God Exists

[DrBarani]

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Renuka,

I am not sure if any scientific knowledge exists on this. My guess would be thoughts travel instantly anywhere and in fact should be everywhere in space instantly since it is mental energy. The reason we do not receive others thoughts could be because of varying frequencies of each person's thoughts. Thoughts that have a constant energy and not confined to any frequency I would say is spiritual in nature.

... Shadows can travel faster than light. And in a dense medium light can travel slower than sound. Nobody who has studied physics considers these as abnormal. One need not even visit the spiritual world for such special situations. Apparent violations of common knowledge do exist all around us. Some of us even participate in them.

 

[renuka]

... Shadows can travel faster than light. And in a dense medium light can travel slower than sound. Nobody who has studied physics considers these as abnormal. One need not even visit the spiritual world for such special situations. Apparent violations of common knowledge do exist all around us. Some of us even participate in them.

Thank you Dr Barani.

 

[Maniya]

My belief is that both the atheist and the theist will go to any extent to prove God exists and God doesn't exist respectively, without either of them being sure, if their thinking is 100% correct.

 

[renuka]

My belief is that both the atheist and the theist will go to any extent to prove God exists and God doesn't exist respectively, without either of them being sure, if their thinking is 100% correct.

Maniya you are spot on!! You have just described Delusion of Grandeur,Delusion of Persecution and Bipolar Disorder.
Thats why when we are done in this thread we get back our sanity relaxing at the Tamil Kutthu Songs section.

 

[DrBarani]

My belief is that both the atheist and the theist will go to any extent to prove God exists and God doesn't exist respectively, without either of them being sure, if their thinking is 100% correct.

Generally true. However, I haven't come across Hindu (Buddhist, Jain, even Islam) theists spending all their time in atheist forums trying to argue/insult nonbelievers, though I have seen christian radicals spend considerable effort and money to go after atheists.

 

[subbudu1]

We have had many conversations between those that say God exists and those that dont!

Let is see how a debate will happen in this forum between a person who is a non-believer in Science(N) and a Scientist (Dr)

N: Prove to me Science Exists. You cannot use scientific reasoning to prove science exists.

Dr: Well there are many laws that are known to be true, experiments have been conducted and lots of books and papers have been written by many

N: I have been through a few of the books - it is all filled with greek symbols ; It has no meaning - inane stuff. I am not sure if these symbols will last many more years

Dr: They are not symbols, you have to learn mathematics because that is the language of science

N: Tell me I dont know, put me down - there is this conspiracy for people of Science to feel exclusive, and they use all these greek symbols so they can feel exclusive and feel superior. Can you summarize it in simple terms - tell me why I should know Science Exists. I will only accept clear and cogent explanation

Dr: Well there is this scientific method - Newton was a great scientist and his work is seminal ..

N: I have heard about Newton, I know - but let us be honest - I dont want any of these handed down wisdom! Can you describe simply that Science exists

Dr: Let us take Newton - An apple fell on his head and he asked why the apple should fall - it is a human curiosity and then he approached with study as to why it fell ..

N: wait - there is problem right there ..

Dr. What?

N: How do you automatically assume that apple hit Newton's head. It is possible that Newton's head might have hit the apple too?

Dr: Well, Newton was sitting or standing and how could he go up

N: Well there is this paradox .. It is possible that there is universal law of expansion - everything could expand equally that no one is aware because proportionally perception is the same. So if Newton's head could have expanded and hit the apple. So we really cant tell if apple hit Newton's head or Newton's head hit the apple. This is a paradox that cannot be answered - there cannot be any science. I do agree that something happened between Apple and Newton's head. Until we know what the answer is I will remain agnostic ..

Dr: Speechless - Not sure you can get this

N: **8@#&

Dr: **(0#$

N: This is not getting anywhere - how can you say **(0#$; total put down and I am appalled

Dr: well it was generally said for fun

N: Let us maintain a decorum, we have talked for a while and yet there are no answers. Let us restart the discussions !
...

...

,,,



N: How about another round of discussion .. This time let us stick to the topic!

This conversation is in bad taste.As the writer has preconceived the responses of Nara, giving no weight-age to his reasonable responses. Having known Nara for sometime, I am well aware of his conduct as a gentleman even with whom he disagrees. Nara has never indulged in anything so stupid as described in this conversation.

Nara would be the last person to throw away Newton. We all Know we agree with Newton to the extent it matches with evidence, and his views are popular not because they have been handed down since the ages, but they can be correlated with later developments in science and have a lot of mathematical work to present reasonable clarity of thought.

All in all in bad taste. It is very unbecoming that some of our TBS have reached this low a level and indulge is such low things.

 

[renuka]

This conversation is in bad taste.As the writer has preconceived the responses of Nara, giving no weight-age to his reasonable responses. Having known Nara for sometime, I am well aware of his conduct as a gentleman even with whom he disagrees. Nara has never indulged in anything so stupid as described in this conversation.

Nara would be the last person to throw away Newton. We all Know we agree with Newton to the extent it matches with evidence, and his views are popular not because they have been handed down since the ages, but they can be correlated with later developments in science and have a lot of mathematical work to present reasonable clarity of thought.

All in all in bad taste. It is very unbecoming that some of our TBS have reached this low a level and indulge is such low things.

Just want to share this.

The post never mentions Nara's name anywhere.On technical ground TKS had NOT implicated Nara.

 

[C RAVI]

Ironically, some conversations are found in bad taste, selectively and attempted to shape them as low level tactics...

 

[renuka]

Dear Subuddu,

By assuming that Mr N in that post is referring to whom you think it is then the ground is open for another round of Questions.

Starting with: Can you proof that Mr N is Who you think it is?

 

[DrBarani]

This conversation is in bad taste.

Look Sir, humour always comes at a cost to someone. I request people to take these things sportively.

If you go back to one of my very first posts in this forum I have stated that atheists are very intelligent people. It seems like when such certificates are given they are taken up silently, but when criticism is offered atheists get rather agitated even when they aren't specifically pointed at. There is a certain level of hypocrisy there.

Mr.Nara is guilty of accusing me time and again that this 'superior logic' is in my mind in spite of myself citing established research work on developments in mathematical logic. If one is a good academician he should not brush aside the cited research papers. That refusal is what lead Mr.TKS to reduce the behaviour into denying Newton. You can't hold TKS for making humour out of it. Mr.Nara should not have rejected scientific journals and research papers. He lowered himself. TKS showed him where he stands.

From my side, I didn't bother to respond to Mr.Nara and others as I frequently don't dignify bad behaviours with responses.

ShivKC also showed their hypocrisy. It was ok when Nara used "middlefinger" argument directly at someone. It is not ok I used it in a joke? Some of you are pretty amazing with your unbalanced views.

 

[sravna]

Definition 3:

Physical connectedness: "An entity is physically connected if it has parts and those parts are held together as a unit. This unit represents that entity. Thus the entity exists as a unit in space. The parts are held together because there is a natural affinity between them."

eg. atoms, molecules, compounds etc.

Definition 4:

Mental connectedness: "Two entities are mentally connected if there is a natural affinity between them."

Just like compatibility between physical things there is compatibility between the mental ones.

This would manifest in thoughts resonating with one another.

Definition 5

Spiritual connectedness: "Connectedness of everything"

Notes: Extreme types of thoughts

1. Pulsed and extremely high frequency thoughts
eg. Perfect lower intelligence, Totally selfish
2. Constant energy thoughts
eg. Perfect higher intelligence, Totally Selfless

Perfect physical connectedness bears a mental entity
eg. human body

perfect mental connectedness bears a spiritual entity.
eg. an enlightened mind.

A mental entity has no parts in space i.e., it is everywhere in space but not fully united in time. A spiritual entity is a unit in all of time too.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Mr.Nara,

Sir, If you are asking me to show you God in physical frame, well, I can not do it.
I can not show you or enable you to see God. God is not an object to be seen.
He is the subject. He is the seer. Here we are concerned with the objects that can
be seen. Find out who is the seer and He is God. You are God, so am I and so are
others.

If you are looking for some mathematical equation or physical laws or chemical
formulas, I must say I am unable to give any such proof. I go by the words of the great Masters who have experienced it.

This is something to be experienced within. I can't show you mine ; it is not
possible. You will have to try it yourself.

Even if I have seen Him and bring Him along with me and introduce Him to you -
Sir, Here is Mr. God whom you want to see -, are you going to believe that He is
God. You will ask for his id proof.

If I have experienced the supreme BLISS ( call it by any name ), I do not think I
will be sittting here and typing this message ! I am far, far away in my pursuit.
If the Ultimate is realized, discussions would end.

Here is one stanza of a siddha , by name Sivavakkiar :

ஓடிஓடி ஓடிஓடி உள்கலந்த ஜோதியை
நாடிநாடி நாடிநாடி நாட்களும் கழிந்துபோய்
வாடிவாடி வாடிவாடி மாண்டுபோன மாந்தர்கள்
கோடிகோடி கோடிகோடி எண்ணி்றந்த கோடியே

 

[C RAVI]

Look Sir, humour always comes at a cost to someone. I request people to take these things sportively.

If you go back to one of my very first posts in this forum I have stated that atheists are very intelligent people. It seems like when such certificates are given they are taken up silently, but when criticism is offered atheists get rather agitated even when they aren't specifically pointed at. There is a certain level of hypocrisy there.

Mr.Nara is guilty of accusing me time and again that this 'superior logic' is in my mind in spite of myself citing established research work on developments in mathematical logic. If one is a good academician he should not brush aside the cited research papers. That refusal is what lead Mr.TKS to reduce the behaviour into denying Newton. You can't hold TKS for making humour out of it. Mr.Nara should not have rejected scientific journals and research papers. He lowered himself. TKS showed him where he stands.

From my side, I didn't bother to respond to Mr.Nara and others as I frequently don't dignify bad behaviours with responses.

ShivKC also showed their hypocrisy. It was ok when Nara used "middlefinger" argument directly at someone. It is not ok I used it in a joke? Some of you are pretty amazing with your unbalanced views.

Dr.Barani,

This unbalanced views, I am noticing in "Black & White", from the time I joined this forum (August, 2009)

 

[subbudu1]

It is upto individual conscience but I remember a similar discussion between Nara and tks when an imaginary conversation was produced.
If Tks is not guilty of imitation well and good. If Nara himself is convinced it is not an intention to imitate him, I am ready to fully apologize

I am highlighting the clear phrases( in my view in bold) and will wait for Nara's judgement. On other statements they are rather indirect but one who has observed the earlier arguments it seems quite clear that it is an imitation of a style and there are just a few words that need to be replaced here and there for an Argument between an atheist and a believer, not an argument between a non believer in science and a scientist!. Why not choose A and B instead of N and Dr. Or why not choose N and S?, since the discussion is supposed to be between a non-believer and a Scientist? It cannot be casual or innocent or a silly mistake.

As I say if Nara agrees it is is not an attempt to make fun of him, I quit with full apology , no going back!
If it is however not agreed ( that this is a mockery) by Nara, I refuse to change my opinion even at the risk of banishment from the forum!

I will not hesitate to speak my view if I am certain about it, no matter the cost associated with it!

Just want to share this.

The post never mentions Nara's name anywhere.On technical ground TKS had NOT implicated Nara.

We have had many conversations between those that say God exists and those that dont!

Let is see how a debate will happen in this forum between a person who is a non-believer in Science(N) and a Scientist (Dr)

N: Prove to me Science Exists. You cannot use scientific reasoning to prove science exists.

Dr: Well there are many laws that are known to be true, experiments have been conducted and lots of books and papers have been written by many

N: I have been through a few of the books - it is all filled with greek symbols ; It has no meaning - inane stuff. I am not sure if these symbols will last many more years

Dr: They are not symbols, you have to learn mathematics because that is the language of science

N: Tell me I dont know, put me down - there is this conspiracy for people of Science to feel exclusive, and they use all these greek symbols so they can feel exclusive and feel superior. Can you summarize it in simple terms - tell me why I should know Science Exists. I will only accept clear and cogent explanation

Dr: Well there is this scientific method - Newton was a great scientist and his work is seminal ..

N: I have heard about Newton, I know - but let us be honest - I dont want any of these handed down wisdom! Can you describe simply that Science exists

Dr: Let us take Newton - An apple fell on his head and he asked why the apple should fall - it is a human curiosity and then he approached with study as to why it fell ..

N: wait - there is problem right there ..

Dr. What?

N: How do you automatically assume that apple hit Newton's head. It is possible that Newton's head might have hit the apple too?

Dr: Well, Newton was sitting or standing and how could he go up

N: Well there is this paradox .. It is possible that there is universal law of expansion - everything could expand equally that no one is aware because proportionally perception is the same. So if Newton's head could have expanded and hit the apple. So we really cant tell if apple hit Newton's head or Newton's head hit the apple. This is a paradox that cannot be answered - there cannot be any science. I do agree that something happened between Apple and Newton's head. Until we know what the answer is I will remain agnostic ..

Dr: Speechless - Not sure you can get this

N: **8@#&

Dr: **(0#$

N: This is not getting anywhere - how can you say **(0#$; total put down and I am appalled

Dr: well it was generally said for fun

N: Let us maintain a decorum, we have talked for a while and yet there are no answers. Let us restart the discussions !
...

...

,,,



N: How about another round of discussion .. This time let us stick to the topic!

 

[DrBarani]

Dr.Barani,

This unbalanced views, I am noticing in "Black & White", from the time I joined this forum (August, 2009)

Their desperate attempt to shut down threads (see how Renu's Sai thread got moved), disrupt a natural flow of conversation, going in circular arguments, all with the ulterior goal of only mocking believers. That is not going to succeed.

 

[DrBarani]

I am ready to fully apologize

Dear Sir, you should not have to apologize for anything, nor be banished for anything. I do not see you have committed any such sin that deserves either of those two.

If Mr.Nara is upset he will directly challenge Mr.TKS. They will fight it out if they want to. We should keep out. That is my humble opinion.

 

[zebra16]

All in all in bad taste. It is very unbecoming that some of our TBS have reached this low a level and indulge is such low things.

Yes. Very true.... But how about this one ... ?

I dont understand this theory really but I think these ideas need to be patented? Since I dont understand I cannot even criticize or praise.
How about the title for these related theories-
"Sravna's arithmetic progression of energy,selflessness,god and advaita"
Sorry for the humour it is not meant as a ridicule but your theories are so unique and new that they need a title.

You pretend not to have read Sri Sravana's response to this message

 

[suraju06]

Dear folk,

After some time I came to read this thread. For a moment I was wondering what has happened to this forum. It appeared as if it has been hijacked or taken over by Americans. Every one was trying to tell us the meaning of an American middle finger mudra. And they were invariably mentioning the cus word F and U. I am an Indian and I live in India. I have lived most of my life in India and intend to do it for the rest of my life. It is just repulsive to read all this nonsense ( as to what an american or a Canadian or a Timbucktuian understands or means when a middle finger is shown at him). Now I am happy that the discussion has meandered back to its original path. It is interesting that the member who objected to the use of this middlefinger mudra even in a lighter sense has disengaged when some one dug up the archives and threw at him the evidence of his own use of this mudra. Well this discussion of 'God Exists' is getting more and more interesting and is quite revealing also. This is possible only in this community. Well done folk.
Cheers.

 

[subbudu1]

Yes. Very true.... But how about this one ... ?



You pretend not to have read Sri Sravana's response to this message

I have directly responded to Sravna and expressed my view about his theories to none other than to him. There is no intention to create an imaginary discussion and make light of things that were never said.

I do agree that this digression with an apology added in advance could still hurt somebody but frankly this is the best response that could be made to arguments that go beyond rational discussion and yet packaged as arithmetic or logical points. I have the right to discuss an opinion directly with the concerned person, if I genuinely feel it does not make sense.

 

[DrBarani]

but frankly this is the best response that could be made to arguments that go beyond rational discussion

You meant to say Your best Response

Actually, no, mocking at someone is not the best response. And getting upset over a parody, is not the best reaction.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

A comedian makes a prank.
The hero picks up the clue and takes the plunge.
The villain comes in his way and challenges the hero.
Hero has got his group of friends and the villain has got his own group.
Both camps have fights
Emotions in between - drama, accusation, apology
Philosophy like Vedanta
Sci-fi like number theories
Carricature showing real life personalities
Comedy pieces
Meaningful songs....
Shot mainly in both India and the U.S. besides scenes in Malaysia, Dubai, South Africa, etc.

Well. Wonder which movie is this? It is this very thread, "God exists". It has had nearly 400 posts (read days!), a 5 star rating and a good number of audience. I would not be surpirised if Mr.Kunjuppu reviews this "movie" in his thread "movie madness".:tea:

If even a thread on God in TB forum can have such an impact, I tend to believe that God deos exist!

 

[subbudu1]

You meant to say Your best Response

Actually, no, mocking at someone is not the best response. And getting upset over a parody, is not the best reaction.

As I have said I have directly criticized the existing view expressed by the concerned writer. If criticism with satire peppered in, is mockery then mockery it is. I am directly implicated the moment I have said that and Sravna was able to respond in equal terms as he knew he was being addressed.

In this case it is not just a satire filled criticism, it is as though the person pretends not to criticize and yet he does it and then he does what produces a conversation that does not exist. There is sufficient difference between the direct confrontation as it happens in a war, and prowling in the night like an owl and kill your enemies .

 

[DrBarani]

As I have said I have directly criticized the existing view expressed by the concerned writer. If criticism with satire peppered in, is mockery then mockery it is. I am directly implicated the moment I have said that and Sravna was able to respond in equal terms as he knew he was being addressed.

In this case it is not just a satire filled criticism, it is as though the person pretends not to criticize and yet he does it and then he does what produces a conversation that does not exist. There is sufficient difference between the direct confrontation as it happens in a war, and prowling in the night like an owl and kill your enemies .

It is your view that direct mocking is somehow a better behaviour than indirect parody. I disagree.

Besides, you are not party to that parody written by Mr.TKS. You shouldn't be upset like this. I think the forum rules about it are very clear - we must keep out of personal disputes between two people. This is why most of us didn't get in between you and Sravna. We were confident you two can sort it out.

What I am really hoping is, either Mr.Nara or yourself come out with another creative parody. You can make me seem like fool, I welcome that. I will even appreciate it for creativity.

 

[zebra16]

I have directly responded to Sravna and expressed my view about his theories to none other than to him. There is no intention to create an imaginary discussion and make light of things that were never said.

I do agree that this digression with an apology added in advance could still hurt somebody but frankly this is the best response that could be made to arguments that go beyond rational discussion and yet packaged as arithmetic or logical points. I have the right to discuss an opinion directly with the concerned person, if I genuinely feel it does not make sense.

Your explanation does not cut much ice. By responding in this forum you are not just addressing Sri Sravana alone and Sri Sravana's original post was not addressed to you, in the first place, to claim that your views about his theories were to none other than for him.

To say that apology in advance for the ridicule or mockery takes out the sting of the response is wishful thinking, but it (advance apology) rather enforces the opinion of the author to press forth his opinion, notwithstanding the likelyhood of feelings of hurt or humilation by the receipient.

 

[subbudu1]

To say that apology in advance for the ridicule or mockery takes out the sting of the response is wishful thinking, but it (advance apology) rather enforces the opinion of the author to press forth his opinion, notwithstanding the likelyhood of feelings of hurt or humilation by the receipient.

Fair enough I accept that statement and that I am implicated by it as I have already said so earlier. Notwithstanding my different stands with Sravna, and my critiscism or sarcasm, I have not had anything worse than an argumentative relationship with him, thanks largely to a behavior of patience by Sravna. I have much to disagree with him but a lot of praise for his perseverance and tirelessness.

Sravna I hope you make note of it, that this was an uncontrolled burst of my views when I read your theory of numeral one and its gradual progression towards God. If there is any more distaste left in you, after this, I apologize , sincerely and whole heartedly.