God Exists

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

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Belief in God

Sri Mahaganapathaye Namaha Sri Chandramouleeswaraya Namaha Sri Gurubyo Namaha
Sri Mathurakaligambikayai Namaha

Guru Brahma Gurur Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswaraha
Guru Sakshath Param Brahma Tasmai Sri Gurave Namaha
Sadasiva Samarambam Sankaracharya madyamam
Asmath Aacharya paryantham Vande Guru Parambaram
Guru Charanaravindapyam Nahama


I humbly submit a quote from "Sri Sri Bharathi Theertha Mahaswamigal's Bashanam".
Education, Wealth and Mental/Physical Courage are very important in human life.
People living in these fields are different levels i.e. high, middle and lower levels. Above
all these, Eshwar Bakthi is more important. If it is not there, human being may not be
able to avail of the fruits of the life to the fullest extent and what would ultimately remain
is only troubles and sorrows.

Mahaswamigal says that the above can be seen in many places. Bakthi can be felt and
made known to others by means of Bagavatsmaranam, Keerthanam, Worships of
God through Slokas, Pujas, etc. Great Wealth is Eshwar Bakthi. If one gets it, what else
the human being needs. God will look after them and bless them with everything. If a person
has no faith in Eshwar Bakthi, whatever may be his/her courage or strength (in all aspects),
sorrows and troubles may not go away. God remain as a Sakshi in all living beings. One who
does Karma, according to his capacity, certainly gets the benefit and fruits of life. We can
pray God in any Roopam, i.s Shape and surrender before Him/Her to seek the blessings, which
would lead them to a Happy Life.

Sarvasyapthyai Sarvasya Jithyai
Sarvameva Denapnothi Sarvam Jayathi

Balasubramanian
Ambattur Chennai

 

[renuka]

Sri Mahaganapathaye Namaha Sri Chandramouleeswaraya Namaha Sri Gurubyo Namaha
Sri Mathurakaligambikayai Namaha

Guru Brahma Gurur Vishnu Guru Devo Maheswaraha
Guru Sakshath Param Brahma Tasmai Sri Gurave Namaha
Sadasiva Samarambam Sankaracharya madyamam
Asmath Aacharya paryantham Vande Guru Parambaram
Guru Charanaravindapyam Nahama


I humbly submit a quote from "Sri Sri Bharathi Theertha Mahaswamigal's Bashanam".
Education, Wealth and Mental/Physical Courage are very important in human life.
People living in these fields are different levels i.e. high, middle and lower levels. Above
all these, Eshwar Bakthi is more important. If it is not there, human being may not be
able to avail of the fruits of the life to the fullest extent and what would ultimately remain
is only troubles and sorrows.

Mahaswamigal says that the above can be seen in many places. Bakthi can be felt and
made known to others by means of Bagavatsmaranam, Keerthanam, Worships of
God through Slokas, Pujas, etc. Great Wealth is Eshwar Bakthi. If one gets it, what else
the human being needs. God will look after them and bless them with everything. If a person
has no faith in Eshwar Bakthi, whatever may be his/her courage or strength (in all aspects),
sorrows and troubles may not go away. God remain as a Sakshi in all living beings. One who
does Karma, according to his capacity, certainly gets the benefit and fruits of life. We can
pray God in any Roopam, i.s Shape and surrender before Him/Her to seek the blessings, which
would lead them to a Happy Life.

Sarvasyapthyai Sarvasya Jithyai
Sarvameva Denapnothi Sarvam Jayathi

Balasubramanian
Ambattur Chennai

I hope you dont mind what I am going to say...Its a nice post sir but I feel may be its not in the thread that will be appreciated(forgive me if i am wrong)..
Believe me sir..after a while you will get the feeling of what Jesus said in the Bible Matthew 7.6.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

God belief

Thank U Madam.

Balasubramanian

 

[zebra16]

Oh well, I googled "atheists arrested" and got 6,420,000 hits. Does it prove anything? Nothing as far as I am concerned

 

[C RAVI]

Just because Shaastraas and even some vedic scriptures were manupulated by humans (either as per the prevailing society [may or may be with some valid reasons], or due to some ulterior motives) with their selfish motive and many blunty using such doctrines purly to benefit onself some way or due to ignorance, etc..etc. can not substantiate the claim that "GOD"/Sprirituality" does not exists.

As I told before, Humans are the most dangerous specious on this Planet. With their rational brain and highly powered Selfish Genes for the most better survival to one's fulfillment, can go to any extent and keep things upside down.

We can easily speculate that different religions came into existence with the clear purpose of assisting the whole population of humans to proceed towards "GOD" in different ways.

Humans are many who had and have manupulated and misused Religion, God, and Science to explore new potential business opportunities; terrorize, destroy and succeed in wars etc..

Many Humans with their supreme rational brain, psychology etc, tend to behave the way they could with what they have perceived and mislead, cheat and control others in the name of God and religion, claiming themselves as staunch Theist, doen't matter if they are scientists of any sort by their profession or not.


Scientist-Atheists are many who have resorted to usage of inventions for destructive purposes and have created havoc on this Earth, destroying the nature and humans to the horrid extent.

The below are some of the evidences to show how Sceintists-Atheists have misused the inventions that were all in fact for the better and positive cause.

This proves that Atheism with Scientific orientation can make otherwise good people to act badly and dangerously impacting the nature and humans to a larger extent.

5 Good Inventions that were used for bad purpose - Famouswhy

1[TD="width: 5"][/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3"] [TD="class: list_link list_page_bk_content_blue_description_celebrity"]Sir Marcus Laurence Elwin Oliphant had discovered that heavy hydrogen nuclei could be reacted with each other, creating a nuclear fusion. He had no idea that this discovery would be used later on to create hydrogen bomb by Edward Teller.

[TD="colspan: 3"] Nuclear Fusion [/TD]

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[TD="colspan: 3"] [TD="class: list_link list_page_bk_content_blue_description_celebrity"]Thomas Midgley was the brainchild behind the discoveries of CFC and leaded petrol. He stated that CFC Freon would be a safer refrigerant than ammonia. But, that was the very element which had caused extensive damage to the Ozone layer. Also, his idea of adding tetraethyl lead to petrol resulted in health issues across the world.

[TD="colspan: 3"] Leaded Petrol and CFC [/TD]

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[TD="colspan: 3"] [TD="class: list_link list_page_bk_content_blue_description_celebrity"]Wernher von Braun wanted to build rockets that could be used for astronomical purposes to overcome the earth’s gravitational pull and explore the space. But his invention was misused during the world wars to create rockets like the Nazi V2 in Germany and then the ICBM rockets in the US. As a result, many of us fail to remember that it was his invention, the Saturn V rockets, that helped human beings to reach the moon .

[TD="colspan: 3"] Rockets [/TD]

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[TD="colspan: 3"] [TD="class: list_link list_page_bk_content_blue_description_celebrity"]Joseph Wilbrand, a chemist from Germany, had discovered a yellow dye in 1863 which he called trinitrotoluene or TNT. About 40 years later, in 1902, TNT was discovered to have huge explosive potential. Since then, TNT has been used widely in the World Wars and is used even today in the military.

[TD="colspan: 3"] TNT [/TD]

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[TD="colspan: 3"] [TD="class: list_link list_page_bk_content_blue_description_celebrity"]Dr. Gerhard Schrader of Germany discovered a number of insecticides in order to provide good yield of food crops. But, two of his accidental discoveries – sarin and tabun – are widely used as nerve agents today.

[TD="colspan: 3"] Sarin Gas [/TD]

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Read more: 5 Good Inventions that were used for bad purpose - Famouswhy ​

 

[sangom]

Oh well, I googled "atheists arrested" and got 6,420,000 hits. Does it prove anything? Nothing as far as I am concerned

It will prove something if after going through some random sampling (if someone has the time and energy to go through each and every search result, that will be the best, of course) and find out whether these arrests were for criminal activities like issuing bogus cheques, molesting women a la kuchamardana swami, taking away valuables and cash in contravention of repeated court orders, etc.

 

[happyhindu]

The below are some of the evidences to show how Sceintists-Atheists have misused the inventions that were all in fact for the better and positive cause.

This proves that Atheism with Scientific orientation can make otherwise good people to act badly and dangerously impacting the nature and humans to a larger extent.

5 Good Inventions that were used for bad purpose - Famouswhy

1
Nuclear Fusion
Sir Marcus Laurence Elwin Oliphant had discovered that heavy hydrogen nuclei could be reacted with each other, creating a nuclear fusion. He had no idea that this discovery would be used later on to create hydrogen bomb by Edward Teller.

2
Leaded Petrol and CFC

Thomas Midgley was the brainchild behind the discoveries of CFC and leaded petrol. He stated that CFC Freon would be a safer refrigerant than ammonia. But, that was the very element which had caused extensive damage to the Ozone layer. Also, his idea of adding tetraethyl lead to petrol resulted in health issues across the world.

3
Rockets
Wernher von Braun wanted to build rockets that could be used for astronomical purposes to overcome the earth’s gravitational pull and explore the space. But his invention was misused during the world wars to create rockets like the Nazi V2 in Germany and then the ICBM rockets in the US. As a result, many of us fail to remember that it was his invention, the Saturn V rockets, that helped human beings to reach the moon.

4
TNT
Joseph Wilbrand, a chemist from Germany, had discovered a yellow dye in 1863 which he called trinitrotoluene or TNT. About 40 years later, in 1902, TNT was discovered to have huge explosive potential. Since then, TNT has been used widely in the World Wars and is used even today in the military.


5
Sarin Gas
Dr. Gerhard Schrader of Germany discovered a number of insecticides in order to provide good yield of food crops. But, two of his accidental discoveries – sarin and tabun – are widely used as nerve agents today.
​

Pray, tell me, which of these inventions were by atheist-scientists? Which of these inventions were misused by atheist-scientists?

How does the given 5 examples prove that "Atheism with Scientific orientation can make otherwise good people to act badly and dangerously impacting the nature and humans to a larger extent".

??????

 

[happyhindu]

Oh well, I googled "atheists arrested" and got 6,420,000 hits. Does it prove anything? Nothing as far as I am concerned

Are you saying only atheists get arrested? Or do you mean theists never get arrested?

I know of staunch theists involving in bribery, adultery, getting drunk and sozzled by late evening but behaving very religious during daytime, etc. On what basis can anyone claim that theism somehow makes a man good?

 

[zebra16]

Are you saying only atheists get arrested? Or do you mean theists never get arrested?

Neither

I know of staunch theists involving in bribery, adultery, getting drunk and sozzled by late evening but behaving very religious during daytime, etc. On what basis can anyone claim that theism somehow makes a man good?

You are talking tangentially. The issue on hand is the contention by some posters that theism induces people to behave immorally. My contention is the links provided by Sri Sangom is no proof

 

[happyhindu]

Neither



You are talking tangentially. The issue on hand is the contention by some posters that theism induces people to behave immorally. My contention is the links provided by Sri Sangom is no proof

Ah ok, was away from the forum for a couple of weeks, have not read posts on this thread for about two weeks, so had no idea about the contention part...does theism induce people to behave immorally?? i should say people design their religion and vice-versa, so immoral people could be theists, atheists, or anything they please...

 

[zebra16]

My argument is, it is following certain hoary and revered principles of religion that result in an otherwise loving person act badly. I have given many examples.

What examples are you referring to, Sri Nara? Can you please give msg nos. etc.? My response pertained to the irrelevancy of google hits of "Swamiji arrested" to the issue of whether theism induces one to be more immoral.

Regards

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear ravi !
by reading your article and others,it is proved that good presentation &well supported incidence (either good or bad ) will carryaway normal persons who listen to others to take the extrem step.
anything will give pleasure if it is carried for his /her own enlightment without affecting others interest.
bakthi is to be practised without any expectation .but in present daylsituation everything is performed with some expectation.

 

[Nara]

What examples are you referring to, Sri Nara? Can you please give msg nos. etc.?

Narayan, have you not been following the posts? They are all there in this very thread and you can go back and read them all, but you want me to do the searching for you . Anyway, start here and read all my posts from then on, you will see what I am arguing about and all the examples to support my view.

My response pertained to the irrelevancy of google hits of "Swamiji arrested" to the issue of whether theism induces one to be more immoral.

I understand what you are trying to point out, and that is not entirely without merit. But there is a significant difference. Sangom sir did not simply cite the number of hits as proof positive, he cited several examples from those hits.

Further, the point is, these frauds are acharyas and gurujis, not some run of the mill bhakta. Some of these Godmen somehow remain no less godly even after their frauds are exposed, they live on even after they are dead and gone. This is one of the pernicious aspects of theism, it makes even highly educated people, engineers, doctors, lawyers, and even some scientists, fall at the feet of these frauds which encourages them to continue their fraud.

It is this theistic mindset that makes people embrace religion with all its good and bad parts alike, the theism robs them of their ability to discriminate between the good and the bad, the bad is seen as good as well in the grand design.

Narayan, it is easy to make a one-line statement, but presenting a cogent argument takes time and effort. Please try it, I know you can and I promise you, it is lot of fun.

Cheers!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ref.1542 by Sangom

Sangom sir,
படிப்பறிவு இல்லாத, வேல வெட்டி இல்லாத சோம்பேறிகள் அடிக்கற கூத்தோட பழிய religion மேல போடுறது என்ன சார் நியாயம்?


Ref post 1545 by Nara:
Naraji,
You mentioned, "I know a Vadama convert to SV". What "conversion" is this? Funny. Btw, talking of personal attacks, you are aware of the personal attack on me in the thread, "Muslims in India". And you were a (slient) spectator. I have the courage to come out open and criticise (people of my ideology) for what I think is wrong. Perhaps, my faith in religion and God has given me that courage??:eyebrows:

 

[ShivKC]

Pray, tell me, which of these inventions were by atheist-scientists? Which of these inventions were misused by atheist-scientists?

How does the given 5 examples prove that "Atheism with Scientific orientation can make otherwise good people to act badly and dangerously impacting the nature and humans to a larger extent".

??????

there is a problem here with the understanding.

ravi was trying to correlate the statement, how in some cases religion has made otherwise good people bad .. here he related, how in some cases scientific inventions which are supposed to be good for the the mankind had turned out to be bad.

the jist is not about who invented it

 

[Nara]

... Btw, talking of personal attacks, you are aware of the personal attack on me in the thread, "Muslims in India". And you were a (slient) spectator.

Siva, I abhor and condemn personal attacks, personal insults, etc., whatever the source may be, whoever the victim may be. I am not aware of what you are citing, I will take a look, but if you have the link to the post handy please furnish it.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Ref.1542 by Sangom

Sangom sir,
படிப்பறிவு இல்லாத, வேல வெட்டி இல்லாத சோம்பேறிகள் அடிக்கற கூத்தோட பழிய religion மேல போடுறது என்ன சார் நியாயம்?

Shri Siva,

The very fact that these படிப்பறிவு இல்லாத, வேல வெட்டி இல்லாத சோம்பேறிகள் (I do not agree, however, that all these swamijis are illiterate, but definitely they are intelligent enough to chose some very promising vocations in which they probably excel.) chose the religious line is, imho, proof of the fact that they felt religion would be the best avenue of fooling people and making money. Why?, because religion is, in its core, a certain type of indoctrination - of the mind and intellect also - with the result that many people then tend to be "mere believers" and as their religiosity increases, the belief turns into bigotry, fanaticism, etc. (The reactions of many theist members here in this forum will reveal to you that they try to show their religiosity by badmouthing the opponents instead of countering atheism by logic.)

A good number of educated and otherwise rational-minded people get completely brainwashed by religion and may even take resort to swamijis, talismans, havans & homams and many such things and eventually to black-magic when their zeal for getting the things desired reaches its zenith. The evils like human sacrifice may be the extreme of such phenomenon but there are very many evils in the in-between stages too. It is this sort of "gullible belief" which is the darker side of religion and which is very conveniently brushed aside in many discussions. That is really sad, imo, and the பழி for the many evils caused by the religious gullibility has definitely to be placed on religion and nowhere else.

 

[Yamaka]

there is a problem here with the understanding.

ravi was trying to correlate the statement, how in some cases religion has made otherwise good people bad .. here he related, how in some cases scientific inventions which are supposed to be good for the the mankind had turned out to be bad.

the jist is not about who invented it

I see a world of difference here -

I fully agree with the statement that Nara made... how many killings and harassment going on in the name of "IC, IR marriages" which relate directly to the belief in religion and God of the perpetrators involved!

How many millions of people are locked inside the Gates of Hell of Poverty because of the Faith in Gods!

What Ravi cites is the unintended consequences of an earlier invention or discovery, which later was used for a quite different purpose.

The former is the DIRECT consequence of "Religion and Gods" and the latter is NOT.

 

[Yamaka]

"I have the courage to come out open and criticise (people of my ideology) for what I think is wrong. Perhaps, my faith in religion and God has given me that courage??" -post 1564.

Where exactly is this courage shown?

If you have shown this courage, that's is part of your FREE WILL - not the destiny / kismet pre-ordained by any GOD of any organized Religion!

That has been the crux of the issue in this Thread!

If you don't agree, then prove it that your courage was because of your Ishta Deva - your GOD!

You should not turn around and ask me to disprove it! For, I already have taken a NEGATIVE stand, by definition a negative can't be proven logically.

 

[C RAVI]

What Ravi cites is the unintended consequences of an earlier invention or discovery, which later was used for a quite different purpose.

The former is the DIRECT consequence of "Religion and Gods" and the latter is NOT.

Shri Yamaka,

God/Supreme power is the truth and religions emerged with messengers of GOD as the manifestation of GOD himself. We may not be able to prove clearly as what was the purpose of extablishing different religons, in different parts of the word and in different time period. No religion teaches bad, wrong and ridiculous philosophies/ principles/values.

It is the very humans who tend to play with all these devine philosophies/principles/values with their funny tricks, severe destructing ideas, selfish strategies etc to gain some thing some way, from the time immemorial.

The later is the truth and the former is adultrated. Still, the truth remains intact as truth, doesn't matter how effectively its been tampered with, ignored, rediculed and considered as garbage.


Similarly many of the scientific explorations took place with the very motive of betterment of mankind. Nature's intellegence were recognised, Natural resources were taped and things/energies were invented for a better cause. All with brilliant sceintific brain.

With the same brilliant scientific brains, the invented things/energies were further manupulated for ulterior motive of money making, being unmindful of its hazardeous impacts and to threaten and destruct fellow humans, that is causing destructions to the same Nature itself, the resources of which humans used to explore and better the survival. This is what I presented in my previous post.

The former is pure and healthy and the later is adultrated and devastating.

Both GOD/Spirituality AND Science is creating negative consequences some or other way, from its purest forms.

Humans are the products of GOD and Science is the product of Humans. The same humans manupulate anything for any purpose.

 

[ShivKC]

(NARA to Nacchinarkinyan) """So, what is so great about those who are on the "other" side that makes them தொட்டா சிணுங்கி? Why can't they take some lumps we on this side routinely take. They may talk to Praveen by PM and get things sorted out, why not? I have dealt with Praveen by PM and I find him reasonable to the extent you are willing to be. If you let your ego come in the way, -- that is your prerogative -- then it will be difficult. But then, face up to it, don't invent pseudo reasons like anti-brahmin and anti-hindu, these are just சால் ஜாப்பு like KB says, it fits here not where KB uses it"""
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/religion/7331-devi-mahatmyam-4.html



looks like, the rule of law is getting changed. attacking a community is comfortably ok, but its forbidden to attack a person!!! as per this self proclaimed amended code of conduct, calling one as தொட்டா சிணுங்கி ,சால் ஜாப்பு seems to be an accepptable norm off late, including the 'middle finger'

but when another tries it, there comes a bucket full of crocodile tears!

 

[sangom]

Shri Yamaka,

God/Supreme power is the truth and religions emerged with messengers of GOD as the manifestation of GOD himself. We may not be able to prove clearly as what was the purpose of extablishing different religons, in different parts of the word and in different time period. No religion teaches bad, wrong and ridiculous philosophies/ principles/values.

It is the very humans who tend to play with all these devine philosophies/principles/values with their funny tricks, severe destructing ideas, selfish strategies etc to gain some thing some way, from the time immemorial.

The later is the truth and the former is adultrated. Still, the truth remains intact as truth, doesn't matter how effectively its been tampered with, ignored, rediculed and considered as garbage.


Similarly many of the scientific explorations took place with the very motive of betterment of mankind. Nature's intellegence were recognised, Natural resources were taped and things/energies were invented for a better cause. All with brilliant sceintific brain.

With the same brilliant scientific brains, the invented things/energies were further manupulated for ulterior motive of money making, being unmindful of its hazardeous impacts and to threaten and destruct fellow humans, that is causing destructions to the same Nature itself, the resources of which humans used to explore and better the survival. This is what I presented in my previous post.

The former is pure and healthy and the later is adultrated and devastating.

Both GOD/Spirituality AND Science is creating negative consequences some or other way, from its purest forms.

Humans are the products of GOD and Science is the product of Humans. The same humans manupulate anything for any purpose.

Somehow the words brahmāstra, nāgāstra, āgneyāstra, varuṇāstra, nāgapāśa, and many more, come to my memory.! Strange

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Shri Siva,

The very fact that these படிப்பறிவு இல்லாத, வேல வெட்டி இல்லாத சோம்பேறிகள் (I do not agree, however, that all these swamijis are illiterate, but definitely they are intelligent enough to chose some very promising vocations in which they probably excel.) chose the religious line is, imho, proof of the fact that they felt religion would be the best avenue of fooling people and making money. Why?, because religion is, in its core, a certain type of indoctrination - of the mind and intellect also - with the result that many people then tend to be "mere believers" and as their religiosity increases, the belief turns into bigotry, fanaticism, etc. (The reactions of many theist members here in this forum will reveal to you that they try to show their religiosity by badmouthing the opponents instead of countering atheism by logic.)

A good number of educated and otherwise rational-minded people get completely brainwashed by religion and may even take resort to swamijis, talismans, havans & homams and many such things and eventually to black-magic when their zeal for getting the things desired reaches its zenith. The evils like human sacrifice may be the extreme of such phenomenon but there are very many evils in the in-between stages too. It is this sort of "gullible belief" which is the darker side of religion and which is very conveniently brushed aside in many discussions. That is really sad, imo, and the பழி for the many evils caused by the religious gullibility has definitely to be placed on religion and nowhere else.

Sir,

With due respect to you, I want to submit that some of your comments are biased and untrue. To say "The reactions of many theist members here in this forum will reveal to you that they try to show their religiosity by badmouthing the opponents instead of countering atheism by logic" is objectionable. They do not badmouth and if by any chance anyone does so, it is not because of their religious affinity. Anyone would get irritated by repeated வறட்டு வாதம் which is often முரட்டு வாதம். Are you not seeing provoking and teasing posts from atheists? Theists have no hidden agenda and so they put forth their views without any colour. Sarcacism is the language of athiests no matter how they package it.

Christianity says, "Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"
"Islam" means "to surrender"
Hinduism teaches karma
Buddhism teaches ahimsa

On the contrary, atheism is barbaric, impractical, egoistic, haughty, and what not.

Let us stop the nonsence saying that we have "proved with examples" that "faith in religion/God makes otherwise good people to be bad". It just shows the insensivity to the feelings of the majority of the people, who in their own way are pious and are good if not noble. There is no need for them to prove their nobility to people who accuse their reverent religion/God. The act of athiests is either ignorance (of the eternal truth) or sheer arrogance.

I object to your using my phrase (படிப்பறிவு இல்லாத, வேல வெட்டி இல்லாத சோம்பேறிகள்) to Swamijis. "Religious gullibility" is not the mistake of religion. If some people are "clever" to use "avenues of folling people" on religious lines, it is because they are born scoundrels. I am sure you are aware of true religious swamijis like Adi Sankaracharya or Swami Vivekananda who have spent their life time in channelising the minds of people into noble things. Unfortunately, that would be labeled as "Brahminical supermacism" in case of AS and something else for SV. The media can only highlight bad things. So, an ordinary person would know Nithyananda and Premananda but a person of your calibre would sure know of the vast majority of people who have used religion for the betterment of the society at large. But you chose to take the other side.

ஒரு பீஷ்மர் தவறான side ல இருந்தது போதும் sir. நீங்க போகாதீங்கோ

 

[Yamaka]

Shri Yamaka,

God/Supreme power is the truth and religions emerged with messengers of GOD as the manifestation of GOD himself. We may not be able to prove clearly as what was the purpose of extablishing different religons, in different parts of the word and in different time period. No religion teaches bad, wrong and ridiculous philosophies/ principles/values.

It is the very humans who tend to play with all these devine philosophies/principles/values with their funny tricks, severe destructing ideas, selfish strategies etc to gain some thing some way, from the time immemorial.

The later is the truth and the former is adultrated. Still, the truth remains intact as truth, doesn't matter how effectively its been tampered with, ignored, rediculed and considered as garbage.


Similarly many of the scientific explorations took place with the very motive of betterment of mankind. Nature's intellegence were recognised, Natural resources were taped and things/energies were invented for a better cause. All with brilliant sceintific brain.

With the same brilliant scientific brains, the invented things/energies were further manupulated for ulterior motive of money making, being unmindful of its hazardeous impacts and to threaten and destruct fellow humans, that is causing destructions to the same Nature itself, the resources of which humans used to explore and better the survival. This is what I presented in my previous post.

The former is pure and healthy and the later is adultrated and devastating.

Both GOD/Spirituality AND Science is creating negative consequences some or other way, from its purest forms.

Humans are the products of GOD and Science is the product of Humans. The same humans manupulate anything for any purpose.

The last para "Humans are the products of God" is what I and others contest here... and we ask you to prove it.

You say "I may not be able to prove it". Fine..

Now let me clarify my position..

By definition, God is a Super-Natural Agent, most probably in the form of a human being (that's what Abrahamic religions and Puronic religions claim) standing somewhere in the Universe and controls ALL activities of living being, including human beings, and inanimate objects.

This definition is good for ALL religions.

In addition, Hinduism propounds the Janma Poorva Karma ALSO.

When you combine all the above, you get FATALISM... no room for FREEWILL.

I charge that this Belief in FATALISM is the root cause of backwardness in India and elsewhere..

I say that FATALISM is patently wrong and non-existent, and only FREEWILL is true and existing..

Therefore, I tell all those "800 million people in abject poverty in India" to shed this Belief in Fatalism and take charge of their lives by their FREEWILL and Hard Work.

Theists here are dancing around FATALISM... why?

 

[Yamaka]

"On the contrary, atheism is barbaric, impractical, egoistic, haughty, and what not." post 1573

Very wrong and inflammatory...

Maybe, that's what your GOD asked you to write under SanAtana Dharma!

Enjoy your God's Will...