hi folks,
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Dear Fellow-Members:
I have reproduced below (with minor editing) an email received by me from Mr. Dhinakaran, Secretary of ******* situated in Madurai. Kindly note that these are views/comments and opinions of Mr. Dinakaran and not that of Siva or myself, although we have commented on may of the issues and points presented by Mr. Dinakaran. Kindly consider also some of Mr. Dinakaran's comments and views as that of his own personally, and not reflecting the official views of *******, in some areas. Please do not indulge in personal bashing of someone holding personal views and opinions
, instead you can always "respectfully beg to differ" with them and those of other opinions expressed in these columns! This subject matter is going to raise lot of hair raising and hair splitting opinions, views and divergent comments from the boys' parents, particularly and I hasten to caution
moderation,
moderation, moderation! with your postings.
Most shocking is the revelation about the very steep inverse ratio between the boys and girls: 7
: 1 available in the marriageable age!! Since the statistics is emerging from ******* itself, I will accept it as such, not contest it! I also spoke to Mr. Dhinakaran this morning and he has confirmed that for every 7,000 horoscopes of boys registered with *******, there only 1,000 horoscopes of girls registered, so that is how he came up with a 7 : 1 ratio; I believe it is a true reflection of more authentic collection of information -- not pulling "a rabbit out of the air!" (I reckon the age of the girls is between 23-35, although many girls remain unmarried after the age of 35! I had suspected it (the ratio) to be 5
: 1 but this is even a larger ratio (5
: 1) than I was given to understand through another "hearsay" of a member of another Forum! I would like to add my own comments to that of Mr. Dhinakar, with respect to situations prevailing in the U.S.A. in matrimony!
- First of all the ratio of boys versus girls in the U.S. at least does not seem to be high! I do not want to put out any statistics that is not accurate or flawed but we have compiled a List of Boys and Girls living in many of the States (within the U.S., State wise, such as California (Northern -- Bay area and Southern -- Los Angeles, San Diego), New York/New Jersey, North East corridor, Boston and generally new England States, (excluding New York and New Jersey), Virginia/DC/Baltimore, MD and other States individually and my own compilation does not reveal such large "inverse ratio" disparities of boys and girls in the U.s. Now, I will comment on Mr. Dhinakaran's email to me: Again, these are our (mine and Sivasankaran's) PERSONAL comments and views ONLY, please respect us for expressing our personal thoughts and comments. You can always respectfully "differ"
- Mr. Dhinakaran seems to be right in this area --the average age of boys getting married certainly seems right around 33-35 in India. This is particularly true with respect to boys getting married, living in the U.S., if they get lucky at all and overcome all of the barriers, that we will briefly touch upon, there can always be some minor exceptions to this rule. We are talking about generalities here!
Following are some of the causes for marriages getting delayed of boys and girls living in the U.S.
- transitioning from H1B to Green Card which is taking much much longer than it used to be; I understand that currently the Immigration Department is issuing Green Cards under the EB3 classification for July, 2005 and it is moving approximately 3-4 moths per year!
There are different categories under this EB preference:
(a) EB-1 is for the highest intellectual to be given a Green Card living in a foreign country; let us say that NASA wanted the world's best scientists
to work for it, they can request the President's office for the issuance of a GC to this person living in a foreign country and he can come over to
the U.S. with a Green Card in a few weeks
; rarely does the Administration use this preferential category; it is current at all given times!
(b) EB-2 is the category which is issued to PhDs from the U.S. seeking a green card; this is under the expedited GC issuance category and takes
anywhere between 9-15 months; the one thing nice abut this preferential GC is that if a boy is a PhD or girl has a PhD, if they are marrying, their
spouses who may be on a H1b (not even transitioning to GC) will get Green Cards right away! So seek matrimonial alliances with boys and girls
qualified with a PhD; if you are a PhD, do not apply for a GC until you are married, because "you get two GCs for the price of one"
(c) EB-3 preference is the category that is applicable to all H1B visa holders transitioning into GCs, issued to all applicants who have Master's
Degree from the U.S This is the most clogged up preference category with over 100,000 pending applications by Indians, with a quota of about
5,000 GCs under this category; issued each year. July 2005 is the date for which applicant are getting GCs now; it moves at the rate of one
quarter per year!
(d) EB-4 preference is for those who have applied for the GC from H1B, but do not have a Master's Degree from the U.S. This is really a slow-po!
- When I say July 2005 is the date for EB-3 category, (this is not the date on which your son or daughter made the application to the Immigration Department for the H1B-GC transitioning), it is the date given to an applicant after the Labor Certification has been processed and accepted and an applicant is notified of his or her date; by the Immigration Department and that date is currently at July, 2005! Please note that the Immigration is issuing about 5,000 visas a year to people of Indian origin, for transition from H1B to GC to all Indians who have petitioned for GC under this category! Reportedly there are over 100,000 such applications from boys and girls of Indian origin living in the U.S. seeking such Green Cards (transitioning from H1B-GC). From this you can guestimate when you will get your Green Card, provided the Immigration rules don't change!
- At this rate, those who have filed for H1B-GC transitions within the last 2 years or are just thinking of filing, will not get their Green Cards until at least the year 2020, if not longer! unless they have a PhD and come under EB-2. So I am saying to all the boys and girls who are just now getting ready to file for H1B-GC transitions, to think about or have a Plan "B" regarding your marriage, married life, because the "waiting end game" for both partners or either partner is going to be causing mental agony and grief, for a very extended period of time, 10 years at least, if not much, much longer, with the waiting end-game for a Green Card!
- due to very difficult economic conditions prevailing in the U.S., it is not easy to leave one's job from one city and State (within the U.S.) and move to another location (city and state) where the boy/girl may be living) with a marriage! Portability (ability to relocate or move) of boys and girls with a marriage is virtually at "zero"! Moreover, boys and girls transitioning from H1B to GC, are insecure about leaving their jobs and moving to another location with a marriage, because they will lose their number in line and may have to re-initiate the entire transition process for a GC with the move! All over again! Moreover, with the economic conditions being what they are, reportedly H1B vfisa holders are not that preferred in employment offers by large MNCs, since they are getting Permanent Residents and U.S. citizens to seek and accept those jobs; MNCs are also morally feeling a responsibility to the Society, at large! to hire Caucasian American citizens; please don't quote one or two isolated situations, if some one got a job recently, because what I have stated has been portrayed to me by a larger number of Indian H1Bs origins living in the U.S.
- Green card holders cannot marry and bring their brides from India,because the waiting time for the spouse to join her husband is over 25 years.
- U.S. citizen boys and girls, as a rule, DO NOT wish to get married to H1B, Student visa holders! Certainly there are very minor exceptions!
- Problems associated with J1 visa holders from easily getting their visas converted to a H4 Dependent Visa with a marriage.
- Parents of boys and girls are still relentless in their pursuit of Iyengars-Iyengars, Iyers-to-Iyers, Madhwas seeking Madhwas. Although by far I hear a general acceptance of marriages within S.I. Brahmin community largely, Siva's and my efforts are largely being hurt in this area, as we seek to pair an Iyengar boy to an Iyer Girl.
- Non acceptance of Naksthrams like Ayilyam, Moolam, Kettai and Pooradam and we are being quickly shut out of of our introduction conversations by a standard statement from the boys' and girls' parents to the effect "but that Birth Star is not on the list of suitable matching Naksthrams, given to us by our Astrologer", even though all these 4 birth stars have Uthama Naksthra Porutham with that of boys. that we are trying to introduce! There are at least a dozen girls, very beautiful, tall, well poised, and very attractive on our lists living in the U.S., with birth stars like Ayilyam, Moolam, Kettai and Pooradam, that our efforts to pair them with boys, are simply taking us no where, even under these most difficult prevailing conditions, where the girl is even willing to relocate!
- I would like to cite a specific case in this area; a Father of a boy who is currently visiting with his son, in the U.S., a green card holder, seeking an alliance,sought my assistance, in matrimony and I virtually gave him over a dozen leads of girls, suitable for his son of girls who were willing to relocate with a marriage to the boy's city and state -- he rejected over half a dozen of the alliances presented to him because the Naksthram of the girl was Ayilyam, Pooradam, Moolam and Kettai; the rest of the 3-4 he stated that upon doing a full blown horoscopes matching they did not tally! A couple of girls the boy did not like for her looks, height, physical appearance and all that. A few others he rejected because it happened to be Sagothram. This boy is a GC holder and cannot marry from India and bring in his bride; now he is so frustrated, about going no where with his son's marraige, that he called me up a few days ago to say, "Srinivasan, suggest to me any girl, from other Varnas (Punjabis and Gujaratis included) that you know of, that will marry my son and relocate to his city and State. Such is the extent of frustration that parents are going through to get their sons married in the U.S. that a man who rejected a Brahmin girl for Moolam, Ayilyam, Kettai and Pooradam, for being Sagothram, for horoscopes not matching, upon doing a full blown horoscope match, is ready to seek a varan from other Varna!
- Boys who are working in the U.S., with just a B.E. degree or a B.S. and MCA from India are shunned by girls who have a B.E. from India and a Masters Degree or PhD from the U.S. This is as it should be, so natural, as noted in my acceptability criteria of grading "Pathu Vidha Portuaham in Jaadagam and 13 Other Poruthams in this Modern Day and Age!" circulated previously; if you have not received it or read it, please email me! And I will mail it to you! So many boys and girls living/working in the U.S. with an undergrad education from India, continue to remain unmarried; parents of the boys in such cases, should seek an alliance from India; otherwise, re-arrange the boy's career moves that will take him to India, get him married and then try to re-enter the U.S., or another foreign country! This may be easier said than done!
- Girls who have graduated from good Ivy league schools such as Stanford, Yale, Princeton, NYU, MIT, Harvard, are simply not willing and ready to get married to boys who have graduated from medicore schools in the U.S, not the top ranking schools; these girls are looking for boys graduating from Ivy league schools, just like in India, an IIT'an would seek to marry another IIT''an, or someone from Indian Statistical Institute, Indian Intitute of Management, Indian Science Institute, etc. that is how indepth U.S. educated girls are seeking a matching varan.
- This is also reflected in many of the girls now in India with a B.E. degree seeking someone from the U.S. with a Masters Degree that has returned to India for good! A B.E. graduate girl just simply does not want to marry another B.E. any more!
- With high earning potential for Engineering Degreed girls in SWE fields, in India, earning high salaries, many of the girls' parents are disinclined to give away their daughters in matrimony to boys from the U.S. because they have to come here under a dependent classification of visa called H4, and "sit on the bench", while their husbands are away at work M-f 7:00 am to 8:00 pm. While many parents still consider U.S. (and to U.K. to a lesser degree), as a good and safe abode for their daughters in matrimony, there is less of acceptance of other countries such as Europe (language barrier in countries like Germany, France, Italy, Switzerland, etc), Middle East (girls just don't want to go there), and to Australia (because of racial violene that we get to hear and New Zealand! (there are more sheep out there than men and women!)
- As in the U.S., Birth stars like Ayilyam, Moolam, Pooradam and Kettai are still a "taboo" and untouchables by the boys' parents in India; Virtually hundreds of girls of marriageable age into their late 30's and early 40's have remained unmarried for this reason! I have to agree with Mr. Dhinakaran's assessment in this area, because what is being reflected by parents of boys in the U.S., could be equally true in India as well! Old habits and "faith" seldon die hard!
- Dhinakaran is correcct in his assessment that the girls' Parents expect an earning of a mimimum salary of rupees one lac per month at least! I heard a girl's mother saying this to me from India -- she feels that her daughter cannot lead a comfortble and happy married life without such an income and provide for basic needs for the children to be born to the couple! An aspiration of girls' mothers that I cannot dismiss as beng unfair, in these hard and critical days, when100 rupees does not go far enough! I would like to ask boy's parents having daughters (to be married) as to how many of them would be ready to give away their daughters in matrimony to someone making rupees 25,000 per month!? It is a situation that boys' parents can accuse the girls' parents of being greedy, but that when it comes to their own daughters, they would not compromise and offer their daughters to someone making rupees 25,000 per month!
- Please do not indulge in bashing girls' parents, as this is NOW a LAW OF DEMAND AND SUPPLY! Just imagine how you will react, if the shoe were to be on the other foot!
- Dhinakaran is also correct that even if everything is coming together well to consummate and celebrate a marriage between the boy's parents and the girl's parents, some times it gets aborted because the entire family of the girl is dependent on her earning potential, some times exceeding a lac of rupees per month! This could largely influence such a decision if the Father is retired, getting a meagre pension and there is a brother or two who has aspirations to go to an Engineering college in India, and go abroad, that parents cannot support! So the girl become the major household breadwinner! Remember the old move "Aval Oru Thodarkadai" in which the eldest sister of a family becomes the breadwinner and sacrifices everything to the cause of her family, including her fiance' who she understands her younger sister loves and persuades her fiance' to marry her! waiting to catch a bus to go to work the next morning! after he sister is married to her fiance' Most agonizing and touching drama!
- I cannot justify Dinakaran's comment re: why girls prefer other Varna boys, because her (otherwise) Brahmin in-laws and husbands are afraid of their intelligent and smart daughter-in-law! This one beats my imagination as a reason for Brahmin girls wanting to seek boys from other varnas but since Dinakaran says he conducted "exit poll" with inter-varna married brahmin girls and since he is a Secretary of *******, I would not challenge his statement nor his "exit poll" with girls married to other varna boys!
- Marriageable boys working and living in Trichi, Salem, Erode, Tirunelveli, Madurai, Coimbatore and other towns in South India, have been undergoing this problem, becaue more and more computer educated girls are seeking alliances within Chennai, Bangaluru, Hyderabad, and those who are settled in Mumbai/Pune seeking varans locally and those living in New Delhi/Delhi, seeking varans there only! This problem is akin to the problems being faced by boys and girls living in the U.S., who cannot relocate to another city and State with a marriage! It is topography, geography in two different countries but the problem is common, both to India and to the U.S. In India there are no techie jobs in Madurai, Coimbatore, Erode, Trichy, Tirunelveli and in the U.S. the girls are unable to relocate to another city and State!
- I do not support or subscribe to Dinakaran's views to seek available divorsees and widows in matrimony, as in his personal opinion this will reduce the above mentioned inverse ratio of (7 : 1) boys vs girls and will also to keep our (Brahmin) community in tact.
courtesy iyer 123 yahoo group
regards
tbs
