God Exists

[guruvayurappan]

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dear ravi !
you are correct . all can not be mahatma. mahatma birth is limited and we have to follow their saying which is given for our benefit. if we were to learn everything on our own ,we can not achieve it in our life time.prahalatha and hiranyakasibu both are in our atma. with GOD prayer shown by prahalatha we are getting rid of hiranyakasibu mind setup
guruvayurappan

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

There is saying that one can fool all the persons some of the time and some of the people
all the time but one cannot fool all the persons all the time. A clarity in mind is required to
accept that there is a Supreme Power which controls the Universe all the time. If we fail
to recognise or understand HIS Avatars and Purpose on this earth from our age old ancient
revered Scriptures, where overwhelming evidences are available for HIS existence, our
constant thinking, our undisturbed focus on HIM will certainly one day or the other indicate
the profound realities of GOD over the years that the eternal values never change. We are
born, we grow and why we die. Why not we live continuously with the latest scientific and
medical advancements with no death approaching us?

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi sir,

I think yours is an 'escapist' explanation. I do not find, first of all, as to why there is any difference between the aatma of prahlaada or any one of us. I am also not saying that we should exhibit our trust in god by standing in the middle of a highway. But beyond such actions, do we, really, really trust in god at all points of time? Especially when something very adverse happens, like, for example your newly purchased flat crumbles down due to defective materials, or your new car gets into a very serious accident injuring or killing the occupants, or things so serious as that? I honestly feel "no"; we usually grieve and blame god, at least for some time. All our bhakthi is only like fair-weather friendship and nobody wants a god who tests, a god who makes you suffer. So, are we not laying down conditions subject to which only our bhakthi and pooja etc., will be there? Of course, you can continue to justify these also on the basis of your diffent sorta atmas theory, but will that not mean you are creating a new religion?

Shri Sarma,

Different sorta Atma does not lead to the creation of new Religion. In this Maya Bhoo Longam, Lord Rama was an incarnation and lead a life of Manava, undergoing all suffering from his parents, rakshasas, asuras and Ravana.

Do you feel the soul of Sri Rama and we ordinary souls are the same?

The above is just an example. There were many such souls including Adi Shankarar who survived on the same bhoo logam with full of maya and did his duty as possible to his mother whom he left stranded.

I dont understand how you could not figure out such differnt sorta atmas and consider this as my own fantasy theory?


If our flat/building colapses, if our CAR get crushed in accident, if our jwellery stollen, some humans may start scolding GOD and call him cruel. That is how, I think most of the humans start hating and cursing GOD. This is nothing but purely our IGNORANCE, AANGAARAM, AATHRAM.

The simple thing is all good and bad events happens at the time it has to happen as per our destiney. Lose and gains in specific manner happens as how we are destined to experience as per our KARMA.

Our Bakthi and Pooja if is a tool to clear off all our Bad Karma and reap 100 percent beneficial results till our death, irrespective of what our intentions and deeds are, Not a single soul will suffer the impact of Negative Karma of the past and the present.

 

[nachi naga]

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[TD][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Consider the service the Sun (Surya) does to this world! This is within the daily experience of all. The Sun is the source of all life forms on this planet. Without His rays, the earth will be a desolate waste. He draws up into the sky the waters of seas and lakes, and from the clouds showers rain on the crops. He is theDharmadevatha (God of righteousness), scattering His rays equally on all. The service He does and the happiness He contributes is something no one else can. Despite doing this for millions of years, without any pride, He moves about unattached to the consequences of His energising mission of service. The Sun is thus teaching us that when one is oneself, there will be no exhaustion or elation, disgust or pride. That is, the task of Surya is not something imposed from outside and taken up under compulsio n. That is why it is performed systematically, and smoothly.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]- Geeta Vahini, Ch 6.[/SIZE][/FONT]​

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]The realization of God is the goal and destiny of human life. - Baba[/SIZE][/FONT]​

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[renuka]

I am a god believer just as many of you are. We all praise the bhaktas like Prahlada, Markanteya and so on. But they had so much unshakeable belief in God that even when death was staring straight at their face, they did not become afraid. But are we anywhere near to that? To what extent is our faith in god "real" - may be just less than 1% compared to theirs, according to me. What are we doing to improve ourselves? Are we not simply putting up a false show of being bhaktas and comfortably thinking that god can be easily fooled by all these "tricks" of ours?

Dear Sarma Ji,

Even if faith is 1 % thats still good enough for a start..doesnt Geeta say:

TEXT 40​

nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat


In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

Are we not simply putting up a false show of being bhaktas and comfortably thinking that god can be easily fooled by all these "tricks" of ours?

dear sir..we are only fooling ourselves is we are putting up a false show..God is above praise and blame we can never "Trick" Him but we can "Trap" Him in our heart with Trikarana Suddhi(Purity in Thoughts,Words and Deeds)

Summary: remember the 3 T's

Dont Trick God
Trap Him instead
With Trikarana Suddhi.

 

[nachi naga]

3-T technology = Truth,Trust,Time om gurubhyo na ma ha;va ya na ma si

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Sarma Ji,

Even if faith is 1 % thats still good enough for a start..doesnt Geeta say:

TEXT 40​

nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
svalpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat


In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

​

dear sir..we are only fooling ourselves is we are putting up a false show..God is above praise and blame we can never "Trick" Him but we can "Trap" Him in our heart with Trikarana Suddhi(Purity in Thoughts,Words and Deeds)

Summary: remember the 3 T's

Dont Trick God
Trap Him instead
With Trikarana Suddhi.

Is not "trapping" a very unsatisfactory word? Are we trying some sort of hunting exercise to "trap" an innocent god by laying clever devices into which god will fall, ...and then suffer also? Does this not prove that we, who "claim" that god can be "trapped" by our ruse/s, are cleverer than god? Is it not pure blasphemy?

And then, can anyone of us honestly claim that we practice, or even try to practice, the thrikarana suddhi you sagely flaunt? If anyone goes through the posts we make here, there will be ample evidence for our lax attitude to this purification of thoughts and words; deeds can be imagined on that basis.

What I am saying is not showing off some bookish knowledge but honest, god-fearing soul search and answers arising therefrom.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

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[TD]Consider the service the Sun (Surya) does to this world! This is within the daily experience of all. The Sun is the source of all life forms on this planet. Without His rays, the earth will be a desolate waste. He draws up into the sky the waters of seas and lakes, and from the clouds showers rain on the crops. He is theDharmadevatha (God of righteousness), scattering His rays equally on all. The service He does and the happiness He contributes is something no one else can. Despite doing this for millions of years, without any pride, He moves about unattached to the consequences of His energising mission of service. The Sun is thus teaching us that when one is oneself, there will be no exhaustion or elation, disgust or pride. That is, the task of Surya is not something imposed from outside and taken up under compulsio n. That is why it is performed systematically, and smoothly.

[SIZE=-1]- Geeta Vahini, Ch 6.[/SIZE]​

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[SIZE=+1]The realization of God is the goal and destiny of human life. - Baba[/SIZE]​

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If I am correct, this was posted by Renukaji also. It is a good message on the
day of Pongal.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[ozone]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi amala Ji,

As long as there are Moderators in this Forum, no one will be 'hounded out'. I have already said enough on the silence of certain members.

Also, I want to make this very clear, this has nothing to do whether certain members follow certain philosophy. Involving others with one's own behavior causing the breaking of the Forum rules, unfortunately, has created a 'clique' mentality, looking for 'fairness' towards all 'cliques'. This implies that this Forum is moderated on the block thinking basis. I want to make sure that all members understand that this Forum is moderated by the conduct of EACH INDIVIDUAL and nothing else.

Regards,
KRS

While I think that each of these individuals had individually overstepped the line of being fair, the timing of their collective silence does make it appear a block moderation. Since all the evidences have been cleaned up, all of us cannot come to the same conclusion as you do. So, you might have to be open to more once in a while questions raised about this action and be kind enough to answer them even if it is a repeat.

 

[ozone]

The missing members are either choosing to stay away as a form of protest or maybe they have been ganged up and hounded out or just lost the interest to post. I don't know which. But good for you, God believers and theists if you think this is a victory.

I personally feel this forum is a drag and seems drearier since their departure. If not anything at least they did provide some infotainment and i mean this in the nicest possible way. I for one hope they do return so that this forum will be as lively as before.

for me it is less garbage to deal with. For such infotainment, one can always look forward to other sources.
Some of what they said added nothing to strengthen the feelings of Tamils or Brahmins. Some of them were outright criticisms of practices without providing alternatives that were aligned or strengthened the current one.
For every member that grieves over their disapperance, there is equal number of people who feel that some amount of feedback to them was due, and if they cannot take the feedback in the right spirit, we dont see a reason for grief.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

3-T technology = Truth,Trust,Time om gurubhyo na ma ha;va ya na ma si

Truth - Majority of the people accept the evolution concept as True, just as those who believe in God and
assume his existence. Knowledge, truth and proof are intertwined. If a person possesses adequate knowledge
he will automatically have a sense of understanding of a fact or truth, which would clearly and distinctly
appear before his mind to accept the truth. On the other hand, if he analyses the ideas, which are again of
two types i.e. one is innate and the other is adventitious, both will ultimately to lead to the point of truth
Trust - God wants us to trust him. God wants a relationship built on Trust not on proof.
Time - How can there be words like any "before" or "after" without the existence of Time. This again inter
related to the existence of Motion, Earth revolves around the once per year. We say Navagrahas move
from one Rasi to another Rasi and we start for searching for the Pariharams. Where does all this lead us to?

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[ShivKC]

Cant believe this 'god' thread has crossed 2000+ posts !!!

the thread with highest no of posts!

god exists...

 

[sarma-61]

Shri Sarma,

Different sorta Atma does not lead to the creation of new Religion. In this Maya Bhoo Longam, Lord Rama was an incarnation and lead a life of Manava, undergoing all suffering from his parents, rakshasas, asuras and Ravana.

Do you feel the soul of Sri Rama and we ordinary souls are the same?

The above is just an example. There were many such souls including Adi Shankarar who survived on the same bhoo logam with full of maya and did his duty as possible to his mother whom he left stranded.

I dont understand how you could not figure out such differnt sorta atmas and consider this as my own fantasy theory?


If our flat/building colapses, if our CAR get crushed in accident, if our jwellery stollen, some humans may start scolding GOD and call him cruel. That is how, I think most of the humans start hating and cursing GOD. This is nothing but purely our IGNORANCE, AANGAARAM, AATHRAM.

The simple thing is all good and bad events happens at the time it has to happen as per our destiney. Lose and gains in specific manner happens as how we are destined to experience as per our KARMA.

Our Bakthi and Pooja if is a tool to clear off all our Bad Karma and reap 100 percent beneficial results till our death, irrespective of what our intentions and deeds are, Not a single soul will suffer the impact of Negative Karma of the past and the present.

Shri Ravi sir,

Have you noticed that you have shifted the discussion from Prahlada and Markanteya to Rama?

The concept of Atma afaik is from vedaantha and it may not be easy to differentiate between one atma and another. Advaitha, visishtadvaitha, etc., are probably not clear about the pristine appearance of an atma. (I am not well-read, so if this is not correct, please guide me.) But in the actual world all atmas are the same, only their baggage by way of karmas differs.

Rama's case, you will agree, stands on a different plane if you consider only his avataara aspect. But once we set that aside, he also was born a prince, had to go compulsorily to the forests with visvamitra, break siva's bow to win the hands of sita, get exiled because of intrigue by kaikeyi which had its roots in Dasaratha's promise to Kaikeyi's father that the kingdom would be given to Kaikeyi's son, lose his wife due Ravana's kidnapping, kill Ravana with the help of monkeys (killing vaali from hiding, to earn sugriva's alliance), vibheeshana, etc., and finally Rama believed a dhobi's gossip and exiled pregnant sita to end her fate by sinking back into the earth. The kingdom (Ramarajya) was divided between Lava and Kusa. Viewed from this angle, Rama comes out no different from many kings with their personal faults, weaknesses, sorrows, tragedies in personal life, etc. So, theoretically Rama's atma is no different from any other ordinary king's.

Your argument of different sorta Atma, I think is a confusion arising from different sort of karma baggage. But then all of us can and should aim for the highest level. Your argument looks to me like you are in favour of reservations for different sorta Atma like ours'. That is what I say, is creating different religion, one for us and one for the real bhaktas (whom you have cleverly abandoned and clasped Rama!).

Let us be honest at least to our conscience and to God.

 

[sarma-61]

Cant believe this 'god' thread has crossed 2000+ posts !!!

the thread with highest no of posts!

god exists...

Just a "kutharkkam" : If it has taken so many posts and is still not coming to any unanimous conclusion, will it not mean that proving god's existence is mighty difficult?

Our atheist friends might have raised this point.

 

[renuka]

Is not "trapping" a very unsatisfactory word? Are we trying some sort of hunting exercise to "trap" an innocent god by laying clever devices into which god will fall, ...and then suffer also? Does this not prove that we, who "claim" that god can be "trapped" by our ruse/s, are cleverer than god? Is it not pure blasphemy?

And then, can anyone of us honestly claim that we practice, or even try to practice, the thrikarana suddhi you sagely flaunt? If anyone goes through the posts we make here, there will be ample evidence for our lax attitude to this purification of thoughts and words; deeds can be imagined on that basis.

What I am saying is not showing off some bookish knowledge but honest, god-fearing soul search and answers arising therefrom.

Dear sir,

I think you misunderstood me.When I said "trap" I didnt mean laying a trap for God in the manner you understood it.

I have read poems written by Bhaktas where this word "trap" is frequently used for example I cant remember the poem fully but one line goes that "Oh Krishna where can You run for I have trapped You in my heart with all my love for You"

I have also read before where Saint Tukaram sang that "God cannot resists the undying pull of His devotees love and persistence.

Swami Yogananda had also mentioned in his text that "Prayer imbued with devotion is the most effective prayer. Devotion, love for God, is the magnetic attraction of the heart that God cannot resist. Paramahansa Yogananda said: “The Searcher of Hearts wants only your sincere love. He is like a little child: someone may offer Him his whole wealth and He doesn’t want it; and another cries to Him, ‘O Lord, I love You!’ and into that devotee’s heart He comes running.”


At no point I was using the word "trap" in an unsatisfactory manner.

I hope I have cleared the doubt you had about what I wrote.

 

[ozone]

Just a "kutharkkam" : If it has taken so many posts and is still not coming to any unanimous conclusion, will it not mean that proving god's existence is mighty difficult?

Our atheist friends might have raised this point.

If one cant believe that 2000+ posts have crossed (Cant believe this 'god' thread has crossed 2000+ posts !!!), which appears to be real from the count, would they believe in something else that cannot be tracked?

 

[ozone]

Are we not simply putting up a false show of being bhaktas and comfortably thinking that god can be easily fooled by all these "tricks" of ours?

Shri Ravi sir,
Let us be honest at least to our conscience and to God.

Does this not prove that we, who "claim" that god can be "trapped" by our ruse/s, are cleverer than god? Is it not pure blasphemy?
If anyone goes through the posts we make here, there will be ample evidence for our lax attitude to this purification of thoughts and words; deeds can be imagined on that basis.
What I am saying is not showing off some bookish knowledge but honest, god-fearing soul search and answers arising therefrom.

I am really lost as to what you are trying to convey Sir.
Are you saying people who believe in God cant have religion?
Are you saying people who believe in God are hypocrites because they do other things?

 

[renuka]

Originally Posted by sarma-61

And then, can anyone of us honestly claim that we practice, or even try to practice, the thrikarana suddhi you sagely flaunt? If anyone goes through the posts we make here, there will be ample evidence for our lax attitude to this purification of thoughts and words; deeds can be imagined on that basis.

Dear Sir,

I am being honest here..Trikarana Suddhi is very hard to practice all the while.

I might be singing some bhajan while driving my car but when someone overtakes me in a dangerous manner and almost drives me off the road..I might be using harsh words in the car only to realize that I am not having 'pure' words anymore..so I know where I can err and try to improve.

Deeds.. I am sure most of us do not cause harm to anyone in day to day life.

Thoughts..I can be very bipolar..can shift from thinking of God to suddenly having any weird thought too.

That is me and I am happy with myself..yes I am not perfect but that doesnt disqualify me to search for God..may be I am not yet good enough for God to acknowledge me as a Bhakta but I like the process of being a Bhakta cos I love God.

I feel as long we honestly know where we stand in life and try to improve ourselves God will guide us may be in this life or in lives to come and I am patient enough to wait.

 

[guruvayurappan]

Dear sir,

I think you misunderstood me.When I said "trap" I didnt mean laying a trap for God in the manner you understood it.

I have read poems written by Bhaktas where this word "trap" is frequently used for example I cant remember the poem fully but one line goes that "Oh Krishna where can You run for I have trapped You in my heart with all my love for You"

I have also read before where Saint Tukaram sang that "God cannot resists the undying pull of His devotees love and persistence.

Swami Yogananda had also mentioned in his text that "Prayer imbued with devotion is the most effective prayer. Devotion, love for God, is the magnetic attraction of the heart that God cannot resist. Paramahansa Yogananda said: “The Searcher of Hearts wants only your sincere love. He is like a little child: someone may offer Him his whole wealth and He doesn’t want it; and another cries to Him, ‘O Lord, I love You!’ and into that devotee’s heart He comes running.”


At no point I was using the word "trap" in an unsatisfactory manner.

I hope I have cleared the doubt you had about what I wrote.

dear renuka !
nothing wrong with word trap . in mahabharatham ,when yasuda could tie her son SRI KRISHNA others could not do it .vidurar was able to tie KRISHNA because of his bhakthi when others could not do so.
out of bhakthi each and every gopiar were claming that sri Krishna was with her. In thulabaram a leaf of thulasi were balancing the weight of HIM.that is strength of bhakthi
guruvayurappan

 

[nachi naga]

just like the blood flowing within us,the entire gamut of creation,is within a being called affectionately as god.when avatars appear in bhu-lokah,its more like we witness a dream within a dream.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Dear Sir,

I am being honest here..Trikarana Suddhi is very hard to practice all the while.

I might be singing some bhajan while driving my car but when someone overtakes me in a dangerous manner and almost drives me off the road..I might be using harsh words in the car only to realize that I am not having 'pure' words anymore..so I know where I can err and try to improve.

Deeds.. I am sure most of us do not cause harm to anyone in day to day life.

Thoughts..I can be very bipolar..can shift from thinking of God to suddenly having any weird thought too.

That is me and I am happy with myself..yes I am not perfect but that doesnt disqualify me to search for God..may be I am not yet good enough for God to acknowledge me as a Bhakta but I like the process of being a Bhakta cos I love God.

I feel as long we honestly know where we stand in life and try to improve ourselves God will guide us may be in this life or in lives to come and I am patient enough to wait.

Renukaji, your compromise and self contentment in life will certainly
take you near the God. Someone through human Swaroopam surely
will BLESS for all your good deeds.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi sir,

Have you noticed that you have shifted the discussion from Prahlada and Markanteya to Rama?

The concept of Atma afaik is from vedaantha and it may not be easy to differentiate between one atma and another. Advaitha, visishtadvaitha, etc., are probably not clear about the pristine appearance of an atma. (I am not well-read, so if this is not correct, please guide me.) But in the actual world all atmas are the same, only their baggage by way of karmas differs.

Rama's case, you will agree, stands on a different plane if you consider only his avataara aspect. But once we set that aside, he also was born a prince, had to go compulsorily to the forests with visvamitra, break siva's bow to win the hands of sita, get exiled because of intrigue by kaikeyi which had its roots in Dasaratha's promise to Kaikeyi's father that the kingdom would be given to Kaikeyi's son, lose his wife due Ravana's kidnapping, kill Ravana with the help of monkeys (killing vaali from hiding, to earn sugriva's alliance), vibheeshana, etc., and finally Rama believed a dhobi's gossip and exiled pregnant sita to end her fate by sinking back into the earth. The kingdom (Ramarajya) was divided between Lava and Kusa. Viewed from this angle, Rama comes out no different from many kings with their personal faults, weaknesses, sorrows, tragedies in personal life, etc. So, theoretically Rama's atma is no different from any other ordinary king's.

Your argument of different sorta Atma, I think is a confusion arising from different sort of karma baggage. But then all of us can and should aim for the highest level. Your argument looks to me like you are in favour of reservations for different sorta Atma like ours'. That is what I say, is creating different religion, one for us and one for the real bhaktas (whom you have cleverly abandoned and clasped Rama!).

Let us be honest at least to our conscience and to God.

Don't worry sir!!!!. None of us here are dishonest. We all are sharing our views and thoughts to the best of our knowledge and understanding.

If you could not grasp the import of my message and if you could not accept that Rama, Adi Sankarar and many devine souls who all took birth in this Maya Bhoo logam for the human kind, are all not similar to other ordinary souls, does not mean that you and me are dishonest to our conscience and to GOD.

 

[renuka]

Renukaji, your compromise and self contentment in life will certainly
take you near the God. Someone through human Swaroopam surely
will BLESS for all your good deeds.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Dear sir,

You always have kind words and good thoughts for everyone here...thank you very much for every word you say.

 

[prasad1]

Just a "kutharkkam" : If it has taken so many posts and is still not coming to any unanimous conclusion, will it not mean that proving god's existence is mighty difficult?

Our atheist friends might have raised this point.

Here we go again. I beg to differ from your POV. From your writing style it appears you have a superiority complex. Please remember this a very democratic forum. The webmaster and moderator let us put our point of view. So please take a moment before your next post. If you expect to be the "guru" or "king" that we are all going to follow, you are going to be disappointed.

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Personally I do not like to repeat myself often. At one stage I participated in this thread, said what I had to say. It seems, a drama had taken place in this thread, again. This forum has seen many dramas.

I am quite surprised to see the length of this thread. This thread has discussed without any conclusion about a subject that is not really worth discussing about.

Faith in God or the lack of it is purely personal matter. Besides, it is not even a permanent feature. By their own admission, some of the persons who debated against the existence of God were staunch believers at one time. They may change their opinion yet again; in the same way, some of the debators who debated to establish 'God Exists' could cahnge their views at 180 degrees at a later stage.

Here is a subject to discuss, debate, fight even worth dying for.............

PISA is an assessment programme conducted amoung the youngsters aged 15, chosen from OECD countries. Thee are about 73 countries who took part in this assessment in 2011. India is one of the countries. Indian students ranked 72 in that assessment. Thee was an assessment in 2009 too. The result for India was no different.

We pride the academic prowess of Indian students. But this their performance. Kindly read this ..... Indian students rank 2nd last in global test - The Times of India

Forget about the debate about God for the time-being. How about discussing the ways and means to improve the academic skills of our students? ( Students were chosen from Tamil Nadu and Himachal Pradesh).

Cheers?