Do all Brahmins need Kula Dhaivam?

[sarang]

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The Paramatman, Parabrahman is the head of the kingdom of God, and He is assisted by many gods, like our terrestrial kingdom. Vaishnavite view is why approach minor gods when you have direct access to Sriman Narayana. Will you seek the help of the local councilor when the king can solve your problems. Other view is why trouble the king when a minor minister can easily solve your problem which is easy for him but very difficult for you. So the minor gods have a place in our philosophy and practice. Some vaishnavites pray to only Narayana, while some others even when worshiping other gods, offer their prayers to the antaryami Narayana.

Our kamya prayers for minor gods do get us what we want; but for moksha the path is different. Our prayers and rituals are oriented to

The king, should not prohibit or meddle with the traditions and practices followed by his even newly conquered subjects. (Yagnavalki smriti). That is the importance given to the religious practices followed by the people.

It is a christian concept to call others' way of life as superstition when they don't understand. Our acharyas respected all divisions and sub divisions. We have only dharmic and adharmic practices. One must ask the person walking on fire, what he got out of it; or a person doing sathyanarayana puja. Some people claim to know the truth 2+2=4 and have no hesitation in branding what is superstition and what is not.

I have a question. Isn't the idea of believing in a guru or godmen/women the same as having a kula deivam, in a way? Are we not merely exchanging one kula deivam for another?

 

[prasad1]

Post#75 is well written.
Post#76 must have been written in anger, without thinking out first.

It is a christian concept to call others' way of life as superstition when they don't understand.

Does it mean that there is no superstition in Hinduism, Islam, Voodoo, Aborigine Religion?
Please wake up, accept some responsibility to educate your fellow Humans. If you abdicate your social responsibility, you have left the human race.

 

[Jaykay767]

first off - Kula Deivam worship is one of many traditions within our religion. Just because one worships Kula Deivam does not mean one does not worship other Gods, Most south Brahmins (except some in this forum !!) worship many Gods & follow many traditions & some specific to families.

Kula Deivam is the personal gaurdian who protects you & your family, hence (obviously) she takes utmost importance. Kula Devis were created specifically to protect the rishis & brahmanas as mentioned by Ved Vyasa, hence very much a brahmincal concept!.

There are many millions of Gods in our religion & each has its own significance as written in our Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads etc.. like the Kula Deivams.

I am just setting the facts right here on how the Kula Deivam worship came out.

Just because some people have very strong opinions (without any basis) that Kula Deivam concept is at odds with our religion, our samskara Or that there is nothing wrrong about worshipping only 1 God, doesnt mean others should not follow the Kula Deivam.

Pl dont state your opinions as facts & confuse yourself & others !! - LOL !!!

 

[Jaykay767]

Let me also clarify. I am NOT stating that only Kula Deivam can protect the person & his/her family, all Gods provide the protection. Just like Surya, Indra, Varuna, Kama etc.. every God has a significance !.

These are the same as Guardian Angels in Christianity & other cultures. This does NOT mean Jesus will not save the family of the faithful. !!

 

[prasad1]

In Christianity,
However, when we think of "angel worship" - i.e. what the angels were refusing (in the passages below) - we are speaking of the act of adoration that causes one to fall before another in deep, passionate adoration that excludes all others. That kind of adoration belongs only to God our Savior; it does not belong to an angel or even another human being.


The Angels Say: Don't do it!
Revelation 19:10; 22:9 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 22:8,9 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"

Notice that in the above passage John was overwhelmed with all that was being revealed to him by the angel and was simply responding out of a heart overflowing with the wonder of it all. When he fell to his knees and began to express his feelings of awesome wonder, the angel quickly stopped him and said, "NO! Worship God!"
There are websites devoted to topic of angels (as this site is) that put all of the focus on the angels. They instruct people to pray to them, to command them, to meditate on them -- and they never mention Jesus, the King of the Angels. Unfortunately, they are leading many astray. Angels do not want your worship UNLESS they are fallen angels. In fact, a holy angel will not receive your worship.


So ... Don't do it!


Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind...


I will be the first to admit I do not know much about Christianity, but these are direct quote from Bible.
So no worshiping any angel in Christianity, it would tantamount to Blasphemy.

 

[tbs]

hi
in hinduism .....we worship many forms of god...still GOD IS ONE...CALLED BRAHMAN....but we thousand names of gods...

we worship...ISTA DEVATA...KULA DEVATA...GRAMA DEVATA...means personal god....family god....community god...

a kind of discipline in worship....even when we do in sankalpams...in some places we say like that.....ISTA DEVATHANYO NAMAH...

KULA DEVATABHYO NAMAHA...GRAAMA DEVATABYO NAMAHA....so sometimes we fear abt family worship....so we try to

dont want break the chain of family traditions.....its like oral traditions of brahmin system...generally after wedding....

the new couples visit kula deivam...then go to HONEYMOON....THIS IS WAS OLD TRADITION...NOW A DAYS FIRST

HONEYMOON....THEN IF TIMES PERMITS...THINK ABT KULA DEIVAM.... LOL...generally any serious problem comes...

they go to astrologer to do some pariharams to KULA DEIVAM...ITS PURELY A INDIVIDUAL BELEIF....KULA DEIVAM

WORSHIP TO REMOVE THE DEIVA KUTTRAM FOR FAMILY...LIKE SRADHAM FOR PARENTS...SO ONCE IN AYEAR

WE HAVE TO VISIT OUR KULA DEIVAM....

 

[prasad1]

Mr. TBS,
you keep writing

tamaso maa jyotir gamayaa

But are not willing to take others from Tamas, instead of leading them to Jyoti, why would you want to keep them in Tamas.

 

[Govinda]

Mr. TBS,
you keep writing


But are not willing to take others from Tamas, instead of leading them to Jyoti, why would you want to keep them in Tamas.

Prasad Ji,

Actually TBS sir has brought out the people's lack for committed devotion, rather they want to approach Kula Deivam or any one for fruits.

The only way to bring them to Jyoti, is to make them to do daily poojas, sun salutations, consuming home-made, prasadams,
reading slokas/texts on self-discipline/correction, doing simple charity, tapas (self-restraint) in the name of shrardha or birthdays etc..
These acts would slowly get ingrained, and bring them knowledge/Jyoti. [As per shastras/gita, Prayers and Charity, resolves our past-karmas.]

If we are in deep trench, we need a ladder of many rungs to raise up to the ground. If we are in gum-iruttu (pitch dark), we need
many lights to brighten up.

Our Idealistic approach of some JADA Brahman, out there, is ridiculous. If the Brahman holds everything in Him, He should be the
one taking part in difficult physical evolution of the universe and also in the spiritual evolution of the earth. Thus, Brahman cannot be one merely
invisible, He is the deity Himself, that take part (as direct avatars) or shares His power/will to the innumerable regents of the cosmic objects (Sukra, Chanrdra, Surya, etc.), natural powers (Agni, Indra, Vayu...) and that of the societal evolution (Rishis, Sages, etc.). When the north-india saw divinity in Krishna, Pandian saw divinity in Shiva (tiruvilaiyadal). But, they still practised their daily rituals and ethical tenets without fail. The society as a whole was
spiritual, humble and lived a natural, holistic life.

In the modern era, we have given up all our nitya, naimittika karmas, but wanted to suddenly pay a visit or erect a temple for one unknown Kula Deivam.
That would be forgotten after our longings or sorrows/demands fade away. Kula Devivam of last 10 generations (unless they were ancient deities of
vedas or puranas) may not be very powerful/reliable. If one is uncertain, pick up famous deity. As kula deivam is also an emotional/motivating factor, if
one can get devoted, then such people should go for it. Install them at home, start worshipping at home. Such home-worship, will motivate the householder to discipline oneself for service, hence would promote changes in life-style.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

As mentioned above, in the modern era, we have given up all our Nitya, Naimittika karmas. Secondly,
in all the Poojas, the following statement is certainly mentioned without any deviation.
KULA DEVATABHYO NAMAHA, ISTA DEVATHABYO NAMAH....GRAAMA DEVATABYO NAMAHA.....Still
in all families, they do not yet break the chain of family traditions and the new couples visit
the temple of Kula Devivam immediately after the wedding before they proceed to Honey Moon.
I also would like to add, in the Mathurakali Amman Temple, it is the Kula Deivam of Smarthas,
Vaishnavites and other Hindus. It is not for Non-Brahmins only. This practice is being followed
for many generations. We do pooja at home also during Thai Vellikizhamais (on Fridays during Jan-Feb)
and lit Maa Vilakku as adopted in the Temple without any deviation. Before we go into the
history of sanctity of Kula Deivam, where it is said that Kula Deivam should not be worshiped.

Balasubramanian

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

The worship of Kula Devata does not mean that other Gods and Goddesses are not to be prayed. The Kula Deivam worship

is followed in some families and they make it a point to visit the temple at least once in a year.

In fact visiting temple is not a must for Hindus and many do not visit temples often. If there is a prayer room and all the family

members pray twice a day, it could be considered as an achievement!

One of my uncles recited the wedding manthrAs and solemnized his brother's wedding in his pooja room!! :thumb:

After all only the couples should be present for their wedding!

Dear RR ji,

We still use the word "Other God and Goddesses" when it comes to prayer..that is what I am talking about when I say "Divide and Rule Policy" in prayer.

What I would like to do is try not to see the difference between this God or this Goddess by having separate specific mode of prayers.

Shouldn't one sincere prayer from the bottom of our heart directed to the Supreme be enough?

After all even Muslims technically have Advaita concept when they recite Azan.

No doubt they have angel theory but no one worships the angels in their religion.

Each angel is given a designated duty like Devas but no one worships them.

Most families out here have prayer room in fact I would say 100% of Hindus here have prayer room and many still go to temple at least every week.

In my house I keep the prayer room neat and tidy for my husband to use.

Only my husband prays in the prayer room.

When I pray.. I prefer an empty room with nothing in it where I would like to just recite mantras and contemplate on God.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I hope that everyone would understand that without the assistance of God's grace
we cannot achieve anything in life. In fact, even a person who has no faith in God,
before commencement of any work, at least thinks of some power to achieve the desired
result. Our Scriptures are very clear to this effect in pointing out the necessity to
offer prayer. God gives us many things even without our asking so as to have faith
in HIM. One should understand that without the divine assistance, we cannot resist
any unusual happenings in life. Hence, the assistance is in the form of prayer and
hence I feel without prayer there is no salvation in life.

Balasubramanian

 

[Jaykay767]

well a lot of us South Brahmins are rooted deeply in our traditions & follow multiple facets which includes worshipping Kula Dievams / a num of Gods. This has continued for 1000s of years & will continue for eternity. Brahmins as a community will continue as long as mankind exists.

One of the person I know (met him in the US) is a son of mixed parentage - Brahmin & a Christian. He is a close friend of my cousin & used to come for all our pujas, traditions & festivities. He was very eager to learn all this & spent a lot of time with my cousins & their families learning the brahminical culture/traditions. He also wanted to marry a Iyer (or South Brahmin) Girl, & tried many many alliances, but none agreed. Hence dejected he married into some other culture. His wife does not want to do anything with our culture & threatened to divorce him when he started teaching his kids our slokas & pujas.. So to keep peace he has given up all our culture/ trditions & does what his wife tells him & his kids.

when I met his father, he explained all this to me & blamed himself for all this liberal thinking, which led him to giving up all the traditions long back & marrying into other cultures. He cried to me saying that had he followed our traditions, he would have married with in the community etc.. & that it was not worth marrying outside seeing his son suffer so much !!.

This is the reality, how much we may or may not like, so only for traditional brahmins who wish to continue so, may want to learn from this mess. Others may please ignore my post !!! & continue what ever lila you are doing in life !!

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

#87 You have brought out a true natural picture. Our younger generations should learn from this
type of examples.

Balasubramanian

 

[sankara_sharmah]

JayKay

POST #52

As I quoted in my earlier post, our puranas clearly states that Kula Devis were in fact created to protect the brahmanas/rishis !. It is an absolute unshaken belief among South Brahmins (in particular - not restricted to tabras) that Kula Deivam will protect & be the guardian of our families for 1000s of years against any or all calamity !!. It is a bond between our anscestors & Kula Deivam which protects us & will resolve our issues immediately !!. thats why you see people asking for Kula Deivam when they face problems.

POST #56

These Kula Deivams were directly worshipped by our ancestors 1000s of years back & hence have huge significance. !!. families who have not followed this tradition for many generations can go to a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam. as prescribed by our scriptures, once a person worships the Kula Deivam ( once can just do a simple prayer regularly, no need for extensive pujas), that person & his family will be protected by any harm physicallly or mentally.

Post #78

first off - Kula Deivam worship is one of many traditions within our religion. Just because one worships Kula Deivam does not mean one does not worship other Gods, Most south Brahmins (except some in this forum !!) worship many Gods & follow many traditions & some specific to families.

Kula Deivam is the personal gaurdian who protects you & your family, hence (obviously) she takes utmost importance. Kula Devis were created specifically to protect the rishis & brahmanas as mentioned by Ved Vyasa, hence very much a brahmincal concept!.

There are many millions of Gods in our religion & each has its own significance as written in our Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads etc.. like the Kula Deivams.

I am just setting the facts right here on how the Kula Deivam worship came out.

Just because some people have very strong opinions (without any basis) that Kula Deivam concept is at odds with our religion, our samskara Or that there is nothing wrrong about worshipping only 1 God, doesnt mean others should not follow the Kula Deivam.

Pl dont state your opinions as facts & confuse yourself & others !! - LOL !!!

Post #87

well a lot of us South Brahmins are rooted deeply in our traditions & follow multiple facets which includes worshipping Kula Dievams / a num of Gods. This has continued for 1000s of years & will continue for eternity. Brahmins as a community will continue as long as mankind exists.

One of the person I know (met him in the US) is a son of mixed parentage - Brahmin & a Christian. He is a close friend of my cousin & used to come for all our pujas, traditions & festivities. He was very eager to learn all this & spent a lot of time with my cousins & their families learning the brahminical culture/traditions. He also wanted to marry a Iyer (or South Brahmin) Girl, & tried many many alliances, but none agreed. Hence dejected he married into some other culture. His wife does not want to do anything with our culture & threatened to divorce him when he started teaching his kids our slokas & pujas.. So to keep peace he has given up all our culture/ trditions & does what his wife tells him & his kids.

when I met his father, he explained all this to me & blamed himself for all this liberal thinking, which led him to giving up all the traditions long back & marrying into other cultures. He cried to me saying that had he followed our traditions, he would have married with in the community etc.. & that it was not worth marrying outside seeing his son suffer so much !!.

This is the reality, how much we may or may not like, so only for traditional brahmins who wish to continue so, may want to learn from this mess. Others may please ignore my post !!! & continue what ever lila you are doing in life

First of all, show me one of my posts which is against Kula Dhaivam concept or worship.

You first say that only Kula Dhaivam can protect you and then later you say that it is only one of the many traditions. You are contradicting your own statements.

This discussions is not about Kula Dhaivam concept or worship. Nor is this about traditions.

By throwing these you are throwing red herrings (intentionally misleading or distracting from the actual issue) and trying to divert the attention from the basic question of "Do Brahmins Need Kula Dhaivams."

Tell me is it a Brahmin tradition

1. To go to an astrologers when you have problems in your life. According to the Puranas one should take refuge in GOd and take his name. You do not find people going to Astrologers in the Puranas.

2. To go to the astrologer to find the Kula Dhaivam if you do not have one.

Tradition is a sort of Pasupatha Asthra which some members of this forum use when they run out of valid points.

And when even that fails they have Brahmasthra " Brahmin Bashing " "brahmin Baiting"

Let us not talk too much of tradition when we have abandoned Veda Patashalas, when we have stooped doing Aupasana ( A major part of Natya Anushtana karma) to name only two basics. I can go on.

Aupasana from the Chapter "Grhasthasrama", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:

Again you have avoided my basic question " where in the scripture it is said that you should go to your Kula Dhaivam in time of trouble. Or that only your kula Dhaivam can help you."

Worshiping the Kula Dhaivam is the tradition in many families. But that does not make it a Brahminical tradition.

It is not a Brahmin tradition to allow Astrologers to exploit gullible people in the name of Kula Devata.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

To All the members

This discussion is not about Brahman or the superiority of the worship of One God/goddess oven another. Kula dhaivams could be any God/Goddess.

Please Post

1. Whether you think the worship of the Kula Dhaivam supersedes all other forms of worship.

2. Whether only a Kula Devata can give you protection/solve your problems.

3. Whether one should go running to an astrologer if he does not have a Kula Devata.

Please answer these questions in the light of the above discussions.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Firstly, Kula Deivam is given priority over other Gods/Goddess while performing a pooja, ritual or a good assignment.
Secondly, Kula Deivam can certainly solve problems and give protection to us. As regards me, on many occasions
my Kula Deivam has given me protection and showed ways to solve problems when I surrendered to her for a solution.
If one is not aware of Kula Deivam, one has to approach some agency, if the predecessors are unable to exactly indicate
or failed to follow owing to various domestic reasons or shifting of places from their origin area. In some houses
relatives intentionally keep away the younger generation from knowing the Kula Deivam owing to family rifts on various
counts.

Balasubramanian

 

[suraju06]

Firstly, Kula Deivam is given priority over other Gods/[COLOR=#DA7911 !important]Goddess[/COLOR] while performing a pooja, ritual or a good assignment.

No. Not by every brahmin. Vaishnavite brahmins never bother about any kuladeivam/devatha. They never chant gramadevathabhyo...., kula devathabhyo.... etc in any pooja. They pay their respect to their Acharyan, Vishvaksena and then directly go the pooja proper. Please ask a vaishnavite brahmin to verify this.

Secondly, Kula Deivam can certainly solve problems and give protection to us. As regards me, on many occasions

Deivam, paramatma,brahman, or God acan certainly solve problems and this paramatman can also be called kuladeivam as this is just one more name for him. But if you are going to distinguish this kuladeivam as another entity quite different from God the omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent one without a second then you are wrong.

my Kula Deivam has given me protection and showed ways to solve problems when I surrendered to her for a [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]solution[/COLOR].

No comments. I can say the God(the one without a second) has given me equally good protection and solutions to my problems.

If one is not aware of Kula Deivam, one has to approach some agency, if the predecessors are unable to exactly indicate or failed to follow owing to various domestic reasons or shifting of places from their origin area.

If one is not aware of this so called kuladeivam there is nothing wrong in adopting the paramatma as his/her kuladeivam and proceeding with life. There is absolutely no need to go on an expedition to find out the kuladeivam.

In some houses

relatives intentionally keep away the younger generation from knowing the Kula Deivam owing to family rifts on various counts

This is the first time I am hearing of such possessiveness on the part of relatives about their kuladeivam.

 

[venkateswaranrn]

Kula Devata is for all.

I don't agree with that. In fact the non-brahmins were guided by the brahmin priests in the villages/communities. Except that for the non-brahmins, in most cases, the grama devata was the kula devata as well. In some of the sankalpas we do: "grama devata, kula devata, and ishta devata" - preetyartham etc.,The importance of worship of kula deivam was insisted by none other than our maha periyaval, though I don't remember the exact discourse in which he had mentioned that. You may also visit the below mentioned link in your browser, to know the significance of how the concept of kuladevata emerged: vedicliteraturepart2.blogspot.in/2008/05/what-is-meant-by-kuladevata.html.
Hence the Concept is quite brahminical, though it emerged much later than the vedic period/times. The tradition of doing Samaradhana before any auspicious function in the family is also prevalent for long long time. Also just because we have migrated from our ancestral village homes to metro cities, or foreign countries, we cannot forget our past lineage.
Rishiyur Venkateswaran

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

It is understood that there is a note with regard to Kuladeivam by Maharishis like Parashara
which guides a family for generations besides Ishta deivam that guides an individual in a
particular birth. One may be aware that the Kula deivam is one that has been worshiped
for generations or at least in the last three generations, for which there are many references.
. Apart from the Kula deivam, one will be guided by the Ishta Deivam too. While some people
are fortunate enough to have both kula deivam and Ishta deivam as the same. In such cases
there is no confusion and the spiritual journey goes on smoothly. As regards Vaishnavites,
many worship Perumal as Kula Deivam, majority follow the Sri Venkatesa Perumal at Thirupathi
or at some destinations according to their family practice.

Balasubramanian

 

[suraju06]

As regards Vaishnavites,
many worship Perumal as Kula Deivam, majority follow the Sri Venkatesa Perumal at Thirupathi
or at some destinations according to their [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]family practice[/COLOR].

Vaishnavites worship only perumal-Srimannarayana. They are very strict about that and they have reasons too for taking that position.

 

[prasad1]

Prasad Ji,

Actually TBS sir has brought out the people's lack for committed devotion, rather they want to approach Kula Deivam or any one for fruits.

The only way to bring them to Jyoti, is to make them to do daily poojas, sun salutations, consuming home-made, prasadams,
reading slokas/texts on self-discipline/correction, doing simple charity, tapas (self-restraint) in the name of shrardha or birthdays etc..
These acts would slowly get ingrained, and bring them knowledge/Jyoti. [As per shastras/gita, Prayers and Charity, resolves our past-karmas.]

If we are in deep trench, we need a ladder of many rungs to raise up to the ground. If we are in gum-iruttu (pitch dark), we need
many lights to brighten up.

Our Idealistic approach of some JADA Brahman, out there, is ridiculous. If the Brahman holds everything in Him, He should be the
one taking part in difficult physical evolution of the universe and also in the spiritual evolution of the earth. Thus, Brahman cannot be one merely
invisible, He is the deity Himself, that take part (as direct avatars) or shares His power/will to the innumerable regents of the cosmic objects (Sukra, Chanrdra, Surya, etc.), natural powers (Agni, Indra, Vayu...) and that of the societal evolution (Rishis, Sages, etc.). When the north-india saw divinity in Krishna, Pandian saw divinity in Shiva (tiruvilaiyadal). But, they still practised their daily rituals and ethical tenets without fail. The society as a whole was
spiritual, humble and lived a natural, holistic life.

In the modern era, we have given up all our nitya, naimittika karmas, but wanted to suddenly pay a visit or erect a temple for one unknown Kula Deivam.
That would be forgotten after our longings or sorrows/demands fade away. Kula Devivam of last 10 generations (unless they were ancient deities of
vedas or puranas) may not be very powerful/reliable. If one is uncertain, pick up famous deity. As kula deivam is also an emotional/motivating factor, if
one can get devoted, then such people should go for it. Install them at home, start worshipping at home. Such home-worship, will motivate the householder to discipline oneself for service, hence would promote changes in life-style.

I did read you post twice yesterday. I wanted to think over your post before answering it.
Let us say we see a man thrashing in ocean miles from the shore.

My reaction and I hope the reaction of average human being would be to call for rescue and try to reach the person ASAP and try to throw him a life preserver and hope for a professional rescuer.
If I am a professional I might try to rescue myself.

You and Mr. TBS are suggesting, if i understand it correctly:

The swimmer is doing ok, he will find out a way, please do not distract him, leave him alone, his kuladevaim, or his village God will protect him.

My inner self will not let me sleep a wink if the person drowns.

 

[kunjuppu]

To All the members

This discussion is not about Brahman or the superiority of the worship of One God/goddess oven another. Kula dhaivams could be any God/Goddess.

Please Post

1. Whether you think the worship of the Kula Dhaivam supersedes all other forms of worship.

2. Whether only a Kula Devata can give you protection/solve your problems.

3. Whether one should go running to an astrologer if he does not have a Kula Devata.

Please answer these questions in the light of the above discussions.

Hi Shankara,

Your queries are an interesting interlude in an otherwise, for me atleast uninteresting, thread.

Your questions, appear to probe one's personal faith - my response to #1, what difference does it make to you, if I (or anyone think)
the worship of the Kula Dhaivam supersedes all other forms of worship? In a country of 1.2 billion, with over 800 million claiming to be part of a pan theistic hindu way of life, how does this kuladeivam concept fit in?

re query #2 ie Whether only a Kula Devata can give you protection/solve your problems. - I read recently that the Hindu relationship with God, is one of transaction. You give me this and I give you back something. Some scoundrel left a gold crown in Tirupathi - don't know what he/she expects in return! must be something equally big, to balance that kilo of gold, at today's price

as to whether, Whether one should go running to an astrologer if he does not have a Kula Devata, can he/she not go to an astrologer, even if he/she does not have a kula deiva.

personally i thought i did not have one. i am a pattar from badagara, and my maternal grandparents, did their loyalty stuff, at nearby loganar kavu (yummy ghee oozing sweet rice those nambudri chekkans used to make). then my paternal cousin told me, that we indeed had a bhagavathi near trichur, as our istha deivam, but apparently this info was not passed on through paternal side, due to early demise of grandpa. now some cousins have started going back. i am wondering if i too should make a visit.

i agree on one thing though. it does make a good boast and fanatic loyalty - the concept of kula deivam, and makes one separate and superior to the masses. i used to have a inferiority complex, at all of those having kula deivams. once i visit this village near trichur bhagavathy, maybe my complex would disappear?

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Hi Shankara,

Your queries are an interesting interlude in an otherwise, for me atleast uninteresting, thread.

Your questions, appear to probe one's personal faith - my response to #1, what difference does it make to you, if I (or anyone think)
the worship of the Kula Dhaivam supersedes all other forms of worship? In a country of 1.2 billion, with over 800 million claiming to be part of a pan theistic hindu way of life, how does this kuladeivam concept fit in?

re query #2 ie Whether only a Kula Devata can give you protection/solve your problems. - I read recently that the Hindu relationship with God, is one of transaction. You give me this and I give you back something. Some scoundrel left a gold crown in Tirupathi - don't know what he/she expects in return! must be something equally big, to balance that kilo of gold, at today's price

as to whether, Whether one should go running to an astrologer if he does not have a Kula Devata, can he/she not go to an astrologer, even if he/she does not have a kula deiva.

personally i thought i did not have one. i am a pattar from badagara, and my maternal grandparents, did their loyalty stuff, at nearby loganar kavu (yummy ghee oozing sweet rice those nambudri chekkans used to make). then my paternal cousin told me, that we indeed had a bhagavathi near trichur, as our istha deivam, but apparently this info was not passed on through paternal side, due to early demise of grandpa. now some cousins have started going back. i am wondering if i too should make a visit.

i agree on one thing though. it does make a good boast and fanatic loyalty - the concept of kula deivam, and makes one separate and superior to the masses. i used to have a inferiority complex, at all of those having kula deivams. once i visit this village near trichur bhagavathy, maybe my complex would disappear?

Sri. Kunjuppu,

I am sorry. You have not understood the basic reason for my starting this discussion. It is very much there in my O.P.

The reason is this thread.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/10265-how-find-kula-deivam.html

sir,i belong to a pucca tamil iyer family and so does my mother in law.i recently learnt that my Father in law belongs to the warrier family and they do not know the kula deivam as he moved away from the family and we have no contact with him.my mother in law also is not aware of any details.My husband is the eldest son in the family and he has a brther and i have one son who is the only boy in the family.My son who was very studious has lost interst in studies.I know wish to find our kuladeivam and clear all our debts to the deity which is starved for so many years.Kindly help me to find out how for which i shall be grateful.===regards--mrs mala ashok

Here is a person who thinks that all her problems are because of her not knowing the Kula Dhaivam. Most probably she got her idea form an Astrologer or from one of those magazines.

This is not the first time this question was asked in this forum.

This discussion is to help members like Mala Ashok and many others who have been brainwashed by Astrologers and Brahmins who have Kula Dhaivam. That is the reason I changed the discussion heading from "Do all Brahmins have Kula Dhaivam" to "Do all Brahmins need Kula Dhaivam"?

That is why I had written about தெய்வ குற்றம் also.

 

[Jaykay767]

Reference to Post #89

Sir,

first off, there is NO contradiction in any of my statements. our religion has many many traditions & Kula Deivam is one of them. Since Kula Deivam is a Guardian Deity, it takes utmost importance. If you ask people to worship the God of protection, God of Love, God of Money, etc., they will obviously worship the God of Protection first. our families including ourselves should live safely first right before looking for money, love etc.. In the historic past, where wars were the way of life, worshipping the Gaurdian deity assumes huge significance & it still continues.

Apart from this worship of Kula Deivams, most of us also worship Shiva, Ganesha, Murgun, Vishnu, Rama, Krishna & many others depending on whether we are Shaivites or Vaishnavites. Because Kula Deivams are the Gaurdian deities we worship them first & the all others. It does not mean others have lesser significance. It is Shiva/Vishnu & Brahma who create all the Gods, the Kula Devis, so they cannot have lesser signicance.

I quoted the puranas which clearly states the Kula Devis were infact created to protect the rishis & brahmanas, so it is a brahminical tradition. if you dont agree, or believe the sources I quoted, then it is your choice. for the rest of us, there is NOT a shred of doubt that it is a brahminical origin & tradition for 1000s of yrs as preached by Veda Vyasa. you can ask any traditional south brahmin family & check this yourself.

All of scriptures, pujas, culture, is part of our traditions & most of us follow a num of them in our daily life. So where is the question of using tradition as a asthra or weapon ? It is individual choice, to follow or not to follow.

Just because some astrologers & swamijis are bad, does not mean everyone is bad. you are assuming that if anyone says go to a astrologer, that means it is exploiting the gullible.

so if you think all astrologers & swami's are bad, thats your choice. the rest of the soceity believes in them, every auspicious decision is made in consultation with the astrologer & elders. so the tradition is well & alive with the rest of us.

Cheers,
JK

 

[prasad1]

If we keep chasing these physical goals through pleasing these demi-Gods, we are in effect saying that Krishna lied when he said
Krishna says in the Bhagavad-Gita, Chapter 18 – verse 66:


sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah


Abandon all kinds of dharma,
abandon all action, abandon all duty,
and surrender to Me.
I will protect you, do not fear.


What must we renounce? What must we abandon? We must abandon what in Hinduism, we call maya, or “illusion.” We must abandon the material world in order to surrender, and be taken by the spiritual. But what does this mean?


We must renounce our mental world, which is made of bubbles; we must renounce our past, that past that we project as an imagination upon the future; we must renounce our expectations. We must renounce this mental world, in order to give ourselves up, surrender ourselves, to reality, to Krishna, to what is.


It is a renouncing of all that we think we should be, because it does not solely consist of your expectations, or your hopes. If you look deeply, you will see that perhaps you wish to fulfill the expectations of your mother or father, which are interconnected with the expectations of your grandparents, your family. We must renounce all of this.


And Krishna says here: “do not fear.” Why be afraid? Why be afraid to renounce the world of ideas? What is the fear? What are you afraid of? I am afraid, because this world of ideas is what I am. It is what I believe myself to be. Or, at least it is what we have been convinced that we are: a name . . . a person . . . someone. We have to be “someone” in life. And it is that someone, that something, that wants to be enlightened, wants to be a saint, in the same way that it wants to be a millionaire, or be famous.

I do not think we should abandon faith in Krishna's words.