GENDER EQUALITY - in India - what we practice and what is on paper

[kunjuppu]

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believe it or not, there is a movement in india, which is fighting to restore equal rights for the males. this organizaton is against the divorce law (which apparently in india, allots 50% of the conjugal property & husband's salary to the wife, but nothing is said of the wife's earnings).

also another bone of contention, is the anti dowry law (Section 498A of IPC). there are whole blogs of this of weeping men, taken to the cleaners by women and their families.

Misuse_498a

ofcourse, the honourable memberships of this august forum, are nothing like the examples in the url, and we do not divorce. so i hope we can somewhat look at the phenomenon of gender equality.

even though indian women got their voting franchise along with the men, in the universal concept per our constitution, i think to put into practice and feel the impact of gender equality, is a fairly new thing.

while the urban areas are eons away from what is practised in the villages, we still have to agree, there is a difference in the way we treat our men and women.

recently in neeya naana, there was a topic, re need to have more than one child. what was interesting, is those who were satisfied with just one, overwhelming majority had a son. my own inlaws had quite a few daughters, till that sought after son arrived. though now a days, with the task of child bearing/rearing becoming a more challenging act in our two income families, many appear to be content with one or just two daughters. i have a few such relatives.

i would probably start off, by asking our lady members - raji, visa, renu, amala - on a day to day dealing, where you have felt that being a man would have made a difference. this is not a straightforward question as it sounds.

renu has the mbbs, and the respect that goes along with it, and raji/visa are wives of senior managers, amala is an advanced student - afaik of all these people. strip away that coat of education, status and position.

and..let us, the public share your feelings, of helpless or disadvantage of situations, just because you are a woman.

for example: in 1976, a woman friend of mine in toronto, school teacher, good job pension, single, when she wanted to buy a car, the dealership refused to sell her one, till her dad co-signed with her, re payments. she was angry, but that was the uniform policy then (soon changed though)...

deep inside, many of us men, do not consider women as our equals. we put them on pedestals, call them goddesses, put a premium of female viriginity, yet at the same time, abuse them with or without our knowledge, and due to ignorance.

below is an url about the codition of her western sisters, 50 years after women's liberation - about the deep anger at (still) the unfair distribution of household labour between man and woman - yes, in canada. i can only imagine, that it is several times worse in india. or maybe not.

dirty-work-how-household-chores-push-families-to-the-brink

 

[Brahma Rishi]

I am no male-chauvinist yet how-much-so-ever they fight, a woman is always at the receiving end and a man at the giving end which accounts for inequality among the genders.

 

[prasad1]

I have riled against this unequal treatment of women in the society.
But under same token I am against the law that does not treat men and women equal.

 

[amala]

I think it all depends to a certain extent on location and city. Being a woman sometimes does have its trivial advantanges. I have personally experienced lots of chivalry and kindness even help from random strangers and I think had a been male it wouldn't have been the case. Having said that, as a woman I feel the need to be careful constantly on my watch especially while travelling alone/late. I dunno if I have done justice in answering the question. It is not an easy one!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

I feel very happy to have born a female! Never wished to be a male so far! Women can easily handle many avtArs

very easily, imho! I have seen more of multi talented females than males in my life. Most of the men give ONLY the

financial support to the family and expect the wife to take care of the home front. Many men help with house hold

chores, more in the West, but somehow the 'illaththarasi' only gives a beautiful environment at home. It is never

said, 'KaNavan amaivathellAm iRaivan koduththa varam'! May be even if God bestows a good husband, it is in the

hands of the wife to make him continue to be good? :angel:

 

[Raji Ram]

When there is a law to help the women victims who are tortured by husbands, there should also be a law to help

the men victims who are tortured by the wives. That is REAL gender equality!

 

[sangom]

Dear Kunjuppu,

The notion of "gender equality" (GE) is an unachievable, utopian concept, imo. Shri KRS said that he suspects me to be a misogynist, but you probably know I am not one.

We can have only gender compatibility at a social level, talking of large numbers of people - like a state in India, or a country; at the household level it may become "gender adjustment"; the present concept of GE for which there is much clamour nowadays looks like a demand - to nature - to end the physiological, mental, intellectual, emotional, etc., between the males and females and bring out some sort of "unisex" creatures who will not be able to procreate in the wat nature designed man & woman.

The law of the land, the constitution, etc., can be and should be 'gender neutral' and since these are human constructs, it can be done. It has been so in India also. But the ground reality is very different and only if people who are experts in anthropological history should perhaps analyze the indian population, group by group and suggest methods to bring in norms for gender compatibility or adjustability.

As you know monogamy is a late entrant in human history and polygyny was there before that, but polyandry seems to have been the most prominent. (According to Gordon G. Gallup, human penile shape is indicative of an evolutionary history of polyandry. Male humans evolved to have a wedge- or spoon-shaped glans and to perform repeated thrusting motions during copulation in order to draw foreign semen back away from the cervix and thus to compete with sperm of other males.—Polyandry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Hence, the present day indian societies (castes may be a rough indicator, perhaps) may have had different histories of sexual evolution. It is not possible to bring in any gender equality, merely by registration and/or proselytization, and real scientific research needs to be done in this area.

I feel that we are witnessing the increasing incidence of sex-related crimes exactly because of this misdirected attempt to bring in the vague GE just by fiat/s.

PS: You wanted only the lady members to respond. But seeing that some male members also have replied, I am giving my views. This post may be ignored, if so considered.

 

[Raji Ram]

Good human who were doing their duties, never used to complain about what they do! That is, a good man who earns

for his family, never considered himself as a money making machine but was happy that he provides for his family.

If he drives his car for his family, he did not consider himself as a driver of the family. Similarly, a good lady never used

to complain that she is only a cook and servant of the house but thought she provides healthy food for her family and

help them live comfortably.

But now, this basic thinking of humans have changed! Evolution or revolution??

If one prepares food for the family, he / she = a cook. So, cook ONLY for yourself.

If one drives the car for others in the family, he / she = a driver. So, drive ONLY for yourself.

If one washes the cloths of family members in a washing machine, he / she = dhobi. So, wash ONLY your cloths!

And so on............ If caring and sharing exist between the members of a family, it is sure to be a happy family.

Members in a family should trust others and be trustworthy to others! I consider this as the real gender equality! :high5:

 

[prasad1]

Good human who were doing their duties, never used to complain about what they do! That is, a good man who earns

for his family, never considered himself as a money making machine but was happy that he provides for his family.

If he drives his car for his family, he did not consider himself as a driver of the family. Similarly, a good lady never used

to complain that she is only a cook and servant of the house but thought she provides healthy food for her family and

help them live comfortably.

But now, this basic thinking of humans have changed! Evolution or revolution??

If one prepares food for the family, he / she = a cook. So, cook ONLY for yourself.

If one drives the car for others in the family, he / she = a driver. So, drive ONLY for yourself.

If one washes the cloths of family members in a washing machine, he / she = dhobi. So, wash ONLY your cloths!

And so on............ If caring and sharing exist between the members of a family, it is sure to be a happy family.

Members in a family should trust others and be trustworthy to others! I consider this as the real gender equality! :high5:

Wonderful post.

 

[kunjuppu]

thank you sangom for your input. i did not mean this post as 'for men only', but wanted input from our favourite 4 - visa and renuka i guess did not want to oblige

raji, the west is ahead in social thinking by a few decades, i think. the western woman was very much like the indian woman, in the performance of labour. it was in scandinavia, that benchmark of equality, that the concept of GE started in the late 40s and early 50s.

if one did not have a wife, how much it would cost to perform each of the household tasks..they put a money value - and found that not many houses could afford to pay for the services. the wife came cheap, and add to it, also provided sexual services what a great ride for the guy.

all this made sense when the guy went out to kill a beast or toil in the fields. nowadays with kushi office jobs, there is no rationale for the guy to sit on arse and order a hot Boost on arriving home. particularly when the woman also goes to work 9 to 5. she has the same stress and hardships as the man.

even in neeya naana, i see the attitude of the men, very chauvinistic by my standards. and these are supposed to be 'understanding'. one tamil muslim couple, a few weeks ago, the wife would be satisfied, if the hubby did not beat her. that is all her expectation. even gopinath who jumps on any gender inequality, was embarassed not to pursue the man. i only guess that him being a muslim, mattered. my heart went out for the poor lady..as i was sure, that when she went home, she got something waiting for him.

the concept of GE, is simple to me: can i ask mrs K to do something, when i can do it? if i dont have the energy to do it, how do i expect her to do it? inspite of that, mrs K does more and much more work than i do at home. not that i cannot do it, but to her, it is 'her way of doing things', and i leave it at that. every little while, i offer to help, and she demurs. but if i keep quiet, knowing that my offer will be refused, all hell breaks loose. 'there is no help for me' she would wail, but once it is offered, it will be refused. for sure. i guess, that is her way of coping with the overwork.

i agree with sangom, that GE is impossibility. but from a perspective of a woman. she has added natural functions - child bearing and all the work that goes along with it. a human child has minimum 5 years before it can feed on its own, and 18 before it can fend for itself. all along, it is the mom they want, not the dad. this is a fact. so, while i hope the scale of justice, treats the male and the female equally, i would be very happy, if every once in a while, it tilts on the side of the woman. that would make me happy

 

[Raji Ram]

Wonderful post.

:yo:

 

[sangom]

thank you sangom for your input. i did not mean this post as 'for men only', but wanted input from our favourite 4 - visa and renuka i guess did not want to oblige

raji, the west is ahead in social thinking by a few decades, i think. the western woman was very much like the indian woman, in the performance of labour. it was in scandinavia, that benchmark of equality, that the concept of GE started in the late 40s and early 50s.

if one did not have a wife, how much it would cost to perform each of the household tasks..they put a money value - and found that not many houses could afford to pay for the services. the wife came cheap, and add to it, also provided sexual services what a great ride for the guy.

all this made sense when the guy went out to kill a beast or toil in the fields. nowadays with kushi office jobs, there is no rationale for the guy to sit on arse and order a hot Boost on arriving home. particularly when the woman also goes to work 9 to 5. she has the same stress and hardships as the man.

even in neeya naana, i see the attitude of the men, very chauvinistic by my standards. and these are supposed to be 'understanding'. one tamil muslim couple, a few weeks ago, the wife would be satisfied, if the hubby did not beat her. that is all her expectation. even gopinath who jumps on any gender inequality, was embarassed not to pursue the man. i only guess that him being a muslim, mattered. my heart went out for the poor lady..as i was sure, that when she went home, she got something waiting for him.

the concept of GE, is simple to me: can i ask mrs K to do something, when i can do it? if i dont have the energy to do it, how do i expect her to do it? inspite of that, mrs K does more and much more work than i do at home. not that i cannot do it, but to her, it is 'her way of doing things', and i leave it at that. every little while, i offer to help, and she demurs. but if i keep quiet, knowing that my offer will be refused, all hell breaks loose. 'there is no help for me' she would wail, but once it is offered, it will be refused. for sure. i guess, that is her way of coping with the overwork.

i agree with sangom, that GE is impossibility. but from a perspective of a woman. she has added natural functions - child bearing and all the work that goes along with it. a human child has minimum 5 years before it can feed on its own, and 18 before it can fend for itself. all along, it is the mom they want, not the dad. this is a fact. so, while i hope the scale of justice, treats the male and the female equally, i would be very happy, if every once in a while, it tilts on the side of the woman. that would make me happy

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

Women (wives) were real assets for the family in the old testament by which I mean the old dispensation. This was not probably recognized for a long time due to many reasons which we need not discuss now.

Right from my time - about 50 years or so - the value of a housewife was recognized, though the extent & quality of such recognition would have varied, as is but natural, from household to household. Since both myself and my wife come from the same kerala tabra background and also from the same extended family (she is my cousin third removed, maternally), we knew the worth of each other and there has not been any quarrel or tiff in regard to my not offering her a helping hand in the household jobs. Of course we now belong to the waste-basket generation and our philosophy of life need not be workable today.

The main point is that in our house there was no looking down on household work; in fact I even now like to do certain items in the kitchen like making dosas, making fried items (now practically discontinued because it is not suitable to health), experimenting with new recipes, etc. As Smt. Raji's post says, "Members in a family should trust others and be trustworthy to others! " and our household satisfies this requirement.

Today's households seem to have strayed a lot from the above - as I see from my sons' households - but it is not for me to comment on that. The only feature that I notice is that, in the name of gender equality, the wife's position has moved to the one described here, imho, and that may not be gender equality but (female) gender dominance.

Those who practice GE need no further dose of preaching and those who don't are not going to be swayed by such discussions. That is my feeling please. This topic, therefore, need not be discussed in this Forum, according to me.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Kunjuppu,

The notion of "gender equality" (GE) is an unachievable, utopian concept, imo. Shri KRS said that he suspects me to be a misogynist, but you probably know I am not one.

We can have only gender compatibility at a social level, talking of large numbers of people - like a state in India, or a country; at the household level it may become "gender adjustment"; the present concept of GE for which there is much clamour nowadays looks like a demand - to nature - to end the physiological, mental, intellectual, emotional, etc., between the males and females and bring out some sort of "unisex" creatures who will not be able to procreate in the wat nature designed man & woman.

The law of the land, the constitution, etc., can be and should be 'gender neutral' and since these are human constructs, it can be done. It has been so in India also. But the ground reality is very different and only if people who are experts in anthropological history should perhaps analyze the indian population, group by group and suggest methods to bring in norms for gender compatibility or adjustability.

As you know monogamy is a late entrant in human history and polygyny was there before that, but polyandry seems to have been the most prominent. (According to Gordon G. Gallup, human penile shape is indicative of an evolutionary history of polyandry. Male humans evolved to have a wedge- or spoon-shaped glans and to perform repeated thrusting motions during copulation in order to draw foreign semen back away from the cervix and thus to compete with sperm of other males.—Polyandry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Hence, the present day indian societies (castes may be a rough indicator, perhaps) may have had different histories of sexual evolution. It is not possible to bring in any gender equality, merely by registration and/or proselytization, and real scientific research needs to be done in this area.

I feel that we are witnessing the increasing incidence of sex-related crimes exactly because of this misdirected attempt to bring in the vague GE just by fiat/s.

PS: You wanted only the lady members to respond. But seeing that some male members also have replied, I am giving my views. This post may be ignored, if so considered.

Wonderful post Shri.Sangom!! :thumb:

I believe in same.

 

[C RAVI]

Good human who were doing their duties, never used to complain about what they do! That is, a good man who earns

for his family, never considered himself as a money making machine but was happy that he provides for his family.

If he drives his car for his family, he did not consider himself as a driver of the family. Similarly, a good lady never used

to complain that she is only a cook and servant of the house but thought she provides healthy food for her family and

help them live comfortably.

But now, this basic thinking of humans have changed! Evolution or revolution??

If one prepares food for the family, he / she = a cook. So, cook ONLY for yourself.

If one drives the car for others in the family, he / she = a driver. So, drive ONLY for yourself.

If one washes the cloths of family members in a washing machine, he / she = dhobi. So, wash ONLY your cloths!

And so on............ If caring and sharing exist between the members of a family, it is sure to be a happy family.

Members in a family should trust others and be trustworthy to others! I consider this as the real gender equality! :high5:

:thumb:

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

Women (wives) were real assets for the family in the old testament by which I mean the old dispensation. This was not probably recognized for a long time due to many reasons which we need not discuss now.

Right from my time - about 50 years or so - the value of a housewife was recognized, though the extent & quality of such recognition would have varied, as is but natural, from household to household. Since both myself and my wife come from the same kerala tabra background and also from the same extended family (she is my cousin third removed, maternally), we knew the worth of each other and there has not been any quarrel or tiff in regard to my not offering her a helping hand in the household jobs. Of course we now belong to the waste-basket generation and our philosophy of life need not be workable today.

The main point is that in our house there was no looking down on household work; in fact I even now like to do certain items in the kitchen like making dosas, making fried items (now practically discontinued because it is not suitable to health), experimenting with new recipes, etc. As Smt. Raji's post says, "Members in a family should trust others and be trustworthy to others! " and our household satisfies this requirement.

Today's households seem to have strayed a lot from the above - as I see from my sons' households - but it is not for me to comment on that. The only feature that I notice is that, in the name of gender equality, the wife's position has moved to the one described here, imho, and that may not be gender equality but (female) gender dominance.

Those who practice GE need no further dose of preaching and those who don't are not going to be swayed by such discussions. That is my feeling please. This topic, therefore, need not be discussed in this Forum, according to me.

:thumb:

 

[kunjuppu]

..
Those who practice GE need no further dose of preaching and those who don't are not going to be swayed by such discussions. That is my feeling please. This topic, therefore, need not be discussed in this Forum, according to me.

dear sangom,

as we have often discussed, the purpose, atleast to me, is not conversion, to my pov. or the other way around. i, for one, believe, that each one, has his/her own views formed as a result of reading, viewing, and lifetime experiences through myriads of influences unique to each.

so, may be we can agree, that we are not in the proselytizing business. let us leave that to the professionals.

my purpose, apart from the joy of writing and expressing myself, is to give myself an opportunity, to understand. myself. many a times, i do not pre think about what i am going to write, but find the title of the post, who started and who contributed, a catalyst to read and in the process get kindled with responses.

hopefully your view of the forum is the same, considering the wide viewpoints that you yourself have enunciated...and over time i have found progressive changes of some of your views, towards what i would term as progressiveness. if i remember right, long ago, you had presumed that i was propagating IC/IR marriages (which itself was a wrong assumption according to me) to now, i think and i may be wrong here, you have a more mellow view. i am only quoting this as an example, and not to start an arguement.

the forum, like internet, accommodates all views, and if you feel that you the topic is anethema to you, i would recommend that you avoid the thread. to prescribe such, 'need not be discussed in this Forum', to me, is more a reflection of one's own self importance to dictate what should/should not be in the forum.

many of the topics here i find i dont like. and others dont interest me. i just skip them, for there are others who are interested in those. i respect that, and that is the right attitude, i think. not to whole dismiss it as unworthy of discussion, and condemn it, while contributing to it in the first place.

thank you.

 

[sangom]

dear sangom,

as we have often discussed, the purpose, atleast to me, is not conversion, to my pov. or the other way around. i, for one, believe, that each one, has his/her own views formed as a result of reading, viewing, and lifetime experiences through myriads of influences unique to each.

so, may be we can agree, that we are not in the proselytizing business. let us leave that to the professionals.

my purpose, apart from the joy of writing and expressing myself, is to give myself an opportunity, to understand. many a times, i do not pre think about what i am going to write, but find the title of the post, who started and who contributed, a catalyst to read and in the process get kindled with responses.

hopefully your view of the forum is the same, considering the wide viewpoints that you yourself have enunciated...and over time i have found progressive changes of some of your views, towards what i would term as progressiveness. if i remember right, long ago, you had presumed that i was propagating IC/IR marriages (which itself was a wrong assumption according to me) to now, i think and i may be wrong here, you have a more mellow view. i am only quoting this as an example, and not to start an arguement.

the forum, like internet, accommodates all views, and if you feel that you the topic is anethema to you, i would recommend that you avoid the thread. to prescribe such, 'need not be discussed in this Forum', to me, is more a reflection of one's own self importance to dictate what should/should not be in the forum.

many of the topics here i find i dont like. and others dont interest me. i just skip them, for there are others who are interested in those. i respect that, and that is the right attitude, i think. not to whole dismiss it as unworthy of discussion, and condemn it, while contributing to it in the first place.

thank you.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I am sorry my words, 'need not be discussed in this Forum', gave you the feeling that I am talking with a sense of "self importance" and trying to dictate what should/should not be in the forum. I had no such idea. However I did feel that discussion of such topics in the forum may not do any significant benefit to the indian society as it is today. Just as you pointed out the instance in the neeya naana episode, we may still have extremely male chauvinistic households (most north indian rural households and those under the Khapp panchayats, the households of the type you pointed out, and many others are examples.). Those who have gone beyond and have become the avante garde of GE are also there. But I have absolutely no objection to any topic being discussed here.

Kindly excuse me for my deficiency in expression.

 

[C RAVI]

i agree with sangom, that GE is impossibility. but from a perspective of a woman. she has added natural functions - child bearing and all the work that goes along with it. a human child has minimum 5 years before it can feed on its own, and 18 before it can fend for itself. all along, it is the mom they want, not the dad. this is a fact. so, while i hope the scale of justice, treats the male and the female equally, i would be very happy, if every once in a while, it tilts on the side of the woman. that would make me happy

She Kunjuppu,

I understand the gist of your post. This certainly would make females exclusively special and giving such an impression to them by men is certainly encourage able and appreciable.

When a man and woman live together as husband and wife in a marriage institute with belief and respect to family commitments, responsibilities and sharing, each one should recognize, acknowledge and appreciate each others role.

A Mother basically is more happy to nurture her baby. She would prefer to be attending to her baby much more than her husband. A mother is naturally inclined towards nurturing her baby with all her love and care even if her husband is reluctant towards such expression of love and care towards the baby. A mother feels happy to have conceived a baby, delivered a baby and nurtured the baby and continues to remain like a shadow of the child, no matter how old the child grows, praying, wishing and supporting her child until she is alive.

That's why a female is so respectable and adorable who is ambidextrous and emotionally/intellectually/psychologically much talented to effectively contribute for her family in a marriage institution, balancing the needs of every family members. Females are the ones who gives meaning to a healthy family and healthy society. They deserve hats off from all male species. And, there are females as wives, who are receiving such acknowledgement from their husbands.

A Man, as a husband who could sense the greatness of women and don't separate himself from his wife and children are down to earth in their dedication towards the betterment of the whole family.

I would like to refer to a dialogue delivered by Sridevi in a movie - "English-Vinglish", with which I totally agree -

"In a family No One is Big and No One Is Small"

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I am sorry my words, 'need not be discussed in this Forum', gave you the feeling that I am talking with a sense of "self importance" and trying to dictate what should/should not be in the forum. I had no such idea. However I did feel that discussion of such topics in the forum may not do any significant benefit to the indian society as it is today. Just as you pointed out the instance in the neeya naana episode, we may still have extremely male chauvinistic households (most north indian rural households and those under the Khapp panchayats, the households of the type you pointed out, and many others are examples.). Those who have gone beyond and have become the avante garde of GE are also there. But I have absolutely no objection to any topic being discussed here.

Kindly excuse me for my deficiency in expression.

thank you sangom. No Problem at all

 

[kunjuppu]

dear ravi,

re your post #18: let me try to explain, that the underlying purpose of this thread, is not about women at all. it is about us. men. you.me. sangom.KRS. and a whole of us who are males. more so, if you want me to target an audience, married men. only because, all of us in that state, have had live in experience with women.

i wish to empasize the 'men' in us, mainly from a viewpoint of attitude. because nobody questioned till recently about what we thought of women. even my twenties, i had 100s of women's parents apply to an ad in the hindu, with a desire to marry me. i took it for granted, that i can pick and choose, and ultimately mrs K was chosen through a random meeting. to me, it was all laid on a platter, and somewhere along the way, maybe because of where i live, maybe because i have situations in my family re my girl cousin or perhaps my own inherent sense of equality - i have thought often of how much work i do, and what is fair re division of labour.

i am going to give two examples. one what sangom mentioned. this is an example, and not a reflection of sangom. it could be anybody. i am only using sangom's name because, in another post here, sangom mentioned he helped his wife, and as an example, said that on occassions he made dosai for her. let us stop at that.

to make a dosai, the process involves, starting with raw rice ulundu, soaking in water, grinding, fermenting, sambhar, chutney, molga podi, heating the kori, and pouring the batter, oiling and turning the dosa, putting the batter back into the fridge/cupboard, cleaning the tava, plate etc. now making the dosa, is two of the above 14 or so proceses (there are more). doing 2 if one considered sufficient help and he is happy for doing his share. that is us men.

even closer to home. we make stir fry often. vegetarian stir fry involves chopping a whole selection of veggies carefully in comparable sizes per its cooking point, and this takes about an hour in our household. the cooking process itself, is superheating the wok (40,000 btu burner) for a minute with some oil, dumping the veggies and some sauces, and tossing it for about 3 - 4 minutes. the veggies cook well on the surface, while keeping the flavour and juices and goodness inside. i do the stir frying while mrs K slogs for 1 hour to enable to get the glory of delivering the product.

there is no right or wrong in either instance. you must understand that. but i cannot say that i have done equal work to mrs K because 1 hours chopping labour and 5 minutes of grandeur posing in front of a wok is not the same. so, in a way to makeup, i go one step further. i insist and do, the cleanup and dry and put away all the vessels and the dishes, with conscripted )) assistance from my children.

hope the above two makes sense in that, we men, we do some work, and increasingly more so, and soon get complacent, that we have treated our females equally and these should be very happy with such treatment, and have no cause for complaint. chances are most of our spouses will not complain. will not even mutter.

but i think, as men, we need to ask ourselves, 'are we really doing the maximum we are able to'. left alone, can we do the same amount of work, which our wives do? again there are no right or wrong or 'should be' or 'should have' answers. it depends on each person and his own sense of honour. again, i would like to quote sangom's example (and it is only an example and not a reflection on sangom) - next time after making the dosa, if sangom helps put away all the stuff, or does something more, would he be rewarded with an extra smile from the mrs?

i would like to apologize to sangom for using his name here. but i figured i could explain to ravi, re the intention is not how we treat women. but what is our own attitudes towards women - it is all about us. men. again, i think, all of us are good. but the question here, is to understand how much we measure our goodness, and unknowingly calculate, that this amount is good enough. i wish to push that line further. and further. till we cannot push it anymore. our biggest challenge is our own sense of complacency. our level of sensitivity. that is all.

hope this somewhat makes sense, ravi. thanks.

 

[prasad1]

I agree with the op of the thread.

 

[amala]

While K sir talks about pushing the boundaries and being sensitive to women, I'm wondering on the other extreme. Imagine men who are single and cook for themselves or eat in "hotels" daily. As soon as they get a missus, they just cannot wait to heap the cooking on her. Only because they have had to do it for so long themselves. One cannot fault them in anyway as per our culture what is a missus for anyway! right?, and yet, its quite scary!

 

[kkumar29]

Mr Kunjuppu,

Your post #20. What you have mentioned in your post is true because there is a predetermined expectation as to how the chores are done in a household. This view gets formed over the lifetime before marriage based on various factors. Education, family background, economic status, geography etc.

In some cases like mine, there were absolutely no expectations, so we formed our own rules as we went along. Because there were no expectations, it was easy to discuss things openly, flare up if something wasn't done because one partner expected and the other didn't do it. Over time you settle to your own norms and you start sharing things equally. There were times when my wife's professional carrier took a backseat, and there were times when my professional carrier took a back seat. Similar adjustments were made in every walk of married life, including changing nappies for the babies. Now I am retired and my wife continues to work. I took care of my grandchildren, from morning 8 AM to 7 PM, from the time they were 3 months old, while my wife, daughter and son-in-law went to work. In essence I was performing a "traditional" woman's role.

What I am trying to say here is that it is all up to the men as to how receptive and how far they are willing to redefine their roles to accommodate their partners. Different folks are comfortable with different levels and as long as their partners are happy with it, then they have pushed the boundaries further as you have stated.

Cheers,
K. Kumar

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Mr Kunjuppu,


Because there were no expectations, it was easy to discuss things openly,

Cheers,
K. Kumar

Sir, I agree with your pov. In my case, since I was running from dawn to dusk to meet both ends, my wife took to drivers seat. There is no issues like pushing the bundaries, crossing the limit, rubbing on the wrong side, etc. As you said it is mutual. When I posed this question to her, her reply was, as has been said by RR Mam, she is performing her duties as 'Illattharasi'. IMHO it is all mind set that matters.

 

[Raji Ram]

Sir, I agree with your pov. In my case, since I was running from dawn to dusk to meet both ends, my wife took to drivers seat. There is no issues like pushing the bundaries, crossing the limit, rubbing on the wrong side, etc. As you said it is mutual. When I posed this question to her, her reply was, as has been said by RR Mam, she is performing her duties as 'Illattharasi'. IMHO it is all mind set that matters.

You are blessed Balu Sir!