God Exists

[Yamaka]

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Just a point of clarification: Are we talking only of Hindu gods and mythology here?

Or are we dealing with Vishnu, Allah, Zeus, and the Holy Trinity all rolled into one?

Surely the other religions have a say here, instead of just a Hindus vs Atheists debate?

I have said many times "I don't believe in the Gods of Abraham (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) or the Gods of Vedas and Puranas (Hinduism, Buddhism & Jainism)"

Granted, I belong to a small minority...

I know that majority of people in this world believe in some form of "Man-made Religions" perhaps because of Tradition and/or Fear and/or Superstition.

That's their Civil Right, I suppose.

Peace.

 

[amala]

I've always been a tad envious of those who were so sure that their Truth is The Truth. I wish I could be that sure of God, or no God.

I say my prayers, go to the temple occasionally and have an Ishta-Devata. But I do not know the answer to the Big Question. As much as I'd love to say I am a theist (i know I'm not an atheist for sure) I'm not sure I can. I would probably say I am an Agno-theist. But it sure is nice to be so sure He exists/he doesn't.

 

[tbs]

hi amala,
its purely a belief system....like my mother told me that Mr X is my father...but i dont know in reality...i just trust my mom...

Mr X may be may not be... i cant do DNA test to prove that...i just beleive....its my belief....sometimes it happens in real life

experiences.....
சிலருக்கு சிலை வெறும் கல்லு .....சிலருக்கு அந்த கல்லு தான் சிலை....சிலருக்கு அந்த சிலைதான் கடவுள்....சிலருக்கு அந்த கடவுள் தான் சிலை...
கடவுள் ஏன் கல்லானான் ....அந்த கல்லாய் போன மனிதர்கள் ஆளே .......கண்ணதாசன் வரிகள்....



regards
tbs

 

[biswa]

I've always been a tad envious of those who were so sure that their Truth is The Truth. I wish I could be that sure of God, or no God.

I say my prayers, go to the temple occasionally and have an Ishta-Devata. But I do not know the answer to the Big Question. As much as I'd love to say I am a theist (i know I'm not an atheist for sure) I'm not sure I can. I would probably say I am an Agno-theist. But it sure is nice to be so sure He exists/he doesn't.

Nobody will know the answer to the Big Question. Ever. Or at least be able to prove it to anybody else. Neither theists or atheists. That is the whole point of Hawking.

 

[DrBarani]

Nobody will know the answer to the Big Question. Ever. Or at least be able to prove it to anybody else. Neither theists or atheists. That is the whole point of Hawking.

I think people must build a temple for Lord Mr.Hawking; it appears more of them believe in him than their own mothers!

 

[biswa]

I think people must build a temple for Lord Mr.Hawking; it appears more of them believe in him than their own mothers!

Sure, I think he knows more Quantum Mechanics than my mom! I understand your point that Hawking may not be original in his ideas. I would also like to learn more about other similar/prior thinkers. Any pointers?

 

[DrBarani]

Sure, I think he knows more Quantum Mechanics than my mom! I understand your point that Hawking may not be original in his ideas. I would also like to learn more about other similar/prior thinkers. Any pointers?

Hawking did not work in Quantum Mechanics. He is a Cosmologist. And neither Quantum Mechanics nor Cosmology cares about defining God or trying to find him! And Hawking's ideas were wrong... that is what HE said himself!

I don't think Hawking stole any formula or ideas from others. Einstein was a bit questionable in that regard. After all Einstein worked in Swiss patent office and had the right to accept or reject papers sent from India! His Special Relativity is known as Lorentz Transformations. His General Relativity is known as Minkowski relationships. Thus, those are not even his own formula, but he applied them and got credit.

Of course Read up on Rosalind Franklin and photo 51... and who stole it to model DNA double helix. Some of the so-called great discoverers have been mega thieves.

You want to know great scientific minds? Many are right here in India. Also some Canadians, Russians, Swiss and Austrian mathematicians. Coxeter was a great Geometrician (British by birth, but moved to Canada) who worked on multidimensional Euclidean space.

Ramanujam was an incredible mind, he knew and invented every obscure relationships between numbers to infinity.

Mathematicians of 17-20th Century have been gifted. Recent decades there are no such noteworthy mentions.

I'd say Linus Pauling was a great structural chemist. He could imagine 3D structures of compounds and molecules.

In the past 40+ years reported "successes" in physics has been driven money power. If you can construct a billion dollar particle collider you manage to win a Nobel Prize for an estoric particle. Or if you are an Engineer who constructs electron microscopy instrument. Those aren't intellectual successes.

Almost all of the QM developers managed to think outside the conventional box and realize that measurements limit our knowledge (definitions and descriptors inclusive).

I am sure there have been wonderful scientific minds in India, comparable to Newton and others, even long long before. Aryabhatta, Bhaskara and numerous other Astronomers. Science did exist in India. Unfortunately, India doesn't welcome or encourage its own Scientists. Most Indians are guilty of worshipping anything foreign. Until India gets out of that mindset, we are destined to play second fiddle.

 

[tks]

Sri Saraswati also says there is God. What I find it hypocritical is, cherrypicking his words to suit ones own bias.

If a quote is central to making a point then the reference be readily available. Often interpretations lack the context and this way one can go to the source if it quoted. Loose statements with loose references, cherrypicking to use your words undermines the credibility of all the points made in my view

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Dr.Barani,

Their doubt is ' how can an Indian be more intelligent and wise than the
westerners ? '. I do not know how many of them have studied our vedas
and scriptures in depth before commenting upon it.

This reminds me of George Bernard Shaw and the Marxists of UK. The Marxists
took Shaw lightly and was harsh on him. Shaw took some time, read Marx's
works thoroughly and came back to the discussion table and to his dismay found
that others are shallow and have not at all read Marx's works.

 

[C RAVI]

I've always been a tad envious of those who were so sure that their Truth is The Truth. I wish I could be that sure of God, or no God.

I say my prayers, go to the temple occasionally and have an Ishta-Devata. But I do not know the answer to the Big Question. As much as I'd love to say I am a theist (i know I'm not an atheist for sure) I'm not sure I can. I would probably say I am an Agno-theist. But it sure is nice to be so sure He exists/he doesn't.

Dear Amala,

My friendly, unsolicited suggestion would be - Don't have Ishta-Devata, chant mantras, ask for mantras, go to temple, and do your pooja, being sceptical to the answers of the Theists to the Big Question.

Prayers and poojas are worth doing and experiencing with strong understanding and belief.

With a doubt in our Soul, with intelligent rational thinking in your Brain, taking a middle stand on Big Question in the public etc.etc., going to temples and doing all pooja and chanting mantras would be just like cheating yourself or showing off.

Hypocrysy can be administered in our pubilc and personal life to cushion ourself reasonably and with no harm to others. But any sort of hypocrysy with respect to worship of God is like deceiving your own existence, IMO.

Sh.Nara's clicking of "like" to your post may be helpful to you and to all of us to know what sh.Nara follows.

But, if my guess is right, I believe all Theist like me, chant mantras, pray for wellbeing, go to temples and do pooja with bakthi and shraddha only with a strong belief that God exists..And we don't hesitate to express openly in the public that God exist.

We believe in the existence of God, do all our pooja at home and in temple with strong belief and never ever give a different picture to others.


If you could take this post of mine in good spirit, try to realize God within you and see whether you could get answers to the Big Question within yourself.

If you could reralize, don't feel shy ever to express it in public.

 

[amala]

Dear Ravi,

This is what I feel Ravi. I'm open to my beleif system. I'm sorry if it doesn't please certain theists. I can't lie for that and say I'm 100% theist. I do have an ishta devta from small.

I don't beleive I am hypocritical. I just don't know. I can pretend I'm so sure but that would be dishonest IMO. Of course if ever do have an unwavering convinction about God you can be sure I won't feel shy to post.

My post was a random thing about my beliefs/doubt. Please don't use it to take digs at Nara mama. You all already know what he follows anyway. I just feel uncomfortable for my post to facilitate remarks about him.

Thank you.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

hi amala,
its purely a belief system....like my mother told me that Mr X is my father...but i dont know in reality...i just trust my mom...

Mr X may be may not be... i cant do DNA test to prove that...i just beleive....its my belief....sometimes it happens in real life

experiences.....
சிலருக்கு சிலை வெறும் கல்லு .....சிலருக்கு அந்த கல்லு தான் சிலை....சிலருக்கு அந்த சிலைதான் கடவுள்....சிலருக்கு அந்த கடவுள் தான் சிலை...
கடவுள் ஏன் கல்லானான் ....அந்த கல்லாய் போன மனிதர்கள் ஆளே .......கண்ணதாசன் வரிகள்....



regards
tbs

Sivavakkiar is a siddha whose philosophy will be quite shocking and thought-
provoking. He shuns all rituals and asks us to look within . I will give herein
three of his gems reflecting these thoughts :-

நட்டகல்லைத் தெய்வமென்று நாலுபுட்பஞ்சாத்தியே
சுற்றிவந்து மொணமொணமென்று சொல்லும் மந்திரம் ஏதடா
நட்டகல்லும் பேசுமோ நாதனுள் இருக்கையில்
சுட்டசட்டி சட்டுவம் கறிச்சுவை அறியுமோ
God is within but you do not see him. You worship a stone and chant mantras.
Utensil used for cooking does not know the taste of the food made in it, and
like that you do not know the God within you.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

second:

ஓசையுள்ள கல்லைநீர் உடைத்திரண்டாய் செய்துமே
வாசலில்பதித்த கல்லை மழுங்கவே மிதிக்கிறீர்
பூசனைக்கு வைத்தகல்லில் பூவும் நீரும் சாத்துறீர்
ஈசனுக்கு உகந்தகல் எந்தகல்லு சொல்லுமே

எல்லாம் ஒரே கல்தான். ஆனால் கடவுள் என்று மதிக்கும் செயலால்தான்
ஒரு கல் உயர்கிறது , மற்றது தாழ்கிறது.

Third :

இல்லைஇல்லை இல்லையென்று யியம்புகின்ற ஏழைகாள்
இல்லையென்று நின்றதுஒன்றை இல்லையென்ன லாகுமோ
இல்லையல்ல ஒன்றும்ல்ல இரண்டும் ஒன்றிநின்றதை
எல்லைகண்டு கொண்டபேர் இனிப்பிறப்பது இல்லையே

To say that you have seen THAT which cant be seen or you have not seen
THAT which cant be seen is not correct. THAT is one with you and THAT
does not stand alone. Those who have realised THAT do not have rebirth.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

This is what I feel Ravi. I'm open to my beleif system. I'm sorry if it doesn't please certain theists. I can't lie for that and say I'm 100% theist. I do have an ishta devta from small.

I don't beleive I am hypocritical. I just don't know. I can pretend I'm so sure but that would be dishonest IMO. Of course if ever do have an unwavering convinction about God you can be sure I won't feel shy to post.

My post was a random thing about my beliefs/doubt. Please don't use it to take digs at Nara mama. You all already know what he follows anyway. I just feel uncomfortable for my post to facilitate remarks about him.

Thank you.

Dear Amala,

You seem to have mistaken me...I think some advices and suggestions hurts you a lot..

You can very well have your own belief system. It got nothing to do with me and with any one else.

Since you expressed that, you got Ishta-Devatha, chant mantras, visits temple and do pooja etc..etc., I suggested you to do all with full honesty, belief, Bakthi and Shradha. I just suggested you to do and experience the divinity and its charm with full belief on God, otherwise of which what all you are doing would be just like many of other kinds fashion oriented, name sake doing/performing/celebrating etc..

No Amala, you don't need to pretend at all and you are not pretending. Your clear statement reveals exactly what you feel and what you do.

I just made a unsolicited, friendly suggestion. I understand and appreciate your honesty and sense of purity. May be that's why I was interested to give you suggestion.

 

[amala]

Dear Ravi,

I am not hurt by your suggestion at all. I am merely declining it as it doesnt suit me at this point in time. To my credit, I do try however to fully beleive.

 

[Nara]

....Sh.Nara's clicking of "like" to your post may be helpful to you and to all of us to know what sh.Nara follows.

What do you think that would be dear Ravi, i.e. what I follow? At least I didn't take it upon myself to advice Amala that she should try to be a confirmed atheist.

Ravi, FYI, what I liked in Amala's post was her honesty, her willingness to be upfront about it. If you have a problem with that please direct your comment to me and we can talk about it.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

1) What do you think that would be dear Ravi, i.e. what I follow? At least I didn't take it upon myself to advice Amala that she should try to be a confirmed atheist.

2) Ravi, FYI, what I liked in Amala's post was her honesty, her willingness to be upfront about it. If you have a problem with that please direct your comment to me and we can talk about it.

Cheers!

Ayya,

I have listed out your statement as 1 and 2..., to answer you accordingly..

1) I made my unsolicited suggestion only because, Amala was found openly here as what she does and that I found as exactly as how we Theist do.

Since she said that, she is not sure of the existence of God, she is envious of the strong belef of "Athests" and "Theists", that she is still searching answer for the Big Question (Does God exists?) and that with this non clarity, still she loves to call herself theist; but she continues to do all that we Theist do with full belief on God, I ended up extending my friendly and unsolicited suggestion.

2) I have no problem with your clicking "Like" to that post of hers.

It's not fair that you would expect others to direct their comments staright to you, but you would not do the same as and when you feel like and decide whom you exclusively want to pick up in your non directional posts.

The below is the extract of your post some time before in the very same thread that demonstrates your self centred biased attitude..

I am not at all interested to get into stiff sensation with you. You just have dragged me to make an attempt, to clarify you.

C. Ravi's "Like" not withstanding, which is ubiquitous anyway, this is one of the silliest logic I have ever heard to assert belief in god. Hope you guys can do better than this in the future.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

it took two people to produce me.wonder how many gods were involved in the creation of cosmos,universe its inhabitants for eons now?inferential logic is good thing,imo.

 

[Nara]

Ayya....

Ravi, your "Ayya" not withstanding (BTW, the phrase "not withstanding" like the one in the text you have cited, is not a criticism, please look it up) you have made disparaging personal comments about me even within the last couple of days, earlier you said "as usual" I did not respond and now you said my Like revealed something to you. Why must you make such comments about me the person Ravi?

I am not at all interested to get into stiff sensation with you. You just have dragged me to make an attempt, to clarify you.

Ravi, I dragged you, really? Alright Ravi, have it your way.

Ravi, please note that I have always tried my best to show respect, or at least not make any assumptions about you or your motives.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Ravi,

This is what I feel Ravi. I'm open to my beleif system. I'm sorry if it doesn't please certain theists. I can't lie for that and say I'm 100% theist. I do have an ishta devta from small.

I don't beleive I am hypocritical. I just don't know. I can pretend I'm so sure but that would be dishonest IMO. Of course if ever do have an unwavering convinction about God you can be sure I won't feel shy to post.

My post was a random thing about my beliefs/doubt. Please don't use it to take digs at Nara mama. You all already know what he follows anyway. I just feel uncomfortable for my post to facilitate remarks about him.

Thank you.

What Ms. Amala says is REAL and GENUINE, IMO.

My wife (a TB from Trichy) has expressed very similar opinion on her faith and religiosity. She goes to temple occasionally, whenever she feels like it.

She has said, "I am like an Agno-Theist...!"

I would imagine that there are hundreds of millions of men and women in this "Middle State of Mind.."

I don't know why that bothers the Theists, anyway? They become very preachy!! Lol.

 

[renuka]

I will give my comment on Ravi's post.Even though I didnt agree 100% to what he wrote esp about the Istha Dev and comment on Naras's like for amala's post but I feel may be he just had good will in his heart when he wrote that.As a sincere guide for another person.

This is just my humble opinion and nothing more.I dont intend to add fuel to fire.

Ravi and amala I hope you both dont mind my comment here.

 

[C RAVI]

What Ms. Amala says is REAL and GENUINE, IMO.

My wife (a TB from Trichy) has expressed very similar opinion on her faith and religiosity. She goes to temple occasionally, whenever she feels like it.

She has said, "I am like an Agno-Theist...!"

I would imagine that there are hundreds of millions of men and women in this "Middle State of Mind.."

I don't know why that bothers the Theists, anyway? They become very preachy!! Lol.

There is nothing preaching here Sir. Amala is not a kid. She is very smart, briliant, honest and a girl of pure heart.

I was excited by all of her chanting, praying, going to temple etc.. ..Just suggested her to do with full belief to have true peace of mind and satisfaction, doing all these things...Thats all.

 

[renuka]

Just my thought: "Middle path" does not spell Semi-Denial.Middle path means NOT being in the extreme ends of the spectrum.

 

[subbudu1]

I am going to talk about a good man. A man from a brahmin family yet an atheist. Many of the things that he did was revolutionary and bold, yet lot of people may feel upset about this. But it is the story of a good man and a Gandhian by the way. It is not that people need to agree with atheism but atheism also produces good people. The reason I have to say is this my stand in life is anything but atheistic , yet the moment I look like a sceptic people are upset with me. Probably the hardcore atheists have faced real problems in life and that was not because they were not good people.
I hope with this post people start showing respect to each other regardless of their beliefs.
Source( http://www.buddhiwadi.org/Gora.htm )

As Gora himself says in this book, he was orthodox and superstitious in his childhood. Even at the age of 22, when he appeared for his M.A. (Botany) examination from the Presidency College (Madras), he kept in his pocket a small packet of "sacred ash" given to him by his parental aunt. At that time, he believed that the presence of the ash enabled him to pass examinations!

Gora's movement towards atheism was gradual. It was only after doing his M.A. that he lost his faith in the "sacred ash" and decided to stand on his feet. In spite of the "sacred ash" Gora had stood last in the rank out of the five students who passed M.A. (Botany) examination that year.

When Gora joined the American Mission College, Madurai, as a lecturer in natural science, he deliberately chose a "haunted" house as his home. However, he continued to be a vegetarian, which was the habit of the caste in which he was born. He also continued to wear the "sacred thread" (janeu), which the upper caste (dwija) Hindu males wear. Thus, when the then principal of the American Mission College, Rev. Wallace, suggested to Gora that he could go to Yale University for his Ph.D. and become the Rector of the Science Department provided he embraced Christianity, Gora refused. As Gora himself says, his reaction to the suggestion was that of a Hindu. He was more a Hindu than an atheist at that time.

However, his refusal to accept Christianity made Gora think deeply on religious issues. He started wondering how Hinduism and Christianity were different from one another. He read English or Telugu translations of the Bible, Bhagavadgita, Koran, Vedas, Upanishads and other religious scriptures for making a comparative study of different religions. For five or six years, he made an extensive general study of topics like God, soul, salvation, rebirth, spirituality, other worlds, etc. He was particularly interested in abnormal and religious psychology as he found in them the clue to understanding human belief in the existence of God and soul. Because of his study and reflection, Gora concluded: …it was man that made god out of psychological necessity in primitive times. Metaphysical justification of the existence of god was a clever after thought of civilized man to preserve the faith, at best for its use as a sanction for moral conduct and at worst for aiding exploitation of the gullible masses.
However, his refusal to accept Christianity made Gora think deeply on religious issues. He started wondering how Hinduism and Christianity were different from one another. He read English or Telugu translations of the Bible, Bhagavadgita, Koran, Vedas, Upanishads and other religious scriptures for making a comparative study of different religions. For five or six years, he made an extensive general study of topics like God, soul, salvation, rebirth, spirituality, other worlds, etc. He was particularly interested in abnormal and religious psychology as he found in them the clue to understanding human belief in the existence of God and soul. Because of his study and reflection, Gora concluded: …it was man that made god out of psychological necessity in primitive times. Metaphysical justification of the existence of god was a clever after thought of civilized man to preserve the faith, at best for its use as a sanction for moral conduct and at worst for aiding exploitation of the gullible masses.

Besides, Gora had been a student of P.R. College. Thus, Gora was happy that he was going to serve his old college as well as live with his parents in their old age. But his changed atheistic attitudes resulted in clashes with the conservative and conventional ways of his parents and of his alma mater. In August 1928, Gora's father expelled him from his house because Gora refused to wear the "sacred thread", which he now regarded as a symbol of caste. Gora was declared an outcaste and he moved out of his father's house. However, two and half years after the excommunication Gora's father invited him and his wife for a dinner. This time, some orthodox relatives excommunicated Gora's parents for eating with him! A few months later Gora's parents shifted to Gora's house to live with him for sometime. Thus, Gora's alienation with his parents did not last long.

Gora was of the view that to be a "real way of life” atheism should concern itself with all aspects of life, particularly with the economic and political aspect. Because social relations in modern age are controlled and regulated much more by political authority than by religious faith. Accordingly, Gora and his colleagues from Atheist Center participated in the Quit India Movement of 1942 as satyagrahis.

The central point in Gora’s philosophy is atheism. This is obvious from the fact that he gave the title “We Become Atheists” to his autobiographical account. As Gora says in this book:
… in fact, many people with atheistic leanings use the terms rationalism, humanism, or free thought instead. Our specialty consisted in using the term atheism openly and giving it a positive content…
Gora was fully aware that conventionally “atheism” was equated with “wickedness”. Even Gandhi had advised him to take another name in view of the prejudice against the term “atheism”. However, Gora deliberately used the word “atheism” because, according to him, it “promises to bring about permanent change for human welfare."
An Atheist With Gandhi, which was first published in 1951, provides a glimpse of Gora’s atheistic ideas. However, Positive Atheism, first published in 1972, gives the most elaborate exposition of Gora’s atheism.
Gora's Telugu book Nastikatvamu was published in 1941. This book was based on a manuscript on “Atheism” in English, which Gora had prepared in 1938. According to Gora, whereas the unpublished manuscript of 1938 “took the traditional negative view of atheism and was a polemic in disproving the basis of faith in existence of God, Positive Atheism lays down the precise atheistic attitude towards several aspects of life”.
Further, according to Gora:
Because positive atheism asserts freedom of the individual, a detailed code of conduct is incompatible with the freedom. Theistic scriptures like The Bhagavadgita, The Bible and The Quran prescribed dos and don’ts of life from morn to eve and from birth to death, since they did not recognize the freedom of the individual. Atheism is the opposite. Therefore, Positive Atheism indicates only the guidelines for the individual to plan his or her own life with full initiative and moral responsibility.

According to Gora, materialism, which rejects the concepts of God, soul, other worlds and after-life, because they are not perceptible to physical senses, is more realistic than spiritualism. But, materialism, too, is “theistic”, since “it requires man’s surrender to natural laws or to historical forces”. Gora characterizes “materialism” as “godless theism”.

Since actual living needs assertion, all practice of life is, according to Gora, always atheistic. Theists think that they are not free and their lives are pre-determined by God or determined by circumstances. Nevertheless, in practice they necessarily act with a sense of freedom. To that extent, all theists are atheistic in practice. This inconsistency between theory and practice, maintains Gora, makes theists “inevitably dishonest”. The more active they are, the more dishonest they appear. Since comforts in life increase with planning, initiative and active satisfaction of wants, dishonest theists live comfortably; but the mass of theists, who honestly believe in surrender, cripple their initiative and fall into poverty. Thus, wide inequalities exist in the theistic environment, the dishonest sailing at the top and the honest sinking to the bottom in destitution.

In Gora’s view, “mixed marriages mark the transition from conventional marriages to promiscuity”. Inter-marriages between persons belonging to different castes, religious denominations, racial groups and nationalities “paved the way towards the development of one humanity.” Gora agrees that marriage relationship affords emotional alliance along with sex satisfaction, but, he points out, “it attaches stigma to unwed motherhood and imposes a special handicap upon the women”. Just as the Blacks are discriminated by virtue of the color of the skin., the women, says Gora, is discriminated by virtue of her motherhood:

About his wife
Indian Skeptic Vol 3 No 10/2

A woman inbued with extraordinary courage and sagacity, she is the proud recipient of outstanding social worker award from Challagulla Charities, Hyderabad, this year.

Born in a middle class orthodox family on 28th September 1912 as an eighth child to her parents, Podur Lakshmi Narasimham and Kondamma, Saraswathi was brought up with enormous love and affection. Being the youngest child in the family she was affectionately called "Chitti". Her grandfather (mother's uncle), Cherukupalli Lakshmi Narasimha Rao used to distribute alms to the poor through Chitti's hands.

Saraswathi was brought up among very orthodox practices. The family observed extreme cleanliness and purity. They did not allow any servant to cook food for them. The family used to cook and eat only with pure silk or wet clothes on which they called "madi". The family used to worship different deities. Saraswathi's mother used to be busy throughout the day with prayers and poojas. Several festivals were celebrated throughout the year with great enthusiasm, in particular, Dasara festival for nine days. Orthodox Saraswathi was familiar with the practice of untouchability, she was not allowed to enter the house or mix with the rest of the family after touching others at school or outside her house till she took bath and changed her clothes.

. In April 1922 Saraswathi's father accidentally met one of his childhood friends, Goparaju Venkatasubha Rao at Kakinada during his trip to the place in search of bridegroom for Saraswathi.

Venkata Subha Rao was very religious and was well known as "Mahadeva Sambho" as he was a great disciple of Lord Siva and always wore rudraksha beads around his neck and chanted the name Mahadeva Sambho. Though he was a worshipper of Shiva, he did not differentiate between Shiva and Keshava and showed lot of tolerance towards worshippers of Vishnu. In later days he extended his tolerance to other religions also and composed songs to spread the message that Shiva, Allah, Christ and Yehovah are but different names of the same omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient force behind this universe.

It was at this time that Saraswathi came to know that her father in law was suspended from his job as he volunteered to give two bags of paddy to the Congress volunteers. This was the first time, as a young girl, Saraswathi was exposed to the national freedom and social unity. But she was too young to take it to heart and to form definite ideas of her own on such matters.

Gora did not believe in any orthodox practice like cooking and eating with "madi" or observing other formalities as he believed that it was enough if one was clean. He asked Saraswathi to give up meaningless practices. But it was difficult for Saraswathi to shun them, as she had grown with them from her childhood. For a few days she could not eat properly and at the same time she could not oppose Gora and argue with him. Moreover she believed that it was her duty to obey her husband because she was taught so. While obeying Gora, Saraswathi got used to his ways in course of time.

On their way back to Kakinada both of them visited Ooty, Mysore, Bangalore, Tirupathi and Madras. Tirupathi is a famous holy place for the Hindus especially for the Hindus in Andhra. It is quite interesting to note that Gora and Saraswathi did not worship at the temple, instead they enjoyed the beautiful scenery from the hill top and returned. For, by that time, both of them had lost faith in god.

In 1928 Gora had to face excommunication for refusing to wear the sacred thread and with his wife and child he was sent out of the house. During this period it was Saraswathi's boldness to face social ostracism and the challenges of life along with Gora and her preparedness to suffer indignities with a smile that gave all the required strength to Gora. Her fight against superstition started taking definite shape.

It was at Mudunur that Saraswathi started coming forward vigorously. She had already changed her outlook towards life and her approach. But she was still traditional in her looks with a tilak on her forehead, mangalasutra in her neck and bangles on her hands. Now she got rid of all these symbols of tradition from her body which she considered as a mark of servitude of women to men and customs. She became wholly committed to atheism heading a movement among women as an atheist revolutionary. She took to aggressive propaganda of atheism among women especially in dispelling superstition. In 1940 there was a solar eclipse. In the light of her experience at Colombo, Saraswathi colected eighteen pregnant women and made them defy the taboos.

She unhesitatingly invited students of Gora belonging to untouchable castes and fed them. She was also instrumental in taking a decision to marry her daughter Manorama to a Harijan boy, Arjun Rao, envisaging a practical, social revolution when a marriage between a brahmin girl and a harijan boy was unthinkable in society. She supported intercaste marriages and encouraged many to put it in to practice in order to build up a casteless society based on social equality. Her son Lavanam's marriage was also an intercaste marriage. Her commitment to social harmony made her enthusiastically participate in the beef and pork functions organised by Gora and also by other rationalist associations.

Saraswathi provides constant guidance to the criminal rehabiliation work taken up by "Samskar" another organisation in the Atheist Centre at Vijayawada for reforming and rehabilitating criminals. Recently this organisation has taken up new projects of rehabilitating Jogins and bringing them into the general social stream. Several Jogin marriages have been conducted with the help of this organisation.

Saraswathi Gora is an incorrigible optimist. Age did not dampen her determination and enthusiam, rather, it seems to have grown with years. Uncompromising in her principles, determined in her approach, steady in her methods, ever growing in her enthusiasm she is the pillar of strength to the Atheist Centre and she is the leading spirit behind the Atheist movement. It may look a paradox of sorts that this orthodox brahmin woman from Vijayanagram in Andhra Pradesh, with meagre formal education should preside over a centre of multifarious social activities with a philosophy of atheism.

 

[C RAVI]

Just my thought: "Middle path" does not spell Semi-Denial.Middle path means NOT being in the extreme ends of the spectrum.

Yes, after all, it all depends how we take it. For God all are same. Doesn't matter what we think of God. True bakthi and Shradha will follow on its own gradually on one fine day, may be even just few days before the final departure of the soul.