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Why the Brahmins & Dalits should unite
- Thread starter vgane
- Start date
- Status
renuka
Well-known member
True..
Even out here its the NB that makes the most fuss about caste.
I even have some asking me my caste and I reply I am human!!LOL
Some totally dislike my reply and ask me back " are you hiding anything"
Then I reply " Chidananda Roopam Shivoham Shivoham"
So no one says anything after that.
I really cant stand anyone who wants to know caste of a person they are talking too.
renuka
Well-known member
Society would find away to classify itself even if caste did not exist but most important is differences can exists but respect should prevail.
I sincerely wish some of our Hindu text are edited to remove the assumption that a Sudra whether janma Sudra or Guna Sudra is low born..tamas..addicted to inertia etc.
That has to change..in the eyes of God no one is superior or inferior.
In fact a Hadith I recently read says this:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
Could we have a Hindu version?..I edited it.
All mankind is from Manu and Satarupa , a Brahmin has no superiority over a non-Brahmin nor a non-Brahmin has any superiority over an Brahmin ; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
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GANESH65
Active member
Karnataka: Pregnant Muslim woman ‘burnt to death’ for marrying a Dalit
A 21-year-old pregnant Muslim woman was allegedly burnt to death by her family for eloping and marrying a Dalit man in north Karnataka’s Vijayapura district, police said on Tuesday.
Banu Begum ran away from her home in Gundakanala village with her lover Sayabanna Konnur, who hails from the Valmiki caste two weeks ago, and the couple got married in Goa, police said.
Banu’s family was enraged and lodged a case under the Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act but police dropped the investigation as she was an adult. This further angered the woman’s relatives, police said.
The couple returned home last week but on Saturday, the woman’s family barged into their house and allegedly set her ablaze, police said. Konnur also sustained injuries in the incident and has been hospitalised.
“We have so far arrested, Banu’s mother Ramzanbi, her brother Akbar; sister Davalbi, and brother-in-law Jilani,” said superintendent of police Kuldeep Kumar Jain.
“We are still on the lookout for two other sisters of hers in connection with the incident,” Jain added.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...hindu-dalit/story-OXjWlwpF0Xp4Za2QygAS5O.html
A 21-year-old pregnant Muslim woman was allegedly burnt to death by her family for eloping and marrying a Dalit man in north Karnataka’s Vijayapura district, police said on Tuesday.
Banu Begum ran away from her home in Gundakanala village with her lover Sayabanna Konnur, who hails from the Valmiki caste two weeks ago, and the couple got married in Goa, police said.
Banu’s family was enraged and lodged a case under the Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act but police dropped the investigation as she was an adult. This further angered the woman’s relatives, police said.
The couple returned home last week but on Saturday, the woman’s family barged into their house and allegedly set her ablaze, police said. Konnur also sustained injuries in the incident and has been hospitalised.
“We have so far arrested, Banu’s mother Ramzanbi, her brother Akbar; sister Davalbi, and brother-in-law Jilani,” said superintendent of police Kuldeep Kumar Jain.
“We are still on the lookout for two other sisters of hers in connection with the incident,” Jain added.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...hindu-dalit/story-OXjWlwpF0Xp4Za2QygAS5O.html
renuka
Well-known member
Read the episode posted by Ganesh Sir. I am just curious to know this:
If Brahmins and Dalits unite, will such killings be stopped?
No..it wont..Dalits might be targeted more cos Middle Caste would think that the Dalits had the audacity to team up with Brahmins and Brahmins cant really confer any physical protection to Dalits and Dalits would just die in hands of Middle Castes.
So its not a good move..its not a Garuda Sowkiamma case where Lord Shiva can confer protection.
Dalits better learn to educate themselves and move on..instead of hoping to team up with anyone.
The harsh fact is Dalitam is NOT Madhuram.
A Dalit be it Hindu ..Muslim or Christian would only be viewed as a Dalit cos in India casteism has invaded all religions including the eglatarian ones.
So a Dalit needs to arm himself with education.
Education is the only sword that can decapitate anyone.
We should see the post from the perspective of a Dalit protagonist...Dalits like Brahmins have been oppressed, depressed and subjected to humongous abuse...Only difference is that for Dalits revenge is part & parcel of their character and so are not averse to bloodletting to avenge the insults and humiliation heaped on them..Brahmins on the other hand being law abiding despite public rants against the community and selective shoot & scoot attacks do not go for revenge attacks..May be time is ripe for that...There is already talk of forming a Sena like Bajrang Dal to protect the community
renuka
Well-known member
But the fact to remember and not forget is..in the past when the Dalit suffered..he suffered alone.
At that time why no other caste thought of joining hands with the Dalit?
So this sort of arrangement is not conducive for anyone cos its totally with motives to make use of each other.
Is it becos having tasted oppression and depression one starts to understand the plights of Dalits?
Why only now ?
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S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Active member
'There have been many Brahmins supportive of the Dalit cause.' "Sagaran" as quoted by Sri Vagne.
One was Gopalakrishna Bhaarathi whose drama in Tamil "Nanthanaar" was made into a popular film starring a real-life Tamil Brahmin as a haughty, cruel, wicked and tyrannous landlord and a Dalit as the long-suffering submissive slave-like victim. ("Aiye, mikka kadinam; um adimai, aiye mikka kadinam!")
"What did the Brahmins do for the Dalits, (so that) they should reciprocate them? -- Prasad1, Veteran.
മാബലി നാടു വാണീടും കാലം
മനുഷ്യര് എല്ലോരും ഒന്നു പോലെ.........
ദുഷ്ടരെ കണ്ണ്കൊണ്ട് കാണാറ് ഇല്ല
വഞ്ചനയ് ഇല്ല ചതിയും ഇല്ല.........
In my early days I was taken to visit a Brahmin family's paddy farm situated within walking distance from our agrahaaram. It was reached by a two-foot-wide tamped-down earth-bund built between two paddy-fields. We went bare-footed and bare-bodied, as was the usual practice, with a little turban to keep out the sun's rays.
The farm was quite huge, and seemed to stretch as far as my young eyes could see. It required a substantial labour force. These, mainly cheruman (dalits), were housed in their own self-contained little village on higher ground among the fields.
The residential terrace-homes formed three sides of a square, enclosing a broad tamped-down hard clay playground where several children were enjoying themselves in games. Behind the housing units were the workers' own adjoining vegetable patches where they grew produce for consumption, for gifting, and for exchange. Beyond were groves of sugarcane, banana, coconut, arecanut, mango, tamarind, palm, and other trees planted by the Brahmin landowners for the workers' harvesting and consumption.
Workers were also allowed to rear their own chicken and goats, either individually or as a co-operative, and keep tame pets such as parrots and other birds, cats and dogs.
Some distance away was a school building and, adjoining it, an extension which served as a single-bed clinic for the visiting vaarier skilled in traditional aurvedic medicine. The school building also served as a practice-hall for workers playing or children learning to play musical instruments like kombu-kozhaal, chenda, kinnaaraam, flute, maththalam, and dancing like kolaattam, kai-kotti-kali, kummi, krishnaattam.
The open fields, after harvest, were sites of kite-flying and other outdoor amusements.
Festival times such as ohnam, vishu, kaarthigai, sree-krishna jayanthi, ther-ottu, uri-adi were joyous occasions when everyone joined in, both dalits and brahmins, and their families. Brahmins took these opportunities to distribute money and gifts to dalits on these occasions.
All in all, every need of the dalits, including family life, work, food, shelter, health, education, money, games, amusemnent., entertainment, were conscientiously cared for by the land-owning brahmins.
Disputes among dalits which could not be resolved by the headman, were brought to the land-owner for hearing and adjudication, or by way of appeal against the headman's decisions.
Complaints included wife-snatching, seduction and enticement, molestation of boys, girls and women, theft, destruction of property, usury, drunken fights, decamping with money or goods or women, pain and suffering inflicted on fellow-villagers or their children, or their possessions such as chicken, goats.
(Postscript: On a post-war visit to the same site, I found that the Independent India government, under its land re-distribution scheme, had seized all the land, subdivided it into miscroscopic uneconomic slices and distributed them to the dalits.
Lacking a common water supply, adequate seed grains, fertiliser, equipment and repair tools, the new ambitious dalit landowners had fallen into the clutches of rapacious foreign dalit moneylenders, mortgaged their land, lost it and were itinerant beggars. The cut-up land was neglected, overgrown with weeds and thorny hedges and unfit for cultivation without heavy capital investment.
A surprising number of new toddy-shops, well patronised, had sprung up on the land! With seductive young barmaids.)
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
One was Gopalakrishna Bhaarathi whose drama in Tamil "Nanthanaar" was made into a popular film starring a real-life Tamil Brahmin as a haughty, cruel, wicked and tyrannous landlord and a Dalit as the long-suffering submissive slave-like victim. ("Aiye, mikka kadinam; um adimai, aiye mikka kadinam!")
"What did the Brahmins do for the Dalits, (so that) they should reciprocate them? -- Prasad1, Veteran.
മാബലി നാടു വാണീടും കാലം
മനുഷ്യര് എല്ലോരും ഒന്നു പോലെ.........
ദുഷ്ടരെ കണ്ണ്കൊണ്ട് കാണാറ് ഇല്ല
വഞ്ചനയ് ഇല്ല ചതിയും ഇല്ല.........
In my early days I was taken to visit a Brahmin family's paddy farm situated within walking distance from our agrahaaram. It was reached by a two-foot-wide tamped-down earth-bund built between two paddy-fields. We went bare-footed and bare-bodied, as was the usual practice, with a little turban to keep out the sun's rays.
The farm was quite huge, and seemed to stretch as far as my young eyes could see. It required a substantial labour force. These, mainly cheruman (dalits), were housed in their own self-contained little village on higher ground among the fields.
The residential terrace-homes formed three sides of a square, enclosing a broad tamped-down hard clay playground where several children were enjoying themselves in games. Behind the housing units were the workers' own adjoining vegetable patches where they grew produce for consumption, for gifting, and for exchange. Beyond were groves of sugarcane, banana, coconut, arecanut, mango, tamarind, palm, and other trees planted by the Brahmin landowners for the workers' harvesting and consumption.
Workers were also allowed to rear their own chicken and goats, either individually or as a co-operative, and keep tame pets such as parrots and other birds, cats and dogs.
Some distance away was a school building and, adjoining it, an extension which served as a single-bed clinic for the visiting vaarier skilled in traditional aurvedic medicine. The school building also served as a practice-hall for workers playing or children learning to play musical instruments like kombu-kozhaal, chenda, kinnaaraam, flute, maththalam, and dancing like kolaattam, kai-kotti-kali, kummi, krishnaattam.
The open fields, after harvest, were sites of kite-flying and other outdoor amusements.
Festival times such as ohnam, vishu, kaarthigai, sree-krishna jayanthi, ther-ottu, uri-adi were joyous occasions when everyone joined in, both dalits and brahmins, and their families. Brahmins took these opportunities to distribute money and gifts to dalits on these occasions.
All in all, every need of the dalits, including family life, work, food, shelter, health, education, money, games, amusemnent., entertainment, were conscientiously cared for by the land-owning brahmins.
Disputes among dalits which could not be resolved by the headman, were brought to the land-owner for hearing and adjudication, or by way of appeal against the headman's decisions.
Complaints included wife-snatching, seduction and enticement, molestation of boys, girls and women, theft, destruction of property, usury, drunken fights, decamping with money or goods or women, pain and suffering inflicted on fellow-villagers or their children, or their possessions such as chicken, goats.
(Postscript: On a post-war visit to the same site, I found that the Independent India government, under its land re-distribution scheme, had seized all the land, subdivided it into miscroscopic uneconomic slices and distributed them to the dalits.
Lacking a common water supply, adequate seed grains, fertiliser, equipment and repair tools, the new ambitious dalit landowners had fallen into the clutches of rapacious foreign dalit moneylenders, mortgaged their land, lost it and were itinerant beggars. The cut-up land was neglected, overgrown with weeds and thorny hedges and unfit for cultivation without heavy capital investment.
A surprising number of new toddy-shops, well patronised, had sprung up on the land! With seductive young barmaids.)
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
GANESH65
Active member
There is one community in India called Parsis. They migrated to India as early as 8th or 9th century. At present the strength of this community is less than 60000. They mostly remain within their community and do not have any problem with other communities. They never asked for any minority status or any benifits from the Government. They never fought with any other community for any of their rights. Despite all that they still remain rich and affluent community in India. All credits goes to their hardwork and self esteem. I think other communities in India need to learn much from Parsis.
renuka
Well-known member
Its becos they know they were not in their land of origin.
Just like any foreigner who goes to another country all will behave and abide to any rules..eg Asians in USA..quiet as mice.
If thes same Parsis go back to Iran..the watch all hell break lose...surely they would want to reclaim lost status.
Therefore the only way for everyone to behave even in their own country is to think they are just temporary in this world and not claim any special status.
Btw Parsis too dont have respect for Dalits..Dr Ambedkar was treated badly by a Parsi and he felt really bad that he being an original indian of the land was humiliated by an immigrant Parsi.
But would a Parsi dare mess with other castes?
Heck No.
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renuka
Well-known member
Islam is a religion not a race.
Inhabitants of present day India embraced Hinduism..Buddhism..Christianity and Islam.
Muslims in India are of Indian origin though some in North might claim to have Middle Eastern blood.
That way anyone can ask is Sanathana Dharma too of Indian origin or brought in much later?
GANESH65
Active member
Hinduism was prevalent religion in India prior to spreading of Christianity from East or Islam from middle East or Afghanistan. Even if we consider Aryans invaded India during ancient times and pushed the Dravidians towards south, there is no proof that adi dravidians followed any other religion than Hinduism. Sorry we are deviating from the main subject.. .
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prasad1
Active member
One way not to get any conversation going!!!!!!!! Speak in a language no one can understand.
renuka
Well-known member
Last edited:
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Active member
Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Disparaging Avatars and Gods will not be tolerated.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Disparaging Avatars and Gods will not be tolerated.
prasad1
Active member
Sir,
Your contention that some can read Swahili does not mean it is appropriate other places. That is very inconsiderate of you.
Secondly, Disparaging Avatars or God is not appropriate in this forum.
prasad1
Active member
99% of Indian subcontinent Muslims are of Indian origin and are converted mostly from Hinduism.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Active member
Dear Sri Prasad1
Have always had a high regard for you and your expressed views.
Calling fellow-Dravidians Telegus, Kannadas, and Keralites "Swahili" in the demeaning sense of "<snip[FONT="]>[/FONT] is hardly becoming. Might even smack of Tamil-chauvinism, if left unqualified.
As for "Disparaging Avatars or God", no such thing occurred.
My Puraana purohits told my class of Veda students that Shukraaachaariar, the respected guru of the asuras, knew by his powerful dhrishti-shakthi that the Brahmachaari praying for biksha of three feet of ground to do his maadhyaahnikam was in fact Lord Mahaa Vishnu seeking to depose Emperor Mahaabali.
He therefore counselled his royal shishyan not to do the kshethra-daanam by putting tulsi leaves into the cupped hands of the yaachakan and pouring theertham on top, thereby perfecting the gift after pronouncing "Bhoo-daanam dadaami".
This yaachakan was a "kapada-naadaka sookshma vanchakan, a vesha daari", the guru warned. The English rendering would be something like "secret cheater playing a part in a false drama, an imposter". Instead of this cumbersome phraseology I simply used the word "scheming". (Those in the know, will know.)
When the emperor proceeded despite (in defiance of) the upadesham, Shukraachaariar took the form of a honey-bee, entered the neck of the kendi, blocking the flow of water. Annoyed, the emperor picked up a straw lying on the ground and poked it through the mouth at the neck of the kendi. Blinded thereby in one eye, Shukrachaariar flew out of the kendi, and disappeared saying the emperor's fate was sealed. (Even today Shukra bhagavaan, one of the nava graha-moorthies, is known as "The Oned-yed One".)
The emperor completed his donation.
The beggar-boy immediately enlarged himself to a sky-reaching giant in size (vishva-roopam) and took one step which covered the entire world (bhoo-lokam). With his next step he covered the upper regions -- bhuva-lokam, suvar-lokam, mahaa-lokam, jana-lokam, tapo-lokam, sathya-lokam. He then asked the emperor for the vowed third foot-sized piece of land.
The emperor knelt down, bowed his royal head, and invited Lord Vaamana to put his foot on the emperor's own back. The Lord did so, and thrust the mere mortal through atala, vitala, sutala, rasaatala, mahaatala, and talaatala, into paataalam.
That was what we were all taught in our class. The same version is what I heard in several kathaa-kaalakshepams by eminent bhaagavathars and shaasthrigals. It might well be that you heard differently, as gurus frequently differ.
Were all these eminent knowledgeable men "disparaging" avataarams or God, Sir?
Please let me assure you that I had not the least intention of disparaging any avatar or God. Puranic stories might seem odd to the uninitiated. That might not be grounds for suppressing or editing them.
As for "Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya", that is the shaashtaanga prostration I make every time I chant the Vishnu sahasra-naamam (an extract from Vyaasa's Mahaa-Bhaaratham). It is followeed immediately by -- "Om vishvasmai namaha. Vishvam, vishnum, vashad kaaro....."
Hindu communities, even in far-flung countries, aided by Vishnu temples and Braahmana samoohams, sabhas, and associations, hold annual "Koti-naama paaraayana japams" during which participants complete reciting together ten million naamas chanting the vishnu sahsara-naamamover a 42-day period.
One essential component of such japams is the namaskaara-manthram "Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya."
Hope you can kindly refrain from reading anything sinister or derogatory into my post. Thanks.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Have always had a high regard for you and your expressed views.
Calling fellow-Dravidians Telegus, Kannadas, and Keralites "Swahili" in the demeaning sense of "<snip[FONT="]>[/FONT] is hardly becoming. Might even smack of Tamil-chauvinism, if left unqualified.
As for "Disparaging Avatars or God", no such thing occurred.
My Puraana purohits told my class of Veda students that Shukraaachaariar, the respected guru of the asuras, knew by his powerful dhrishti-shakthi that the Brahmachaari praying for biksha of three feet of ground to do his maadhyaahnikam was in fact Lord Mahaa Vishnu seeking to depose Emperor Mahaabali.
He therefore counselled his royal shishyan not to do the kshethra-daanam by putting tulsi leaves into the cupped hands of the yaachakan and pouring theertham on top, thereby perfecting the gift after pronouncing "Bhoo-daanam dadaami".
This yaachakan was a "kapada-naadaka sookshma vanchakan, a vesha daari", the guru warned. The English rendering would be something like "secret cheater playing a part in a false drama, an imposter". Instead of this cumbersome phraseology I simply used the word "scheming". (Those in the know, will know.)
When the emperor proceeded despite (in defiance of) the upadesham, Shukraachaariar took the form of a honey-bee, entered the neck of the kendi, blocking the flow of water. Annoyed, the emperor picked up a straw lying on the ground and poked it through the mouth at the neck of the kendi. Blinded thereby in one eye, Shukrachaariar flew out of the kendi, and disappeared saying the emperor's fate was sealed. (Even today Shukra bhagavaan, one of the nava graha-moorthies, is known as "The Oned-yed One".)
The emperor completed his donation.
The beggar-boy immediately enlarged himself to a sky-reaching giant in size (vishva-roopam) and took one step which covered the entire world (bhoo-lokam). With his next step he covered the upper regions -- bhuva-lokam, suvar-lokam, mahaa-lokam, jana-lokam, tapo-lokam, sathya-lokam. He then asked the emperor for the vowed third foot-sized piece of land.
The emperor knelt down, bowed his royal head, and invited Lord Vaamana to put his foot on the emperor's own back. The Lord did so, and thrust the mere mortal through atala, vitala, sutala, rasaatala, mahaatala, and talaatala, into paataalam.
That was what we were all taught in our class. The same version is what I heard in several kathaa-kaalakshepams by eminent bhaagavathars and shaasthrigals. It might well be that you heard differently, as gurus frequently differ.
Were all these eminent knowledgeable men "disparaging" avataarams or God, Sir?
Please let me assure you that I had not the least intention of disparaging any avatar or God. Puranic stories might seem odd to the uninitiated. That might not be grounds for suppressing or editing them.
As for "Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya", that is the shaashtaanga prostration I make every time I chant the Vishnu sahasra-naamam (an extract from Vyaasa's Mahaa-Bhaaratham). It is followeed immediately by -- "Om vishvasmai namaha. Vishvam, vishnum, vashad kaaro....."
Hindu communities, even in far-flung countries, aided by Vishnu temples and Braahmana samoohams, sabhas, and associations, hold annual "Koti-naama paaraayana japams" during which participants complete reciting together ten million naamas chanting the vishnu sahsara-naamamover a 42-day period.
One essential component of such japams is the namaskaara-manthram "Om namo bhagavathe vaasudevaaya."
Hope you can kindly refrain from reading anything sinister or derogatory into my post. Thanks.
S Narayanaswamy Iyer
Last edited by a moderator:
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Narayana Iyer Ji,
Its very racists of you to denote Africans as savages.
African languages have beautiful words and African people have their own life style.
Just becos their life style is different that does not mean they are savages.
Its just a figure of speech when one says Swahili..its like using the term Greek and Latin when nothing makes sense to us.
I hope moderator would delete your racists remarks by calling Sub Saharans as savages.
I have reported your post just to delete the savage word.
If I report a post I will inform the poster that I am reporting.
Its very racists of you to denote Africans as savages.
African languages have beautiful words and African people have their own life style.
Just becos their life style is different that does not mean they are savages.
Its just a figure of speech when one says Swahili..its like using the term Greek and Latin when nothing makes sense to us.
I hope moderator would delete your racists remarks by calling Sub Saharans as savages.
I have reported your post just to delete the savage word.
If I report a post I will inform the poster that I am reporting.
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prasad1
Active member
Thanks for the compliment.
What was that rant about?
Let us be precise and to the topic of the thread.
Thank you.
Back to the topic!!
I think it will help the Hindus if the Dalits who are going astray are brought back to the ruling party side. Look at the ramifications of the Bhim Army that is going berserk in UP...The Jatavs (Mayawati ex CM of UP belong to this caste) who are the main supporters of the Bhim Army
On a similar note in TN, Thirumavalavan & Krishnaswamy who are leading the Paraiyars and Pallars should be enticed by the BJP as they will strengthen the support base of BJP along with the existing support of the middle castes -Nadars, Thevars & Gounders
In case Brahmins support such a combination it will reap them electoral dividends
I think it will help the Hindus if the Dalits who are going astray are brought back to the ruling party side. Look at the ramifications of the Bhim Army that is going berserk in UP...The Jatavs (Mayawati ex CM of UP belong to this caste) who are the main supporters of the Bhim Army
On a similar note in TN, Thirumavalavan & Krishnaswamy who are leading the Paraiyars and Pallars should be enticed by the BJP as they will strengthen the support base of BJP along with the existing support of the middle castes -Nadars, Thevars & Gounders
In case Brahmins support such a combination it will reap them electoral dividends
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