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God Exists

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Over the last few weeks, a lot of emails and messages were sent to me by established members and "readers" (readers are those who either do not participate much or do not log in) about posts that had caused them discomfort and anguish. While investigating those, it was found over 90% of those posts were either by HH or because of some posts made by HH.

In light of that i had got in touch with her and lets say "warned" (warn is not the appropriate word, but at this point i cannot think of any other phrase/word) her.

After this she did not post. And the complaints stopped.

Her recent activity has once again brought forth a barrage of emails and private messages. Since i had already "warned" her the next step is to issue a temporary ban and that is why you are seeing a "banned" text under her name.

But I think it is a bad idea to ban a member who has contributed much to this forum.
Agreed she is one of the top contributors but if there is a lot of complaints and issues arising out of what she has been posting, there is not much that can be done. A rule is a rule - irrespective of who it is.
 
Children are just children in their childish platter. But their questions can be painfully sickening to us adults. Most of times the only answer i give is "I don't know". But i do encourage my kid to pray in the hope that it provides solace, and will distract the kid from any further questions.
Happy, I think we need to be honest with our answers. Kids must be presented with all the arguments and must be encouraged to think about them and develop their own world-view with which they can lead a loving and compassionate life, essential ingredients for a happy life.

The worst thing we can do is to fill them up with religious doctrines as unassailable truths and demand blind faith to that particular doctrine. So, IMO, "I don't know" could very well be the best answer you can give in many circumstances.

Cheers!
 
Sri Sangom -

Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed response to the questions. Given that you have said it is difficult to sit at one place and type out a long response I appreciate the effort.

Not sure if you will have time to respond to other questions in my last post regarding Dharma and honesty which may or may not be tied to what you have already responded.

I know you are older than me and hence I offer you my Namaskarams.

Your responses on the other hand are 'child-like' to me (I am not saying childish) so I am not sure how to respond.

I do appreciate the sincerity in trying to provide a response though

Regards
 
Happy presented an account, one may agree or disagree with it, but this comment is mean spirited. The LOL prefix may provide an escape route, saying it is a joke, if so, it is a mean-spirited joke putting Happy down.

It is not in my habit to complain to the teacher, but when I see an erudite and reasonable member getting banned because of the complaints made behind the cloak of anonymity and yet she herself gets mocked with impunity -- we don't complain to the teacher and the teacher does not take notice -- I feel the playing field is not level.

Happy getting banned is a sad day indeed for me .....
 
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Originally Posted by tks
Sri Sangom -

Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed response to the questions. Given that you have said it is difficult to sit at one place and type out a long response I appreciate the effort.

Not sure if you will have time to respond to other questions in my last post regarding Dharma and honesty which may or may not be tied to what you have already responded.

I know you are older than me and hence I offer you my Namaskarams.

Your responses on the other hand are 'child-like' to me (I am not saying childish) so I am not sure how to respond.

I do appreciate the sincerity in trying to provide a response though

Regards



Shri tks,

I will see the post referred to by you. But I do not think it will be of any use replying to it, because you are, once again, likely to find it childish or childlike. I can well imagine your state of mind which has been aptly described by the Malayalam poet pūntānam nambūdiri in his immortal work by name jñānappāna. (pāna is incidentally a poetic metre in Malayalam.) The words used by him are—

brāhmaṇyam koṇṭu kontriccu kontriccu brahmāvennu ninaykkunnitu cilar

This means, because of their self-conceit about being brahmins, again and again, some imagine that they verily are brahmā himself. I am driven to the conclusion that most of the "theists" here in this forum fit this description well.

I am unable to attach the screen capture of the 39th. chapter of the Kaanva Shukla YV because there is some glitch in the server and I am unable to upload.
 
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Happy, I think we need to be honest with our answers. Kids must be presented with all the arguments and must be encouraged to think about them and develop their own world-view with which they can lead a loving and compassionate life, essential ingredients for a happy life.

The worst thing we can do is to fill them up with religious doctrines as unassailable truths and demand blind faith to that particular doctrine. So, IMO, "I don't know" could very well be the best answer you can give in many circumstances.

Cheers!

The problem with us as humans and specifically Indians is we dont have the least degree of thick skin. If someone's views upset us, regardless of how sincere it is, it has to be banned. If we are so confident in our tradition, in god etc why we should be upset over some one's criticism. The fact is we dont have confidence in our faith. It is just empty air and the slightest things have to upset people. That maturity is not there.
 
Over the last few weeks, a lot of emails and messages were sent to me by established members and "readers" (readers are those who either do not participate much or do not log in) about posts that had caused them discomfort and anguish. While investigating those, it was found over 90% of those posts were either by HH or because of some posts made by HH.

In light of that i had got in touch with her and lets say "warned" (warn is not the appropriate word, but at this point i cannot think of any other phrase/word) her.

After this she did not post. And the complaints stopped.

Her recent activity has once again brought forth a barrage of emails and private messages. Since i had already "warned" her the next step is to issue a temporary ban and that is why you are seeing a "banned" text under her name.


Agreed she is one of the top contributors but if there is a lot of complaints and issues arising out of what she has been posting, there is not much that can be done. A rule is a rule - irrespective of who it is.

Dear ALL:

I came into this site just by accident (I meant to go to tamilo.com, but my browser took me to this site!) about 6 months ago, and I found very interesting debates and arguments on "General Discussions".

During this time, I found Ms. Happyhindu to be a very knowledgeable person on very many topics; although I don't agree with her views 100%, I mostly enjoyed debating with her.

For sure she can give alternate views on any matter of interest to this Forum.. maybe, her style is very straight forward which may make some of the readers/participants to feel discomfort and "anguish".

Because of some people's objection, labeling her as "Banned" is the most autocratic expression to pander to the sensitivities of some members, IMO.

As a form of protest, I will be visiting this site infrequently - I am deeply involved in Politics and Policies in the US (I will post in WSJ, TheHill etc. under a different pen name Morgan Harry)

Take care.

Peace.
 
I was angered once when the debates with KRS took place. Then there was a genuine desire to move out of forum for personal work but I decided to leave with a discussion on hypocrisy. I was tempted and stayed back. I started a genuine discussion on quantum theory. However considering the events in the forum , I think I made a mistake, to put down so much of my energy into typing in this forum. All in vain, as I have made more enemies than friends,

Like Yamaka I will be there in internet in an alias name. The name I have given in this forum should actually lead to my real name, and if you knew me, by my writing style you will be able to locate me there on the net. One day if you should read a work on the pointless quest of god in science and physics know it is me. I would still visit and pen down my thoughts here for those with whom I had a good experience.

May this forum continue but someday I am sure only if youth start participating here, will it become an open forum.

Bye and friends I will try to see you while I can but the idea for the present is to resist my temptations.
 
... I will be there in internet in an alias name.
Please send the site where you make posts by PM, I would like to follow your writings.

I would still visit and pen down my thoughts here for those with whom I had a good experience.
I request you to continue the QM thread - a very interesting and informative thread.

best regards dear friend ...
 
......Where is God?....

in you,in me in everyone of the beings that we can cognise or not cognise.there is only god's manifestations everywhere.evil and good are state of sense perception,transcending them is ananda or eternal bliss.btw your post is exemplary bravo happy :)
 
praveen,

i am surprised at this treatment of happy hindu.

why dont these members come out in the open and claim that they are the ones who want happy banned and the reasons for the same.

as you can imagine, the more ignorant one is, the more insecure they are , and when we have long established and much contributing members like happy 'banned' arbitrarily, i think, the loss is to the forum and the ideals that it stands for.

you might remember during the threatening days of jamadagneya, it was happy hindu alone, who stood by you and the forum and for its integrity. we had all those fellow travellers chiming with jalras and drumbeats, all in a bleating chorus akin to a lynch mob.

i think the problem is not with happy, but with folks who want her silenced. i think it is best they come out in the open and demand her ouster; i find there is a level of decency and erudity in happy that is not found in many other folks and such treatment of hers is a loss not only to the forum, but also to the point of view and diversity of many respects that she represents.

thank you.
 
praveen,i respect your decisions and i know my friend for our community you definitely are doing a favour,as this biz has created migraines headaches maybe aches elsewhere as well...i am only reminded what goes around comes around aka karma venai....i really know the hurt when one gets banned believe me...
 
....But I do not think it will be of any use replying to it, because you are, once again, likely to find it childish or childlike.
Dear Sangom sir,

You took the trouble of answering the questions and they were found to be childlike, charming isn't? This is a tactic, never commit to anything, ask questions in the hope of finding an opening to criticize and put down. This is why we are unlikely to find their un-childlike answers to these very same questions.

The trouble is, many of the participants from the "other" side have no problem asserting they know "it" and anyone who has a different view and dares to express them are childlike, silly, arrogant (the arrogant charge is the most ironic of all -- breathtaking chutzpah), etc.

I am of the view we all take this very seriously and try to find answers that make the best sense to us. If I characterize the stand with which I disagree as "childlike", I think I would be arrogant and condescending.

Cheers!
 
hi praveen ji
i understand u....all the fingers not the same level...some are big...some small. but all are good....i agreed with ur banning..

it hurts a lot...i had 100% disagreement with HH...may be 101%....but sometime i keep quiet....need a small break....im talking as

human psychic point of view.....really it hurts....u can warn...give a temporary solution.....my humble request....

VIDHYA DADATHI VINYAM.....KNOWLEDGE GIVES HUMBLENESS....MY 2 CENTS...

regards
tbs
 
I was angered once when the debates with KRS took place. Then there was a genuine desire to move out of forum for personal work but I decided to leave with a discussion on hypocrisy. I was tempted and stayed back. I started a genuine discussion on quantum theory. However considering the events in the forum , I think I made a mistake, to put down so much of my energy into typing in this forum. All in vain, as I have made more enemies than friends,

Like Yamaka I will be there in internet in an alias name. The name I have given in this forum should actually lead to my real name, and if you knew me, by my writing style you will be able to locate me there on the net. One day if you should read a work on the pointless quest of god in science and physics know it is me. I would still visit and pen down my thoughts here for those with whom I had a good experience.

May this forum continue but someday I am sure only if youth start participating here, will it become an open forum.

Bye and friends I will try to see you while I can but the idea for the present is to resist my temptations.

so long subbudu. you were a gem and i am so sorry to see you go. i stopped requesting people to stay, for i think it is not only unfair, but ridiculous a request, in the light of prejudices and ignorances one has to wade against.

once again so sorry. adieu for now.
 
hi praveen ji
i understand u....all the fingers not the same level...some are big...some small. but all are good....i agreed with ur banning..

it hurts a lot...i had 100% disagreement with HH...may be 101%....but sometime i keep quiet....need a small break....im talking as

human psychic point of view.....really it hurts....u can warn...give a temporary solution.....my humble request....

VIDHYA DADATHI VINYAM.....KNOWLEDGE GIVES HUMBLENESS....MY 2 CENTS...

regards
tbs

tbs,

you have had 100% disagreement with me too. and it hurts me a lot too. why dont you consider banning yourself a good deed, to save you and myself hurt.

the above statement is an irony and not meant to be read literally.

if you cannot accommodate opposing and other views, i am wondering how you manage a day to day life in public and private, where the only one with identifcal views as yours will be you. and only you.

i think your last quote, is diamterically opposite to the rest of your post. if knowledge truly gave you humblenss, as you claim, then you would be the first person in line, protesting happy hindu's ban. and not joining the jalra crowd lynching for her blood.

based on her erudition and knowledge, happy hindu practises vivaadham based on logic, understanding and references. those who oppose her, are ones who know very little tonothing of what is the true nature of our scriptures and how some of these have been usurped and misused in the past. especially by brahmins. tamil brahmins.

if one disagrees with this, let you or them, bring out counter arguements. to rush to hide behind praveen's veshti seems to me like being crybabies calling for her ban, i think is the rant of cowardice. let us not indulge in either, and bring shame on ourselves.

thank you.
 
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tbs,

you have had 100% disagreement with me too. and it hurts me a lot too. why dont you consider banning yourself a good deed, to save you and myself hurt.

the above statement is an irony and not meant to be read literally.

if you cannot accommodate opposing and other views, i am wondering how you manage a day to day life in public and private, where the only one with identifcal views as yours will be you. and only you.

i think your last quote, is diamterically opposite to the rest of your post. if knowledge truly gave you humblenss, as you claim, then you would be the first person in line, protesting happy hindu's ban. and not joining the jalra crowd lynching for her blood.

based on her erudition and knowledge, happy hindu practises vivaadham based on logic, understanding and references. those who oppose her, are ones who know very little tonothing of what is the true nature of our scriptures and how some of these have been usurped and misused in the past. especially by brahmins. tamil brahmins.

if one disagrees with this, let you or them, bring out counter arguemnts. to rush to hide behind praveen's veshti and being crybabies calling for her ban, i think is the rant of cowardice.

thank you.

dear K sir,
very simple....banning is not good....im against to ban anybody....warning is OKAY..........now clear?,,,,sometimes more than vaadam......its called VIDHANTA VAADAM.....what next?....closing the thread?

regards
tbs
 
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...Without Iswara-anugraha, neither theists nor rationalists can ever realise their follies. This is just my opinion.
Dear narayan sir, your opinion noted. Please permit me to record my opinion, we only need our own internal honesty to realize our folly as there is no Iswara who cares about us, let alone our follies.

... All in al everyone except the rationalists, is a basket case. I was taking exception to this point in the post of Sri Subbdu.
Dear sir, I went back and read Subbudu sir's post #948 again. Honestly, I did not find there anything like what you are saying. He has expressed his view with lots of caveats, qualifying with phrases like "could be" or "may be". Also, he said the visions of god some people claim, even some Acharyas, may have simple natural explanation. IMO, you are extrapolating when you say Subbudu implied, "Acharyas become psychic case".

Then you say, "All in al everyone except the rationalists, is a basket case." as the upshot of Subbudu sir's view.

I welcome taking exceptions to what you disagree with. However, what you disagree with must be something Subbudu actually said or implied. I am sorry, even after careful reading of post 948, I did not find Subbudu saying anything like what you have deduced, directly or indirectly. May be I am not reading carefully enough, if so, please show me what I am overlooking.

In the said post the rationalist had "appropriated" the position of Brhman and dismissed the other claims as delusionis or illusions etc.
IMO, unverifiable claims of personal experience and intuition can never be accepted as valid evidence for the proposition God Exists. Dismissing them does not mean the rationalists have assumed the position of "Brhman".

You have taken exception to characterizing such claims as delusion or illusion, I am not sure why. Delusion is strong unwavering belief in something that is unsubstantiated. So, the word aptly describes Theists. In psychiatry this word may have a pathological meaning, but, in as much as we are not talking about psychiatric conditions and only about beliefs, I take the word to mean holding on to absolute conviction in unproven or unprovable views.


How can wanting to be a "rational" be a folly? Presuming that rationalists know everything under the sun and giving out labels to others as "delusionists" etc. is folly.
If somebody presumes he/she knows everything under the sun, then, by definition he/she is not a rationalist. If a rationalist is anything he/she is a skeptic, skeptical of even his/her own convictions that you keep checking and double checking. So, I have to dismiss your statement that a rationalist presumes to know everything. Surely we have a lot by way of folly, but this is not one of them.

Anyway, here is a news item that "human brain may be have reached its full capacity and cant get cleverer", so theists and atheists may have to devise means to peacefully co-exist. Has our brain reached full capacity? - The Times of India
I read this, interesting. This again is an example of science trying to push the frontier of knowledge via careful observation. Whether the reported observation has any merit or not will get flushed out by other interested scientists. But, we can be sure that none of them will categorically state that they have the truth because somebody said so 2000 or 5000 years ago.

Cheers!
 
....we only need our own internal honesty to realize our folly as there is no Iswara who cares about us,....

when you write "we" and "realize" there is that magic within us to care and reach out...who is this we? it is ishwara is what believers will chant.rationalist will deny ishwara but give their name or just mortal?what is inside the body is ishwara :)
 
Some of you take this internet forum postings very seriously in life. You need to pull back for a day and pause, reflect on how much you got immersed into one bulletin board and lost out the aspect called entertainment and fun.

Personally I would not have issued a 'temporary ban' on HH, as my tolerance levels are a bit high in these matters. Having said that, a site owner/moderator has his own prerogative and reasons and one must respect that. He also took pains to explain as much as he can, something that doesn't happen in other forums.

On their part, HH and others shouldn't take this 'temporary ban' seriously. You might not know this personal story - Yahoo used to have a free-for-all message boards in its early years. And I, being one of the very earliest members of yahoo (dating back to 1993) got banned by yahoo, all because I copied and pasted ("quoted") another member's post as reference! I lost my yahoo account. It hurt very badly at that time. I had important emails, job related correspondences etc in that mailbox (those days there wasn't even Win95, let alone personal computers; we used our university workstations). Yahoo was clearly unfair. It didn't even ban the other member who made the original post. It wouldn't respond to my queries on explanation. The post wasn't even offensive, foul or other objectionable matter. It was someone who claimed "this stock will fall". I merely reproduced it, and a stupid yahoo moderator assumed I made that original post that provoked many objections from the stock buyers. In fact, I was one of the stock buyers! Imagine my agony. And I had to live with that unfair treatment. I moved on. Later in many more forums I have had similar treatments and in every case it was unfair. But by then I had learned that it is a price I pay to hang around internet forums.

Each forum is special. It is meant for certain underlying theme, purpose, a target audience. It is necessary for everyone to respect that. The forums aren't about "free speech". Even the self-styled free-speech site like Craigslist is full of censorship. You need to visit its "isle" to see how many genuine posts get isled and members censored.

Nobody stops you from starting your own forum in internet and be your own king. But stop trying to act like you are a crusader for free-speech all because one member got a 'temporary ban'. Some of you act like the sky has fallen on your heads! Your behaviour is hilarious at best, and hysterical at the other end. This site focus is about Tamil Brahmins. Learn to respect the theme. Try to be less of a Brahmin Basher here. Want to hate Brahmins or Brahminism? Start your own site. It is FREE in a million platforms like blogspot. But if you insist on remaining in a brahmin website and your brahmin bashing posts are bounded between lies and ignorance, be prepared to see a backlash. What else do you expect? A Trophy?!
 
drB,

your post #1072:

sir, to me, the forum, is more entertainment than a cause. by and large.

but every one of us, has some topic or the other, where we are passionate. to me the treatment of women in our society is important. i have an unassuaged anger at the past, over which i have no control to influence. i accept that.

i have had beautiful aunts shorn of hair, castigated as mundais and peedais, and considered ill omen, and shunned in every function. just 50 years ago, when i was young, and indelibly imprinted in my mind.

the perpetrators of this ignominy were educated lawyers and doctors, who held high status in their society, but at home, were tyrants whose anger filled the space of the women with terror and intimidation. it was not just one case. it was the norm.

later on, when infirm, these mellowed, and the women used to awe, as to how 'soft' these once hard men have become. which used to rile me up more.

my own maternal grandpa was one such, and i was in my teens when he died, son less. i did the rites, but not willingly as i could not in all honesty
agree with the man's life values, and 47 years later, i still have not changed, and only become more firm in what i felt then. i was cowed by my mom
into doing the kiriyais, which i did, indifferently. i cannot believe, that once a brahmin dies, he becomes a semi sacred pithru, demanding of veneration, while being a lessthanhonourablel in his life here on earth. atleast the way, i saw it then, and continue to do so, 47 years later.

so you see, drB, when one hits a raw nerve on a topic that i am passionate about, all my sense of humour and light heartedness goes to the winds.

i am quite sure, there may be subjects dear to your heart, where all logic and sanity fades into vapour, and feelings overwhelm any caution towards reason or logic. if not so, i think, you are one of a lucky few, to view the world with a socreatean calmness. bless you sir for that, then.

re brahmin bashing, all of us, depending on a time stamp, are brahmin bashers. i do not know if you have daughters, but if you do, i would bet, that you treat them as equals to your sons (if you have any) in terms of treatment, love, affection, education, urge to jobs opportunities and above all, that she is on par with a male progeny.

tambrams did not treat their daughters such till recently. these were lucky if they were educated to sslc. if they were widowed, they were damned, as described above in my post. any latent talent was suppressed. tambrams had double standards, and it is no honest excuse to say, that other
communities practised it too, or these tambrams were men of their times and values.

sir, you are PhD, and, i presume, a believer, not only in scientific proof, but also in the concept that when it comes to science, a researcher, man
or woman, is only as good, as the effort she or he puts in. there is no discrimination based on gender, right? and whom did these brahmins
discriminate agains? their own mothers, wives, sisters, daughters.

if you agree with the way those women were treated, i will not venture any more. on the other hand, being a reasonable man of today, i think,
you will not subject, if given a chance, the women folk of your house, to such indignity. but then, your grandfather will call you a brahmin basher.
:) it is all relative. like the pot calling the kettle black. n'est pas?

so, too happy hindu. i see the good lady as the future of hinduism. she is not of the brahmin caste, but more erudite, and a critique to our practices with a bent on retrospection, and reformation. knowledgeable folks here, enjoy the battle of wits with her. the more ignorant ones, resort to name
calling, and as a last resort, try to hide under the folds of praveen's ownerhip dhoti. and these are honourable men, as mark anthony would say,
during the funerary of julius caesar.

btw, i agree with amala, re your grooming. a dapper young lad, with just the right amount of fading hirsuteness, a salt and pepper mop with shiny
globules of genius, partly hidden under the stern visage. in short, a gentleman and a scholar.

greetings to you sir. :)
 
This site focus is about Tamil Brahmins. Learn to respect the theme. Try to be less of a Brahmin Basher here. Want to hate Brahmins or Brahminism? Start your own site.
This canard never stops. Praveen is the owner of this site and he decides what is allowed and what is not, not some Johnny come lately.

Rejecting Brahminism is not bashing anyone, but unfortunately, this is too complicated a concept for some.

The fact of the matter is, those who defend the good old tradition, the ones who wish to pass off as defenders of Brahmins, are the worst enemies of Brahmins, as they flout every last rule of what a "Brahmin's" life is supposed to be and yet have the audacity to tell the poor Brahmin trying to make ends meet, to cling to Brahmin glory, and how sublime Brahminism is -- hypocrites the lot of them.
 
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kunju,plz let go off the old wounds of family let downs.i know you in the forum to be gentle kind man.happy is a big girl,she is strong spirited lady.believe me she will bounce back,she is no loser.and i do like the way you put it about her wearing hinduism on her sleeve.yup she is one helluva cheerleader :)
 
<
making public the private messages is not a good thing. private messages are meant to be private and making them public makes me think you want to bolster your case (whatever it might be). it is next to impossible to stop multiple user accounts and what not. if you would like to use this id, feel free as long yesterday is dragged to today. Yesterday is over.

It is a thankless job and i am quite aware for every action there will be multiple reactions. I cannot do anything about it nor can i do something that will please all. I act based on what i feel is important - irrespective of who it is. People were banned in the past for various reasons that i do not need to discuss with anyone. We had a mod team who was involved in all such incidents.

I simply do not have to explain every action of mine or of the mod team. Some will like it and some will not. Thats how it goes.

End of the day, the onus falls on the member to ensure his posts are not perceived in a different way. Period.
>
 
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