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God Exists

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Signing of Cheques

Mr Sarang

You are correct. But one point came up some time back regarding using of
certain inks. Because, certain inks used to write details, can be erased or
removed by dipping it in a solvent or paint remover - turpentine or like
acetone. As this will give loophole to the fraudster, precautions have been'
taken. A cheque if dipped in a solvent, it discolors the cheque. To be
precise, we can use water proof ink. Some say, black or navy blue can be
used. But we should not use facsimile signatures.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
My son asked me a question yesterday that made me wonder..he said since God existed from the begining itself how does He come down in human form as an Avatar becos when He(God) is already self created and already present from time immemorial He should not be able to "recreate" Himself becos how can you create something which is already present?
What is the process that makes God be able to come down as an Avatar?

This question set me thinking cos I was wondering what the answer could be.

So happen the very next few hours later I was reading Khandana Bhava Bandhana Stotram by chance and came across the commentary there which stated that the Nature of Brahman, The Absolute is Cit or Pure Consciouness.

The Brahman cannot by itself incarnate as a human being without being associated with Its power of Maya.
When Brahman thus assumes the human form called Avatara or incarnation in association with its Maya power it is said to become "ghana" or "solidified".

Since the original nature of Cit is always there the Avatara is Cid-Ghana Kaay..solidified consciousness incarnate.

It was an interesting point that I wanted to share with everyone and also get feedback.
 
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Really an interesting question raised by him. He should be patted for his intelligence.
Since we live in a Universe of cause and effect, created by HIM, we have to naturally
assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. God has
absolutely no need of being created. It is an ocean. To sum up, God exists in more
than one dimension of time. It is said that God manifests himself upon this earth as
an incarnated being to enlighten us and gave an opportunity in multifarious Avatars
to feel his divine presence.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
He also asked me that science talks about the theory of the Big Bang but that only explains about the formation of earth and the planets but space had existed before the Big Bang occured.

Does science has an explanation how space was created?

So I told him right now only religion explains the formation of space from its basic element Akasa.
I have no idea if science has an explanation on the origin of space prior to the Big Bang.

P.S..I am sharing what my son asks me becos I would like answers and also to set our minds thinking with questions children these days ask us.
 
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My son asked me a question yesterday that made me wonder..he said since God existed from the begining itself how does He come down in human form as an Avatar becos when He(God) is already self created and already present from time immemorial He should not be able to "recreate" Himself becos how can you create something which is already present?
What is the process that makes God be able to come down as an Avatar?

This question set me thinking cos I was wondering what the answer could be.

So happen the very next few hours later I was reading Khandana Bhava Bandhana Stotram by chance and came across the commentary there which stated that the Nature of Brahman, The Absolute is Cit or Pure Consciouness.

The Brahman cannot by itself incarnate as a human being without being associated with Its power of Maya.
When Brahman thus assumes the human form called Avatara or incarnation in association with its Maya power it is said to become "ghana" or "solidified".

Since the original nature of Cit is always there the Avatara is Cid-Ghana Kaay..solidified consciousness incarnate.

It was an interesting point that I wanted to share with everyone and also get feedback.
Smt. Renuka,Maayaa is something which is a thorn in the flesh of advaita philosophy. As per Sankara, maaya is coeval with and coexistent with Brahman and Brahman itself has no control over maayaa. The jeeva is, nevertheless, capable of breaking out of the maayaic cover during its sojourn as human, and attain brahma jnaana or realization of the unpolluted brahman stage.In such conditions, it will be difficult to explain the concept of avataara in advaitic terms. I don't know about the khandana stotram, its author or the commentary. Pl. let me know if those can be accessed in the web.
 
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dear renuka 1
very reasonable questions and it reminds me my child hood. we were worrying too much after hearing so many moral stories.as years passes ,we have compromised and started thinking about our lively hood in the world but we are keeping in mind that GOD exists and he will give the cooli(wage) to our deeds. our motto is
even if you are not helpful to others ,at least let us not be trouble to others.
try to think of emptiness, it will lead to long head ache .beyond a limit we can not imagine the empty space. Mayam is the cause for not able to realize the GOD
guruvayurappan
 
He also asked me that science talks about the theory of the Big Bang but that only explains about the formation of earth and the planets but space had existed before the Big Bang occured.

Does science has an explanation how space was created?

.

doc, science has explained them in better way already,and its continuously exploring things beyond big bang and may achieve it too in the future. there is a possibility, in future, science could also prove that few more big bangs exited before the one which we know.. thats not the point to be worried and take up a fight with science.

out here, the issue is time-space, which was defined well bygreek philosophers 2 millenia ago, and off late proved by einstein.

do space/time exist beyond big bang? the interesting point here is, science and all its basic fundamental units like MLT (mass, length, time) go invalid, where there is no time T, or space L. this how god is 'defined', and atheist claim that as 'gods hide-out'.

here is the definition of 'God is beyond space and time' holds good and convincing, and that definition wont clash with science.

may be, if you curious to know the philosophical part of 'TIME', pls go through this interesting wiki page.. i bet, it would be totally new and enriching to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_space_and_time
 
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i have been out of town a few days, and could only intermittently access the website.

so what happened?

God wins?

Yamaka, Happy Hindu and (maybe) Nara are no longer here?

as a proud one of hindu heritage, personally, i could accommodate their views, and never felt my faith or practices threatened. the world is a large place, and when we have difference within the nuclear family, it is but natural, that many of us, with various experiences of life, come to differ.

Y, HH N - their journeys in life have been different, and HH, N have a knowledge of hinduism, that i could only envy. these two have not only learned more, but learned them well, to come to a stage, to comfortably look critically at our heritage, and call 'a spade a spade'. this is not for arguement purposes that i write this, but my opinion. and my opinion will stay.

i am once again reminded of a uncivil civil society ..

The ability to posture first and postulate later, to shout first and hear later, to be rhetorical always and rational never. This is the new omniscient mutant Indian adult.


our-uncivil-civil-society/

whom am i to point fingers? for i am as guilty, as any member here for being one of the noisy thugs. and these are on both sides.

but sufficiently hard slaps to throw one group out, should distress anyone who has the interests of the forum. after all these were not the jamadagneya types who threatened on members here. these have contributed more than many who had railed against them.

i may be expecting much, but what would be nice, is the group that remains 'winners', to extend a friendly hand, in the best of a tradition initiated by voltaire, I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

personally, godless folks, i think are a boon to us believer - for two reasons; it helps us to sharpen up our own faith and keeps us on our toes, and provide counter arguements; secondly, and this i think is crucial to our future hinduism - becoming more broad based and egalitarian in both outlook and practice - for that is the world of today and tomorrow.

we are now a flat society, where the ancestral scavenger's son/daughter may be treating us in our death bed, and that is the most wonderful thing that could happen to hindus and india. atleast i think so.

for without an opposition, we would become a mutual admiration society, a tone, that is already present here in this thread the past couple of days.

fire and brimstone, hey, that's what makes us an interesting forum i think.

and finally, this is not to cast aspiration on KRS, but more something i was reminded and was pointed out, and maybe a reason why i was kicked out of my brief practice of this forum moderation ie moderator also becoming a participant. i think the example brought out, was how can the judge be also an advocate for the prosecution or defence at the same time. the forum is a tempting morsel, and is difficult to take munch or two, if one gets interested in a topic, and i think, it is difficult to hold onceself back and plunge in. moderation is a pov of the moderator, and my pov when i was a moderator was not acceptable to many, and i had no problems stepping down. again i wish to reiterate, these are in no way reflecting on KRS, but only my own experiences.

the remaining all of us, can keep our chin up, and proclaim, it is 'business as usual' and the forum does not depend on one single person or group. but the web is littered with forums, when some interesting members have left...as we know from our own group of deserters here, and who have now returned.

to sum up, if we consider God exists and is declared a winner, i would consider the victory pyrrhic. at what cost God has to win? does He/She cares?

thank you.
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

No one is thrown out. No one is barred. But even the most brilliant members of this Forum need to abide by the rules. And Moderation was not done (both by me and Sri Praveen) on anyone saying anything based on any theistic or non theistic philosophy. And of course if folks see anything wrong with Moderation, there is a very easy escalation path to Sri Praveen.

If you would like to know about the situation, please contact Sri Praveen.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

No one is thrown out. No one is barred. But even the most brilliant members of this Forum need to abide by the rules. And Moderation was not done (both by me and Sri Praveen) on anyone saying anything based on any theistic or non theistic philosophy. And of course if folks see anything wrong with Moderation, there is a very easy escalation path to Sri Praveen.

If you would like to know about the situation, please contact Sri Praveen.

Regards,
KRS

dear KRS,

thank you for your kind reply. i see no reason to contact praveen or question the moderation by you or praveen.

thanks again.
 
Dear Kunjs,

You wrote :
the remaining all of us, can keep our chin up, and proclaim, it is 'business as usual' and the forum does not depend on one single person or group. but the web is littered with forums, when some interesting members have left...as we know from our own group of deserters here, and who have now returned.

to sum up, if we consider God exists and is declared a winner, i would consider the victory pyrrhic. at what cost God has to win? does He/She cares?

thank you.

None of us like to see any member leave cos each one of us is unique and most of us also welcome a debate becos it will help the mind to explore in different an angles.

Most of us have been thru situations here where we left after not being too happy for what ever reason...even I had done that before but somehow I came back cos its fun here actually and mentally stimulating.

I cant speak for NN,HH and Yamaka but I am sure they will be actively participating soon.

Last but not least you also wrote
:i may be expecting much, but what would be nice, is the group that remains 'winners', to extend a friendly hand, in the best of a tradition initiated by voltaire, I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Kunjs..who are the "winners" ?
In a debate there are actually no winners its just like a two sides of a coin..you need both sides to add value.
The fact remains that no Theist can prove to Atheists that God exists and no Atheist can prove to Theists that God doesnt exists.
So I guess there are no "winners".

regards,
renu
 
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Smt. Renuka,Maayaa is something which is a thorn in the flesh of advaita philosophy. As per Sankara, maaya is coeval with and coexistent with Brahman and Brahman itself has no control over maayaa. The jeeva is, nevertheless, capable of breaking out of the maayaic cover during its sojourn as human, and attain brahma jnaana or realization of the unpolluted brahman stage.In such conditions, it will be difficult to explain the concept of avataara in advaitic terms. I don't know about the khandana stotram, its author or the commentary. Pl. let me know if those can be accessed in the web.

Dear Sangom,

Khandana Bhava Bhandana Stotram was written by Swami Vivekananda and the commentary in the book I am reading is by Swami Harshananda of the Ramakrishna Mission Order.

I got this link for you online..but this doesnt have the commentary of Swami Harshananda.

http://www.rkmissiondel.org/RKM-Aarti/Arati.pdf
 
I do not have much knowledge in Bag Bang theory. But I have read about it.
It is nothing but a study of space science otherwise called cosmology; which
explains the physical origin of the Universe within it, why we are also within
that only. Rather it is purely an attempt to elucidate as to what had occurred
at the very commencement of our Universe. If we start debating on it, it
would be rather incomplete without raising a query again, what about God.
The subsequent question arises in our mind, was there any study similar to the
one above on the origin of the Universe, etc. History clearly says that the
creation was a supernatural event. Discussing the metaphysics etc will lead to
different angles.

A simple reason to quote : If a person opposes to even the existence of a God
or possibility of his existence, it is like some one refusing to trust or believe the
fact that people had walked in front of our eyes on the moon. If God's existence,
is questioned, I would like to put it, how earth exists, how do we get water,
how human brain formed and how it functions, how we are able to see through
our eyes, how our human structure formed, etc. etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
Dear Sri Balasubramanian Sir,

Atheists don't deny a 'Super Natural' entity. They do not believe that entity has a 'nature' or 'qualities' as ascribed by theists.

That is the difference. In my opinion both beliefs are based on faith, as no one with sensory perceptions only knows for sure.

So, it actually comes down to a person's composite makeup of temperament, view of the physical world and most importantly views about religions as either positive or negative to become either an atheist or a theist (including agnostics). The former has always been and will always remain a minority camp.

Regards,
KRS
 
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Taken from Sathya Sai Speaks:

The body of the Avatar is chit substance; it is not jada like other materials. The embryo of ordinary mortals is 'jalodakasayi' enveloped in watery stuff; the embryo of the Avatar is encased in 'Kshirodakasayi', the pure white milk of holiness. That is why in the make-up of the Avatar, there is no blemish, there is no trace of Guna.
 
We all look at the physical universe, human nature and culture. We also observe
things practically in our life. These could be concluded are the real clues to the
existence or supernatural nature. If there is no God, there are no objectives,
moral values. There are moral values which are objective. Hence God exists.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
on-the-rule-of-the-road

Re the role of moderation in the ensuing silence of some of our honourable members, I am but forced to think back to my high school days.

The link is to a classic essay, by a.g.gardiner, titled, ‘on the rule of the road’, and was presented to us, by my inimitable English teacher, Mr. D.O.Perry (God Bless his soul).

This is a very small, but classic essay, on the limits of exercising our liberties, to the detriment of impinging on someone else liberty.

Please enjoy it for what it is worth, but maybe a timely reminder, for everyone, that while no one likes moderation, it may be needed, for proper functioning of this forum.

And the right attitude, in my opinion, is, if you get pulled up, don’t take it personally, but dust it off like Teflon, and prep yourself again, for another admonishment.

Enjoy the ride here, as my friend renus would wont to say, though it might get bumpy at times, till your stop arrives.

Thank you.

ps..if you do not want to read the essay, here are my favourite quotes for your (dis)pelasure anyway :)

There is a danger of the world getting liberty-drunk in these days ... and it is just as well to remind ourselves of what the rule of the road means. It means that in order that the liberties of all may be preserved, the liberties of everybody must be curtailed.

Liberty is not a personal affair only, but a social contract. It is an accommodation of interests. In matters which do not touch anybody else’s liberty, of course,

A reasonable consideration for the rights or feelings of others is the foundation of social conduct.

It is in the small matters of conduct, in the observance of the rule of the road, that we pass judgment upon ourselves, and declare that we are civilized or uncivilized. The great moments of heroism and sacrifice are rare. It is the little habits of commonplace intercourse that make up the great sum of life and sweeten or make bitter the journey
.
 
I haven't read the essay but from the quotes it does sound very pragmatic. Freedom in the true sense of the word never exists as i always suspected. Its all an illusion. I guess one has to be thankful for "small small" freedoms (mercies) at least! What a depressing thought :(
 
Skanda Purana is the largest and a very big one in Puranas, to describe our ancient times.
It consists of 88,100 Stanzas with around Seven Parts. It deals with mainly about
Maheswara, Vaishnava, Brahma, Kashi, Avanti, Nagar, Prabhasa or so. This Purana is
named after the Lord Shiva's son Karthikeya (Skandan), who was also the Commander
of the God's Army and had killed the Demon Tarakasura, according to the age old Puranas.
It begins with a Salutation to Lord Shiva, who assigned job of creation to Lord Brahma,
who has instructed Lord Vishnu to nurture the entire world and who himself acts as the
annihilator (destruction). It appears the major Yagnya was conducted at Naimisaranyam
forest. This is a very famous place. It comes within the 108 Divyadesams. Sage Shaunak
was the chief to conduct that with a Sangamam of Sages. Shri Velukudi Krishnan
delivers many divine lectures on Skanda Puranas.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
You can ask a question to yourself to the origin, "How can I exist without a creator".
The wheel (small or long hands of a Clock) will go on turning backwards without an end
to it. You will get some query and an answer in you that some Great Super Power is
behind the creation of this Universe and living beings, man, animals and even
super-clusters of galaxies, etc in it.

The Sun is using up its fuel at millions of tons each second, since its commencement
or origin by the Great Super Power, if God's power is not there, can it lost for ever.
If it has to be recharged like battery, how long will it lost. If this is accepted, where
does your technologies go i.e. without HIS creation of human brain. Do Computers, Space
Shuttles, etc will work without being attended to. Are we attending to the Sun or
Moon (Amavasya or Pournamasya changes), Can we dictate the terms to the Stars
to move from its place to another direction.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur
 
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