women domination

[amala]

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I agree Rekka. As a Grihasta some of them didn't do their duty to their wives and children. In fact I feel Sita would have been better off with Ravana in the end. As even after being rescued she was "trialled" (agni pariksha) by fire and in the end after having her kids she went back to Bhuma Devi. It is probably a very controversial opinion and I know the reasons and excuses for our dear beloved Maryada Purushotam will come piling in

 

[amala]

A follow up to my post above: Which is why I absolutely adore Hanuman and he is my favourite character from Ramayan. One just cannot get more loyalty than that!

 

[Raji Ram]

If SeetA had decided to live with RAvanA, then do you think anyone will pray her as SeetA mAtA?? :decision:

 

[amala]

Probably not mami .

 

[Raji Ram]

I used to wonder why women in olden days did not remarry where as most of the men did!

The reason may be that they would have had enough with the first guy and hence decided to stay alone!!

eace:

 

[asananth]

Education is the key

Hello Renuka,

Leaving religions aside, my own view is that no woman's life should be dependent on goodwill of her husband. Economic independence is the key and for that education is a must. I am from Mumbai and I know that even the slum dwellers send their daughters for education.That looks like the trend in villages as well. People have realised the value of education in social mobility. Our maid servant who has been with us for seventeen years had sent her two daughters to school and college and both of them are in BPO. Her family and herself are certainly moving up the social scale. Number of women entering the work force is ever increasing and I think the present generation of boys who have grown up in an atmosphere where society is willing to treat women as equals are more willing to respect them as equals. And it is good for society as well because more women gainfully employed means increased creation of wealth for the nation as well. Corporates ,to retain women workers are putting in place support systems to enable working mothers to continue working. Obviously they see value in retaining these women. Youngsters are lucky to be living in such a world today. Wish them well.

As for emotional dependency, I suppose it can work both ways. So many men are emotionally dependent on their wives and vice versa. I suppose it is how the personalities match and each couple will have to seek their own solutions but not having to depend economically on each other will go a long way in fostering mutual respect and more balanced relationship.

Have a nice day

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

There is a Proverb," There is no Life Without a Wife ". There is no Proverb even in English,as The European Culture is Entirely Different from Our Culture.

( Their Culture is " Your Children and My Children are Playing with Our Children ". )

In our Hindu Culture too Aadhi Parashakthi is supposed to be The Mightiest than Lord Shiva.

All rivers in India are in the name of Ladies.

We call our Country as Bharata Matha.

Our Culture gives More Importance to Ladies than Man.

Madam Raji Ram in her post 29 wondered , " why women in olden days did not remarry after the Demise of their husband ".

I have also seen many Young widows in olden days lived alone without remarriage.

In fact that is the Pride in our Culture.

In case of " Widowers " they marry after the demise of their Wife, This may be because Normally Gents are in Need Of KADIVAALAMS in their daily living which is not a must for Ladies as they are Perfect by birth.





.

 

[kunjuppu]

I used to wonder why women in olden days did not remarry where as most of the men did!

The reason may be that they would have had enough with the first guy and hence decided to stay alone!!

eace:

raji,

you know that this is not true. also widowhood is not a flippant topic in our tradition.

i can understand TS Sankaranarayanan claiming it is the 'superiority of our culture'.

what happened mostly, till 50 years ago, was, the widow, was first shaved off her hair, went through the traumatic process of removing her thaali, given white clothes, shunned to the unseen corner of the house, considered a bad omen for any family functions, and even for her own son's or daughters' wedding relegated to a corner.

every tambram family has had its share of mottai widows, of all ages, sad to say.

i would request you, as an intelligent lady, to please reconsider the content of your post. it is simply not true and not fair to the cruelty that we as tambram culture imposed.

i guess you have not seen the widowhood conversion scene of a pretty woman. i have. it is something to be ashamed of.

thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

....In fact that is the Pride in our Culture.


.

yes TSS, let me also describe below the 'pride of our culture'.. pray read it, and i am sure very many of your women ancestors too participated in this prideful action that i have had the misfortune of witnessing right in front of my eyes.

great tradition! you may be proud ot it TSS, but i am quite sure, heaven forbid, you would not do this 'proud tradition' on your own womenfolks - heaven forbid that situation may never happen, for maybe you would do it?

what happened mostly, till 50 years ago, was, the widow, was first shaved off her hair, went through the traumatic process of removing her thaali, given white clothes, shunned to the unseen corner of the house, considered a bad omen for any family functions, and even for her own son's or daughters' wedding relegated to a corner.

every tambram family has had its share of mottai widows, of all ages, sad to say.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

Exactly You are Right ji...
at the same time it is not only Followed in Brahmin Culture. In Non Brahmins too everyone followed the same thing...

In Royal Families it was told Sathi was performed...

Even then all elderly people will say at the Time of Marriage or any Religious rituals, " go and Namaskar the Athai Patti " even though she is a ," Mottai Paati ".

They may not be allowed for Rituals but they will also be given importance and not Completely ignored like what you say.

 

[amala]

Kunjuppu mama I think it is fashionable today to use women as a point of banter, flippancy, light hearted humour all bordering on misogyny. What i shall never understand is how us women tend to be our own worst enemies. Who needs men to diss us when our fellow women diss our gender at the drop of a hat.

You have always been a champion of womens causes. I realise that widowhood has had a profound impact on you. I think most of us are very lucky to have no witnesssed half the horrendous things you have with regards to widows. I wish my fellow women can have 1/2 the consideration you do as a man for us.

 

[kunjuppu]

Exactly You are Right ji...
at the same time it is not only Followed in Brahmin Culture. In Non Brahmins too everyone followed the same thing...

In Royal Families it was told Sathi was performed...

Even then all elderly people will say at the Time of Marriage or any Religious rituals, " go and Namaskar the Athai Patti " even though she is a ," Mottai Paati ".

They may not be allowed for Rituals but they will also be given importance and not Completely ignored like what you say.

TSS,

i think you miss my point. after disfiguriing the woman, there is no chance for her to have a normal life.

one namaskaram at the end of a marrriage is not even respect. it is more an insult than honour, i think.

after being forced to live as 'bad omen'.

i do not want you or anyone to talk about how we glorified women in the past, without accepting the criminal way we treated them. i am not talking about other castes here. i am talking about tamil brahmins and pattars like me.

ok?

 

[tbs]

Can you help out here:

Does bahuputrālābhaṃ come under Tat Purusha Dviguh Classification of Samaasa or something else?

Can you expand please and correct me if I am wrong.

hi renu akka...

which samasa is this....renu +akka= rekka....i think amala knows well....i like Rekka word.....LOL

regards
tbs

 

[Raji Ram]

...........i would request you, as an intelligent lady, to please reconsider the content of your post. it is simply not true and not fair to the cruelty that we as tambram culture imposed...........

Dear Sir,

I can understand your feelings well. My mother's grandma who was a pillar of support to the family was widowed

at the tender age of 18 and went through all the evil customs... We never saw her with hair. I have written about

her in my other thread.

In olden days a widow was not permitted to remarry. A man can marry soon after he looses his wife. What I find is

that even today, most widows choose to live alone and bring up their children. Most of the men are not like that.

That is why I said that the reason MAY BE........

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[Raji Ram]

............. I wish my fellow women can have 1/2 the consideration you do as a man for us.

You are 100% right Amala. In Chennai, women folk force me to see any widowed lady within 10 days of her

husband's death. If I miss that, I SHOULD NOT see her for one more year! I never bother about this. What will

happen if I console my friend after 10 days? Some women are the first enemies to other women and this is true.

 

[Nara]

....That is why I said that the reason MAY BE........

It is not women, they are but mere enforcers. The culprit is Sanatana Dharmam in its resplendent glory. When somebody talks about Dharma it is a safe bet he/she is actually talking about some sort of injustice....

 

[Raji Ram]

It is not women, they are but mere enforcers. The culprit is Sanatana Dharmam in its resplendent glory. When somebody talks about Dharma it is a safe bet he/she is actually talking about some sort of injustice....

Dear Prof. Sir,

I think men are more adventurous than women. They can take any challenge in life!! Again... MAY BE??

But, today women are more bold. They get married without the knowledge of their parents, right under their nose!

I heard of a girl who stayed with her sister and b i l, for about two years and only when her sister saw a thaali

in the girl's neck, did she know of her marriage! Reason given was this: The newly weds wanted to save money for

setting up their house. So they lived with their respective guardians and saved all their earnings for two years!

இது கதையல்ல; நிஜம்!

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[Nara]

Dear Mrs. RR,

On the one hand we have brave girls who know what they want, and are ready to go out and get it. At the same time, we also have men saying things like the following.

"I have also seen many Young widows in olden days lived alone without remarriage.
In fact that is the Pride in our Culture."

​

What sort of pride do these men experience from the misery of women. I am reminded of a line from the classic movie, A Streetcar Named Desire, spoken by a hypocritical woman living a life of lies, "The only unforgivable crime is deliberate cruelty." The treatment meted out to young widows of early to mid 20th century is nothing but deliberate cruelty, the only unforgivable sin.

I think Amala was pointing out that it is women who shower this deliberate cruelty upon uppity women, with the men standing behind, cheering them on, not getting their hands dirty.

I agree with Amala, but IMO, this does not tell the whole story.

My point was, even these women who take the lead in criticizing women who dare to think for themselves, are themselves victims of Brahmnical male-dominated indoctrination.

If women are allowed to occupy lead positions within the institutions of Brahminical orthodoxy, the days of male-dominated Brahminism within the ranks of Brahmins can be numbered.

So, while I agree with Amala in a narrow sense, I just can't hold these women responsible for the endemic cyst long nourished by male-dominated ideology of Brahminism.

Cheers!

 

[amala]

Dear Nara mama,

I was speaking very generally and was thinking more about "office jokes" and even in this forum where it seems trendy to diss women and label them as "difficult", "troublesome" etc and all this in the guise of "humour". And everyone especially fellow women as well are on a roll. All it takes is one person to ask hey don't you think women are difficult and boy does it roll. I wasn't at all thinking about widows. thats an entirely different ballgame!

 

[Nara]

... and all this in the guise of "humour". And everyone especially fellow women as well are on a roll.

Amala, I know what you are referring to, exactly. My idea of humor does not include mocking the powerless. Alas, that is the only kind that tickles the humor sense for some here.

I wanted to shine the bright light on those self-righteous, tradition-keeping busybodies, who, in turn, are victims themselves of this pernicious meme, one that has established itself so deep in the psyche of humans, that exorcising it is not going to be easy by a long shot.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

hi renu akka...

which samasa is this....renu +akka= rekka....i think amala knows well....i like Rekka word.....LOL

regards
tbs

Hey TBS,

Shouldn't that be a Sandhi?
Anyway it does not fit in any Sandhi Rule too.

 

[Raji Ram]

....................
If women are allowed to occupy lead positions within the institutions of Brahminical orthodoxy, the days of male-dominated Brahminism within the ranks of Brahmins can be numbered................

Dear Prof. Sir,

Do you think only brahmin society is male dominated? What about other castes in Hindus and other religions?

I know many families (not brahmins) who do not allow the widows in their house wear color sarees, especially

if they happen to be senior citizens! I think brahmins are much better now a days. I wrote about how one young

widowed D I L was treated by her M I L under the pretext of maintaining their custom, sometime back, in another

thread. So please do not blame the brahmins alone, Sir! It is the male dominated society of India. That is one of

the reasons why the young girls wish to break ALL traditions.

Regards............

 

[renuka]

I wouldnt want to blame Sanathana Dharma becos its we humans who alter it according to our whims and fancies.

On a personal note I dont think its a pride for anyone to suffer be it woman or man.
Tell me what pride does it do to a culture if people suffer in silence?

I dont really think woman of yesteryears were so called "better" than woman of this modern era its just that they had no one to back them up in anyway and risk being even killed if they even had thoughts like what I wrote here.

They never had police those days but rather a group of men who have the Banyan tree as their Dharma Nilayam and pass judgements according to their hormonal spikes for the day.

I feel rules that are imposed on women should also be imposed on men not being feminist here but rather being fair.
Why isn't a womans emotional needs ever taken into account?

Sometimes I am amused we are the same Hindus who sing Tat Tvam Asi,Aham Brahmaasmi but still see so much difference between male and female.
We are the ones who go around saying that the Body is Only a Garment but attach too much importance to the human body finally.

There is no use if we have Rivers named after women but women in the nation cry more tears than Ganga Jamuna Saraswati put togather .

 

[Nara]

... I think brahmins are much better now a days. I wrote about how one young

Dear Mrs. RR, I am only familiar with Brahmin families. Further, I know that the theoretical/intellectual justification for this comes from Brahmnical Dharma Shasthras, the dharma that is touted as sanatana.

Besides, I am sure you will agree with me that it is no consolation that some NBs also do this.

One more thing, there are a lot of so called NB communities who do not follow this. It would be nice if Brahmins officially reject this barbaric tradition in stead of leaving it to the brave girls and individual families to deal with it.

Mrs RR, from what you have written in this forum, I think you can be a leader on this issue, giving aid and comfort to young girls coming of age in this male-dominated sanatana dharma environment.

best regards ...

 

[biswa]

Wait, how did the topic of this thread change so quickly from "Women domination" to "Male domination of women"?