God Exists

[ShivKC]

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Hello ALL:

I want to reiterate what I have been writing so far -

1::When we get a chest pain, we immediately call 911 for medical help.
Many of the Theists love this SET, and they have a professional living in SET.

2. However, some of the Theists who make a living in SET, hate SET and bad mouth about it everyday of their existence...

3. (about 800 million poor Indians, in spite of praying their Gods all their lives still languish in abject poverty)

4. What's very interesting is, most troubled souls are the Theists -

Yam, you wont get annoyed if i call this post as just another rant and rave!!

lets go crispy here..

1) why one would spend billions to set up a 911, unless you are driven to do 'good to others' with the claim of survival of the fittest. i remember you telling, you reached high by your hard work. but you forgot, you reached high, by over riding some one, with the predatory nature of yours.. why you did not sacrifice your merit and ranking and be an altruist to let the 2nd rank holder to take over you? 911 is not set with such attitude.. its set on altruism, with the sacrifice of ones own tax money. it can never happen in a country with a emboss on its currency "In God We DONT Trust'.. show me an eg, to prove me wrong.

2) SET is definitely a product of theism. i have addressed this issue before, but you stayed away from it. religion dont need to stay away from science and see it as a satan.. the quest for unknown, unknown power, super natural power was the result of religion, not atheism which doctrinate's to take life as it is. the search for unknown power has what lead to explorations . hope you wont prick here with galileo! if so, we can have a separate discussion on it, to check the merits of that issue.

3) regarding your repetitive rants, raves and rabbiting about indian poverty, rather your 150 ruppee bench mark, you escaped answering my previous post to quantify the GDP of atheist countries.. you dont want to do that home work, so sad!.. and dont want to debate why the bill of USD carries 'in god we trust'.. sir, can you attempt to answer these?

4) this part we shall discuss in detail, separately..

thanks in advance.

 

[Yamaka]

On the Super-Natural Gods, Fatalism and India's Backwardness:

By definition, Theists believe in the existence of a Super-Natural God or Agency, mostly in the form of a Super Man - standing somewhere in the Universe controlling ALL activities of ALL living beings, including human beings and inanimate materials.

Abrahamic Religions don't subscribe to the Janma Poorva Karma (JPK) another HOAX that Hinduism propounds... JPK demands Rebirth of Soul and Reincarnation.

If you combine the two above, as per Hinduism person has no FREE WILL.. all PRE-ORDAINED.. nothing of the efforts of the individual will CHANGE anything.

This is Fatalism per se.

This idea or the concept of Fatalism has really served poorly India and Indians...

That's the prime reason why nearly 800 million people in India are in abject poverty, and in intellectual backwardness, IMO.

More later....

 

[Yamaka]

On Economic Growth and Personal Behavior of People living in India and China -

I posited elsewhere that comparing India and China is very appropriate for the following reasons -

1. Large population, similar population density.

2. Both are dubbed as the Fastest Growing Economies. Both have lately embraced the profit-seeking, wealth-amassing Capitalism of the West.

3. Both are very ancient Cultures.

But these two countries are fundamentally different in the Belief and Worship of Gods, and their political decision making.

a. China is largely an Atheist land at least since the Cultural Revolution of Chairman Mao. Almost 90% of India are Theists. Indians spend enormous time in worshiping their Puronic Gods by their "prayers, poojas and bhajans".. Chinese largely don't spend anytime in worshiping any God.

b. Political decision making is by One-Party consensus in China, while India has a multi-Party democracy of some sort.

Now, let us look at their performance -

1. The per capita GDP in China is about $4000 per year, while for India it is about $1800 per year (Official rate. On PPP the figures go up by the same factor... PPP is not quite comparable because of difference in the quality and quantity of goods & services in the basket)

2. There are about 40 million Indians locked up in the jails for "alleged" felony, or "debauchery", while only about 20 million are in the jails of China.

Now, it is up to the readers to know what Religion and Gods have done to Indians at least in the last 64 years, since Independence...

God and its Fatalism has served very poorly most Indians, I conclude.

More later...

ps. My figure of Crime/Locked up is very high.. because a good portion includes "not proved in the Court of Law" both in China and India! If you reduce the number, the proportion will remain the same, IMO. Others may come up with other figures... still I believe that my conclusion remains the same and is very significant.

 

[ShivKC]

This is Fatalism per se.

some where you touched me with a point to quest for.. fatalism is something which even i couldn't buy, cos, if i buy it, it would prove all my earlier said points wrong, logically

that doesn't mean, just because of this, rest of all the goodness of theism could all be wrong..

may be , there must be some thing good about 'fatalism', which i may not be an expert in it.. may be, yet another good member here would be of helpful to you here.


as i said earlier, lets discuss things broadly.. if one throws luther/mutt another throws pol pot, which is not good for a healthy discussion..

 

[ShivKC]

a. China is largely an Atheist land at least since the Cultural Revolution of Chairman Mao. Almost 90% of India are Theists. Indians spend enormous time in worshiping their Puronic Gods by their "prayers, poojas and bhajans".. Chinese largely don't spend anytime in worshiping any God.

could you please wind the clock back by 50 years and do a similar analysis? with the same style, i can also cite the gdp of chzek/estonia, and these kind of analysis take us no where to a conclusion

the topic which we are discussing should be debated with a worldview and global statistics. here i stick on to one broad data that atheist form max 2% globally. do you thing these 2% are ones who is solely contributing the global economy?

 

[prasad1]

<edited and removed>
Once again, please take into account the sentiments of other people who are active readers and participants here. Constantly posting provocative statements will only cause more friction.

 

[sangom]

shankar sir, if this is what the problem you find with religions, with the famous quote 'sunday christians', then, they have all the freedom and choice to exit and continue their pursuit of god, through Hinduism, islam,buddhism etc..freedom to choose the path towards god is respected globally, right

but you being an atheist or little milder agnostic, and as believer (believer again) of 'the fittest would survive, one lack the basic opportunity, to even encourage the community living, which is rendered through temples/churches/mosques/synagogues. believers live a community living, rendered through their places of worship, where as atheism make them to lead a jungle life and force them to predatory, to win over the other..

Dear Shri Shiv,

I am not against religion - any religion. In my post what I am saying is that in most parts of India there is a great preoccupation of the people with matters religious; the only exception (if I may say so) I witnessed in Guwahati during my stay there in the early 1970's. But there again, one could witness religious frenzy of a high degree in the Kamakhya temple!

I do not believe and I think you will also, honestly speaking, concede that the days of temples, churches etc., engendering community living, cohesion of households, strengthening of the wider family bonds, etc., are no longer applicable and it is not uncommon or rare to find these religious institutions being objects of power-politics and tussle for control by different vested interests. Please do not conclude therefore that religions with their places of worship promote community living and welfare and, contrarily, atheism which has no belief in god, hence no place of worship has to theoretically result in jungle life. Anyway, you will agree that even if your hypothesis (which I do not agree at all with) is taken as true for a moment, the atheists of today roam about in the same concrete jungles in their gas-powered autos, much like the believers, won't you?

((On a weekday, it is nearly impossible to tell a Christian from an atheist.))

very much true. aren't you indicating all these christians are good only on sunday, and rest of the 6 days of week, they are as bad as an atheist!! i'm with you here, atleast religion has made a person to be good, atleast for one day in a week, be it friday/sunday/tuesday!!

As I said above, you seem to have only strict B&W vision; no grey areas for you. Why should it be that if a Christian looks like an atheist, he becomes an atheist, ipso facto? For that matter how many highly religious minded hindus of today can be identified as separate from atheists in any of our metros? And, I feel being religious does not at all guarantee being good persons; otherwise how do you justify Ravana (a great Siva Bhakta), and Karna and similar other personalities who are held to be historical facts by the religious-minded people?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Anyway, you will agree that even if your hypothesis (which I do not agree at all with) is taken as true for a moment, the atheists of today roam about in the same concrete jungles in their gas-powered autos, much like the believers, won't you?

As I said above, you seem to have only strict B&W vision; no grey areas for you. Why should it be that if a Christian looks like an atheist, he becomes an atheist, ipso facto? For that matter how many highly religious minded hindus of today can be identified as separate from atheists in any of our metros? And, I feel being religious does not at all guarantee being good persons

The theists are not putting the atheists on trial here. It is the atheist group who is putting the theists on trial. Theists are characterized as irrationals, hypocrites, fools, cheats, causing poverty etc etc. In light of this fact, Sangom's post noting that theists are not much different from atheists appears to be same-side goal

 

[wrongan]

The theists are not putting the atheists on trial here. It is the atheist group who is putting the theists on trial. Theists are characterized as irrationals, hypocrites, fools, cheats, causing poverty etc etc. In light of this fact, Sangom's post noting that theists are not much different from atheists appears to be same-side goal

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------I I appreciate your post and concur with you .I want to draw the attention of our beloved members that some of our tb members express diametrically opposite views to almost all threads .May be to attract more people to read them or they find pleasure in that.
LOKO BINNA RUCHIHI.( people have different tastes.)

 

[nachi naga]

one of the best websites in cyber space..every itsy bitsy is dissected and discussed...even though audio is not there,yet ppl get wired up...i have heard bitter truth truth delievered in kind soft dulcet voice and strangely accept the truth

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Siva, that is fine, but I do standby my statement.

You take exception to my statement that was not about any person, not an indictment of anyone, it was about the nature of religious belief, any religious belief. But you felt so much hurt that you wanted the moderators to take note and take action. Yet, all the vile statements that people routinely make against me day after day did not make any impression upon you. I am sure you have your own reasons for it. Let it be.

Criticizing one's beliefs is what an argument is all about. If you say the very act of criticizing beliefs that I oppose is itself hurtful, then why have any discussion at all, we all can have a bhajan session instead. I reject such a view.

In the last few posts I have shown clearly why my statement that religion and faith can make an otherwise loving person act badly, is valid. Simply saying this is hurtful is not a proper response IMO. Tell me why I am wrong, I am willing to stand corrected.

Cheers!

Naraji,

I appreciate your feelings. I am dead against criticising any individual. I have condemned such an action in this very thread itself. I also feel that some of the comments made by ShvKC are unwanted and are more directed at you as an individual. It is not good. This morning, I heard Suki Sivam mentioning in Kalyaana maalai (SUN TV) as follows:
"When one starts listening to the opponent's views, only then human civilisation matures". It is my opinion too. I can understand your hurt when people resort to personal attack. I would never do it. But at the same time, I cannot speak for all theists though we share the same ideology on Theism. I have taken some of your criticisms in good spirits. Similarly, I have taken the views of Sangom sir and K in right perspective. I would however urge you not to make statement which is hurtful to majority of people. Though it is not a personal attack, it can be construed as a "personal attack on a group of individuals". Let me assure you that I do feel hurtful for the personal attack against you.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Nara opined "Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly".

I agree fully with this statement because it is quite possible for a good person behave badly because of practices of religion, beliefs in God and Supernatural Super Man standing somewhere in the Universe controlling ALL activities of the Universe.

Where is the reason to feel hurt here?

I think the Theists here are a bunch of very excessively emotional people!

ROFL.. then LOL.


ps. About a year ago this is what I read in Times of India: A father in UP poisoned and killed his own daughter who was an IT professional in Delhi. The crime she committed was that she married a man of a different caste, the father totally disapproved of.. You see here, normally this man was not a killer... but when his religious / caste Belief came on to him, he became a murderer.. He is in prison now.... perhaps, this is what religion does to normal people!

So, if a caste-fanatic person kills his daughter for an IC marriage, it is interpreted as a "proof" that "Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly". So much so for the "elite" people!!
You, theists, why don't you simply accept that religion or faith in God makes you behave bad?? Else you risk the "rational" people come with more "evidence"

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Good bye to this issue.

There is a clear and ample distinction between spirituality and religion. It is said that religion tends to be sectarian.
It is based on belief and partially distorted by some of the followers. It all depends on one's own faith on
account of instances, occurrences, etc. make them to reach a destination.

After my retirement, I started spending lot of time reading different religious books, particularly mythological leads,
ancient temple history books, rudram, samakam, etc. Sometimes, I go on temple tours and attend satsangam
lectures and pravachanam of learned people. I can say I am a very simple person and I do not have anything
to boast myself that I know everything. Whatever little knowledge, I come across through reading books;
gather through temple visits, etc., I do not go through nets and download information for submitting in this
forum. I wanted to share with my brahmin community. I do not want to enter into controversy any more.
My wife, whom I show about the information I share with you in this forum, has mentioned that let us get out
of this unwanted misunderstanding dialogues any more. I do not want to hurt anybody's feelings. My conscious
says that the "existence of God is self evident" which no one can deny. Thank you for giving me an opportunity
to share my views on this issue so far.

Balasubramanian

Balu sir,

You are not alone in having this feeling. There are many. But please contribute to TB forum - not necessarily in this thread. Please share your knowledge under "Religion, Spirituality, Pooja" forum. I believe that this forum needs people like you.

 

[sangom]

So, if a caste-fanatic person kills his daughter for an IC marriage, it is interpreted as a "proof" that "Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly". So much so for the "elite" people!!
You, theists, why don't you simply accept that religion or faith in God makes you behave bad?? Else you risk the "rational" people come with more "evidence"

Dear Shri Siva,

I feel (from your avtar photo) that you are a very young man. Hence even if you are highly educated and qualified and very intelligent etc., you will surely lack some of the experiences that comes with age which can be acquired only by slogging one's life out in this world for more number of years. In this context there was (till a few years back, when the said old lady expired) one Christian woman, a sweeper in a Christian-managed colleged in Kerala who was illiterate (strange for a highly literate state) but was the only repository of traditional knowledge about Christianity and more particularly the farm workers' songs and "mArgam kaLI" songs, a special form of group dance similar to our kummi. (Kerala ladies of Amsterdam performing this dance.)

On a similar note I may humbly say that the case of the father killing daughter is just one very extreme case reported but for each such case there may be thousands of lesser crimes being perpetrarted by the gullible folk who believe, may be, "too much", according to emancipated theists, in religion and its many manifestations like astrology, mantravaada or magical rites, Tantric rites, etc. I can give you a few anecdotes but that will only make this post very lengthy. Hence the statement that Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly is partly at least correct; such people fall easy victims to charlatans out to swindle them.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Sangom sir,

Thank you for your opening words. I agree that I have miles..... to go. But I am born in a big family surrounded by a lot of friends and amily members. I also read. So, I do have "my share"hwell: of experience!

Sir, any person when he or she does something (bad), it is most of the time due to one of the following:
1. That is the nature/character of that person
2. The person was under the influence of emotions or alcohol
3. To "teach a lesson" to one's opponents
4. The circumstances "warrant" such an action
5. "Mob culture" or "social pressure"


I don't think it would ever be due to one's faith in one's religion or in one's God. When the statement that one does something bad due to one's faith in religion/God itself is wrong, how can we accept the inverse (i.e., faith in religion/God makes an otherwise good person to behave badly)?

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear balu sir !
i am also sailing in the same boat. as said by sri Haridas continue your experience with TB.it is left to the individual to take it as per the kural குணம்நாடி குற்றமு நாடி அவற்றுள்
மிகைநாடி மிக்க கொளல்
narayanan

 

[sangom]

Sangom sir,

Thank you for your opening words. I agree that I have miles..... to go. But I am born in a big family surrounded by a lot of friends and amily members. I also read. So, I do have "my share"hwell: of experience!

Sir, any person when he or she does something (bad), it is most of the time due to one of the following:
1. That is the nature/character of that person
2. The person was under the influence of emotions or alcohol
3. To "teach a lesson" to one's opponents
4. The circumstances "warrant" such an action
5. "Mob culture" or "social pressure"


I don't think it would ever be due to one's faith in one's religion or in one's God. When the statement that one does something bad due to one's faith in religion/God itself is wrong, how can we accept the inverse (i.e., faith in religion/God makes an otherwise good person to behave badly)?

Dear Shri Siva,

I feel that you are able to look at "one's faith in religion/God" only according to your own method/s of doing those things. As I said earlier, you belong surely to the emancipated class, so to say, thanks to the secular education you have received, examples set by your equally emancipated parents and elders as also your wide reading. But this world comprises very different types of people and even in India there are people still living, who implicitly believe in sorcery, tantric ways to locate and obtain hidden treasures, performing human sacrifice for achieving their secret desires and so on and so forth. I just did a google search for news on "human sacrifice" and got 2130 results! I give below one or two samples:

Posted on Oct 28, 2011 at 01:15pm IST


Tantrik, three others arrested for human sacrifice

Thu Oct 27 2011, 16:37 hrs

Four persons, including a tantrik, were arrested today for an alleged human sacrifice at a village near here last month, police said today.
“The tantrik and the men had killed Baluswamy (45) on September 20 on a plot in T Begur village in Bangalore Rural district, as human sacrifice to unearth ‘hidden treasure’,” they said.
Tantrik Linagappa Basavanappa Ullambi, Krishnamurthi, Naveen and Thimmaiah were arrested this morning.
Police are on the look out for two others allegedly involved in the crime.


Bangalore: Four arrested for 'human sacrifice'

The New Indian Express


BANGALORE: Nelamangla police of Bangalore Rural district have arrested four treasure hunters who allegedly sacrificed a person for getting treasure. The accused have been identified as Ningappa Basavannappa Hullambi alias Mahesh, Krishnamurthy, Naveen Kumar and Timmaraju. Four other accused are still absconding and police are trying to trace them, the police said.
On October 22, one Venkataranasappa, a resident of Araledibba village in Begur found a body in a decomposed state in the Eucalyptus groove in the village nd informed the police. Police rushed to the spot and found the body without the skull. When searched, they found the skull 40 meters away from the spot.
Police said that, miscreants had dug a place where Veeragallu (hero stone) was situated in Begur and threw the body in the Eucalyptus groove in the village. The police suspected the role of treasure hunters behind this heinous crime.
Police arrested four treasure hunters who allegedly sacrificed a person for getting treasure.

After investigation, the police found that one Balaswamy (45) of RMC Yard was the victim. Nelamangla police who have registered a case said the accused, Ningappa Basavannappa Hullambi alias Mahesh and the other seven, with the intention of sacrifice to get the treasure, had killed Balaswamy.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

News updated at 6:06 PM IST
Deccan Herald

Sunday 30 October 2011

Superstitious step
Woman sacrifices minor to woo hubby
Sanjay Pandey, Lucknow, October 8, DHNS:

In yet another case of superstition-driven freaky act, a woman in Uttar Pradesh's Ballia district has sacrificed a seven-year-old neighbourhood girl, allegedly to bring her estranged husband back home as suggested by her ‘tantrik’ (exorcist) brother.

The body of the girl, Beenu, covered with a red ‘chunri’ (a piece of cloth used during rituals), was recovered from a well on Friday. Usha Devi, a resident of Sahdeshwa village, her brother Munna Sharma and two others have been taken into custody.

According to police, Usha was abandoned by her husband soon after marriage. She decided to sacrifice a minor girl to woo her husband on the advice of her tantrik brother during the nine-day festival of Navratra which began on September 28.

Usha managed to lure Beenu, daughter of their neighbour Avadhesh Upadhyay, into her house on Vijayadashmi day on Thursday proising sweets and money. The girl was applied vermilion and covered with a red ‘chunri’ after which the duo performed some rituals. Beenu was allegedly strangled to death after the pooja and her body was dumped in a well.

Usha also tried to hoodwink the police by telling them that Beenu had been abducted by someone, but a child of the same village proved her nemesis. Based on the information given by the boy, who had seen Beenu in Usha's house on Dasara day, the police managed to trap the culprits.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The glorious tradition of "religion" has such ghastly fall-outs also and our theist friends are smugly arguing for religion as if it makes man into a superman and that the myriad havans and poojas esoterically help to improve the welfare of the world (Loka Santhi, universal welfare and similar grandiose claims are inevitable tooted as the aim/objective of many a religious performance with funds collected (? swindled) from the public; is it not clear that such havans/poojas do not even bring about Santhi or welfare within India itself, not to mention about the world or universe?)

It requires intellectual honesty and a certain amount of supreme concern for the general welfare of the people, for someone, to come out of the deep hypnotism of religion which normal upbringing assures an average Indian.

 

[Yamaka]

The theists are not putting the atheists on trial here. It is the atheist group who is putting the theists on trial. Theists are characterized as irrationals, hypocrites, fools, cheats, causing poverty etc etc. In light of this fact, Sangom's post noting that theists are not much different from atheists appears to be same-side goal

Dear KB & Others:

I am only asking simple and obvious questions:

For all the "prayers, poojas and bhajans" those 800 million people (who are in abject poverty) of God involved in, is it unreasonable to ask for some relief from the Almighty God, if HE exists?

Since for a long time there is no tangible relief, Atheists like me conclude that either HE does not exist or HE doesn't care (meaning He is not the Most Compassionate Power!).

Some of you will say, "Oh, how about these people's Janma Poorva Karma"?

Won't the prayers, poojas and bhajans neutralize this?

Even during their previous births / generations, is it not that this All powerful God who controlled and regulated their activities?

If you believe all this, then how is this poor people responsible for their life?

Are they condemned to suffer like this forever?

Enlighten me.

Show me where do we characterize Theists as "irrationals, hypocrites, fools, cheats, causing poverty etc etc"!??

Maybe, you surmise from such simple questions! Are we responsible for it?


ps. As a self-proclaimed Atheist, I have a cozy life beyond anyone's imagination! - I need not get the wrath of so many Theists.. why I do this?

Because I am in Pragmatic Solidarity with the poor and voiceless, as a matter of simple principle! Lol.

 

[Yamaka]

So, if a caste-fanatic person kills his daughter for an IC marriage, it is interpreted as a "proof" that "Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly". So much so for the "elite" people!!
You, theists, why don't you simply accept that religion or faith in God makes you behave bad?? Else you risk the "rational" people come with more "evidence"

I gave just one example... killing or harassment because of IC marriage, and the so-called "Honor Killing" for going against the Religion/Caste among Muslims and myriad other activities of Theists attest to the validity of the statement that Nara was making...

I am only supporting Nara's statement because I believe it is true...

Let the Theists come up with their arguments to support their non-existent God!

 

[Nara]

So, if a caste-fanatic person kills his daughter for an IC marriage, it is interpreted as a "proof" that "Religion, God and Faith in the Supernatural makes it possible for otherwise good people to behave badly". So much so for the "elite" people!!
You, theists, why don't you simply accept that religion or faith in God makes you behave bad?? Else you risk the "rational" people come with more "evidence"

Siva, the point I am making is somewhat nuanced. It is not my position that the only thing religion and faith in god is good for is to make people behave badly -- that is NOT what I am saying.

This caste fanatic person killing his daughter is an extreme example, it may have had more to do with his sense of honor, inability to control anger, and a host of other things. However, he is able to offer a religious justification for his act, which many may not buy, but some will, on the basis religion.

Leaving such extreme cases aside, in day-to-day life, ordinary Brahmins behave abominably, treating NBs as they have been taught to treat, a behavior that many of us will see as utter contempt. I know some of these people and they are such nice people, wouldn't hurt a fly, and very loving and generous. Yet, I have seen them treat NBs in a way that I wouldn't want to be treated by anybody.

Let me give you one more example. I know a Vadama convert to SV. He is a great scholar, very much respected, highly regarded by everyone, and if he was born SV he would be a natural choice to head the SV Matham he chose to belong to. Yet, he cannot sit next to an observant SV of the Matham to eat because he cannot be considered pure enough acharam-wise. This from people singing the praise of Bhagavat Ramanuja -- rAmAjArya divyAn!jA vardhatAm abhivardhatAm, rAmAnujArya divyAn~jA prativAsara mujjvalA -- a Vadama convert himself.

The jAti-based thinking has become so ingrained that nobody even questions any of them. This is a result of Dharmashasthras, a religious text, and this is what I am talking about. Of course, there are many examples that can be cited of other relgions as well, which I have already done.

In summary, do you still think all this just hot air of some "elite" people?

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

We have already seen here as to how religion (which invariably has a superstitious - an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fearcontent - content) promotes some very unsocial fall outs. Here is one example of the truth that religion does not ordinarily refine or improve the moral quality of a person howsoever high he may be in the religious hierarchy which is usually synonymous with spiritual hierarchy:—

(Googled for 'swamiji arrested' and got 2,22,000 results; the following are some.)

Sunday, October 30, 2011 3:07:34 PM (IST)
26
Andhra Police Arrest Raghavendra Tirtha Swamiji, Seize 20 Idols, Cash

Manju Neereshwallya
Daijiworld Media Network

Kadapa (AP), Oct 30: Raghavendra Tirtha Swamiji, former disciple and disowned successor of Shrimad Sudhindra Teertha Swamiji of Kashi Mutt Samsthan, was arrested by Andhra police at his flat in Indiranagar, Kadapa on Saturday October 29.

(The complete news along with photos of the thief and the stolen goods can be viewed here.)

Another news:

ganapati sachchidananda swamiji arrested for forging land documents in land grab case.

Yet another enticing news, but somewhat dated:—

Apr 9th, 2003
Breast massaging swami arrested

---

Police in India have arrested a swami who claimed massaging the breasts of childless women would help them get pregnant.

The Deccan Chronicle says Kuchamardhana Swamy, alias Gottimukkala Babu Rao, was arrested at the Sri Rajarajeswari temple at Parkal in Andhra Pradesh after a complaint was lodged by a social worker

Hundreds of women had been visiting him on Mondays and Saturdays to have their breasts massaged, because they believed it would result in motherhood.

[h=3]Barsana Dham's Shree Swamiji, for indecency ...

[/h]www.sajaforum.org/2008/04/arrested-barsan.htmlCached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
29 Apr 2008 – The seventy-nine-year-old founder of Barsana Dham, a 200-acre Hindu temple and ashram complex on the outskirts of Austin, was arrested ...

[h=1]AP Police arrest Mutt Swamiji in connection with cheque bounce case[/h]
Bangalore, Mar 12 : Andhra Pradesh Police arrested Swamiji of the Sosale Vyasaraja Mutt in a cheque bounce case, here today.

According to Mutt sources, the Swamiji was picked up by the Andhra Police following an arrest warrant issued by a local court in Kadapa in Andhra Pradesh.

The Swamiji had reportedly issued several cheques to a person in Kadapa, which were returned following no balance in the bank account of the Swamiji.

The Swamiji reportedly was facing several cases of fraud at different places, including Tirupati, Madhurai, Srirangam courts.

Following the arrest of the swamiji, the devotees of Sosale Mutt demanded Swamiji to resign from the mutt.
- Agencies
Mar 12, 2011

AP Police arrest Mutt Swamiji in connection with cheque bounce case - Chennaionline News

Swamiji, followers arrested on charge of kidnapping, released
Staff Correspondent



HUBLI: Manikya Vrishabhendra Swamiji of Devanakonda in Kalghatgi taluk of Dharwad district and six of his followers, who were arrested on Friday on the charge of kidnapping, were released on Saturday after a local court granted them bail.
The police arrested the swamiji and his followers at Mishrikoti village on Friday night after they reportedly tried to forcibly take three persons, including two women, to Bailhongal.
According to the police, the incident was the outcome of an old case which was pending before the court. The case pertained to an assault attempt reportedly by the swamiji on Manjunath Puradanagoudra of the same village.On Friday, the swamiji saw Siddanagouda, elder brother of Manjunath, at the bus stop and reportedly abused him. The followers of the swamiji also tried to assault him. However, Siddanagouda escaped.

Sunday, Aug 26, 2007

http://www.hindu.com/2007/08/26/stories/2007082652330300.htm

 

[கால பைரவன்]

All these examples are fine. But for every one of these, a counter example can be provided wherein religion or belief in God is not the cause. A counter example can be provided wherein religion is not the tool. So these cannot be taken as proofs that "belief in God makes a person bad".

 

[zebra16]

I cant understand the flow of thought. If the patients in a hospital die due to wrong diagnosis or wrong medication or doctor's negligence, is the medical science to be blamed?

 

[Nara]

I cant understand the flow of thought. If the patients in a hospital die due to wrong diagnosis or wrong medication or doctor's negligence, is the medical science to be blamed?

Narayan, what if the diagnosis, treatment, and medication were all diligently administered by a qualified doctor?

My argument is, it is following certain hoary and revered principles of religion that result in an otherwise loving person act badly. I have given many examples. If this was medical science, the textbook would have been rewritten long ago so that the mistakes are not repeated. But, in case of religion, these principles are so enshrined in adoring veneration that not a single syllable can be modified without acquiring the terrible sin of blasphemy.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Religion and its influence in the US: The current Primary Challengers in the Grand Old Party.

Many of the Theists in India believe, mistakenly, that America is a Theist country, and therefore prosperous..

I disagree.

Yes, there is what's called the Bible Belt in the Old Confederate South...there are devout Evangelical Christians with some political influence.

But vast majority of Americans, since at least 1960s, are fast becoming Pragmatists.. for them religion is just a Cultural Link to the distant Past.

For most of them, Christmas is not a day for the Celebration of the Birth of Christ, but it is time of sharing joy and gifts at the end of the year - remembering Santa!

Most Churches lose members these days... number of people attending Sunday services is fast dwindling: in my own neighborhood church, most people attend the Civic Club Meetings there, than people coming for religious sermons and "masses" during Sundays and the Christmas day!

Consider this -

0. Barack Obama was for a short time an Atheist, drifting away from God and Religion - until he found Pastor Wright in a Church in South Side of Chicago, where he was a Community Organizer (after graduating from Columbia University).

1. Nick Halley, the current Governor of South Carolina was a born Sikh, then converted to Christianity.. S. Carolinians did not mind much about her conversion and the faiths of her parents etc. Remember, SC was a Confederate State!

2. Mitt Romney is a Mormon.. He is now the leading Presidential candidate from the Grand Old Party - the Republicans.. although some Christians are uncomfortable with him, most Card Carrying Members don't care about his religiosity.

3. Our Governor of TX, Rick Perry is a main stream Christian..although I want him to win the Primary Contest for a different reason (which I will write about later), he is lagging far behind Herman Cain and Mitt Romney in the polls now.

What I am trying to say is, in America God and Religion does not have a death-hold on the day to day life of most Americans..

America became prosperous (and a super power?) because of Science, Engineering & Technological advancement and hard work...some luck!

Not because of God & Religion!

Peace.