority over other, in the name (excuse rather) of Scriptures. Thats worrysome.

Im not sure whether Brahmins designed the varna or not. The key unrefutable point is, Brahmins stand top on the Varna, and still command a high status in terms of Spiritual/Social/Varna.In this context, every action taken by a Brahmin to eradicate caste will have 1000 times better impact than what a dalit could do, in this mission. Nothing elese..

Yes, If Brahmins may leave caste identity, still dalits could clinch to it.. But whats the use.... This identity is more or less comparative.. A dalit may compare with sudra and with baniya and then with Kshatriya.. And with whoom a Kshatriya could compare, in the absence of Brahmin... It percolates down, and dies soon, cos it eventually lacks the final authority to bench mark him, cos the TOP has already discarded it

In my view, all these things may not help much..Like White-Man's Guilt, we should cultivate withing outselves a guilt, for oppressed others in the past. It applies to all castes. For that, we all should understand, the basic core Hindu doctrine "I-Myself-God, ie, God is within me and god is in dalits body too...And hence every human entitiled to have the basic human dignity, and all are equal by birth... These kind of teaches should be stronly proclaimed and propagated, with the missionary zeal.

MALGOVA, Im not sure which post of yours is missed by me.. Is that 10 tumbler system.. Could you pls give me the post # thanks

 

[sapr333]

SAPR333>>>>>>As I said earlier, if Christian sect Mormon religion advocates Polygamy or another religion advocates reward of 72 virgins for a terrorist, or another Kallar God promotes 'Roberry', these things could be easily rejected with our own common sense.This could be a wrong ideology/doctrine/philosophy.

Palindrome responds>>>>Who should reject it? The mormons, the muslims, the kallars? And who are you to decide it for them? How do you know its a wrong doctrine / ideology? Are you sure that after you died you did not see 72 virgins? If you did not see, if you can prove it those houries do not exist, then alright i can reject it. If you can neither prove nor disprove anything, then how can anyone "reject" it without knowing if it exists or not?

Its an interesting analogy. Let me put the same question in a contrary way..

What stops you from accepting Christian Mormon's polygamy, Islamic terrorist 72 Houries or Kallars' 'Stealing God'?

Imagine, if your child comes out with an idea of following one of the above 3 doctrines,what are the points you would convincingly list out?

PSlease dont say, Im content with what Im following ! / I respect their view, cos they may also hold some truth, which we couldnt figure it out...

 

[malgova.mango]

no - where you said point's taken.....

Superior and Inferior are projected based on discipline, exercised by the Family....

There is a Nandanar, Neelakandar etc.....

We can't place people with lack of discipline as superior and follow them - by doing that nobody can progress. it is a disaster.

So for the progress of every one - superior and inferior should be there and it should be based on the discipline.

if it is based on money - the society will detoriate , without any good morals to emulate.

All are equal - is correct in one sense , but there is difference in everybody equally holds true.

 

[palindrome]

Its an interesting analogy. Let me put the same question in a contrary way..

What stops you from accepting Christian Mormon's polygamy, Islamic terrorist 72 Houries or Kallars' 'Stealing God'?

Imagine, if your child comes out with an idea of following one of the above 3 doctrines,what are the points you would convincingly list out?

PSlease dont say, Im content with what Im following ! / I respect their view, cos they may also hold some truth, which we couldnt figure it out...

nothing is stoping me from accepting or rejecting anything completely..

if my child comes out with this idea, i wud ask:

1) 72 houries: how do you know there are 72 houries waiting for a martyr upon his death? has someone seen them and then told you? if he did see, then are you sure he was not hallucinating when he saw that? wud you not prefer to see it for yourself before you decide?

2) polygamy: am not in favor of holding pent up deisres. so wud tell him / her: make sure you hurt nobody in the process, make sure you do not feel emotionally empty or cheated with your own emotions later.

3) kallar god: its not god's fault kallars decided to offer their booty to him. even if one can convince a kallar that god did not ask you to do this...yet, wud he leave it? so, in such cases if one cannot change them, then leave them alone...they too will be gone with time. just protect yourself...just like you cannot stop a tiger from hunting but you can protect yourself.

 

[sapr333]

no - where you said point's taken.....

Superior and Inferior are projected based on discipline, exercised by the Family....There is a Nandanar, Neelakandar etc.....

We can't place people with lack of discipline as superior and follow them - by doing that nobody can progress. it is a disaster..

.

Nandanar, Neelakandar,lets add Valmiki too... Its all millenia old examples..

In this day of 21st century & out of 850Mn hindus, still If we couldnt find a single dalit to be in line with Nandanar, then , this logic of fixing 'discipline/guna' to become an eligible brahmin sounds farce, or illusion.Possibly, the definition of that kind of 'GUNA' needs to be evaluated.

Hope you know the story of the ever closed 'Nandanar Gate' in Natarajar Temple. They said proudly in TV "Nandhanarukke Kadhavai saathinoom!!"..

 

[malgova.mango]

first you answer my first question. then we go one by one. inch by inch or else we can't arrive at any thing.

you'll repeat what you'll say or you'll deviate the issue. so rule no.1 one by one. reply to my question directly and with all honesty

 

[malgova.mango]

and stop answering to all others . that'll keep both of us focussed.

 

[sapr333]

if my child comes out with this idea, i wud ask:

1) 72 houries: how do you know there are 72 houries waiting for a martyr upon his death? has someone seen them and then told you? if he did see, then are you sure he was not hallucinating when he saw that? wud you not prefer to see it for yourself before you decide?
.

Now, imagine if your child bounces back and say....

You also havent seen reincarnation..You dont know any thing about what you were, in your previous birth, but you believe in it ..You havent seen God too, but still you believe him.

Similarly, I havent seen houries, but my faith tells me , I'll get 72 houries upon my sacrifice with RDX in belt. You be with your faith, and myself be with my own new found faith. Dad,when I was young, you only taught me that " all God/Religons are same and we are accomodative and let them be the way they are' !!!!

Palindrome, what would be your response, to that child?

 

[sapr333]

first you answer my first question. then we go one by one. inch by inch or else we can't arrive at any thing.

you'll repeat what you'll say or you'll deviate the issue. so rule no.1 one by one. reply to my question directly and with all honesty

Could you please post the Sl.No of your first post, which you want me to respond.

btw, Trust me, Im not here to win arguments/ trool around.. I'm a seeker of 'Truth about God' and would love to debate there by enhance the knowledge about God. Thats all..

I dont intentionally deviate any topic... Too many posts, the core subject gets lost on track, many a times.. Pls remind me, if I got deviated.

 

[sapr333]

and stop answering to all others . that'll keep both of us focussed.

I just cant do that, cos, there many other smart & intellectual people are posting messages in this thread and I need to respect them too.

 

[palindrome]

Now, imagine if your child bounces back and say....

You also havent seen reincarnation..You dont know any thing about what you were, in your previous birth, but you believe in it ..You havent seen God too, but still you believe him.

Similarly, I havent seen houries, but my faith tells me , I'll get 72 houries upon my sacrifice with RDX in belt. You be with your faith, and myself be with my own new found faith. Dad,when I was young, you only taught me that " all God/Religons are same and we are accomodative and let them be the way they are' !!!!

Palindrome, what would be your response, to that child?

i wud send my child to a psychiatrist / clinical psycologist trained in past life regression to see for herself / himself, whether past life exists or not...i am certain i have lived before my current birth..

you may wish to follow this link: http://www.pastlives.com/

From: http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/DoubleBirthmarks/id/35277

The case of Titu Singh that appeared in the London-based magazine Reincarnation International is one of the more fascinating cases of double birthmarks. This story was first broadcast in 1990 on the BBC TV news program "Forty Minutes." The case of Titu who named names and details of his own murder made for exciting [COLOR=blue ! important][COLOR=blue ! important]TV[/COLOR][/COLOR] drama. By the way, the resemblance to the case of Ravi Shankar is not surprising because cases of murdered victims returning in a new body to haunt their murderers is not an uncommon theme in these past life cases.

i have not seen god, alright...but i not seen air either, but i feel air blow. i feel god exists...beyond this, i can only explain in a closed conversation. not on an open forum.

if you saw 72 houries in your regressive memories, good for you...lemme know if you did, then i will also beleive 72 houries exist.

 

[sapr333]

Palindrome>>i wud send my child to a psychiatrist / clinical psycologist trained in past life regression to see for herself / himself, whether past life exists or not...i am certain i have lived before my current birth.

>>>.lemme know if you did, then i will also beleive 72 houries exist...

Palindrome, this argument has gone to a stalemate. Let me sum it up.

You want your child to believe what you felt it as true, but there is no convincing answer from you to the child. Both believed in what they felt like.. You also couldnt show what your past-life-fact is all about, so is the case with 72 houries.

But, you wish to take the child to a Psychiatrist/past life expert, cos,somewhere down the line , deep within, you indirectly could not accept (rather not reject) the 72 houries idea.

At the moment, Im not placing my arguments to prove/disprove the past life.. I was only trying to drive the point, that, all doctrines are not right, and there are something we feel to reject outright/ or not able to accept, for which the reasons we couldnt explain..However, there are many advanced debates, which rejects certain doctrine based on certain hypothesis/premise with a set of moral foundations..

Will present few of them in the forthcoming posts.

PS: I havent read that links about past life, cos I felt that, we are not debating on that life.

 

[palindrome]

Palindrome>>i wud send my child to a psychiatrist / clinical psycologist trained in past life regression to see for herself / himself, whether past life exists or not...i am certain i have lived before my current birth.

>>>.lemme know if you did, then i will also beleive 72 houries exist...

Palindrome, this argument has gone to a stalemate. Let me sum it up.

You want your child to believe what you felt it as true, but there is no convincing answer from you to the child. Both believed in what they felt like.. You also couldnt show what your past-life-fact is all about, so is the case with 72 houries.

But, you wish to take the child to a Psychiatrist/past life expert, cos,somewhere down the line , deep within, you indirectly could not accept (rather not reject) the 72 houries idea.

At the moment, Im not placing my arguments to prove/disprove the past life.. I was only trying to drive the point, that, all doctrines are not right, and there are something we feel to reject outright/ or not able to accept, for which the reasons we couldnt explain..However, there are many advanced debates, which rejects certain doctrine based on certain hypothesis/premise with a set of moral foundations..

Will present few of them in the forthcoming posts.

PS: I havent read that links about past life, cos I felt that, we are not debating on that life.

Am sorry was not clear i suppose....

i cannot make my child beleive something just bcoz i thot it to be correct...i think this part can be spoken abt only if you have tried regression sessions to know what it is about and how it works..since even if i cud explain, i do not think you will be able to get the picture of what am trying to say...

I do not understand this:
"You also couldnt show what your past-life-fact is all about, so is the case with 72 houries."

I did not say i rejected the 72 houries entirely....that's why i asked you in a post before "how can you reject something when you do not know if something exists or not in the first place" ...i can only say i know of nobody who has seen any houries in regressive sessions...the reason mayb because i do not know of any muslim who had undergone a regressive session...

 

[sapr333]

Palindrome, this could be my response to Reject 72 Houries doctine.. And that would have been my response to the child, instead of taking to a psychiatrist.



1) Violence is beyond reasons. And 'God of Absoute Justice' may not expect to reward a RDX suicide bomber with heaven. So if an ideology promotes Violence, then its not of Gods nature, and hence it cannot be a true doctrine of God..

2) And definitely not 72 Houries, cos heaven/God are widely believed to be beyond worldly matters, in all religions.. Hence this ideology could be wrong.

3) All powerful God, can punish and kill those who abuse HIM... And that All Powerful God, doesnt need his own creation " A terrorist man' to protect him... If God needs man to protect him, then he is not 'True God'.

These are just my own thought, but if I could dig out some of the philosophers debate, it would be lot more interesting...

 

[palindrome]

hmmmm...

1) Violence is yes beyond reason. It happens when reasoning fails. God made the terrorist too. Its not for me to judge any doctrine of god based on acts of individuals alone. Therefore, i do not know if God is of "absolute justice".

2) 72 Houries: i do not know if this idealogy cud be wrong. i have stated my reasons.

3) I do not know if God is all powerful or if God punishes. Why should God punish his own creation? Is god a tyrant? a dicator? who seeks so-called "absolute" command? wudn't that make god a sycophant?

 

[sapr333]

A.that's why i asked you in a post before "how can you reject something when you do not know if something exists or not in the first place" ......

There are many a things we cannot find anwer or proof by by physical /Visual/measurable quantities.. But Philosophy/Metaphysics/logical reasoning somehow could be able to find answers.

Cos, I were to consider your statementgic & Lo, then, we both would be rejecting GOD, cos we both have not seen God. But there are people/scholars, who really attempted philosophically to define God...Having said that, equal amount of people worked in the oppositeway too.. But, so far, none of philosophers could prove 'That God Does not exist"..

 

[palindrome]

There are many a things we cannot find anwer or proof by by physical /Visual/measurable quantities.. But Philosophy/Metaphysics/logical reasoning somehow could be able to find answers.

Cos, I were to consider your statementgic & Lo, then, we both would be rejecting GOD, cos we both have not seen God. But there are people/scholars, who really attempted philosophically to define God...Having said that, equal amount of people worked in the oppositeway too.. But, so far, none of philosophers could prove 'That God Does not exist"..

reg trying to find answers, this is what is was saying all along

i said i feel god, so am not sure how can you consider my statement as rejecting god just because i did not see god.

lemme try and see if tehre there any philosophies that totally proove god does not exist, i can think of only the charvaka school for now...

 

[sapr333]

reg trying to find answers, this is what is was saying all along

i said i feel god, so am not sure how can you consider my statement as rejecting god just because i did not see god.

lemme try and see if tehre there any philosophies that totally proove god does not exist, i can think of only the charvaka school for now...

You can say you are feeling God, and yet another person could say he is feelin 'Satan' or Evil or Bad karma, etc etc.. The sense of individual feeling doesnt appeal convincing to other..Rather, we should explain/jot/document that feeling, so that others would also accept it...But its indeed a difficult job..

The analogy of Semen-Orgasm-Pleasure given by Adi Shankara was indeed impressive. He could script it... Unfortuanately, when I asked an answer to your kid about 72 houries, you couldnt script it, rather, you wanted to resort to a Psychiatrist doc...Thats the difference..

Regarding Charvaka, I would appreciate if you could share me some link (let it be crispy, not some 1000 pages pls).. I have earlier read about it, but then It didnt impress me much..may be, I had a mind set over wester philosophy... Let me give it a try.... I think the modern thinkers like Nietsche/Betrand Russel would suffice.. Im not impressed with modern day Richard Dawkins (author of God Delusions), cos I felt, it was a bit more like a commercial page3 novel, just like Kancha Ilaiah/Dan Brown (Da Vinci Code)

 

[palindrome]

You can say you are feeling God, and yet another person could say he is feelin 'Satan' or Evil or Bad karma, etc etc.. The sense of individual feeling doesnt appeal convincing to other..Rather, we should explain/jot/document that feeling, so that others would also accept it...But its indeed a difficult job..

The analogy of Semen-Orgasm-Pleasure given by Adi Shankara was indeed impressive. He could script it... Unfortuanately, when I asked an answer to your kid about 72 houries, you couldnt script it, rather, you wanted to resort to a Psychiatrist doc...Thats the difference..

Regarding Charvaka, I would appreciate if you could share me some link (let it be crispy, not some 1000 pages pls).. I have earlier read about it, but then It didnt impress me much..may be, I had a mind set over wester philosophy... Let me give it a try.... I think the modern thinkers like Nietsche/Betrand Russel would suffice.. Im not impressed with modern day Richard Dawkins (author of God Delusions), cos I felt, it was a bit more like a commercial page3 novel, just like Kancha Ilaiah/Dan Brown (Da Vinci Code)

i can only say i feel god exists..that a creator exists...as energy..

wht do you think i shd feel abt 72 houries....i can only merely say i do not know if it exists or not, so can i reject something without knowing its existence..

reg charvaka..some online links:

1) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3440/charvaka.html

2) http://www.hinduwebsite.com/history/athiesm.asp

3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cārvāka

ps: am getting sorta tired of the 72 houries, kallar god and polygamy..are these the only yardsticks you wish to measure any "morality" on ?

 

[palindrome]

if you like the science of beleif, then you will certainly like Why God won't go away: Brain Science and Biology of Beleif and God Gene (its abt why faith is hardwired and possibly the reason why some ppl cannot think alike)

Please do not miss God Gene.

this is also a nice lead to explore: http://www.brucelipton.com/