God Exists

[happyhindu]

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[happyhindu]

I am not interested in continuing a debate with you. I can give a hundred links and references to you about what actually happened in Kilvenmony. But I am not interested in discussing this with you for reasons I have already given. If you post any more on this I will ignore completely.

Instead of propagating blatant lies, you might as well provide those hundred links and references. Alternatively, yes, you can ignore this.

 

[C RAVI]

:focus:

 

[ShivKC]

Raju,Ref to your post 992 to Shri Subbudu.Untouchability is not about personal hygiene. Anyone who reads just the manusmrithi will know the difference. Brahminists have tried enuf obfuscation with talk of personal hygiene. Sometimes i wonder if various claims made by you are true or not. Anyways, unfortunately (for brahmanists), people cannot be fooled any more. Untouchability is about designating people by birth into untouchables, because the shastras endorsed to doom those people to be tied like chattel into rigid birth-based occupations. No one chooses to clean filth on their own. Slaves did it in the past. Those who do it today are people who have no other means of earning a living. But they do not want their children to clean filth. So they educate them and send them to decent jobs.

back to square one. im addressing this to all participants.are we discussing here about 'proof for existence of god'?? it sucks and pains, when each every discussion/topic is dragged in to spew venom on brahminism. i thought this thread would be spared, at least, but i was wrong againtill 900 posts it was going nice, and now off late, it has shifted back to square one. today, i find this place is also getting infested.my request to all. i mean ALL, All , ALL.... lets discuss only about the subject in OP. dont drag brahmin bashing here. if any one habitually wants to do so, may open a new thread, and do bashing the bashing or defending.. its applies to both.

 

[C RAVI]

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD? Let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form. The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others. "You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.


If "KIDS" ask - "Why some others are not good? Why they are not mercyfull and are not repenting for their errors? Why there is "NO GOD" in them?"

For this, tell them - They failed to be in their purest form, so they could not find GOD winthin themselves, and so, they are not good. They neither could find "GOD" within themselves nor could find GOD in others.

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time.

 

[happyhindu]

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD. let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form. The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others. "You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.


If "KIDS" ask - "Why some others are not good? Why they are not mercyfull and are not repenting for their errors? Why there is "NO GOD" in them?"

For this, tell them - They failed to be in their purest form, so they could not find GOD winthin themselves, and so, they are not good. They neither could find "GOD" within themselves nor could find GOD in others.

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time.

Ravi,

I wish kids were so simple, to accept such simplistic answers. We are like silly old foggies in front of their maturity, sensibility and ability to look for answers on their own. The less we try to confuse them with our own understanding, the more easier it is for them to discover things on their own.

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi,

I wish kids were so simple, to accept such simplistic answers. We are like silly old foggies in front of their maturity, sensibility and ability to look for answers on their own. The less we try to confuse them with our own understanding, the more easier it is for them to discover things on their own.

Dear Happyhindu,

What I have stated above in my previous posts (as answeres to the "KIDS"), are all considering the most pertinent and clear understanding of we adults, about "GOD". That we need to follow as Theist adults (realizing GOD) and convey the same message to our "KIDS".

Offcourse, those answeres are not for "Atheist Parents" to adopt and pass on to their "KIDS".

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Happyhindu,

What I have stated above in my previous posts (as answeres to the "KIDS"), are all considering the most pertinent and clear understanding of we adults, about "GOD". That we need to follow as Theist adults (realizing GOD) and convey the same message to our "KIDS".

Offcourse, those answeres are not for "Atheist Parents" to adopt and pass on to their "KIDS".

Ravi,

There is no difference between an atheist and a theist. One is convinced that God exists. Another is convinced that God does not exist. Both try to convince each other of their respective stands and can get foolish.

I think its better to leave kids alone. They can very well discover things on their own. Which is why the answer i give is "I don't know".

If as a "theist adult" you can convince me how to "realise God", then i wud consider it useful for myself.

 

[subbudu1]

Hi All,

I think the sum and substance of Sri Subbudu’s message no. 948 is:

(a) when one person sees or feels or understands a strange phenomenon which rationalists or scientists cant explain - it is delusional

(b) when a group of person feels or sees or understands the same strange phenomenon – they are affected by illusion

What he has not said and but which logically follows is: © when everyone feels or sees or understands a strange phenomenon (for which scientists have still no answer) it is natural.

Now let us bring the God into equation and let the whole population consist of only rationalists or scientists. And for argument sake, let us presume that He stops the time by prolonging daytime and preventing timely sun set.

(i) When one scientist alone experiences this phenomenon the rest would call that particular scientist – a delusionist;

(ii) When a group stands outside the phenomenon they would call that group experiencing the phenomenon as – illusionists

(iii) When all the people experience the phenomenon they would still call themselves as scientists or rationalists.

They would never realize the God’s action, explaining the phenomenon by giving out their theories of delusion, illusion etc. and would form mutual admiration society, unless the God makes the mistake of letting the silly man-made clock keep ticking away. So it would require a mistake by God to let these rationalists realize their folly.

Regards,

narayan

I dont know how many people are deluded or irrational. But I would say this if something is irrational it cannot stand the test of time. Its flaws are bound to be seen some day or the other. It is better to rely on the judgement of the sane even though he may be one, rather than rely on a hundred thousand insane

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Ravi,

These are questions from my kid.

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD? Let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form.

How ? If i die does God die?

The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others.

I am good. Show me God.

"You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD.

How?

Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.

(asks me, ma, what is accept? What is realise ? )

[note from me - Ravi, it is not nice to tell a kid that he / she is not already accepted in terms of love, if that's what you mean. But anyways, please explain what is accept? And how to realise god? Also Ravi, have you realised God as an adult? My kid's response is "are you fooling me. Even granny has not seen god".]

If "KIDS" ask - "Why some others are not good? Why they are not mercyfull and are not repenting for their errors? Why there is "NO GOD" in them?"

For this, tell them - They failed to be in their purest form, so they could not find GOD winthin themselves, and so, they are not good. They neither could find "GOD" within themselves nor could find GOD in others.

My friends are good. Except 2 of them. Did you see God?

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time.

But i am already good. (says, why are you telling me this again).

(now asks me, ma how will god teach me lesson? By punishing me?

(note from me - ravi, this is like telling a kid that suffering is a form of punishment. If that is what you want to teach a kid, please explain this convincingly. I have refrained from speaking anything on suffering to the kid so far).

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi,

There is no difference between an atheist and a theist. One is convinced that God exists. Another is convinced that God does not exist. Both try to convince each other of their respective stands and can get foolish.

I think its better to leave kids alone. They can very well discover things on their own. Which is why the answer i give is "I don't know".

If as a "theist adult" you can convince me how to "realise God", then i wud consider it useful for myself.

Dear Happyhindu,

You seem be too late to get into this thread. And you may have not gone through all the posts that existed here before your entry.

I have stated in my previous posts that, no one is different. We differ by our own ideas and belief about GOD.

Regarding your concluding statement - "If as a "theist adult" you can convince me how to "realise God", then i wud
consider it useful for myself."

Though kids are very smart now a days, the answers that I conveyed, to be passed on to kids are no nonsense or harmful for the kids to accept and follow.

That's why I told, Theists parents can accept and adopt those answeres to make thier kids understand. And Athiests parents obviously would provide right enlightment to their kids.

If you and people like you, opt to choose the right answer as "I don't know" to the Kids, upon questioning about GOD, it's purely their choise.

I have clearly stated in my previous post on answering to kids abot GOD. That, god exists in you in your purest form, you got to be as good as possible, than you can find GOD within you, AND as you grow and become adult you will realize more about GOD within you and outside of you.

I think , I have to copy past the same content here, to re-iterate.

Please make a note that, these answeres are for "KIDS" from their Theist parents, and not to convince you or any other Atheist members in this forum.

---------------------------------------

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD? Let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form. The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others. "You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.


If "KIDS" ask - "Why some others are not good? Why they are not mercyfull and are not repenting for their errors? Why there is "NO GOD" in them?"

For this, tell them - They failed to be in their purest form, so they could not find GOD winthin themselves, and so, they are not good. They neither could find "GOD" within themselves nor could find GOD in others.

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time.

----------------------------------------


​

 

[sravna]

The theists in the forum did a very creditable job in forcing the atheists into a corner when they struggled for an answer on how the universe was created. There is not a convincing reply yet.

The theists have also answered the question why the universe was created saying it is an act of sport for God and at the same time making possible the realization that spiritual reality is the ultimate reality. Though there is not a total agreement among the theists on this, they agree to a substantial extent.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Happyhindu,

You seem be too late to get into this thread. And you may have not gone through all the posts that existed here before your entry.

I have stated in my previous posts that, no one is different. We differ by our own ideas and belief about GOD.

Regarding your concluding statement - "If as a "theist adult" you can convince me how to "realise God", then i wud
consider it useful for myself."

Though kids are very smart now a days, the answers that I conveyed, to be passed on to kids are no nonsense or harmful for the kids to accept and follow.

That's why I told, Theists parents can accept and adopt those answeres to make thier kids understand. And Athiests parents obviously would provide right enlightment to their kids.

If you and people like you, opt to choose the right answer as "I don't know" to the Kids, upon questioning about GOD, it's purely their choise.

I have clearly stated in my previous post on answering to kids abot GOD. That, god exists in you in your purest form, you got to be as good as possible, than you can find GOD withing you, AND as you grow and become adult you will realize more about GOD within you and outside of you.

I think , I have to copy past the same content here, to re-iterate.

Please make a note that, these answeres are for "KIDS" from their Thest parents, and not to convince you or any other Atheist members in this forum.

---------------------------------------

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD? Let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form. The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others. "You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.


If "KIDS" ask - "Why some others are not good? Why they are not mercyfull and are not repenting for their errors? Why there is "NO GOD" in them?"

For this, tell them - They failed to be in their purest form, so they could not find GOD winthin themselves, and so, they are not good. They neither could find "GOD" within themselves nor could find GOD in others.

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time.

----------------------------------------


​

Ravi,

I have been thru all posts on this thread. As mentioned earlier, it does have to be either about Theism or Atheism all the time. The world is not just black and white. There are many shades of grey. Explaining facts and reality is easier. How do you explain "realising" God to anyone, not just kids ? Anyways, i have asked a few questions from the kid's pov to you in a separate post above.

 

[happyhindu]

The theists in the forum did a very creditable job in forcing the atheists into a corner when they struggled for an answer on how the universe was created. There is not a convincing reply yet.

The theists have also answered the question why the universe was created saying it is an act of sport for God and at the same time making possible the realization that spiritual reality is the ultimate reality. Though there is not a total agreement among the theists on this, they agree to a substantial extent.

Sravna,
Are you saying the answer given by theists is the absolute truth? Please can you let me know
1) what is the "sport of god"?
2) what is "spiritual reality"?
3) what is the "ultimate reality"?

 

[subbudu1]

Shri Ravi,

These are questions from my kid.


How ? If i die does God die?


I am good. Show me God.


How?


(asks me, ma, what is accept? What is realise ? )

[note from me - Ravi, it is not nice to tell a kid that he / she is not already accepted in terms of love, if that's what you mean. But anyways, please explain what is accept? And how to realise god? Also Ravi, have you realised God as an adult? My kid's response is "are you fooling me. Even granny has not seen god".]


My friends are good. Except 2 of them. Did you see God?


But i am already good. (says, why are you telling me this again).

(now asks me, ma how will god teach me lesson? By punishing me?

(note from me - ravi, this is like telling a kid that suffering is a form of punishment. If that is what you want to teach a kid, please explain this convincingly. I have refrained from speaking anything on suffering to the kid so far).

Happy Hindu if you dont mind I want to have some fun. If you had read some of the earlier posts you may understand the fun. Let me pretend to be an neo-scientist-advaitin and try to answer your questions. I know that this logic will be tough for a child. But I wouldnt care because as an advaitin I would believe that it is possible that children become fully knowledgeable.

How ? If i die does God die?

How will you know ever that you die. You only think you die , your current state in this world has become switched off. Your state in another universe is now switched on. In a third universe you are neither switched on nor switched off, in that universe you will be able to feel alive, yet you dont know if you are alive.
So because of this , you cannot die , and since you cannot die, God cannot die. How? Because you are the fully realized God in the fourth universe.
When you die here , there is some other universe from which the fully realized God, your own one of the many identity moves to another universe.

I am good. Show me God.

You can see God when you are neither good nor bad. In the universe in which you have that state there you are already seeing that God.

You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. How?

The world does not follow binary logic that is why.

(asks me, ma, what is accept? What is realise ? )

When you are not able to think you have realized. Note I am referring to the state of going beyond mind.

When you always obey the instructions of others you have accepted. Note I am referring to Guru Bhakti.

My friends are good. Except 2 of them. Did you see God?

For seeing God you should see neither good nor bad. So all your friends should be neither good nor bad.

But i am already good. (says, why are you telling me this again).

(now asks me, ma how will god teach me lesson? By punishing me?

You are already good, but you should be neither good nor bad.

God will punish you for your karma, so that yor mind goes numb, then you can see him and learn everything.

Suffering is not a punishment it is a new opportunity. Your mind should go numb.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Happyhindu,

My replies...

Shri Ravi,

These are questions from my kid.


How ? If i die does God die?


I am good. Show me God.


How?


(asks me, ma, what is accept? What is realise ? )

[note from me - Ravi, it is not nice to tell a kid that he / she is not already accepted in terms of love, if that's what you mean. But anyways, please explain what is accept? And how to realise god? Also Ravi, have you realised God as an adult? My kid's response is "are you fooling me. Even granny has not seen god".]

My friends are good. Except 2 of them. Did you see God?


But i am already good. (says, why are you telling me this again).

(now asks me, ma how will god teach me lesson? By punishing me?

(note from me - ravi, this is like telling a kid that suffering is a form of punishment. If that is what you want to teach a kid, please explain this convincingly. I have refrained from speaking anything on suffering to the kid so far).

If "KIDS" ask us where is GOD? Let us tell them that "GOD" is within your purest form. The more and more you are being good, you can find the GOD in you and in others. "You" as the good and the others as same as you, are all the representation of GOD. Once you grow and become an Adult, you can realize and indentify well as how and where the GOD outside you can be realized and accepted.

If "KIDS" ask - "If I try my best to be good and still if at times I don't be, knowingly or unknowingly, will GOD punish me?"

For this, tell them - The more you try to be good and be good, the more you would continue to be good. And if at times you end up being not good, the GOD in you will teach you a leasson as how to be good. Like how your mummy and daddy are teaching you from time to time

**There is nothing referring to sufferings, to a kid. I don't think parents punsh the kids to suffer**

If Kid asks, "if I die, does God die", answer this -

When you die, you as a "GOD" yourself, will become more powerful as an ANGEL and would just do "Jeem Bhoom Baaaa" and there will be wonderful things happening arround.

If your kid asks you - "After becoming Adult and finding more better GOD in me, shall I opt to die so that I can do this (Jeem bhoom Baaaa), to find wonderful things happening around?"

Give this answer to your little kid -

When you grow as an Adult, you would know yourself. Untill than just be good and allways good to have GOD in you.


As a fully grown up adult, you and many could not accept the concept of "GOD". How can we expect little kids to accept? We got to give them such answeres only to make them understand some what and to grow into a good human.

I reiterate again that these are applicable only for the Theists parents. Atheists and othere in middle path can make their own choice in answering their kids..

 

[sravna]

Sravna,
Are you saying the answer given by theists is the absolute truth? Please can you let me know
1) what is the "sport of god"?
2) what is "spiritual reality"?
3) what is the "ultimate reality"?

Dear Happyhindu,

Let me say that we shouldn't divert from the topic by discussing what seems to be extraneous at this point. I am just pointing to the fact that theists have an explanation for both the how and the why questions of the creation of the universe though it may not be acceptable, at least prima facie, to the other side. But atheists have no answers to either of the questions. The onus is therefore on the atheists to show why the reasoning of the theists is not acceptable other than just branding it as unacceptable.

 

[happyhindu]

Thankyou Shri Subbudu. Nice answers. I will tell the kid and see the responses. Although the questions asked to Ravi seemed casual, they really are not. Its just the surface. I have spoken a lot more to the kid than what Ravi has written. It is easier to convince a child in a happy mood to say shlokas and all. In a happy mood they will believe everything you say also. They will enjoy all the purana stories even. But when they are pensive and shaken it is not so easy to convince them.

 

[sravna]

Happy Hindu if you dont mind I want to have some fun. If you had read some of the earlier posts you may understand the fun. Let me pretend to be an neo-scientist-advaitin and try to answer your questions. I know that this logic will be tough for a child. But I wouldnt care because as an advaitin I would believe that it is possible that children become fully knowledgeable.



How will you know ever that you die. You only think you die , your current state in this world has become switched off. Your state in another universe is now switched on. In a third universe you are neither switched on nor switched off, in that universe you will be able to feel alive, yet you dont know if you are alive.
So because of this , you cannot die , and since you cannot die, God cannot die. How? Because you are the fully realized God in the fourth universe.
When you die here , there is some other universe from which the fully realized God, your own one of the many identity moves to another universe.


You can see God when you are neither good nor bad. In the universe in which you have that state there you are already seeing that God.


The world does not follow binary logic that is why.

When you are not able to think you have realized. Note I am referring to the state of going beyond mind.

When you always obey the instructions of others you have accepted. Note I am referring to Guru Bhakti.


For seeing God you should see neither good nor bad. So all your friends should be neither good nor bad.



You are already good, but you should be neither good nor bad.

God will punish you for your karma, so that yor mind goes numb, then you can see him and learn everything.

Suffering is not a punishment it is a new opportunity. Your mind should go numb.

Dear Shri Subbudu,

If you have really constructive criticism to offer even your adversary would welcome it. Certainly you are not doing your cause any good by being inaptly frivolous.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Happyhindu,

Let me say that we shouldn't divert from the topic by discussing what seems to be extraneous at this point. I am just pointing to the fact that theists have an explanation for both the how and the why questions of the creation of the universe though it may not be acceptable, at least prima facie, to the other side. But atheists have no answers to either of the questions. The onus is therefore on the atheists to show why the reasoning of the theists is not acceptable other than just branding it as unacceptable.

Sravna,
Am not diverting the topic. This thread is about "God exists". Simply because theists or atheists have some answer does not make the answer automatically correct. When you say creation of universe is a sport for god, it cannot be a truth. It can only be called an "answer" (perhaps given for the sake of answering). Please see my post 998 Simply because we think the universe is intelligent, that does not automatically mean god exists.

On the same note as your last sentence, the onus is therefore on the theists to show why their answer should be acceptable other than just branding it as "acceptable" (by themselves).

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Subbudu,

If you have really constructive criticism to offer even your adversary would welcome it. Certainly you are not doing your cause any good by being inaptly frivolous.

Shri Sarvana,

Sadly, only such inaptly frivolous answers are found convincing, good and worthy, even in the context of explaining the Kids to be a better human, atleast till the kid can make his/her own choice about the existence of GOD as grown up adult.

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Shri Subbudu,

If you have really constructive criticism to offer even your adversary would welcome it. Certainly you are not doing your cause any good by being inaptly frivolous.

It is no less constructive than an imaginary debate between Dr and N both whom are just randomly picked alphabets. I have the right to amuse myself and anyone else who chooses to smile along with me. And by the way Sravna my post was addressed to HH who seemed to have found the post acceptable/passable and it put on many smiles as this serious face of mine broke out into childlike laughter . I feel younger by some years, I need that.

 

[sravna]

Sravna,
Am not diverting the topic. This thread is about "God exists". Simply because theists or atheists have some answer does not make the answer automatically correct. When you say creation of universe is a sport for god, it cannot be a truth. It can only be called an "answer" (perhaps given for the sake of answering). Please see my post 998 Simply because we think the universe is intelligent, that does not automatically mean god exists.

On the same note as your last sentence, the onus is therefore on the theists to show why their answer should be acceptable other than just branding it as "acceptable" (by themselves).

Dear happyhindu,

I make an assertion and support it with a reasoning. Therefore it is up to someone who disagrees with me to show by his own reasoning why what I said is flawed. I will reply to your post 998 once i go though it.

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Sarvana,

Sadly, only such inaptly frivolous answers are found convincing, good and worthy, even in the context of explaining the Kids to be a better human, atleast till the kid can make his/her own choice about the existence of GOD as grown up adult.

Unfortunately Ravi, in this case the kid is convinced god does not exist (because to her if god exists then those that are not here will continue to be here and not "go away"). I am thinking she is speaking out of some hidden but not openly expressed anguish. But i may be wrong. Perhaps inside she is really convinced god does not exist. What i am doing is to convince her that god exists, have been trying to make her pray also, but am not meeting with success. Simply telling her she can make a choice AFTER becoming an adult fails to convince. Because her immediate answer is 'have adults seen god'. Hope you understand Ravi. Its not about how good the answers are. Its about whether they are convincing or not. Thankyou.

 

[sravna]

It is no less constructive than an imaginary debate between Dr and N both whom are just randomly picked alphabets. I have the right to amuse myself and anyone else who chooses to smile along with me.

Dear Shri.Subbudu,

If you feel compelled to amuse yourself and others, public forum is definitely a wrong choice and ceratinly not at others expense, at least that is what civilty says.