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Why is God portrayed as a Narcissists?

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Dear Renu,

If you go on arguing like this, the following Qs will also crop up!

Why do we make 'neivEdhyam' for God? Did He ask for it?

Why do we go to temple? Does God really stay in the statue?

Why do the 'pujAris' decorate God? Did God ask for it?

Who do people sing 'bhajans'? Did God ask for it?

Why do bhakthAs give hair as 'kANikkai'? Did God ask them to shave their heads?

Why is 'abhishEkam' performed? Did God ask for it? (at least all that honey, milk and fruits could be donated to the poor!)
Such questions will be endless, Renu! :bump2:


You often say 'live and let live' is your principle. So you don't have to praise God, if your logic denies it!
And........ Let others praise, pray, go to temple, decorate and donate to God! :peace:
 
Onion does not have anything inside, Sangom Sir!

But eating onions is supposed to strengthen the immune system in humans! :thumb:
 
Dear Renu,

If you go on arguing like this, the following Qs will also crop up!

Why do we make 'neivEdhyam' for God? Did He ask for it?

Why do we go to temple? Does God really stay in the statue?

Why do the 'pujAris' decorate God? Did God ask for it?

Who do people sing 'bhajans'? Did God ask for it?

Why do bhakthAs give hair as 'kANikkai'? Did God ask them to shave their heads?

Why is 'abhishEkam' performed? Did God ask for it? (at least all that honey, milk and fruits could be donated to the poor!)
Such questions will be endless, Renu! :bump2:


You often say 'live and let live' is your principle. So you don't have to praise God, if your logic denies it!
And........ Let others praise, pray, go to temple, decorate and donate to God! :peace:
five star for last last two lines
do not have to praise God if your logic denies it
let others praise,pray ,go to temple ,decorate and donate to God

there is akshya tritiya tomorrow

any visit to temples or gold shops planned?

I believe , it is parasuramas birthday and also vedvyasa started writing mahabharatha this day

we can start 21century mahabharatha tomorrow . ...
 
New matham is under srishty here. God is insulted if praised; conversely god is praised if insulted. I am sure some pramanas are available for proving the sacred premises!
Azhwars and nayanmars will be heartbroken for not realizing this simple truth and may wish they had born in 2014 for quick and easy enlightenment.

Sir,
Well said.
 
I don't believe in 'blind luck' (குருட்டு அதிருஷ்டம்); so no gold shopping! :peace:

Only visit to nearby temple, which is long overdue! :pray:
 
Dear RR ji,

My answers in black.



God is NOT praised for personal gains! He is praised for his greatness He is supposed to have!

Really? Let take a vote..how many people actually praise God for His Greatness and not hoping for personal gain.

.

Gods and Goddesses are described by poets just as they are imagined by their creator!

For example, Krishna and Rama are not praised as a fair skinned Gods or Goddess Kali as having timid looks!


Dear RR ji..skin color has nothing to do with beauty..you make it sound as if only fair is beautiful.



Some people will pray God ONLY if they have the hope of getting some gains. So this is a way to make such people pray!

But isnt better we pray for God's sake right from the start? Why isnt that ever emphasized?



We praise our children to get their love and not for any material gains. Who will not wish to be loved by God!

What?? I never praise my son to get his love..thats like bribing someone with praise to get love....I give my son the freedom even to not love me as along I love him..if we truly love a person we need not praise them to gain their love.

Who can answer this except God Himself??! :lol:

Yes..God only knows.


No one says that God asked humans to praise HIM! It is only our wish and done for our satisfaction!

Yes..its for our satisfaction that we praise God.



Oh Renu! You are totally confused!!



A worthwhile confusion cos see how active this thread is??LOL
 
Dear RR ji,

answers in black



Dear Renu,

If you go on arguing like this, the following Qs will also crop up!

Why do we make 'neivEdhyam' for God? Did He ask for it?


I have never made Neivedhiyam cos I feel I can never actually give God something that I created..everything is His ..all raw material is Gods.

Why do we go to temple? Does God really stay in the statue?

Brahman is everything including animate and inanimate objects..so there is nothing outside of Brahman.

Why do the 'pujAris' decorate God? Did God ask for it?

This you have to ask the Pujaris!LOL

Who do people sing 'bhajans'? Did God ask for it?

We sing for ourselves..and to display our Carnatic Vocal skils!LOL ha ha ha

Why do bhakthAs give hair as 'kANikkai'? Did God ask them to shave their heads?

Bhaktas give their hair cos they know it will grow back..no one amputates their limbs or behead themselves..if we tell them to amputate their limbs that time they will surely say "Hey No! God did not ask me to do that!"

Why is 'abhishEkam' performed? Did God ask for it? (at least all that honey, milk and fruits could be donated to the poor!)

I dont believe in abhishekam cos I rather give the poor and needy food.sometimes I see acute wastage of food.If one wishes to do an abhishekam they can just use a little instead of over doing anything.
Such questions will be endless, Renu! :bump2:


You often say 'live and let live' is your principle. So you don't have to praise God, if your logic denies it!
And........ Let others praise, pray, go to temple, decorate and donate to God!


I did not stop anyone..I started this thread for a discussion.
:peace:
 
Are you acting as a pro bono publico advocate for God, defending him against others tarnishing his image by praising Him for personal gain?!


There was a movie called The Devil's Advocate..so looks as if now we need to have a new movie 'God's advocate'!LOL
 
I feel many have not understood my OP. I am not finding fault with any mode of prayer but I wanted to just discuss that praising God is technically our own perception that praise needs to be carried out in order for prayer to be effective..that shows that we might not be "confident" enough with our own selves that without praise prayer is not legitimate and might go unanswered.

That "lack of confidence" in ourselves makes us want to believe that God has to be praised in order for Him to hear out our prayers of any kind.

So all my questions are actually self introspection and nothing more or less..I know it might actually feel that I am breaking the very foundation of bhakti but that is not my intention.

I am NOT stopping anyone to pray how they want too...its just that sometime self introspection makes us understand our own selves better after all so called 'spirituality" is all about understanding our selves.

So I hope members don't think I am finding fault with prayers or worship.

All sorts of feedback are welcomed.

BTW after many years of analyzing modes of prayer I feel finally only Silence is actual Prayer.
 
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Praising God is your own perception - rv

I feel many have not understood my OP. I am not finding fault with any mode of prayer but I wanted to just discuss that praising God is technically our own perception that praise needs to be carried out in order for prayer to be effective.

Dear Renu Ji,

Whatever you say i agree but what we are following some conventions that had been done centuries before...Here bakthi movement came into existence after Azhwar and Nayanmars. You asked if god asked to amputate one of your organs will you do? ...There was one kannappa nayanar who amputated his eye for god, there was one porkai pandian who amputated his hand, there was one dhathichi rishi who gave his life by sacrificing his spinal cord that became the thunder bolt of Indra to kill Asura vruddha.There are lot of examples.Only now a days we are not praying with this fervor. Whatever thing which seems foolish to you may have some science behind it. Unfortunately now a days we don't learn from our elders.

Abishekam is not waste since you can't feed all poor people ...only god can
Kallil ulla theraikkum unavu vazhankum iraivan...if you say god is every where , why should not we respect the god in vigraha..western people are wasting billions and trillons of money on use less research and studies...No body is bothered to ask such questions to them...but for making some abishekham which is not going to cost more than 1000 you are saying you can feed poor people

You said you never ask for love with favour..did you not celebrate your son's birthday or have you never told to your son some good words like "KANNA" or "HONEY" or "KOZHANTHE" ..kindly do this..it is not for asking favour..it is our way of addressing God...here in hinduism god not only is praised..there is one NINDHA STUTI which actually is abuse on God but in a mockery way of worshipping..there is no restriction to the type of worship you make to God..it depends on one's perception rather than some strict ritual.
 
going to cost more than 1000 you are saying you can feed poor people

You said you never ask for love with favour..did you not celebrate your son's birthday or have you never told to your son some good words like "KANNA" or "HONEY" or "KOZHANTHE" ..kindly do this...


Dear Vaithehi,

I celebrate my son's Bday etc becos I love him and not becos I want to gain love from him...as I said earlier I give him the freedom to even dislike me as long I love him.

When I love anyone I love them fully but at the same time I can totally disconnect my feelings if I want to without feeling destablized.

This ability to disconnect can come across as cold to some but its actually a good mindset to have cos that makes us resilient to face any situation in life.

BTW Vaithehi I would appreciate it if you could kindly refrain from saying lines like this..you wrote:
Whatever thing which seems foolish to you may have some science behind it.


Vaithehi... Foolish is one word that I never use cos that is rude,.even in religious text the word Foolish/Fools are used very often which I am not too fond of cos that sounds very judgmental.


In this whole thread I have not used to word Foolish at all. I consider myself a very ordinary person with special interest in religion and exploring every aspect of it including the role of the human mind and its hidden secrets that influence the evolution of the concept of God.

I am repeating myself yet again that disagreeing or questioning anything does not mean we think others are foolish.


 
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R R: God is NOT praised for personal gains! He is praised for his greatness He is supposed to have!

Renu: Really? Let take a vote..how many people actually praise God for His Greatness and not hoping for personal gain.
I am talking about the composers of slOkams and bhajans and not normal humans!

R R: Gods and Goddesses are described by poets just as they are imagined by their creator!

For example, Krishna and Rama are not praised as a fair skinned Gods or Goddess Kali as having timid looks!

Renu: Dear RR ji..skin color has nothing to do with beauty..you make it sound as if only fair is beautiful.
Dear Renu, I never said black is NOT beautiful. Those Gods and Goddess are black beauties! :thumb:

R R Some people will pray God ONLY if they have the hope of getting some gains. So this is a way to make such people pray!

Renu: But isnt better we pray for God's sake right from the start? Why isnt that ever emphasized?
Can we pray, 'Oh, God! You are great but I don't want anything from you!'?

R R: We praise our children to get their love and not for any material gains. Who will not wish to be loved by God!

Renu: What?? I never praise my son to get his love..thats like bribing someone with praise to get love....I give my son the freedom even to not love me as along I love him..if we truly love a person we need not praise them to gain their love.
What is this Renu?? You gave a smart idea how to get work done by the lazy hubby, very recently!
icon3.png


R R: Who can answer this except God Himself??! :lol:

Renu: Yes..God only knows.
Glad that you agreed once! :cool:

R R: No one says that God asked humans to praise HIM! It is only our wish and done for our satisfaction!

Renu:Yes..its for our satisfaction that we praise God.
Good! Agreed once more! :clap2:

R R: Oh Renu! You are totally confused!!

Renu: A worthwhile confusion cos see how active this thread is??LOL
See Renu, So many of us are worried about you!! :D
 
I have never made Neivedhiyam cos I feel I can never actually give God something that I created..everything is His ..all raw material is Gods.
Coolest way to escape from work!!

Brahman is everything including animate and inanimate objects..so there is nothing outside of Brahman.
This is high level thinking for people like you! :thumb:

Why do the 'pujAris' decorate God? Did God ask for it?

This you have to ask the Pujaris!LOL

Who do people sing 'bhajans'? Did God ask for it?

We sing for ourselves..and to display our Carnatic Vocal skils!LOL ha ha ha

Why do bhakthAs give hair as 'kANikkai'? Did God ask them to shave their heads?

Bhaktas give their hair cos they know it will grow back..no one amputates their limbs or behead themselves..if we tell them to amputate their limbs that time they will surely say "Hey No! God did not ask me to do that!"

Why is 'abhishEkam' performed? Did God ask for it? (at least all that honey, milk and fruits could be donated to the poor!)

I dont believe in abhishekam cos I rather give the poor and needy food.sometimes I see acute wastage of food.If one wishes to do an abhishekam they can just use a little instead of over doing anything.
Most of the atheists answer like this! I am sorry to say this, Renu! :(

R R: Such questions will be endless, Renu!

You often say 'live and let live' is your principle. So you don't have to praise God, if your logic denies it!
And........ Let others praise, pray, go to temple, decorate and donate to God!

Renu: I did not stop anyone..I started this thread for a discussion
Oh! Then the discussion will be endless too! :blah:
 
Gentle ladies
It was like a ladies club meeting . I do not know if God was listening to you all . GOK'

I had a nice nap and woke up to find out the ending .

Many times I do this in matinee movies.also I have also done this in many meetings in office when there are endless meetings and at the end of it all agree to disagree and break for lunch on the house .
 
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Dear Renu,

Hair adds beauty to humans and taken care of by everyone because it has value only till it is on the scalp!

BhakthAs give hair as 'kANikkai' because they are marring their beauty for a few days, like a punishment.

Usually, giving a tonsure to children before they are one year old is a custom in many tambram families.

May be, it is a way to ward off evil eyes! :)
 
I feel many have not understood my OP. I am not finding fault with any mode of prayer but I wanted to just discuss that praising God is technically our own perception that praise needs to be carried out in order for prayer to be effective..that shows that we might not be "confident" enough with our own selves that without praise prayer is not legitimate and might go unanswered.

That "lack of confidence" in ourselves makes us want to believe that God has to be praised in order for Him to hear out our prayers of any kind.

So all my questions are actually self introspection and nothing more or less..I know it might actually feel that I am breaking the very foundation of bhakti but that is not my intention.

I am NOT stopping anyone to pray how they want too...its just that sometime self introspection makes us understand our own selves better after all so called 'spirituality" is all about understanding our selves.

So I hope members don't think I am finding fault with prayers or worship.

All sorts of feedback are welcomed.

BTW after many years of analyzing modes of prayer I feel finally only Silence is actual Prayer.

Dr Renu -

Your intentions are most honorable and you have not tried to put any practice down. You were just expressing doubt why so many of our slokas and prayers seem to amplify the might and power of the deity being worshipped. Most of such prayers also tend to describe the benefit of such prayers at the end as part of the prayer.

The only point I disagree with is your interpretation that these are 'praises' in the eyes of everyone and in interpreting motivations of those people that may be reciting the so called 'praises'.

I am sure there are many 'devotees' that may fit your description in terms of their motivations. However there are many that may not. Every person approaches his or her personal deity in however they way they want - so why even think about that if they are not causing harm to others.

If on the other hand the introspection is about why there are these 'praises' , that interpretation that it is a praise is only arising in the mind of some people and you.

If God is described by definition as almighty then any description of power could apply to him/her/it and that need not be viewed as a praise except as expression of a devotee's love to that Almighty. That is not how I may approach but I can understand what may have motivated the author of a sloka to write the way they did.

Rituals or traditions that appeal to someone is very much dependent on a person. Even doing something silently is also a ritual. There is nothing superior or inferior about any of these practices.
 


In the primitive times, the stronger person subdued all those who were weaker than himself/herself (probably ;)) and this trend continues even today, basically, what with some G-8 or G-20 group of the more powerful nations of the world setting the terms of behaviour and also internal governance for all the less powerful countries. (Of course, those who lay down the rules are above the rules they so make - for others!)

Gods and religions were invented by the imaginative human mind/s so as to create cult-like belief systems among people; perhaps this was the first step of formation of groups of people or "societies". Naturally, the Gods had to be the most powerful and also the most superlative in each and every item which those primitive minds (which created the religions) could think of. (As an example, if Krishna had his BG boasting of Ch. X, he might most probably have said things like "I am Bill Gates among IT people" or that "I am Obama among national heads"!) Naturally therefore, a lot of boasting by our many gods had to be built in into our scriptures and prayers.

The gullible, unquestioning devotees are also happy that their god/s are supremely powerful and draw a lot of solace from that fact since such a god will definitely be able to prevent anything wrong happening to them. But the moment a person starts analyzing religion in a rational manner, religion becomes வெங்காயம் as the person whose name must not be mentioned in this forum, rightly said. There are layers and layers but ultimately "nothing"!


Views such as this about Chapter 10 verses have been around for a long time. How we see the world and such scriptures is a reflection of who we see ourselves to be inmy view.

B.Gita is probably one of the most scrutinized scripture in the world since it tries to teach and not preach. It has stood the test of time for the wisdom it has brought to people's lives. If we think there may be some merit in these verses let us see if an alternate explanation for the same set of verses make more sense.

In one set of verses Sri Krishna seem to suggest that Isvara pervades all beings (with other seemingly contradictory verses to follow). If Isvara pervades anything and everything then why call attention to few situations by saying "I am there where there is greatness".

If we are cynical we can say it is the concoction of those that want to control others by extolling enormous power to an Isvara as a way to control the gullible.

However there are many other excellent reasons. I will state only one of them here.

Human beings are uniquely endowed with the power to feel enviousness and jealousy. Very close human relations have gotten destroyed due to jealousy. Wars have been fought due to such feelings since humans tend to compare themselves to those they feel are their peers.

However if one has truly understood what the teachings of Chapter 10 their attitude would change.

Our tradition and values is about emphasizing excellence and not 'competition' which is only glorified in the west. If an artist sees another perform, either then can be overcome with jealousy or have a the wisdom to genuinely admire the work of fellow artists. This applies in all walks of life.

When we see greatness anywhere we are taught in Chapter 10 to see Isvara's Viboothi in that greatness.

If someone in my field excels in a phenomenal manner and even if I may feel a sense of natural competition I can freely admire the person's accomplishment since I will be seeing Isvara's Viboothi in that accomplishment.

Hence chapter 10 calls out all greatness in any field as Isvara's Viboothi.

This is but one explanation.

To illustrate Isvara's Viboothi in a work of art let me present this beautiful song in Latangi Raga by Ranjani & Gayathri ! The Niraval, Bhava, Bhakthi and precision are all Isvara's Viboothi - I hope you will listen to it with this perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPtGCC5gpFA
 
Not to worry, Krish Sir! I have given my views and have nothing more to share! :)
Sorry, only kidding . pl do not take it seriously . The posts are a bit over the head and I just could not comprehend and relate to it . We believe in high living and simplistic thinking .

God is only ummachi as taught by most mothers , we perform the simple rituals if forced on us . we also put our hands obediently over the aarathi fire and take prasadam and scoot .

we are woolly headed and do not think beyond. so do all poor and others not so well educated .
if we read motivations into every thing and asking whether we are praising God for ulterior motives etc is a bit of overdoing in my IMHO.

why we perform various rituals , well we hardly question . if it is not physically inconvenient or financially prohibitive , we might also observe them . we may also give up pretty easily , without thinking too much in case we go to live in liberal societies

forums like TB have lively discussions , explaining the rituals , questioning the beliefs, examining the evidence available in scriptures ,re interpreting them in the light of present day thinking and way of life . The debates are lively , acrimonius and even members accusing each other , emotionally carried away when basic beliefs get challenged .and how we have been following the path of God worship. At the endof it all , we perhaps be better individuals and knowing a little more about worship of God

I liked the contributions of TKS ji, the ladies trinity , naina ji
A big thanks to all
 
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Dear RR ji,

answers in black

I am talking about the composers of slOkams and bhajans and not normal humans!

They are normal RR ji..remember even the composer of Narananeeyam was too engrossed in sexual life with his wife before he suddenly became holy.



Can we pray, 'Oh, God! You are great but I don't want anything from you!'?


RR ji..to be frank I have stopped praying in an asking manner(not that I ever did much even when I used to pray).. cos I feel everything happens for a reason becos of our previous life Karma and God knows what is best for us..so asking anything is not going to change any scenario and I respect God enough not to ask Him for change and rather accept what my Karma has ordained for me.


What is this Renu?? You gave a smart idea how to get work done by the lazy hubby, very recently!
icon3.png


Well sometimes we dont practice what we preach!LOL

See Renu, So many of us are worried about you!! :D

Dont worry..I am fine.
 
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Dear Krish Sir,
As kids we were taught NOT to harm any living being because if we do so 'swami kaNNaik kuththum'! :fear:

When we grow as adults, this fear changes to bhakthi to one of the Deities.

My dad was a karma yOgi, a medical practitioner settled in a village and served the people for nearly four decades.

He is my role model in life. Try to help people as much as possible; believe that what ever happens is for good and IS

decided by the Almighty; don't ever think of doing harm to anyone; keep away from ALL the vices that the world shuns!

We can go in the righteous path in life, if we follow these simple rules. :thumb:
 
Dear RR ji,

Answers in black


Coolest way to escape from work!!

No its not being lazy even as child when my parents used to offer Neivedhyam I used to ask them why are we offering God what He created?


Most of the atheists answer like this! I am sorry to say this, Renu! :(

RR ji..I am no Atheist ..In fact some member here thinks I am God's advocate!LOL


Oh! Then the discussion will be endless too! :blah:

Yes..its blah blah blah..I am sure we females are expert in blah blah blah!LOL
 
Dear Renu,

Nice to have blah blah-ed to you in this thread (too :lol: )!
And thank for all your answers. Now nothing more to :argue: ........

Enjoy this poster!

there-are-three-side.jpg
 
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