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Why no Navagraha in Sri Vishnu Temples?

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1. Vaishnavites do not subscribe to the story of ayyappa's birth as narrated in some purana. So knowledgeable vaishnavites do not participate in ayyappa worship. Some vaishnavites do visit sabarimala to worship ayyappa too.

2. Sankarankoil temple is common for smarthas and vaishnavas. I belong to a place near Sankarankoil and we used to visit that temple for darshan during Aadi Thapas. I am a vaishnavite.

3. "But you should also see christians like Yesudoss go to Sabarimala with Irumudi!" Yes, true. But what does it prove? Nothing that matters here. Yesudas does not carry an idol of Ayyappa to his church and offer worship to that there.


But what does it prove? Nothing that matters here. Yesudas does not carry an idol of Ayyappa to his church and offer worship to that there.[/QUOTE]

Nothing except - Faith. Faith in Ayyappa or Navagraha is not regulated or conditioned by religion - Saivia Vaishnava and further subdivisions When you are in Rome be a Roman Do you really expect Jesudoss to carry the Cross instead of Irumudi If you enter Golden temple you have to cover your head If you visit temples in Kerala you wear Mundu
 
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There is a difference between Vaishnavas visiting navagraha Temples, and NO NAVAGRAHA IN VAISHNAVA TEMPLE!!!

OP is about the later!

True. But in a situation where the choice or possibility is one only either A or B and not A&B The point can estalished by arguing it is A or dsiproving B , hence it has to be A. Establishing A or why not B will be the same You should see as 2 sides of the same coin

Again Vaishnavas have to visit Navagraha temple if they have faith in them because No Navagraha in vaishnava Temples
 
Very few Vaishnavites are only visiting Navagraha Temples and majority of them follow Srivaishnava Sambradhayam of Worshiping Sri Vishnu for their woes.
 
But what does it prove? Nothing that matters here. Yesudas does not carry an idol of Ayyappa to his church and offer worship to that there.

Nothing except - Faith. Faith in Ayyappa or Navagraha is not regulated or conditioned by religion - Saivia Vaishnava and further subdivisions When you are in Rome be a Roman Do you really expect Jesudoss to carry the Cross instead of Irumudi If you enter Golden temple you have to cover your head If you visit temples in Kerala you wear Mundu[/QUOTE]

I do not get what is the argument here.

Faith in ayyappa and navagrahas are part of religious faith.

Vaishnavites do not have faith in navagrihas and so they do not worship them. There are ofcourse exceptions and exceptions are just exceptions and notm rule. This is the reason why there are no navagraha sannidhi in Vishnu temples. This is because vaishnavites are monotheists--one god principle.

Other hindus have navagriha sannidhies in their temples because they have faith in navagrihas besides their faith in other deities there. It is polytheism-multiple gods worship.

The singer's name is not Jesudass. It is K.J.Yesudass.

Dass might have carried a cross kept along with the coconut in his irumudi if he had faith in Jesus and Ayyappa at the same time. He can not forget his Jesus nor his ayyappa just as some hindus cannot forget any of the multiple gods-Siva, subramanya, Ganesh, ayyappa, Narayana, Krishna, Rama etc., etc.,
 
1. Vaishnavites do not subscribe to the story of ayyappa's birth as narrated in some purana. So knowledgeable vaishnavites do not participate in ayyappa worship. Some vaishnavites do visit sabarimala to worship ayyappa too.

2. Sankarankoil temple is common for smarthas and vaishnavas. I belong to a place near Sankarankoil and we used to visit that temple for darshan during Aadi Thapas. I am a vaishnavite.

3. "But you should also see christians like Yesudoss go to Sabarimala with Irumudi!" Yes, true. But what does it prove? Nothing that matters here. Yesudas does not carry an idol of Ayyappa to his church and offer worship to that there.

Vaishnavites do not subscribe to the story of ayyappa's birth as narrated in some purana. So knowledgeable vaishnavites do not participate in ayyappa worship. Some vaishnavites do visit sabarimala to worship ayyappa too.

I am a bit uncomfortable with this. Knowledgeable donot participate in Ayyappa worship. OK But then What about some who worship Ayyappa - not knowledgeable or ignorant?

Sankarankoil temple is common to both. Vashinava are monotheist (Post 204). Is 2 in 1 acceptable where Hari is united with Haran anatomically to the knowldgreable?

I stand corrected regarding the name of the singer
 
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Very few Vaishnavites are only visiting Navagraha Temples and majority of them follow Srivaishnava Sambradhayam of Worshiping Sri Vishnu for their woes.

True They worship Vishnu for their woes but not Vishnu only. They also worship Navagrahas specially Saneeswarn to ward off the seven and Half effect! I can see that on Sanipeyarchi recently and the numbers may not be very few - may be very many
 
1)Vaishnavites do not subscribe to the story of ayyappa's birth as narrated in some purana. So knowledgeable vaishnavites do not participate in ayyappa worship. Some vaishnavites do visit sabarimala to worship ayyappa too.

2)I am a bit uncomfortable with this. Knowledgeable donot participate in Ayyappa worship. OK But then What about some who worship Ayyappa - not knowledgeable or ignorant?

3)Sankarankoil temple is common to both. Vashinava are monotheist (Post 204). Is 2 in 1 acceptable where Hari is united with Haran anatomically to the knowldgreable?

points numbered for convenience.

2)Yes they are ignorant vaishnavas.

3)The knowledgeable vaishnavas worship the Narayana there. There is no 2 in 1. There is only one. The antaryami is Narayana for a vaishnavite. He has no problem with the deity in Sankarankoil as it is just Narayana for him.
 
points numbered for convenience.

2)Yes they are ignorant vaishnavas.

3)The knowledgeable vaishnavas worship the Narayana there. There is no 2 in 1. There is only one. The antaryami is Narayana for a vaishnavite. He has no problem with the deity in Sankarankoil as it is just Narayana for him.


Dear Vaagmi ji,

So here you have classified Vaishnavas into:


1)Ignorant

2)Knowledgeable



Now how "knowledgeable" is even category No 2 when they still verily hold on to a preferred from of worship?

So it just seems that we humans are either dumb or dumber and all of us are blissfully ignorant of that fact...well ignorance is bliss some say!LOL
 
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Dear Vaagmi ji,

So here you have classified Vaishnavas into:


1)Ignorant

2)Knowledgeable



Now how "knowledgeable" is even category No 2 when they still verily hold on to a preferred from of worship?

So it just seems that we humans are either dumb or dumber and all of us are blissfully ignorant of that fact...well ignorance is bliss some say!LOL

You are too logical.

Do you not know that my faith is better than your faith?
 
Dear Vaagmi ji,

So here you have classified Vaishnavas into:


1)Ignorant

2)Knowledgeable



Now how "knowledgeable" is even category No 2 when they still verily hold on to a preferred from of worship?

So it just seems that we humans are either dumb or dumber and all of us are blissfully ignorant of that fact...well ignorance is bliss some say!LOL

Dear Renuka,

Do you really believe that an Adi Sankara form of worship (of Shanmadas) is only true knowledge? If that be the case, it can be expanded to other religions too, don't you think?

We Vaishnavas, akin to Veera Shaivas, believe that any chosen form of faith is capable of bestowing 'knowledge' - only one has to be steadfast in his/her faith and work harder.

Even Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, went forward steadfast in his Kali worship and realized her first and only then he realized reality as a Muslim and a Christian. He did not choose to represent and gain knowledge in every faith out there to gain knowledge.
 
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Dear Vaagmi ji,

So here you have classified Vaishnavas into:


1)Ignorant

2)Knowledgeable



Now how "knowledgeable" is even category No 2 when they still verily hold on to a preferred from of worship?

So it just seems that we humans are either dumb or dumber and all of us are blissfully ignorant of that fact...well ignorance is bliss some say!LOL

No Infact it adds to 4 - Ignorant V.Kalai, Knowledgeable V. Kalai, Ignorant T.Kalai, Knowledgeable T.Kalai
 
points numbered for convenience.

2)Yes they are ignorant vaishnavas.

3)The knowledgeable vaishnavas worship the Narayana there. There is no 2 in 1. There is only one. The antaryami is Narayana for a vaishnavite. He has no problem with the deity in Sankarankoil as it is just Narayana for
him.

Point 3 : Sees only one half - Hari - & blind to the other half Haran - Or see both as one - Hariyum Haranum Onnu! How do Vaishnavas look at it?

Why The antaryami is Naryanan for a vaishnavite is not true in Ayyappa episode where again the Hari and Haran are united to beget Harihara Sudan!
 
there is another classification -foolish and non foolish.

many who spend hours dissecting single and multi god worships belong to former category.

with their knowledge , they can make useful contributions instead of talking of subsect divisions in

brahmin community and feeling extra holy about their sub castes
 
Why no Navagraha in Sri Vishnu Temples?

1) Vaishnava follows single god worship on Lord Maha Vishnu and pray only Vishnu and the parampara deities. Also the Nirthyasuries, Alwars and Sri Ramanujacharya like Gurus. No place for Navagrahas. Vaishna believe by praying Lord Narayana one can get Navagrahas blessings. Vaisnava treat all other deitys as limited power Devatas.

Sriman Narayana
|
|
Sri Lakshmi
|
|
Sri Vishwaksenar

Garuda, Anjaneya

All Alwars,

Sri Ramanuja

Sri Vedanta Desika

Sri Manavala Mamunigal

2) No Alwar sang in praise of Lord Maha Vishnu only and not on any Navagraha. Where as Kolaru Pathigam was composed by Thirugnyaana Sambandhar and thus Sivan temples have Navagraha Sannithis.

3) Sri Vishnu temples are constructed based on Vaikanasa and Panjaratra Agamas. Navagraha shrine inside a Vishnu temple is not provided in these Agamas.

4) Many small recently constructed Sri Visnu temples have Navagraha shrines here and there. But among 108 Divya Desam temples one temple has a separate sannadhi for Navagrahas.

Sri Koodal Azhagar Perumal Temple, Madurai has this distinction!



 
Dear Renuka,

Do you really believe that an Adi Sankara form of worship (of Shanmadas) is only true knowledge? If that be the case, it can be expanded to other religions too, don't you think?

We Vaishnavas, akin to Veera Shaivas, believe that any chosen form of faith is capable of bestowing 'knowledge' - only one has to be steadfast in his/her faith and work harder.

Even Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, went forward steadfast in his Kali worship and realized her first and only then he realized reality as a Muslim and a Christian. He did not choose to represent and gain knowledge in every faith out there to gain knowledge.

dear JR,

There is no difference between Jnaana Marga and Bhakti Marg...both are boats that finally take across the ocean of Samsar.

The problem is both followers of Jnaana and Bhakti stand the risk of not getting off the boat when it reaches it destination..let me explain..

1)The Jnaana Marg person might wonder "Is it the time to leave the boat? Have I reached?..then he starts to wonder "Well may be its Maya deluding me into thinking I have reached...I think I will wait a little while more"

And he still waits in the boat becos he does not want to leave analysis and logic behind.


2)The Bhakti Marg person on the other hand is emotional..the boat is his identity......he cries "Aiyooo my boat...how can I leave you and get down....you brought me accross the ocean of samsara..but how to leave you behind...NO NO.>>>>>I wont leave you behind...I need you....I love you......"

and he too remains in the boat becos he does not want to leave his chosen form of Divinity behind..


Ever wondered why Krishna said that hardly one person reaches Him?LOL
 
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I really have to ask this question..I know it might sound weird..but its been too long in my mind..I have to ask this question.

It's an honest sincere question with no intention to find fault with any sect...ok here goes:


How is it that Vaishnavas always almost 99.9999999999999999999% or I can say even 100% hold on so tight to the fact that only Narayana is supreme and what they have been taught to believe in is the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

They hold on to their belief..identify with it fully till the end...How is this possible?


You see for some of us..we read..we have been told..have been taught.. yet someway down the lane we start too think 'hey this cant be..this does not seem too logical...it seems that there is a missing link somewhere"...one does not want to hold on to anything..be it Dvaita,Advaita,Vishistadvaita or anything else.

And neither one feel bad or guilty about rejecting all systems of belief too.

But you can hardly find a Vaishnava thinking on these lines....they never want to give up their belief system.

Why is a Vaishnava wired differently? Even ISKCONites display similar thinking.

I am not talking about TBs alone here...Its the same with Non Brahmins too...I have Vaishnava relatives from my husband's side who worship Narayana and Narasimha and they are also the same.

Can someone explain why?
 
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Dear Vaagmi ji,

So here you have classified Vaishnavas into:
1)Ignorant
2)Knowledgeable
Now how "knowledgeable" is even category No 2 when they still verily hold on to a preferred from of worship?
So it just seems that we humans are either dumb or dumber and all of us are blissfully ignorant of that fact...well ignorance is bliss some say!LOL

Renukaji,

What is this "preferred form of worship"? a god entity is worshiped. each one either worships or does not worship. It is not as if there are a hundred worshiping methods and one has to choose one from that.

Ignorance is not an all pervading phenomena. There are people who are ignorant and there are those who are not.
 
Why The antaryami is Naryanan for a vaishnavite is not true in Ayyappa episode where again the Hari and Haran are united to beget Harihara Sudan!

It is very simple. Vaishnavites do not subscribe to the theory of harihara sudan. Rather we consider it as a concoction by someone who took a few pegs more of his favourite Bacardi or Arrack. For vaishnavites Ayyappa is just Sastha who is one of the Devatas. Much before this Sabarimala Ayyappa became famous, the smartha brahmins of Tamilnadu had this sastha worship well established. In fact many such families have sastha as the kuladeivam for them. Usually such Sastha temples are in the banks or in the midst of irrigation tanks in southern tamilnadu villages. Ayyappa, hariharasudan, the salacious story of Siva losing his balance and begetting the child through mohini etc are all later day X rated reels.
 
renukaji
become a vaishnavite and experience the feeling of chanting 'om namo narayana'

poet kannadasan sings in one of his creations about the glory of the heart which has been stolen

by kannan and inability to give it to anyone else

meera says she is krishnas charnon ki daasi

in madhuban krishna plays the flute and radhika dances away in gay abandon-a composition by

shakeel badayuni in fiim kohinoor

so many feel comfort in names of krishna, narayana

most vaishnavites women can think of krishna as lover, kannan as their divine child, narayana as

their protector to the exclusion of every other God and Goddess

one has to be a vaishnavite to have these experiences.lol

I am a diluted vaishnavite belonging to 0.0000000000001 percent as per your post
 
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renukaji
well I was trying to find out if I could get away posting something like this.

see I have got you all mixed up.

this is what happens when one tries to talk religion.

one gets carried away and posts foolish things.lol

some vaishnavites are fanatics.others are not. it all depends whom you come in contact with
 
I really have to ask this question..I know it might sound weird..but its been too long in my mind..I have to ask this question.It's an honest sincere question with no intention to find fault with any sect...ok

to me there is nothing weird about your thought. Your sincerity is understood well.

here goes:
How is it that Vaishnavas always almost 99.9999999999999999999% or I can say even 100% hold on so tight to the fact that only Narayana is supreme and what they have been taught to believe in is the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
They hold on to their belief..identify with it fully till the end...How is this possible?

You are perhaps over simplifying. your understanding appear to be basically flawed. It is not true that vaishnavites believe Narayana is supreme compared to any other God. They believe God can be just only one and they prefer to call him Narayana. There is no binary thinking involved here like who is suprerior and who is inferior. They are followers of vedas. They understand that vedas call the God entity as Narayana. So they call him Narayana and worship him. There is no indoctrination involved here. I am sure you understand that vaishnavas are not such robots who can be programmed into believing something and give their life for that.


You see for some of us..we read..we have been told..have been taught.. yet someway down the lane we start too think 'hey this cant be..this does not seem too logical...it seems that there is a missing link somewhere"...one does not want to hold on to anything..be it Dvaita,Advaita,Vishistadvaita or anything else.
And neither one feel bad or guilty about rejecting all systems of belief too.
But you can hardly find a Vaishnava thinking on these lines....they never want to give up their belief system.

I was taught, I was told, I read and at some point in my life I too thought about what I was told, taught etc., critically. Then I searched. I studied saivam(not smarthaism because it is not a religion), Jainism and christianity completely. I also studied the various schools of vaishnavam itself. I asked critical questions about what I came across and thought about the answers. Then I found that Vaishnavam as a religious faith is much more logical than others. And I am a vaishnava. and all informed/knowledgeable vaishnavas have gone through this drill and have reached the same conclusion perhaps. Besides critically questioning, giving up what is taught, not holding on to anything etc., there is another natural process called validating which is what vaishnavas have been perhaps doing. they reject only that which is not validated by critical examination by a thinking mind.

Now you would have understood that you are appropriating all the questioning and searching abilities to yourself and a few like minded people with you. When you close your eyes you just don't see. The world does not stop existing for that moment. There are a lot of things happening outside you too. If rejecting everything that is taught, told etc., is the true indication of evolving and maturing the world will become a difficult jungle to live in.

Why is a Vaishnava wired differently? Even ISKCONites display similar thinking.

A vaishnava is perhaps wired differently because he does not believe in shunya vaada and his search ends with finding something and not in that meaningless dark night where everything appears black--the cow, cowherd, milk,grass, the observer and everything around. I do not know much about ISKCONites. But I can tell you that they are people who have found the truth after a search like you and are very sure and militant about it. Most of them belong to a different racial stock and their processes are different.

I am not talking about TBs alone here...Its the same with Non Brahmins too...I have Vaishnava relatives from my husband's side who worship Narayana and Narasimha and they are also the same.

When it comes to religion, philosophy and God vaishnavas do not attach much significance to castes.
They follow and would continue to insist on following castes at another level because it is a useful social structural arrangement (without any supreriority/inferiority discrimination or arrogance). So vaishnavas are just vaishnavas whether they are Bs or NBs. There are only two categories the informed/knowledgeable and the uninformed/ignoramuses. Both follow their belief system with a certain amount of sincerity because intuitively they all understand that their system is the best. And why should they give it up?

Can someone explain why?

I think I have explained. Perceive please.
 
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