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women domination

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Shri Ananth,

Though the above post is addressed to Shri Kunjuppu, since there is a reference therein to "to an earlier one about kings and Gods", and since you have not specified which posters you have in mind, I think my interfering will be permitted.

I agree that we we live in the cultural modes and faith of our lifetimes. But here we have to keep in mind that even during the times of Rama (king-God), Swami Raghavendra (Saint, now deified!) or Mohandas Gandhi (glorified by history as the Mahatma of the twentieth century), the cultural norms required a man to look after his family (wife, children and aged parents) first and foremost and to adopt vaanaprastha and/or samnyaasa only after all his responsibilities to the family were duly completed and the person had the good health required for an ascetic's life.

Of course people like Sankara, Ramana, etc., took to sanyaasa very early in life; they did not contract a family through marriage and did not produce children. Sankara's duty was only towards his mother and there can be difference of opinion as to whether he discharged that duty properly, but he did not drag in an unsuspecting girl in the prime of her youth to be his wife, enjoy family life (sexual pleasure) with her, produce some children, and then one sudden day, leave her in the lurch and make grandiose spiritual claims.

Now, in the case of Rama, he was a case of indecisiveness that he would act on hearing some common man's gossip with his wife, without even consulting the eminent gurus like Vasishta (his kulaguru), Sadaananda (Janaka's kulaguru) or Vishwaamitra (who taught him many things including the balaa and athibalaa mantras). Therefore, whoever wrote Uttarakaanda - this is now generally held to be a later addition to the original Ramayana of Vaalmeeki - might have had a score to settle with the Ramaayanists and wanted to paint Sita as a personality towering above even Rama, imho. What Raghavendra did cannot be justified except on the premise that the Madhva matham of Sudheendratirtha wanted a successor and Raghavendra felt it to be acceptable, eventhough his decision resulted in the suicide of his wife of less than 25 years age. I, therefore, hold the firm view that Raghavendra's action cannot be justified under any circumstances and those who value women's role in society, should boycott him and his ashram.

MKG was an abnormal person imo. He was definitely obsessed with sex which he covered as "brahmacharya" and did many things which will shame any ordinary person. He is better not discussed because people will not be able to evaluate him as yet another ordinary human being and the discussions may result in yet another flare-up. Nevertheless, even during MKG's times the general rule was that if a man gets married and takes a wife, then it is his duty to provide for her and the children born of such wedlock until the children are adults. The case of the irresponsible tabra which I have mentioned in my earlier post, happened during the early 1900's and is thus contemporaneous to MKG. So, we can compare the two.

Last but not least, you state, "All of us are products of History and economics of the time we live in and cultural modes,faith are greatly influenced by them." I do not think we can refer to the "history of our times"; we make the history of our times through our thought and action. The "history of our times" will follow after our time, and will become "history" for our succeeding generations. The history which we follow is the cumulative result of our understanding of all the past history and what we choose to adopt therefrom during our times. Please let me know if my above understanding is wrong.

Dear Sangom,

Agree with you. I am myself a great admirer of Gandhi. All I am saying is we need to try and take the positives from the Great thinkers life. There is no point in judging them at this point of time. Even for a current incident it is difficult to ascertain the motives and intentions and more so if it had happened in the past. And one may differ on certain views even with the person one admires. For example I do not agree with Gandhi's view on economy or sex but the wonderful message we get from this great man is the message of love , non agressive approach to life and above all the sacrifices he has made. Imagine a 77 year old man walking alone in villages of Bengal amidst religious riots and violence trying to douse the fire of hatred with message of peace and love and succeeding. I cant think of any other human coming anywhere close to this. Mount Batten referred to him as one man army. He was much more. Army does not spread love in a war but only submissiveness from those defeated.

I have read most of his writings and what I understand is his marriage with Kasturba began in a traditional manner with the male playing the dominant role as was to be expected considering their background. However in the later stages the relationship became more balanced and towards the end many a times Kasturba playing the mentoring role. Relationships, I suppose, are very complicated and difficult to understand in all its facets.

I am digressing. My view is from every great figure in history there are strong positives which we can try to emulate and ignore what we perceive as weaknesses and avoid being critical and so also from mythology.

Have a great day!!!!
 
ananth,

i tend somewhat to be unsure: should a person be judged by the mores of the times that he lived? or by what i think as absolute values?

truth, compassion, kindness, egalitarianism, liberty, fraternity - these are universal values. timeless.

even today, i forget the number of tambrams who swear by manu. conveniently they ignore manu's dictat's re women or shudras.

the same goes for gandhi or any leader of such magnitude.

what gandhi did, in terms of winning for independence or his efforts for communal peace - these are monumental achievements. these cannot and
should not be erased or ignored. at the same time, all i am saying, is that as an husband by his own admission, he was a poor example. even
poorer performer as a father.

it was not easy being father to the nation, and father to a family. one could do only one or the other, and gandhi chose the country. and faced
the consequences and heartaches by harilal's behaviour, which was pure rebellion and anger against the neglect of his father. as gandh's eldest
son, he had claims to his father's attention, time and love, which he did not get. only lectures, which he came to hate.

that is all. and nothing more. ok? all it shows, is that no one is perfect. gandhi too had his warts. any sensible person among us, will ignore the
warts, and accept gandhi for his achievements. to do so otherwise, would be an admission of our own stupidity. and ignorance.

as indians we owe gandhi. and owe more than what we can comprehend. but still, that does not make gandhi a perfect human being.

ok?
 
ananth,

i tend somewhat to be unsure: should a person be judged by the mores of the times that he lived? or by what i think as absolute values?

truth, compassion, kindness, egalitarianism, liberty, fraternity - these are universal values. timeless.

even today, i forget the number of tambrams who swear by manu. conveniently they ignore manu's dictat's re women or shudras.

the same goes for gandhi or any leader of such magnitude.

what gandhi did, in terms of winning for independence or his efforts for communal peace - these are monumental achievements. these cannot and
should not be erased or ignored. at the same time, all i am saying, is that as an husband by his own admission, he was a poor example. even
poorer performer as a father.

it was not easy being father to the nation, and father to a family. one could do only one or the other, and gandhi chose the country. and faced
the consequences and heartaches by harilal's behaviour, which was pure rebellion and anger against the neglect of his father. as gandh's eldest
son, he had claims to his father's attention, time and love, which he did not get. only lectures, which he came to hate.

that is all. and nothing more. ok? all it shows, is that no one is perfect. gandhi too had his warts. any sensible person among us, will ignore the
warts, and accept gandhi for his achievements. to do so otherwise, would be an admission of our own stupidity. and ignorance.

as indians we owe gandhi. and owe more than what we can comprehend. but still, that does not make gandhi a perfect human being.

ok?

Dear Kunjuppu,

Bang on. I agree with you fully. No human and probably God is perfect. Emulate the positives and avoid the negatives.

As regards Universal value, dont you think truth,kindness,compassion, liberty had a different connotation during Bronze age,Pharos, Roman civilization and today.

Have a great Day
 
Every man knows that his boss at home is his wife. So, replace 'boss' in the following with 'wife' and accordingly use female pronoun.

When you take a long time, you're slow.
When your boss takes a long time, he's thorough.

When you don't do it, you're lazy.
When your boss doesn't do it, he's too busy.

When you make a mistake, you're an idiot.
When your boss makes a mistake, he's only human.

When doing something without being told, you're overstepping your authority.
When your boss does the same thing, that's initiative.

When you take a stand, you're being bull-headed.
When your boss does it, he's being firm.

When you overlooked a rule of etiquette, you're being rude.
When your boss skips a few rules, he's being original.






Woman: There is no life without wife
Man: Wife is a knife that ends my life
 
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Amala mentioned about gender bias in language. Look at Tamizh:

'Kanjan' means miser but 'kanji' means porridge
'Vanji' means woman but 'Vanja(ga)n' means treacherous
'kodi', a term used to describe a young girl, means creeper; 'kodaa' means not giving
'idaiyaal' means a woman of (slim) waist; 'idayan' means a shepherd


And last but not the least, 'Ammaa' in Tamil Nadu is reverred word, especially in today's politics.
'Ayya' is looked at with contempt/suspicion even in TB forum itself (Ravi has experience)
 
Dear Haridas,

you wrote :
Every man knows that his boss at home is his wife.

Really? I dont think so.I feel it would be a very unbalanced home for one partner to dominate.
What is there to dominate so much?Is life all that complicated?

Its just get up in the morning,get to work,child goes to school,come back from work and get ready to face another day.If going shopping he buys what he needs with his money and she buys what she needs with her money(in case of earning wife).In buying items for child and household..money is shared 50%-50%.

In major decisions like buying properties etc..pros and cons are discussed with inputs from elders who have more experience handling such matters.

This sums up life for most of us isnt it?

What is there to dominate in this?Dominating wastes lots of energy and effort and you end up aging fast.
 
Renu,

I admit that I gave my wife to take any decisions and I will abide by her.

I can say it proudly with no difficulty,because I am having Political Commitments (I am in BJP),

As I am a VRS Railway Employee and a Unionist many Employees will come and approach me regularly,even from Far Off places,

As I am operating Travels Business,I am having my daily Commitments with Drivers and Vehicles,

As I am doing Real Estate business also as additional,I need to spend a small portion of Time there also,

So I am proud of saying that I gave her the right to take every decision in our daily walks of our life.

Because I will take wrong decisions ,not some Times but many Times.
 
Renu,

I admit that I gave my wife to take any decisions and I will abide by her.

I can say it proudly with no difficulty,because I am having Political Commitments (I am in BJP),

As I am a VRS Railway Employee and a Unionist many Employees will come and approach me regularly,even from Far Off places,

As I am operating Travels Business,I am having my daily Commitments with Drivers and Vehicles,

As I am doing Real Estate business also as additional,I need to spend a small portion of Time there also,

So I am proud of saying that I gave her the right to take every decision in our daily walks of our life.

Because I will take wrong decisions ,not some Times but many Times.


Dear Sir,

May be becos I am Libran,Librans are known for diplomacy and also undecisiveness so I guess I prefer collective decisions and prefer to share and come to a conclusion.

As a working woman I am busy at work working 12 hours a day and also my husband works some 9 hours a day so we divide our responsibilities so that we can manage to cover everything.
Like he be in charge of some things and I be in charge of somethings.

But i think i really feel uncomfortable to dominate cos its very tiring and energy consuming.I have seen many of my fellow female doctors who try to dominate things at work and at home and they end up with most responsibilities.
When we share work get divided by half and mistakes are seldom made.

It nice to play "damsel in distress" once in a while..you can actually relax.
 
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Renu,

I admit that I gave my wife to take any decisions and I will abide by her.

I can say it proudly with no difficulty,because I am having Political Commitments (I am in BJP),

As I am a VRS Railway Employee and a Unionist many Employees will come and approach me regularly,even from Far Off places,

As I am operating Travels Business,I am having my daily Commitments with Drivers and Vehicles,

As I am doing Real Estate business also as additional,I need to spend a small portion of Time there also,

So I am proud of saying that I gave her the right to take every decision in our daily walks of our life.

Because I will take wrong decisions ,not some Times but many Times.


tss,

i understand renu's post quite differently from yours.

i think, what renu, talks of, is dignity, respect, willingness to share the utmost of informations including moola with your partner. the business of running a household and raising children is a partnership.

i see in you, a fair division of labour. handing over to mrs tss, areas that you cannot, unable, unwilling or unskilled. which is still a partnership, of a kind.

my own household, notwithstanding my jibes at mrs k and the occassional reference to the proverbial rolling pin, my household management, is one of harmonious partnership. unlike renu, ours is also a joint account, right from the start. many of our friends, have separate accounts for the spouses, but i felt, there need to be no such arrangement between me and mrs k, right from the day she joined me in canada.

it is indeed to a husband's disadvantage, these days, not to confide in his wife, the details, not only of his salary, but also his investments, pension, assets and all relevant financial details. there is no guarantee for life, and if he pops up dead in any instance, the widow should not be put through the agony of wondering about her financial security or where her assets lay.

also, judging by some of my female relatives, the ladies are pretty savvy in investing, and can probably best their husbands, re picking out winners in the stock market.

one of the best financially successful couples i know - is a sindhi girl married to a bangla deshi guy. these immigrated from dubai with some moneys, and thanks to her smartness, parlayed this into leverage buying of several residential apartment buildings in toronto, one after another. without her, he is a zero. so, my caution to the hubbies - consult and do not discount the pennjaathi's advice.:)

tss, i notice that you say it with pride, i think, 'I am proud of saying that I gave her the right to take every decision in our daily walks of our life.' - personally i would not be so emptily self importantantly but really arrogant sounding... for we men, on many occassions are fools, and a statement like this, only reinforces it. i think. :)

let us men, learn to be more modest. for starters.
 
tss,

i understand renu's post quite differently from yours.

i think, what renu, talks of, is dignity, respect, willingness to share the utmost of informations including moola with your partner. the business of running a household and raising children is a partnership.

i see in you, a fair division of labour. handing over to mrs tss, areas that you cannot, unable, unwilling or unskilled. which is still a partnership, of a kind.

my own household, notwithstanding my jibes at mrs k and the occassional reference to the proverbial rolling pin, my household management, is one of harmonious partnership. unlike renu, ours is also a joint account, right from the start. many of our friends, have separate accounts for the spouses, but i felt, there need to be no such arrangement between me and mrs k, right from the day she joined me in canada.

it is indeed to a husband's disadvantage, these days, not to confide in his wife, the details, not only of his salary, but also his investments, pension, assets and all relevant financial details. there is no guarantee for life, and if he pops up dead in any instance, the widow should not be put through the agony of wondering about her financial security or where her assets lay.

also, judging by some of my female relatives, the ladies are pretty savvy in investing, and can probably best their husbands, re picking out winners in the stock market.

one of the best financially successful couples i know - is a sindhi girl married to a bangla deshi guy. these immigrated from dubai with some moneys, and thanks to her smartness, parlayed this into leverage buying of several residential apartment buildings in toronto, one after another. without her, he is a zero. so, my caution to the hubbies - consult and do not discount the pennjaathi's advice.:)

tss, i notice that you say it with pride, i think, 'I am proud of saying that I gave her the right to take every decision in our daily walks of our life.' - personally i would not be so emptily self importantantly but really arrogant sounding... for we men, on many occassions are fools, and a statement like this, only reinforces it. i think. :)

let us men, learn to be more modest. for starters.


Perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

This is the position in India, in most of the households, whether the wife is a working woman or not,

if the couples have crossed 50 years!

For those who can read Tamil, I am copy pasting my write-up from my other thread:


விந்தையான சராசரி இந்தியக் கணவர்கள்…..

இந்தியக் கணவர்கள் வீட்டுக்கு வீடு செய்துவரும்
விந்தைகள் சொல்லவே இக்கவிதை மலர்ந்து வரும்!

பகலிரவு பாராது இல்லாளே உழைத்திடுவாள் – இவர்
பகலிரவு பாராது கண்ட நேரம் உறங்கிடுவார்! (Only on holidays, if in service!)

காலை வேளை ஒரு புன்னகை செய்யவும் மறந்திடுவார்;
காலைக்காபி தன் கையில் தர எதிர்பார்த்திடுவார்!

“உனக்கு வயசாச்சு!” எனப் பிரகடனம் செய்திடுவார்;
தனக்கு வயது ஏறுவதை சொன்னால் வைதிடுவார்! (most of the 'seniors')

நாட்டு நடப்புக்களை மணிக்ணக்காய்ப் பேசிடுவார்;
வீட்டு நடப்புக்களைச் செவிமடுக்க மறுத்திடுவார்! (wife is the BOSS of the house!)

மராமத்துப் பணிகள் பற்றிப் பேச ஆரம்பித்தால்,
பேராபத்து வந்தது போல் வேறுபுறம் போய்விடுவார்! (it is her headache!)

முழுப் பொறுப்புக்களையும் துணைவி தோளில் ஏற்றி,
முழுச் சுதந்திரம் கொடுத்ததாக ஓயாமல் நினைத்திடுவார்! (this is FREEDOM!)

ஓய்வு நாட்களில் இளவயதில் சுற்றுலா வர மாட்டார்;
ஓய்வு பெற்ற பின் செலவுக்கு அஞ்சி சுற்றுலா செல்லார்! (money saver!)

புதிதாக எதையும் செய்ய மனது வைக்க மாட்டார்; ( I am ME attitude!)
இனிதாய் வாழ்க்கைமுறை மாற்ற முனைய மாட்டார்!

தனக்குப் பிடித்தவர் சாப்பிடுவதை சாதனையாக்கி மகிழ்வார்;
தன் கரம் பிடித்தவளின் சாதனைகளை “நக்கல்” செய்து இகழ்வார்! (sense of humor!)

வறுமைக் கோட்டுக்குக் கீழ் வாழும் ஏழை, தன் துணைவியின்
பெருமை பற்றிக் கூறிக் காவிப்பல் காட்டிடுவான்!

பெருமை மிக்க குடும்பத்தில் பிறந்த இந்தியக் கணவர்கள்
பெருமை மிக்க மனையாளின் அருமை ஏன் உணர்வதில்லை?

மனைவி அமைவது இறைவன் கொடுத்த வரமென அறிந்தும்,
துணைவியின் ஏற்றத்தை ஏற்று, ஏன் புகழ்வதில்லை? :tape2: (to avoid the comment 'henpecked'!)

My new comments within brackets.
 
Madam Raji,

Your article is too much of Mis exaggeration and Mis propaganda about average India Kanavargal.

I have seen in many houses that Even Old Couples are behaving like Appuswamy and Seetha Paaty even now.

So please recall your Opinion Please.
 
....I have seen in many houses that Even Old Couples are behaving like Appuswamy and Seetha Paaty even now.
TSS, would you please consider writing about your experiences with Appu and Seetha. We can even have a poll to see which of the two views is closer to reality, if either. I say "if either" because Mrs. RR's post was a parody (I think?), but yours is a serious one.

So please recall your Opinion Please.
TSS, I would like to request the opposite from Mrs. RR please give us more and put these witless kanavars in their silly place.

Cheers!
 
Madam Raji,

Your article is too much of Mis exaggeration and Mis propaganda about average India Kanavargal.

I have seen in many houses that Even Old Couples are behaving like Appuswamy and Seetha Paaty even now.

So please recall your Opinion Please.

TSS,

i see no reason why mrs RR should rescind.

look at your own post #85. it is a perfect reflection of male chauvinism. as if mrs TSS was 'waiting' for you to give 'permission' for her role in the house, and she should be 'grateful' for the same.

the word missing is 'sensitivity'.

womenfolks and just like us men. they too love kindness, understanding, help in the house and above all, willingly participating or volunteering when not asked, in the household chores. by that i mean, cutting vegetables, using the thodappam, helping out with the laundry, cleaning the bathrooms and above all cleaning up after each food session, be it breakfast, lunch, dinner or virundhu.

most of the men who immigrate here, to canada, do not even know how to boil water, let alone make coffee.

btw appusamy was not all that a loving husband. if i remember right, he was a flirt and had a penchant for getting into troubles, from which seetha patti pulled him out.

believe it or not, there is a website dedicated to these two characters. awesome!!

welcome to appusami.com
 
@Raji Mdm..

ha ha...sari kaduppula irkara mathiri theriudu...veetlium ippadi thaan kavithai eluthi nogadippingala avra...:spy:
 
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................
So please recall your Opinion Please.
This is not an exaggeration Sir! I am going to be a senior citizen by middle of next year and I have written only

about விந்தையான சராசரி இந்தியக் கணவர்கள்….. The caption suggests that there ARE good husbands who take

good
care of their family. I have also noticed that the wife's talents and the average behaviour of the husband are

inversely proportional!! This write-up is the outcome after observing many of the talented ladies in my circle of

relatives and friends.

:grouphug:
 
@Raji Mdm..

ha ha...sari kaduppula irkara mathiri theriudu...veetlium ippadi thaan kavithai eluthi nogadippingala avra...:spy:

For your info... My Ram does not read my poems! :peace:
If you have time, please go thro' my thread எண்ண அலைகள் and read post # 5 and enjoy!! :ranger:
 
...........

Your article is too much of Mis exaggeration and Mis propaganda about average India Kanavargal........
Not to worry, Sir!! Here is one about some Indian wives... for your consolation, form my desk...

ஆனந்த ஜோதி பரவட்டும்…

‘நினைப்பதெல்லாம் நடந்துவிட்டால் தெய்வம் ஏதுமில்லை;
நடந்ததையே நினைத்திருந்தால் அமைதி என்றுமில்லை!’

வண்ணத்திரை இசை வரிகளேயானாலும்
கண்ணெனப் போற்ற வேண்டிய உண்மை வரிகள்!

வெந்ததைத் தின்று, சோர்வுடன் உறங்கி,
இந்திரியங்களை அடக்கினேன் எனச் சொல்லி,

புன்சிரிப்பும் இல்லாமல், அன்புமொழி பேசாமல்,
உன்மத்தர் போல் வாழ்வது என்ன வாழ்வு?

தனி மரம் தோப்பாகாது என நன்கு உணரவேண்டும்;
இனி வரும் நாட்களில் ஆனந்த ஜோதி பரவ வேண்டும்!

உற்ற துணையுடன் நட்புடன் பழகவேண்டும்;
குற்றம் குறை மறந்து இனிதாய் வாழ வேண்டும்!

ஒரே போல ஒரே கையில் ஐந்து விரல்களே இருக்காது!
ஒரே போல நற்குணத்தை எவரிடமும் காண இயலாது!

ஒரே காசில் பூவும் தலையும் உள்ளது – அதுபோல
ஒரே மனிதனுள் குணமும், கோபமும் உள்ளது!

குணம் நாடிக் குற்றமும் நாடி அவற்றுள்
மிகைநாடி மிக்கக் கொளல் – என்பது வள்ளுவம்!

சுற்றம் என்பது ஆண்டவன் நமக்கு அளிப்பது – அதன்
குற்றங்களை மறந்திடுவோம்! குணங்களைப் போற்றிடுவோம்!

குணம் போற்றிக் குற்றம் மறந்து வாழ்ந்தால்,
கணம் கூடத் துன்பம் நம்மை வந்து தீண்டாது!

எத்தனை ஆண்டுகள் வாழ்வோமென எவருக்கும் தெரிவதில்லை!
அத்தனை ஆண்டுகளும் அன்புடன் வாழாவிடில் பெருமையில்லை!

தனிமைதான் மனிதனின் எதிரிகளில் மிகப் பெரிது;
தனிமையில் இன்பம் கண்டால், மீண்டு வருதல் அரிது!

சுற்றத்தார் நலம்தானே முதன்மையான இன்பம்!
சுற்றத்தாரை வருத்தி நின்றால் வந்திடுமே துன்பம்!

ஏற்றத்தாழ்வு எல்லோர் வாழ்விலும் வருவது உண்மை!
குற்ற உணர்வின்றி அதை ஏற்று வாழ்தல் திண்மை!

இல்லத்தில் இன்பம் பெருக இன்முகமே முதன்மை!
இல்லத்தரசி நல்லுடையில் இன்முகம் காட்டுதல் கடமை! :nod:
 
............
TSS, I would like to request the opposite from Mrs. RR please give us more and put these witless kanavars in their silly place.
............
Dear Prof. Sir,

I have already posted the write-up from my other thread, which I had posted soon after joining this forum, here!

Let some 'kaNavargaL' enjoy reading it!! :dance:

Regards,
Raji Ram
 
Madam RR,

I said my opinion only on Jovial Grounds and not in a motive with insist to Recall.

As per your Quote you are about 7 years elder to me. You are one of my akka.

Here we are spending our valuable time in Worthy exchange of Views and gaining more and more Knowledge and Experience.
 
....I said my opinion only on Jovial Grounds and not in a motive with insist to Recall.

..............

Ok, Sir! I just record my views about people who are in my circle, in this vast world... Thats it!

Hope you enjoyed reading my second write up also. One of my in-laws, who was upset about her

son's love marriage, started behaving like a 'sanyaasini', sitting in a room, meditating, soon after

she finished her cooking, everyday! You can imagine the plight of her husband! Ram and I went for

'counselling' (!!) and on my return to SingArach Chennai by train, I wrote the second write up.
 
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