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Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

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Dear Sir,

At first I did not want to reply to your comment. But courtesy demands a reply. So I decided to give my reply, all the same!

No parent will ever demand "a pound of flesh from the heart" of his/her off spring- not even the ferocious animals living in wilderness!

Parents should encourage their children to develop an inquisitive and inquiring mind. This NOT the same as encouraging a rebellious and a revolting mind!

According to you, parents who wish for the welfare of their children and their take steps to ensure their long term happiness, are committing a major crime!

I personally know a family who brought up their daughter "as the apple of their eyes".
This girl married one of her seniors (who was less qualified than her in every aspect) secretly and vanished one day!

The parents have crumbled to dust and have gone underground-unable to face any one known to them.
According to you, the girl who stabbed them in their backs is RIGHT and the parents are WRONG!

So, in your opinion, the parents should be walking around feeling very proud as to how well they have brought up their daughter-who has become so independent, so bold in defying the society and so self-centered and mean!

There is a saying in Tamil,"தலைவலியும் திருகுவலியும் தனக்கு வந்தால் தான் தெரியும்"

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
 
... a family who brought up their daughter "as the apple of their eyes".
This girl married one of her seniors (who was less qualified than her in every aspect) secretly and vanished one day!

The parents have crumbled to dust and have gone underground-unable to face any one known to them.
According to you, the girl who stabbed them in their backs is RIGHT and the parents are WRONG!

So, in your opinion, the parents should be walking around feeling very proud as to how well they have brought up their daughter-who has become so independent, so bold in defying the society and so self-centered and mean! ...

Namaste Visalakshi Ramaniji,

Each/Every parent treats their children as "apple of their eyes" irrespective of their child being Raam or Raavan like and there is no pride or shame (mostly only pride).

Kids leave parents not only because parents being against their love marriage but also in the case of arranged marriages because of difference of opinion between parents and spouse.

Unfortunately parents crumble to dust whenever kids leave them irrespective of reason ie love marriage or arranged marriage.

Parents expecting the kids to take care of parents, to follow legacy ie family tradition/culture are bound to be miserable because expectation leads to misery this is no veda/science but mere common sense.

back stabbing ... this is a very strong language(emotion ?) ... is vice versa holds good? ie when arranged marriages go wrong ... when kids are not raised properly ie forced to face rat race because peer/social pressure ie condition the minds of kids to be doctor/engineer etc against their wishes/potential? ... are these case be eligible to be labelled as back stabbing? Fortunately kids never blame parents.

Society - does it not start from family? how come parents caring for society forget about kids?

Visalakshi Ramaniji, in your earlier posts you mentioned (stated ?) that love marriages fail because there is no adjustment after marriage. This is very much true but this is true also in the case of arranged marriage ie in any kind of marriage. Lot of effort is need to keep a marriage going and this is an everyday/everyhour effort. Most of the successful marriages are marriages that have not yet failed and are going just because of a persons efforts/interest. It is a miracle for two people to live together and make a family.

To state reason for success of marriages to be arranged/intra-case/intra-religion undermines/insults the efforts/love/affection/time/patience invested by two people(including kids, parents, in-laws etc.,) and surprisingly most of the times invested by only one person !!!

Jai SiyaRaam
 
visalakshmi,

very nice poems.

only thing, is that they appeal to the pathos of the worst outcome of the situations.

though i have never fallen in love and had an arranged marriage, i see my children in love. let me tell, there is no other feeling that beats it. it is a sheer joy to watch to young ones in love.

i think, you are portraying selfish parents - who still want to control their children and not let them grow up. it is best the parents that you have in mind, let go of that mindset. otherwise they are in for a lot of sorrow.

please remember, it is the parents who brought the children into this world, through their sex acts. the children did not ask to come here.
Dear Kunjuppu,

Visalakshi's view and your pov represent IMO two different cultures (in probably two different economic scenarios as well). According to traditional Hindu beliefs, children are born as a result of the karma of the parents which provokes them to give birth to souls which were wandering without "gati", searching for a chance for an appropriate birth" in order that they could experience the results (good and bad, both) of their "sanchita karma" and, at the same time have a birth in a brahmin home (of course this remark applies only to the brahmin homes) which will give them a one-in-a million opportunity to also learn to advance towards "moksham" or the ultimate liberation. The parents bring up their children and the children, on their part, have to look after their parents in their old age - to the best of their ability - as part of their duty which also forms part of the exercise to get rid of the evil effects of their (children's) past karma. In this scenario, the argument that "the children did not ask to come here" is not valid.

The other view is looking at it purely from the worldly level. There the children have the right to the above claim, and so to select their own life-partner and live their own life and the humans do not much differ from, say, birds which feed and train their young ones till the birdlings acquire the skill of flying, and then forget all about them. There are advantages and disadvantages in both systems, I feel.
 
A very pertinent point has been well made. The problem is that,members from our own community will distort the basic issue in the name of Womens liberlisation/individual freedom etc. Maha Periaval had put it succintly, most of the present day problems are because of VARNA KALAPPU or intercommunity marriage. Brahmin girls must take a vow to get married only to Brahmin boys. The point is, if you do not get suitable boys from our community only then this question arises. But brahmins who marry outside their community,have they exhausted all their options. Then the big question of the next generation comes up. According to whose culture the boy or girl shall be brought up? And what right you as an individual have you you got to spoil the future of an unborn child?

By loving and choosing a partner of your marriage only the happiness of 2 individuals is guaranteed(?). But by sacrificing such love and agreeing for arranged marriages, greater interests would be served.

I am,of course, making one big assumption that none of these cases can be classified as 'eternal love". It is mere infatuation/physical attraction.
 
...Why is mere love from children towards parents is not enough?...
Love of any kind, parental, or that of a paramour, is not something that conforms to expectation, fulfilling expectation is not love.
Dear Shri Nara,

I know I am intruding in your discussion with Madam Visalakshi. We all tend to say that parental affection which is also termed "love" and that love of any kind should be "unconditional" and self less. But can we honestly say that the love between a young woman and a young man (the so-called lovers of today) is selfless and unconditional? Is it mere 'Platonic love' that we find between these youngsters? Definitely not, because what is under discussion in this thread itself is love-marriage or elopement. Even in the case of these so-called "love" marriages is it Platonic love that pervades the lives of the pairs? Again, a big no. Even if one party is incapable of physical enjoyment and requests the other that they have only "Platonic love" will it work? No. Hence what is at work is the very, very old, primitive and animal-like instinct of "sexual attraction" which has been euphemistically termed as love. This love is not at all selfless even in the best of cases, including those of our own children; the consideration here is sexual enjoyment.

Whereas parents expect that their children give them emotional and (if necessary, economic) support in their old age when they are weak (and cannot work and earn for themselves), they (parents) will not normally disown their children, even if they get shattered as in the case cited by Madam Visalakshi. In the case of the love-marriages also (like in an ordinary arranged marriage where it is openly acknowledged that it is for making them a couple, a family, to procreate and lead a grihasta's life) when the so-called sexual consideration is not there/not capable of being fulfilled, or if any other expectation is unfulfilled, the unconditional love aspect does not work at all and the parties concerned go for counselling and most often end up in the family courts for a divorce and disown the partner.

Hence, I do not think there is any need to extol love, love-marriages, etc., (which is being done increasingly nowadays) as some great pinnacle of advancement of human culture. It is the same old wine of barabric instinct of sex (which made the strongest male get the most prized female in those days), in a new bottle!! Love marriage is choice of the individual boy or girl to choose his/her mate, the parents or the society do not play any role, that is all. In arranged marriages also the likes/dislikes of the boy and girl are taken into consideration but there is no universal choice thrown open.
 
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Sow.Sri.Visalakshi Ramani,

Greetings. Welcome to the forum. It is very nice to see a poet amoung us. I enjoyed your poems. I look forward to see more and more poems and messages from you.

post #702. narreemani and naran. well, a section of 'Kama Sutra' is dedicated to the art of 'winning the girls mind'. Many methods are explained. Even befirnding girls mother is cherished as one of the proper method. So, it is quite normal for 'Naran' (you don't mean Sri.Nara by any chance, do you?) to strive to win the Nareemani. You are quite right, no one would jump in a flowing river unless there is a benefit; nareemanis will not go after Narans if they don't see benefit in that affair. At the end of the day, Nareemani wanted to marry Naran and become Mrs.Naran; if she acheived that, it is unfair to call Mr.Naran as 'cheat'. Mr.Naran was true to his word and married her.

Post #705 Manmathanaa andhaganaa?......Why should the parents be so selfish? why should they demand everything from their children, including their emotions and feelings? Parents are supposed to help and gude the children, not control the children. If the parents are egoistic persons, there can be no use in blaming Manmathan. I would leave that poor guy alone.

Post #710 displays negative thinking. I am tired of analysing every stanza. I can show most of the stanzas are baseless. I am not going through that now.

Sow. Visalakshi Ramani, composing nice poems is a gift. I humbly request you to compose poems promoting positive feelings and positive thoughts amoung members, mainly youngsters, please.

Cheers!
 
Sow.Sri.Visalakshi Ramani said -

This girl married one of her seniors (who was less qualified than her in every aspect) secretly and vanished one day!
I was smiling when I read this. Only Indians seem to think that seniors have to be more qualified than the juniors. Senoir becomes senior by skills and contributions to the firm, not just by mere qualifications. (My son is a bachelors Engineer, seemed to have contributed noticably to his employer; few engineers with Masters Degree work under him). If a Master Engineering qualified girl end up eloping with him, it maynot be a big deal! What is in a university learned qualifications, anyway? More successful persons are made by hard work and perseverances.

Few word about the parents be it a caste Brahmin boy or a girl in the previous generations.....

1. They were more concerned about the slight comments about the society, friends and relatives than the desire and feelings of the children.
2. They liked to be seen as imposing and regimental "என் பசங்கள் நான் கிழித்த கோட்டை தாண்ட மாட்டார்கள்!"...this is the usual sentiment of the yester years. There was no room for the children's desires.
3. For the parents the word 'love' was a taboo word. They won't accept a 'love' even if it is from the same caste, same sect, same sub-sect, same status, almost similar qualifications. I have seen somany desires burned at the budding level.
4. If the boy is reasonable, gentle and sensible, they would shamelessly ask him to walk away from the affair; if he did, they would say 'he is a good boy'; but, if he stood up for him and the girl, they would brand him as bad.
5. The parents due to the excessive control kept the caste brahmin boys not to think about 'love'; if any of the boy did think, they made sure the boy fails. In this the parents of the boy and the girl work in co-operation. So, caste brahmin girls are left with NB boys if they like to have any success. I have seen few intercaste couples. NB boys win with one hand tied behind when it comes to compassion, politeness and decency.

Sow.Visalakshi Ramani said -

There is a saying in Tamil,"தலைவலியும் திருகுவலியும் தனக்கு வந்தால் தான் தெரியும்"
True. I loved a girl from the same caste, same sub-caste, not the same Gotram, same socio-economic status....I was very fit and an example for good qualities (helpful to others, never to lie, honesty...such good qualities. Never a teetotaller though!). I was so helpful to my in-laws, few persons thought they were my parents! They are nomore now; they never recognised me as their daughter's husband. The other side of the coin- My wife was treated as a slut by my parents because she fell for me! My parents never considered the numerous effotrs played by me to 'win her'; that poor girl had no chance. (after all these years, one of my sisters still treat my wife like that).

Cheers!
 
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visalakshi,

i forget my manners. welcome to the thread and thank you for sharing your poems.

as raghy says writing poems is indeed a gift, though i wonder if as he request, to write only on upbeat themes, is possible. is it not an inner stream gushing forth with feelings, and the writing almost steady and smooth - coming out in gushes to put in pen and paper, your deeply held moods?

is poems not a product of inspiration?

in that context, any poem is welcome.

hope you don't mind critiques of your views, and we all look onthe world differently. but it goes without saying, that while we may not agree with the content of the poem, all of us, i think, admire the composition :)

thanks again.
 
Dear Sir,

I know how parents feel after their grown up children leave their homes, for higher education or employment. This "Empty Nest Syndrome"
does not wreck the parents emotionally and make them go underground avoiding society. There is no shame or sorrow if our children happen to live half way across the globe.

Leaving the parents and home for genuine reasons is NOT the same as disappearing without leaving any clue! Can I say"Give the slip without leaving any tip?"

Children need not repay for all that their parents have given them. But is it too much to expect that the children should live in harmony and happiness? Blending of two things is easier when they are similar to each other-not when they are poles apart! That is why we try to get the children married in the same status, educational background, customs etc.

Parents plan the future of children with the best possible intentions. This is not back stabbing!
I am sure that you are aware of the fact that "Attitude counts more than the action performed".

Listen to what Lord Krishna says about the offerings that please Him-flower, fruit, leaf and water!
The actions of the parents is because "They Care" while the children do foolish things because "They Do not care"

Even if the children are forced to study to please their parents, they invariable go back to their first love-as soon as possible! We have seen lawyers and doctors becoming full fledged actors, auditors becoming full fledged musicians and many others changing professions!

Man is a social animal. We are living in deserted island to be able to avoid human society!

One person CAN make miracles and perform wonders-if he is as great as Mahatma Gandhi! Is it not too much to expect that every one should be a Mahatma?

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.

 
Dear Visalakshi Madam, Greetings!

....At first I did not want to reply to your comment. But courtesy demands a reply. So I decided to give my reply, all the same!
I am glad you chose to comment. We may not agree on everything we say to each other, but I will always appreciate the fact I am not being ignored.


No parent will ever demand "a pound of flesh from the heart" of his/her off spring
I agree, but asking one's child to forget his/her love would feel like a piece of heart being ripped out, and parents often think that is for the best of the child and that the child owes nothing less for all the pains of upbringing we suffered.

Parents should encourage their children to develop an inquisitive and inquiring mind. This NOT the same as encouraging a rebellious and a revolting mind!
This is difficult to manage for the best of us. Most middle-class parents are too wrapped up in day-to-day living (at least I was when my children were growing up), now I think back and realize all the mistakes we made. BTW, we, i.e., my wife I, have had more than our share of தலைவலி and திருகுவலி, but that is another story.

According to you, parents who wish for the welfare of their children and their take steps to ensure their long term happiness, are committing a major crime!
Not at all, I don't doubt the sincerity of parents, not even an iota. My point is, we, as parents, do not have a crystal ball to look into the future. We can only make an estimate of what may bring long term happiness to our children. Our estimates are indeed based on our life experiences and tend to be motivated by practical, considerations, but nevertheless not a sure thing. There are way too many unhappy marriages in both modes and neither can offer any guaranty.

The parents have crumbled to dust and have gone underground-unable to face any one known to them. According to you, the girl who stabbed them in their backs is RIGHT and the parents are WRONG!
I do feel their pain in more ways than I can explain. We don't live in cloistered agraharams any more. These things can and will happen to the most loving of parents. Parents must prepare themselves to not crumble to dust, there is no need for that. They should prepare themselves to find happiness with whatever life presents. Do your duty and don't expect anything in return -- is this not one of the core messages of the celebrated Bhagavat Geethai?

We should not worry about what the neighbors may say, or how to show my "face" in a social gathering, these are not important. Our own happiness and our children's happiness are infinitely more important. If we accept his/her choice there won't be any running away. If theirs is a bad choice, then it is all the more important for us to be there, showing support and love, so when they need our help we are there, close by.


So, in your opinion, the parents should be walking around feeling very proud as to how well they have brought up their daughter-who has become so independent, so bold in defying the society and so self-centered and mean!
As parents, our primary function is to support and love our children. Feeling proud about what they are able to achieve is close second. IMO, our children being bold and defying traditional norms of society can be sources of pride, but not if they are self-centered and mean. I don't agree that a child getting married against the wishes of parents can be characterized as "self-centered and mean".

Cheers and best regards....
 
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dear Sir,
Thank you for clarifying your views as against my views. I still feel that the girl should have tried to convince her parents about the boy being worthy of her and got married with their permission and blessings. Well we don't see eye to eye but we can still be penfriends I suppose!
with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani
 
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Dear Sir,

A poem is the product of deep conviction and strong emotions! Yes it is born out of an inspiration. I am happy that you appreciate the poem even though you may disagree with its contents!

Here is a poem for you and others, aiming to rectify the mistake commonly committed by the parents(out of their affection and good will)!

with warm regards,
Visalakshi ramani.
 
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[FONT=arial black,sans-serif] மயிலும், குயிலும்.

மயில் ஆடுவதற்கென்றே பிறந்தது;
மயில் அகவினாலோ கர்ண கடூரம்!
குயில் பாடுவதற்கென்றே பிறந்தது;
குயில் விரும்பினாலும் ஆட முடியாது.

இயற்கையின் நியதியை அறிவோம்;
இயல்பினை சற்றேனும் அறிந்தோமா?
நம் வாரிசுகளாக உதித்த குழந்தைகளின்
நல்ல திறமைகளை நாம் அறிந்தோமா?

[/FONT]
[FONT=arial black,sans-serif] [FONT=arial black,sans-serif]விரும்பிய ஒன்றைச் செய்யும் போது
அரும்பிடும் ஒருவரின் தனித் திறமைகள்!
விரும்பாத ஒன்றைச் செய்ய மனம்

[FONT=arial black,sans-serif]விரும்பாது போவதும் இயல்பல்லவா?

[/FONT]

[/FONT]
நாம் விரும்பியும் நமக்குக் கிட்டாததை,
நம் குழந்தைகள் மீது திணித்துவிடுவோம்!
நல்லது செய்வதாக நினைத்து அவர்க்கு
அல்லதை மட்டுமே செய்துவருவோம்!
[/FONT]

[FONT=arial black,sans-serif]மதிப்பெண் குறைவாக எடுத்தவனை, நன்கு [/FONT]
[FONT=arial black,sans-serif]மிதித்தால் மதிப்பெண் கூடிடுமா? அவனின்
தனித் திறமை எதுவென்று கண்டு, அதை
இனித்த முறையில் வளர்க்க வேண்டாமா?

ஒவ்வொருவருள்ளும் ஒரு சிறந்த திறமை
ஒளிந்து கொண்டு இருக்கின்றதே! அதை
ஓங்கி வளரச் செய்து விட்டால், வாழ்வே
ஒளி மயம் ஆகிச் சுடர் விடும் அன்றோ?

கான மயிலிடம் பாடலையும், மற்றும்
கானக் குயிலிடம் ஆடலையும் தேடாதீர்!
பசுவிடம் கனிந்த பழங்களையும், மற்றும்
பாலை, மரங்களிடமும் என்றும் தேடாதீர்!

எது எது எங்கு எங்கு உள்ளதோ - நமக்கு
அது அது அங்கு அங்குதான் கிடைக்கும்!
இதுவரை நாம் செய்த தவறுகள் போதும்;
இனிமேல் நல்ல திறமைகளை வளர்ப்போம்!

வாழ்க வளமுடன்,
விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி
[/FONT]
 
Dear Sir,
By the word "senior" I meant that the boy was studying in the same educational institute- ahead by one academic year!

Pondering over your points 2 through 5, please explain the boom and boost in the number of love marriages-if your points were valid and true!

Your in-laws treated you as a son instead of a son-in-law. You must have merged so well in that identity that your parents too must have thought you were the son of your in laws and not themselves!

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani
 
Hello Mrs. Visalakshi,
I read your reply for my post, thanks a lot for your time. I think that if intercaste marriages are to become less common then people should become aware of why these are not encouraged.People say they want ONE GOOD REASON. I actually wanted to give not just one but Several GREAT REASONS, I thought maybe you could help me list down a few more reasons. Thankyou
 
Dear Sir,

The poems were written in May and June when a girl from close family circle eloped with her boy friend, after getting married to him in a registered office secretly. I had no idea about the existance of Tamilbrahmins.com or about Sri.Nara, a veteran in this web site, at that time!

The Naran (in the form of a Nari=fox) has disappeared with the Narimani. Whether he will take care of her for life or ditch her after using her, is yet to be seen!

Manmathan is not a poor guy. He is the root cause of the mischief happening in this world!

We have nine moods called Navarasa. One can not be always jumping with joy irrespective of the things happening around! Probably a very young baby or a mentally imbalanced person may be able to laugh when others cry!

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
 
Something to make you smile-if not laugh aloud!


இனம் இனத்தோடு...

உலகினை வெறுத்து, உண்மையைத் தேடி;
உள்ளத்தை அடக்கி, உன்னித் தவம் செய்த;
ஒரு முனி மடியில், விழுந்தது சிறு எலி;
பருந்திடமிருந்து, திமிறிப் பிழைத்தது.

தன் தவ வலிமையால் அச்சிறு எலியை,
தவழும் குழந்தையாய் மாற்றினான் முனிவன்.
தவத்தையும் மறந்து, குழவியைப் பேணி,
தாயும், தந்தையுமாய், மாறினான் முனிவன்.

காலம் பறந்தது, நாட்கள் உருண்டன;
கண் கவர் கன்னியாய் வளர்ந்து நின்றாள்.
காலம் தாழ்த்தாமல் கடி மணம் முடிக்க,
எண்ணினான் முனிவன், தண் அருளோடு.

அருமை, பெருமையாய் வளர்த்த மகளை,
அன்புடன் பேணும், கணவனைத் தேடினான்.
சிறுமியும் உரைத்தாள், தன் சீரிய கணவன்,
சிறந்தவனாகத் திகழ வேண்டும் என.

ஒளியுடன் வெப்பமும், உமிழ்ந்துயிர் காக்கும்,
ஒளிக் கதிரவனை அழைத்தான் முனிவன்.
"உலகினில் சிறந்தவன் நீயே அதனால்,
வலக்கரம் பிடிப்பாய் என் சிறு மகளின்".

"ஒளியும் வெப்பமும் உமிழ்ந்த போதிலும்,
ஒளி குன்றிடுவேன் ஓர் கார் மேகத்தால்.
என்னைக் காட்டிலும் சிறந்தவன் மேகமே,
சின்னப் பெண்ணை அவனுக்கு அளியும்."

சொன்ன கதிரவன் சென்றபின் முனைந்து,
மன்னுயிர் காக்க மா மழை பொழியும்,
மண்டிய மேகத்தை அழைத்தான் முனிவன்.
வேண்டியபடி மணம் புரியச் சொன்னான்.

"ஊதும் காற்றால் உருக்குலைவேன் நான்.
ஊரார் அறிவார், காற்றே வலியவன்.
உங்கள் மகளை அவனுக்கே அளியும்".
தங்காமல் சென்றான் காரிருள் மேகம்.

ஓடும் காற்றை அழைத்தான் முனிவன்,
தேடும் கணவன் அவனே என்றான்.
"ஓடும் என்னையும் வாடச்செய்யும்,
ஒருவன் உள்ளான்; அவன் இந்த மலையே!

என்னைக் காட்டிலும் வலியவன் மலையே,
சின்னப் பெண்ணை அவனுக்கு அளியும்."
மலையிடம் சென்றான் மாதவ முனிவன்,
நிலைமையைச் சொல்லி, பதில் எதிர்பார்த்தான்,

"வலியவன் நான் என்பது உண்மையே! ஆயினும்,
எலியிடம் தோற்றுப் போவதைக் காண்பீர்.
சிறிய உருவம், ஆயினும் வலிய முயற்சியால்,
பெரிய என்னையும் துளைத்திடுவான் எலி."

மலைத்து நின்றான் முனிவன், ஆனால்
மகிழ்ந்து நின்றாள் முனிவரின் மகள்.
தனக்கு மிகவும் இசைந்த கணவன் அந்த
தன்னிகரில்லா எலியே தான் என்றாள்.

இனத்தோடு தான் இனம் சேரும் அன்றோ!
அனைத்தும் அறிந்தவன், இதை அறியவில்லை.
கனத்த மனத்தோடு, வருந்திய போதிலும்;
மனத்துள் வாழ்த்தி, மணம் செய்வித்தான்.

கதிரவனையும், கார் மேகத்தையும் விட,
காற்றையும், கனத்த கல் மலையையும் விட,
சிற்றெலி தான் சிறந்தவன் என்று நம்மால்
சிரிக்காமல் சொல்ல முடியுமா பாரும்!

வாழ்க வளமுடன்.
விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி
 
Reason why friendship between dissimilar partners won't work out well!

Hello Mrs. Visalakshi,
I read your reply for my post, thanks a lot for your time. I think that if intercaste marriages are to become less common then people should become aware of why these are not encouraged.People say they want ONE GOOD REASON. I actually wanted to give not just one but Several GREAT REASONS, I thought maybe you could help me list down a few more reasons. Thankyou





If this is the fate of mere friendship between dissimilar partners, what will be the fate of a union of dissimilar partners in wedlock?




கூடா நட்பு.

உலக நிகழ்வுகளை அலசி அசை போடும்,
ஊக்கம் நிறைந்த எலியும், தவளையும்,
நீண்ட நாள் நண்பர்கள், ஒன்றாகவே இருப்பர்,
நீங்கி இருக்க முடியாத நெருங்கிய நட்பு!

"அணு ஆயுதங்களால், உலகுக்கு மிகுந்த
ஆபத்து", என்று கேட்ட இவ்விரு நண்பர்கள்,
செய்வது அறியாமல் திகைத்து நின்று பின்,
சேர்ந்தே இருப்போம் என்று தீர்மானித்தனர்.

உறுதியான ஒரு கயிற்றை எடுத்து வந்து,
உறுதியாகக் தங்கள் ஒவ்வொரு காலை
சேர்த்து கட்டினர், மனம் மிக மகிழ்ந்தனர்;
சேர்ந்து இருவரும் ஒன்றாய் இருப்பதாலே.

நேரம் சென்றது, தவளையின் உடல்
நீரின்றி வறண்டு காய்ந்து போனது.
நீரை நோக்கி தவளை தாவியது.
நீரில் மூழ்கினால் இறந்துவிடும் எலி.

எலி ஒரு புறமும் தவளை மறுபுறமும்,
எக்கி இழுக்கவே இரண்டும் அரண்டன.
அணு யுத்தம் என இரண்டும் மிரண்டு,
ஆளுக்கு ஒரு பக்கம் இழுக்கும் போது;

வானில் வட்டமிட்டுப் பறந்த பருந்து,
வானளவாகிய மகிழ்ச்சி அடைந்தது.
மின்னல் போல கீழே இறங்கி, அந்த
பின்னிய கயிற்றை எடுத்துப் பறந்தது.

இருபுறம் தொங்கும் இரண்டு நண்பர்களும்
இனிய உணவாயினர் அந்த பருந்துக்கு.
"கூடா நட்பினால் கேடே வரும்", என்று
காட்டிடவே உயிர் துறந்தனர் இவர்கள் .

நல்ல நண்பர்களே நன்மைகள் புரிவர்.
அல்லாத நண்பர்களால் கேடே விளையும்.
நல்ல நண்பர்களையே என்றும் நாடுங்கள்,
நலம் பல பெற்று வளமுடன் வாழுங்கள்.

வாழ்க வளமுடன், விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி.
 
Dear Shri Sangom, Greetings!

...I know I am intruding in your discussion with Madam Visalakshi.
It is an honor to have you in the discussion.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I think your main observation is that there is nothing called platonic love, it is all physical. I have to say, I don't disagree completely, but our view may diverge depending upon what we mean by physical. IMO, physical love is not limited to just coital union. I will come to this in just a minute, but first, the main point of my response to sister Visalakshi was, at a mere mundane, ephemeral level, our children need and deserve our love and support, without predicating them upon fulfilling our notions of social propriety. In my reply to her I have described my stand in more detail.

Back to platonic love -- at the core of the lives of all the species all around us, including we humans, is the instinct to survive, pass our genes down to the next generation, and increase the chances for our off-springs to do the same. Young animals go to extreme lengths to attract mates. Some even offer their own lives in return for sex, viz. males of some preying mantis species. The choice of mates is dictated by chances of healthy off-spring and if careful rearing of the off-spring is necessary, the likelihood of sharing of rearing responsibility. The male and female members of each species have developed their own ways of advertising these desirable qualities.

In humans, physical beauty, and a corresponding attraction to it, are surrogate indicators for healthy egg and sperm so that the off-springs are likely to be healthy. Promise of monogamy -- whether kept or not (more important for men from his mate than for a woman from her mate) -- IT job, huge salary, convoy of cars, "good" family, these are surrogates for sharing of rearing responsibility.

After the child is born, the parents undertaking extraordinary sacrifices for the educational/professional success of the children, teaching them music, dance, slogams, conformity to social norms, etc., these are to make sure the children are successful in surviving, finding healthy and dependable mates, and procreating, so that our own genes survive another generation.

What we call love is just emotions churned out of all these physical needs, in other words, all love is physical. At an young age the feeling of love is a product of procreation imperative and to an equal extent, sharing of rearing imperative. If only procreation imperative was present, one may look to only physical beauty. If it was just coital, then one would witness simultaneous multinomial attraction crisscrossing in all directions. But we are attracted not just by physical beauty, but also by the care our lovers show, the sharing of feelings, a warm kind of attachment. These are surrogates for a promise to share in rearing responsibilities. Even though these are not feelings directly linked to physical beauty, they are physical all the same as these feelings are generated by changing hormones and brain chemicals.

Next is love for children, and it is no more platonic than any other kind. At the core of parental love for children is the rearing imperative that is so essential to ensure that our genes get passed further down the generations. Parents of girls are driven to maximize the girl's chance of producing children and making sure those babies survive to healthy adulthood. For the girl to be able to rear her children well, she needs the support of her mate and the larger society. This is the driving force behind making sure the girl conforms to the prevailing norms and mores so that she finds a mate who can deliver on both counts, producing babies and making sure those babies are reared to a healthy adulthood. Paradoxically, the parental love that impels them to selflessly sacrifice everything for their children, is, at its core, a supreme selfish act, to ensure their own genes succeed into the next generation.

So, all love is physical, the love between two young people impelled to make babies, or the love of parents to make sure their babies can grow up and make even more babies. The barbaric instinct is coded in the DNA of not just humans, but all spices that rely on sex for reproduction.

Love is indeed the same old wine. Old Tamils had a practice called மடல் ஊர்தல். This ritual finds praise in our Tamil literature. It finds mention even in Tamil Bhakti literature. Parangusa Nayaki (Thirumangai Azhvar in Nayaki bhavam) says she is not going to let Lord Sriman Narayana jilt her, she is going to perform மடல் ஊர்தல் even though it is prohibited for girls to do over a boy she seeks.
அன்ன நடையார் அலர் ஏச ஆடவர் மேல்
மன்னும் மடல் ஊரார் என்பது ஓர் வாசகமும்
தென் உரையில் கேட்டு அறிவதுண்டு, அதனை யாம் தெளியோம்

....

and ends this long poem with

உலகறிய ஊர்வன் நான் வண்டறைய பூம் பெண்ணை மடல்
In the ancient times love between a boy and a girl found its celebration in poems. These days it is extolled in the present day popular medium, silver screen. The same sweet wine, in a different bottle, but enjoyable all the same, and what an enjoyment it is. The stolen glances, the half smile sends you to heaven and back. Even though this love is coming from hard coded instinct bursting forth from our DNA, when we are swimming in it, who cares where it is from, sip it, enjoy it, we don't need to tell our DNA we know the truth.

A love song even in a language we don't understand is beautiful. Here is one, enjoy. For Tamil movie buffs from yesteryears, can you name the Tamil song copied from this one?

Cheers!
 
Dear Sirs,

These facts found in #710 are not MY predictions or comments or observations!

These are the predictions made by the seers and sages thousands of years ago!

You may read about them more elaborately in Srimad Bhagavatham where the effects of Kali Yuga are described in detail.

What I have shown is just the tip of the ice berg!

You can read and enjoy the detailed version and then go on to say whether these points are indeed "baseless" nonsense!

It is rightly said that the "Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread"

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
 
visa,

one small request if you don't mind.

instead of addressing all your notes, 'dear sir(s)', can you please address specifically to whichever person it is targetted? it helps to put the proper context of your reply.

hope you don't mind.

thank you.
 
To who ever it may concern!

I got ten mails during the night ( I am now on vacation in USA). I try to reply to them using the reply option below the mails. But the names do not appear in the box!

It leaves me two options.

To spend more time in finding the names of the persons who wrote the mails.

Or not reply at all!

Visalakshi Ramani.
 
Dear Smt. Visalakshi, Greetings!

All your poems are good, மயிலும் குயிலும் is particularly good. Don't you think the எலி poem girl may have run away if she didn't have the confidence that her dad will respect her wish? The sage is wise to instill this confidence in his daughter's mind. This is an important lesson for all parents with young children, make sure our children will have this confidence and they don't feel when they are in a difficult situation that the only option for them is to run away. Developing this confidence requires life long effort.

Some more observations ....

....These are the predictions made by the seers and sages thousands of years ago!
All cultures have these dire predictions in their religious texts. There is the Book of Revelations in The Bible, NT. Then there is the Mayan 2012 predictions. The Quran includes such passages as well. I wonder whether one can have a religion without such texts predicting some sort of deterioration of values.

Well, the point I want to submit to you is, in as much as the points you have made in the poem கலிதரும் இன்னல்கள் are from religious texts, they have the same believability limitations as the predictions made in the texts of other religions, no?

Also, many of the points you cite from Bhagavatham in your கலி தரும் இன்னல்கள், IMO, are good things we must welcome and be thankful for. A few examples:

  • No reason why a wife must obey her husband all the time; marriage is an equal partnership between husband and wife
  • The rich and powerful don't deserve any more respect than a decent commoner
  • Varna/Jati is a scourge, a cancer, the sooner it is eliminated, the better it is for our society
I also find some points are not valid at all, for example:

  • Marriage is between a man and a woman, not between his and her families. Saptapati is a promise between the two individuals, not between two families.
  • Sex workers have been around all through history, it is not an invention of Kali Yugam, Satyakama's mother Jabala is an example


It is rightly said that the "Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread"
But for us Fools rushing in Angels will never know what they are missing :). (Just kidding!)

Cheers and best regards....
 
....I got ten mails during the night ( I am now on vacation in USA). I try to reply to them using the reply option below the mails. But the names do not appear in the box!
I review the posts from the web site. To reply, I click Reply With Quote. This automatically inserts the name and the text of the post you are replying to. You can then delete unwanted portions of the quoted text.

Also, if you go to advanced mode of editing, at the top you will see several clickable buttons for further formatting.

Or not reply at all!
I hope you don't opt this!

best regards ...
 
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