Do all Brahmins need Kula Dhaivam?

[sankara_sharmah]

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We are always taught to read the life of the Saints. A perusal of many of these will show that they took up the worship of a Deity other than their Kula Devata.

If all the Hindus had restricted themselves to the worship of only Kula Devatas, Hinduism would not have reached the heights it has attained now.

There was a question about why Kula devatas are more prominent in Tamil Nadu than in other regions. It is because of the Kaval Dhaivams or the protector Gods/Goddesses. Village deities who acted as protectors of the village were more common in Tamil Nadu than in any other region. These are the Deities which later became Kula Devata. Many of these deities like Karuppnna Sami, Madan, Isakki, Masani Amman and others were not considered Brahminical deities. That is why we have a number of temples in Tamil Nadu where the priest is a Pujari and not a Vadhyar. Some of them have become Brahminized.

But even though the Brahmins in general have rejected these deities , they are the Kula Dheivam of some Brahmins.

 

[Jaykay767]

I think there is a lot of confusion on Kula Deivams !!. whether it is a brahminical tradition or not. Let me clarify.

As I quoted in my earlier post, our puranas clearly states that Kula Devis were in fact created to protect the brahmanas/rishis !. It is an absolute unshaken belief among South Brahmins (in particular - not restricted to tabras) that Kula Deivam will protect & be the guardian of our families for 1000s of years against any or all calamity !!. It is a bond between our anscestors & Kula Deivam which protects us & will resolve our issues immediately !!. thats why you see people asking for Kula Deivam when they face problems.

So the entire concept of Gotram, Kulam, Kula Devatha & Kula Puja are all rooted in our scriptures. so for those people who are interested in knowing Kula deivam they can easily approach a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam based on their horoscopes.

I also dont agree that Vaishnavites do not have Kula deivam, I know many Iyengars who have Kula Deivam (others in this forum can clarify).

Also Kula Deivam is NOT the same as Village or otherwise called as Grama Devatha !! Kula Deivam protects our family, Grama Devatha gaurds our villages !!

 

[prasad1]

Why is the indivisible God, is so divided, that God can not protect two adjoining Village, that are fighting?
I do not understand This concept of God (of limited space and time). Are these truly Hindus, or these misguided Hindus, or some others masquerading as Hindus?

If these limited invented Gods were there during Bhagavad Gita time, why were they not mentioned in Gita?
Like Mr. Sangom said we will have the god Amitab, goddess Khusboo etc. And people will be writing that it was xyz purana etc.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

I was going through the document quoted by J.K.

: kamakoti.org

This is about Shiva Puja. There is only one Mantra to be recited Om Kum Kula Devathaya namah.

The document does not say anywhere that you should worship only your Kula devata even if you are a Siva Bhakta.

As I had posted earlier we pray to the Kula Devata, before beginning the main Puja. This document only confirms that.

One need not have a Kula Devata at all to pray to Kula devata.

This question was raised in another forum and the consensus was that we say the Mantra even when we do not know The Kula Devata's name.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

I think there is a lot of confusion on Kula Deivams !!. whether it is a brahminical tradition or not. Let me clarify.

As I quoted in my earlier post, our puranas clearly states that Kula Devis were in fact created to protect the brahmanas/rishis !. It is an absolute unshaken belief among South Brahmins (in particular - not restricted to tabras) that Kula Deivam will protect & be the guardian of our families for 1000s of years against any or all calamity !!. It is a bond between our anscestors & Kula Deivam which protects us & will resolve our issues immediately !!. thats why you see people asking for Kula Deivam when they face problems.

So the entire concept of Gotram, Kulam, Kula Devatha & Kula Puja are all rooted in our scriptures. so for those people who are interested in knowing Kula deivam they can easily approach a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam based on their horoscopes.

I also dont agree that Vaishnavites do not have Kula deivam, I know many Iyengars who have Kula Deivam (others in this forum can clarify).

Now I understand. This is the view of the Astrologer's lobby.

Vaishnavites do have Kula devata. But they place their faith on Narayana/Vishnu/Krishna and do not go searching around for Kula Dhaivam

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

The concept of Kula Deivams is very similar to the "Gaurdian Angels" in Christianity !!. you will see a lot of orthodox Christians teaching their kids about these Gaurdian Angels who will protect them. Infact this exists in many cultures, not only in our religion.

These Kula Deivams were directly worshipped by our ancestors 1000s of years back & hence have huge significance. !!. families who have not followed this tradition for many generations can go to a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam. as prescribed by our scriptures, once a person worships the Kula Deivam ( once can just do a simple prayer regularly, no need for extensive pujas), that person & his family will be protected by any harm physicallly or mentally.

Cheers,

JK

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Sri. Jk

What you are advising is to forget Vedas, Samskaras, Mantras, Diksha, Guru, Bhakthi and all other aspects of Hinduism and go back to the way we worshiped Deities thousands of years back.

BTW no Christian asks his children to forget Lord Jesus.

This is what happens when Astrologers turn into religious advisors.

 

[Jaykay767]

Now I understand. This is the view of the Astrologer's lobby.

Vaishnavites do have Kula devata. But they place their faith on Narayana/Vishnu/Krishna and do not go searching around for Kula Dhaivam

Dear Sir,

To clarify, I am not an astrologer, nor anyone in my family or relatives !!. All my uncles were/are great Sanskrit Scholars, hence I had the opportunity to know / debate with them on our scriptures.

This belief of Kula Deivams is not limited, you can ask a lot of traditional tabras, south brahmins, NBs, they will all tell you the same.

Agree, some astrologers have created a lot of negative perception here by sending people on a expensive spending trip in the name of Kula Deivams, which is unfortunate.

Cheers,
JK

 

[Jaykay767]

Sri. Jk

What you are advising is to forget Vedas, Samskaras, Mantras, Diksha, Guru, Bhakthi and all other aspects of Hinduism and go back to the way we worshiped Deities thousands of years back.

BTW no Christian asks his children to forget Lord Jesus.

This is what happens when Astrologers turn into religious advisors.

Sir, Not at all. I am only saying that apart from our regular puja samaskaram, we should also worship the Kula Devatha since they are the gaurdians !

 

[prasad1]

I always used to wonder why, spiritualism is dyeing among Hindus. <snipped> What else can we expect when the rational Hindus, are silent <snipped>

RADHIKA SEKAR holds a PhD in religious studies and taught Hinduism courses at Carleton and University of Ottawa. An aspiring Vedantin, she is a devotee of the Sri Ramakrishna Mission.


In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna asks Lord Krishna to describe the personality of a holy person. Lord Krishna refers to such persons as sthita-prajna (sthitha means “standing,” prajna means “wisdom”) who are ever focused on the Brahman (God).


They see the presence of God in all and live “neither agitated by grief or hankering after pleasure, free from lust, fear and anger!” (56-74).

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Your quotation from Skanda Purana only proves that there were Kula Devatas. There is nothing , nothing at all in any scripture to justify your statements that the worship of Kula Devatas overrides all the concepts of Hinduism.

The topic is not about Kula devatas and their origin, but about whether all the Brahmins even all the Hindus need Kula Devatas.

Do all Brahmins need Kula Dhaivam?

You have not produced a shred of evidence that All Brahmins/Hindus need Kula Devatas.

All that you have written is from web sites which are not supported by any scriptures.

You have advised all of us to go back to the stone age mode of worship. I do not think any member would take that advice.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Though you may be right from your angle, one can not arrive at a conclusion that the concept
of Kula deivam or Kula Devata is basically of Non Brahmin in origin.

There is no question or ambiquity about the method of worshiping Panchyathana or worship
of five deities or Vaishnavas worshiping Lord Narayana or Vishnu.

Generally non Brahmins worship Lord Shiva, Perumal, Ayyanar or some Village deities viz.
Mariamman, Renuka Devi, Bhairava, Karuppanna swami, etc. No doubt, these come as
their routine practice. I have seen even brahmins worshiping Lord Bhairavar in some
villages. It is not Gomathi Amman in Sankaran koil alone, even some worship Meenakshi
Amman, Lord Murugan at Palani or Thiruchendur, Swamimalai, etc. Even in some brahmin
families, people attach importance to one particular God and visit the temple every year
and offer worship. One need not consider them as slaves or adimai to the deity. I saw this
article only yesterday and hence there is a delay in posting this information.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,


These Kula Deivams were directly worshipped by our ancestors 1000s of years back & hence have huge significance. !!. families who have not followed this tradition for many generations can go to a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam. as prescribed by our scriptures, once a person worships the Kula Deivam ( once can just do a simple prayer regularly, no need for extensive pujas), that person & his family will be protected by any harm physicallly or mentally.

Cheers,

JK

Dear Sir,

If we go through some vedic text..it will show the evolution of worship..at first people worshiped the forces of nature..then they progressed to a deified personality and gave this forces of nature names..then we see that after society got organized various vedic hymns are for begetting food,grains,health,progeny,wealth,power and fame.

Then there we have the Vedanta where the concept of Brahman is touched upon and finally its all about liberation.

Yes I agree that our ancestors would have worshiped some form of deified personality.
After all even now I still worship the sun in the morning reciting Surya Ashtakam.

But I do not believe in divide and rule policy when it comes to prayer as I would like to broaden my understanding that everything inert or alive is Brahman and nothing but Brahman.

So I feel there is no actual need to go Google searching for any specific Kula Devata.

My fathers family Kula Devata is Paramakudi Muthalamman but when we were growing up..my father did not really practice Kula Devata worship and neither did we go to temple often.

My father preferred the concept of God being all pervading and not solely confined to a particular image or form and preferred Upanishads as a guide in religion.

I do not subscribe to this guardian angel theory too cos above every deva/deity etc there is a Shironayaka(the overlord) and that is Paramatma(Brahman)

As long we realize that everything is nothing but Brahman and lead our lives on the basis of Love Ever and Hate Never there is no actual need for any strict worship of any sorts.

I have relatives who run to their Kula Devata temples when there is a even a minor problem..I am not saying they are wrong but they think anything bad is becos Kula Devata is not happy.

Well just try to use logic..if a Kula Devata is the type that gets angry for no apparent reason etc I guess then there is not much difference between us humans and Kula Devatas.

I know my statement is going to sound controversial but I personally feel we Hindus need to progress in our mode of worship.

Don't get me wrong I am no realized soul but sometimes we need to move forward in everything.
Our ancestors always moved forward..assimilated and learnt new things but it is the present society that wants to go in reverse direction.

 

[sarang]

So, your ancestors had a kuladeivam and your father broke that tradition and you and your children do not want to renew the tradition. Fine. We have a kuladeeivam followed from my mother's side, and all necessities - frequent visits, tonsure for the new borns and contributions to temple's/ pujari's welfare was followed by all my-generation relatives. The next generation has been told about it, and whether they will follow it or not is another issue as they are scattered all over. If the knowledge is lost and if someone 50 or 100 years hence want to, he/she will have a difficult task. So it is essential that whether one follows the tradition or not, it is his duty to pass on the knowledge. In the past it was the oral tradition, now we have several avenues. Brahmins and all families were custodians of vedic and kula knowledge and traditions, and have preserved it against odds - foreign invasions, doubting thomases and viparita jnanis.

Moving forward is a loaded word; it varies from person to person. Let us put all the options to test; the individual to choose what fits his age and temperament.

Dear Sir,

If we go through some vedic text..it will show the evolution of worship..at first people worshiped the forces of nature..then they progressed to a deified personality and gave this forces of nature names..then we see that after society got organized various vedic hymns are for begetting food,grains,health,progeny,wealth,power and fame.

Then there we have the Vedanta where the concept of Brahman is touched upon and finally its all about liberation.

Yes I agree that our ancestors would have worshiped some form of deified personality.
After all even now I still worship the sun in the morning reciting Surya Ashtakam.

But I do not believe in divide and rule policy when it comes to prayer as I would like to broaden my understanding that everything inert or alive is Brahman and nothing but Brahman.

So I feel there is no actual need to go Google searching for any specific Kula Devata.

My fathers family Kula Devata is Paramakudi Muthalamman but when we were growing up..my father did not really practice Kula Devata worship and neither did we go to temple often.

My father preferred the concept of God being all pervading and not solely confined to a particular image or form and preferred Upanishads as a guide in religion.

I do not subscribe to this guardian angel theory too cos above every deva/deity etc there is a Shironayaka(the overlord) and that is Paramatma(Brahman)

As long we realize that everything is nothing but Brahman and lead our lives on the basis of Love Ever and Hate Never there is no actual need for any strict worship of any sorts.

I have relatives who run to their Kula Devata temples when there is a even a minor problem..I am not saying they are wrong but they think anything bad is becos Kula Devata is not happy.

Well just try to use logic..if a Kula Devata is the type that gets angry for no apparent reason etc I guess then there is not much difference between us humans and Kula Devatas.

I know my statement is going to sound controversial but I personally feel we Hindus need to progress in our mode of worship.

Don't get me wrong I am no realized soul but sometimes we need to move forward in everything.
Our ancestors always moved forward..assimilated and learnt new things but it is the present society that wants to go in reverse direction.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Dear Sir,

If we go through some vedic text..it will show the evolution of worship..at first people worshiped the forces of nature..then they progressed to a deified personality and gave this forces of nature names..then we see that after society got organized various vedic hymns are for begetting food,grains,health,progeny,wealth,power and fame.

Then there we have the Vedanta where the concept of Brahman is touched upon and finally its all about liberation.

Yes I agree that our ancestors would have worshiped some form of deified personality.
After all even now I still worship the sun in the morning reciting Surya Ashtakam.

But I do not believe in divide and rule policy when it comes to prayer as I would like to broaden my understanding that everything inert or alive is Brahman and nothing but Brahman.

So I feel there is no actual need to go Google searching for any specific Kula Devata.

My fathers family Kula Devata is Paramakudi Muthalamman but when we were growing up..my father did not really practice Kula Devata worship and neither did we go to temple often.

My father preferred the concept of God being all pervading and not solely confined to a particular image or form and preferred Upanishads as a guide in religion.

I do not subscribe to this guardian angel theory too cos above every deva/deity etc there is a Shironayaka(the overlord) and that is Paramatma(Brahman)

As long we realize that everything is nothing but Brahman and lead our lives on the basis of Love Ever and Hate Never there is no actual need for any strict worship of any sorts.

I have relatives who run to their Kula Devata temples when there is a even a minor problem..I am not saying they are wrong but they think anything bad is becos Kula Devata is not happy.

Well just try to use logic..if a Kula Devata is the type that gets angry for no apparent reason etc I guess then there is not much difference between us humans and Kula Devatas.

I know my statement is going to sound controversial but I personally feel we Hindus need to progress in our mode of worship.

Don't get me wrong I am no realized soul but sometimes we need to move forward in everything.
Our ancestors always moved forward..assimilated and learnt new things but it is the present society that wants to go in reverse direction.

I totally agree with Ranuka Madam. Jai Ho.

Balasubramanian

 

[sangom]

The title of this thread is "Do all Brahmins need Kula Dhaivam?". I say "NO" emphatically.

 

[renuka]

So, your ancestors had a kuladeivam and your father broke that tradition and you and your children do not want to renew the tradition. Fine. We have a kuladeeivam followed from my mother's side, and all necessities - frequent visits, tonsure for the new borns and contributions to temple's/ pujari's welfare was followed by all my-generation relatives. The next generation has been told about it, and whether they will follow it or not is another issue as they are scattered all over. If the knowledge is lost and if someone 50 or 100 years hence want to, he/she will have a difficult task. So it is essential that whether one follows the tradition or not, it is his duty to pass on the knowledge. In the past it was the oral tradition, now we have several avenues. Brahmins and all families were custodians of vedic and kula knowledge and traditions, and have preserved it against odds - foreign invasions, doubting thomases and viparita jnanis.

Moving forward is a loaded word; it varies from person to person. Let us put all the options to test; the individual to choose what fits his age and temperament.

Dear Sir,

I would not want to agree that my father broke the tradition.
I feel my father developed a broader outlook and transmitted that thinking to us.

My mother's side did not have the tradition of Kula Devata at all and her family Istha Devata is Lord Rama.

She herself did not actually stick to only worship of Lord Rama rigidly but thought that all forms of God are essentially the same and we call God in different names.

So technically I feel the tradition of worship has not been broken...it is just that the concept of prayer has changed.

That I feel is acceptable as long we understand where we are heading.

I am not against Kula Devata worship but it is just that I am not into any one specific worship.

Prefer to pray reciting all mantras known to me as in a Sarva Dharma concept.

Our family did not also have the tradition of hair tonsuring at a temple.

All hair tonsuring for us when we were kids were done by my father at home when we were some 5 months old.

My mother wanted the anterior fontannelle of the childs skull to harden a bit before any shaving was done.

Even for my son my father did the head shaving.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

We have a temple called Siruvachur Shri Mathura Kali Amman Temple, near Perambalur, Trichy
which is our Kula Deivam. To my knowledge, I am the fourth generation, and we are strictly
following the practice and my children are also following the above rigidly. In fact, my Great
Grand Father, Grand Father used to have dharshan of Ambal and she used to practically speak
to them on certain occasions. We do not adopt any tantric procedures. We only visit the
Temple every year rigidly and also whenever there is an opportunity. She is a Standing Deity
who indicates us through different signals, if there is any untoward happenings, in advance.

Balasubramanian

 

[amala]

I have a question. Isn't the idea of believing in a guru or godmen/women the same as having a kula deivam, in a way? Are we not merely exchanging one kula deivam for another?

 

[prasad1]

I totally agree with Ranuka Madam. Jai Ho.

Balasubramanian

I second that sentiment.

 

[Raji Ram]

I have a question. Isn't the idea of believing in a guru or godmen/women the same as having a kula deivam, in a way? Are we not merely exchanging one kula deivam for another?

Kula Deivams do not preach!!

 

[prasad1]

I have a question. Isn't the idea of believing in a guru or godmen/women the same as having a kula deivam, in a way? Are we not merely exchanging one kula deivam for another?

I agree with your view. These demi-gods, human-gods, village-gods are dispensable, if you realize the true nature of Brahman. You can ascribe to Brahman any form. But Brahman is not limited to that form alone.

 

[Raji Ram]

.........I am not against Kula Devata worship but it is just that I am not into any one specific worship..........

Dear Renu,

The worship of Kula Devata does not mean that other Gods and Goddesses are not to be prayed. The Kula Deivam worship

is followed in some families and they make it a point to visit the temple at least once in a year.

In fact visiting temple is not a must for Hindus and many do not visit temples often. If there is a prayer room and all the family

members pray twice a day, it could be considered as an achievement!

One of my uncles recited the wedding manthrAs and solemnized his brother's wedding in his pooja room!! :thumb:

After all only the couples should be present for their wedding!

 

[prasad1]

Any body can pass on their Superstitions, through multiple generations, and then call it traditions. A true knowledge is not local or personal. 2+2=4, or that earth goes round sun are universal facts.
If one feels as custodian of a "super secret", it is worth exploring as to weather it is worth it.
If someone wants to live in the myth of being a "secret Jyani" so be it. But when others point out that the "king has no cloths" dont be shocked.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

The problem is not with Kula Dhaivam or the worship of Kula Dhaivam. I have a Kula Dhaivam. It is really a Kula Dhaivam because my great grand father erected the temple about 200 years back. It is a private temple only for family members and we do not even call it a temple because of the fear of HRCE.

The problem is shown by the statements of Jaykay

POST #52

As I quoted in my earlier post, our puranas clearly states that Kula Devis were in fact created to protect the brahmanas/rishis !. It is an absolute unshaken belief among South Brahmins (in particular - not restricted to tabras) that Kula Deivam will protect & be the guardian of our families for 1000s of years against any or all calamity !!. It is a bond between our anscestors & Kula Deivam which protects us & will resolve our issues immediately !!. thats why you see people asking for Kula Deivam when they face problems.

POST #56

These Kula Deivams were directly worshipped by our ancestors 1000s of years back & hence have huge significance. !!. families who have not followed this tradition for many generations can go to a good astrologer & get to know the Kula Deivam. as prescribed by our scriptures, once a person worships the Kula Deivam ( once can just do a simple prayer regularly, no need for extensive pujas), that person & his family will be protected by any harm physicallly or mentally.

Two basic assumptions.

1. Only a Kula Dhaivam can protect you and resolve your issues immediately.

2. Since only a kula dhaivam can protect you you have to go to an Astrologer and locate your Kula Dhaivam.

All of us believe in GOD. We believe in GOD and trust tha GOD will protect us. If we have any problem we appeal to GOD who will alleviate our problems. This is the basis of Bhakthi, temple worship, stotras, slokas, Mantras etc.

But according to Jaykay which is the view of many Astrologers also, Only the Kula Dhaivam can protect you. No other God/Goddess.

This goes totally against all the tenets of Hinduism and is not acceptable.