God Exists

[renuka]

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You can ask a question to yourself to the origin, "How can I exist without a creator".

Dear Sir,

Actually that question answers all..How can I exist without a creator.
I am no more going to say that we need Father and Mother(since cloning has to be taken into account) to create us but rather going to say we need donor genetic material for procreation.

In other words we humans still cant create Raw Material for procreation.
We still depend on what is already present in nature.

So who created all the Raw Material that we humans are using to invent anything?

The answer is quiet obvious I feel.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I am not just going to talk of Father and Mother only. Does a Saint get
a child ( by rightful methods) because he has been predestined by God
to live and lead a different life spiritual activities. Assuming, if Father and
Mother wishes to have a child, child is not born just like that (leave alone
artificial methods after the failure of natural methods and leading to frustration,
criticism in the family, etc) It is only with His blessings, he creates men to be
husbands of wives and women to be wives of husbands. We do not behave
like animals and adhere to certain principles given to us in the Puranas. It is the
God, who guards our minds and hearts, which we fail to know at times. Only
with HIS blessings we have all taken birth on this planet, which no one can deny.
We can proudly say we are God's child. Only with HIS blessings, relationship
of husband and wife is formed paving a way to obtain inheritance.
We say hereditary. We have 3 Vedas. Yajur, Rugh and Sama Vedas (Leave
Atharvana Veda).

Yajur Veda - Apasthamba Suthram and Bodayana Suthram
Rugh Veda - Aasvalaayana Suthram abd Kathyaayana Suthram
Sama Veda - Thraahyaayani Suthram and Ranaayani Suthram

There are 20 odd Gothrams and Pravaram. We say marriage should not take
place within the same Gothram, for the child born to be perfect, intelligent and
to possess good conduct, etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[renuka]

I am not just going to talk of Father and Mother only. Does a Saint get
a child ( by rightful methods) because he has been predestined by God
to live and lead a different life spiritual activities. Assuming, if Father and
Mother wishes to have a child, child is not born just like that (leave alone
artificial methods after the failure of natural methods and leading to frustration,
criticism in the family, etc) It is only with His blessings, he creates men to be
husbands of wives and women to be wives of husbands. We do not behave
like animals and adhere to certain principles given to us in the Puranas. It is the
God, who guards our minds and hearts, which we fail to know at times. Only
with HIS blessings we have all taken birth on this planet, which no one can deny.
We can proudly say we are God's child. Only with HIS blessings, relationship
of husband and wife is formed paving a way to obtain inheritance.
We say hereditary. We have 3 Vedas. Yajur, Rugh and Sama Vedas (Leave
Atharvana Veda).

Yajur Veda - Apasthamba Suthram and Bodayana Suthram
Rugh Veda - Aasvalaayana Suthram abd Kathyaayana Suthram
Sama Veda - Thraahyaayani Suthram and Ranaayani Suthram

There are 20 odd Gothrams and Pravaram. We say marriage should not take
place within the same Gothram, for the child born to be perfect, intelligent and
to possess good conduct, etc.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Actually is you ask me I would not like to say its becos of God blessings a person begets a child.
That thought has led to many childless couples especially childless woman being branded "unlucky" with bad karma etc.


Ok I will give you example of 2 women who never had children and worthy of praise.

1st..Sarada Devi wife of Ramakrishna Paramahansa.

2nd Karnam Subbamma the childless Brahmin lady who lived near Sathya Sai Baba's house when He was a child who used to be a foster mother to Him and prepare food for Him.


I am sure these 2 women have better karma than anyone of us lesser mortals.

Coming to Gotra and marriage.
Many of us Non Brahmins are not too sure of our Gothrams too and marriage still takes place.
I believe as long my DNA doesnt match the person I am marrying marriage should be fine.
Many races in the world who dont have Gotra system get married too with normal healthy children.

Coming to good conduct its hard to say who will turn out good and who will become bad merely from a gotra match.
Its actually quite hard even to know how our mind will be in the next second or two whether we will have good thoughts or bad thoughts..none of us really know isnt it?

I always believe that there are 2 types of good people and 2 types of bad people

Good people

1st type..the truly good
2nd type ..the apparently good who lacked an opportunity to be bad.

Bad people

1st type..the truly bad
2nd type..the apparently bad who lacked an opportunity to be good.

Only God really knows which category anyone of us really fall in.

 

[sarang]

Type 2 people will form the majority, I think. Many a time a good influence, pressure or advice from someone they respect will steer them to the good path.

One case etched strongly in my memory happened in my childhood, more than 55 years ago. My father was was an examiner (paper correction) for the degree course; one evening, two (a stranger brought by a friend) people requested him to add marks to a particular candidate and promised monetary rewards. My mother, who was overhearing the conversation (as usual), intervened, told them that it will be papam to do that and asked them to go away. Nowadays threats and allurements go together.

Abdul kalam, in his interactions with young students, always tells them to put pressure on their parents not to accept bribes or indulge in corruption. I remember, he said once, do not buy or accept a gift of xbox, if you know that money was not rightly earned.

We need more of such intervening good people as 100% good are rare.

I always believe that there are 2 types of good people and 2 types of bad people

Good people

1st type..the truly good
2nd type ..the apparently good who lacked an opportunity to be bad.

Bad people

1st type..the truly bad
2nd type..the apparently bad who lacked an opportunity to be good.

Only God really knows which category anyone of us really fall in.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Renukaji

This world is a mixture good and bad and it is very difficult to filter
except one odd person. Just like Dr Kalam, as Mr Sarang has quoted.

As regards your other queries, there are many instances to quote.
Those ladies perhaps would not have wished to have a child because
their centre of attraction pulled towards the Godliness and service
to the God. As regards Sarada Devi, she was always following the
footsteps of her husband Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa, who was fully
independent and self governing, besides having total power towards
the attainment of the bliss of the Almighty.

Nowadays only DNA study has become prominent. We cannot test or conduct
a DNA before finalizing the marriage of a person. If someone gets only girls,
or someone getting boys, it reflects the celestial powers or they say
hereditary. Our great grand fathers and elders had faith in all these. Tastes
differ from person to person.

I do not have much knowledge in horoscope study. My mother is used to do well.
I have heard from Astrologers, progeny in Vedic Astrology has a say.
They co-relate some stars for Men - Sun and Venus
for Women - Moon and Mars
They used to say that horoscope has inbuilt strength in it to spell about
progeny or children.

They further mention - Jupiter is Putrakartha
Venus is sperm
Kethu is abortive etc.

I repeat here again that my knowledge in the study of horoscope is very poor.
Only for fun and curiosity, sometimes I go through.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[ozone]

Had this in my inbox for a while.
Just thought why not share. Sorry, if this is a repeat and some one just took it off from here and shared it with me.

If:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Is represented as:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.

Then:

H-A-R-D-W-O- R- K

8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98%

And:

K-N-O-W-L-E- D-G-E

11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+ 5 = 96%

But:

A-T-T-I-T-U- D-E

1+20+20+9+20+ 21+4+5 = 100%

THEN, look how far the love of God will take you:

L-O-V-E-O-F- G-O-D
12+15+22+5+15+ 6+7+15+4 = 101%

Therefore, one can conclude with mathematical certainty that:

While Hard Work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will
get you there, It's the Love of God that will put you over the top!

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Had this in my inbox for a while.
Just thought why not share. Sorry, if this is a repeat and some one just took it off from here and shared it with me.

If:

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Is represented as:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.

Then:

H-A-R-D-W-O- R- K

8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98%

And:

K-N-O-W-L-E- D-G-E

11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+ 5 = 96%

But:

A-T-T-I-T-U- D-E

1+20+20+9+20+ 21+4+5 = 100%

THEN, look how far the love of God will take you:

L-O-V-E-O-F- G-O-D
12+15+22+5+15+ 6+7+15+4 = 101%

Therefore, one can conclude with mathematical certainty that:

While Hard Work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will
get you there, It's the Love of God that will put you over the top!

Excellent, superb.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[Mayuram V.Sankaran]

Ozone, if we think a little about it, the most that we are in control of in this world -- not of our making -- is 'our effort'. With 'effort' we may be able to overcome the intensity of competition that exists here for scarce goods and services. With effort and determination, we may be able to achieve our 'goals' notwithstanding the many odds that we may face in the process. But other than 'effort', very few things seem to be under our control and so, in order to face the uncertainties and unpredictability of life, we turn to 'faith in God'.

 

[renuka]

But other than 'effort', very few things seem to be under our control and so, in order to face the uncertainties and unpredictability of life, we turn to 'faith in God'.

Dear Mayuram,

Caturvidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinorjuna, ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (Gita 7.16). The Bhagavadgita distinguishes four kinds of devotees. Many people run to God, offer prayers to God every day, but for what is this prayer? What do you want from God? There are people who want something from God. If you want nothing, you will not approach anything. People are distressed in life. There is great sorrow, poverty, ignorance, disease, tension, conflict, and what not. They cry, “God, come and help me.” These devotees who cry for help from God because they are in a state of distress are called arthas, distressed devotees. They want nothing else from God except freedom from distress.

taken from The Hidden Meaning of the Seventh Chapter of the Gita - A Study of the Bhagavadgita - Chapter 10

I think you have described the 1st category of devotees.

 

[gopaindu]

Namaste DrBaraniji,

The inability of atheists to argue and/or to understand the spiritual or philosophical ideas(truths ?)does not automatically prove existence of God. Aethiest have not stopped, they are progressing - progressed from fire, wheel to condoms,computers,satelites and they still going - and they dont have the responsibility prove the existence of pink unicorn or holy/celestial tea pot circling sun.

Also, it is not(is it ?)the duty/responsibility(shame ?)of believers to prove(inability to prove ?)exisitence of God.

Om Hiranya Rethase Namaha

Thanks,
Jai SiyaRaam

Dear Member,
Your identity is not known to me. Otherwise, I would have addressed to you by name. Jai SiyaRaam is not an identity it is such a common word. To prove the existance of god, can you please give the reason for disparity among human beings and other living beings.There are various trees and different types of mountains and different types of rivers. Can you explain the disparity. If you are not able to explain, then it amounts to the fact that atheism is only a farce or falsehood and for your information,one of the great authors viz., Sommerset Maugham in his book, has viewed that Hinduism (whereas it should be Sanatana Dharma) alone explains the disparity among human beings on the basis of its Karma Theory and no other religion could give such a logical explanation. Please think it over. In the whole world or even in our country, if you take a survey, the believers in existance of god will definitely outnumber those who do not.To prove God does not exist only atheists should give a logical explanation for their faith and not otherwise. Therefore, only the atheist should feel the responsibility(shame) for their antithesis. I am pained to read your posting of the word shame on the believers of God. rajaji48

 

[sarma-61]

on-the-rule-of-the-road

Re the role of moderation in the ensuing silence of some of our honourable members, I am but forced to think back to my high school days.

The link is to a classic essay, by a.g.gardiner, titled, ‘on the rule of the road’, and was presented to us, by my inimitable English teacher, Mr. D.O.Perry (God Bless his soul).

This is a very small, but classic essay, on the limits of exercising our liberties, to the detriment of impinging on someone else liberty.

Please enjoy it for what it is worth, but maybe a timely reminder, for everyone, that while no one likes moderation, it may be needed, for proper functioning of this forum.

And the right attitude, in my opinion, is, if you get pulled up, don’t take it personally, but dust it off like Teflon, and prep yourself again, for another admonishment.

Enjoy the ride here, as my friend renus would wont to say, though it might get bumpy at times, till your stop arrives.

Thank you.

ps..if you do not want to read the essay, here are my favourite quotes for your (dis)pelasure anyway

There is a danger of the world getting liberty-drunk in these days ... and it is just as well to remind ourselves of what the rule of the road means. It means that in order that the liberties of all may be preserved, the liberties of everybody must be curtailed.

Liberty is not a personal affair only, but a social contract. It is an accommodation of interests. In matters which do not touch anybody else’s liberty, of course,

A reasonable consideration for the rights or feelings of others is the foundation of social conduct.

It is in the small matters of conduct, in the observance of the rule of the road, that we pass judgment upon ourselves, and declare that we are civilized or uncivilized. The great moments of heroism and sacrifice are rare. It is the little habits of commonplace intercourse that make up the great sum of life and sweeten or make bitter the journey.

Shri Kunjuppu sir,

I find that the usual group of people arguing against god, as atheists, agnostics, etc., have all disappeared from here. It is a sure success of the devout theists here; but may be we should give the credit to god himself.

But may I ask one question: has anyone of us seen god or any action which can be undoubtedly be said to be his and his only? Many times I have asked these doubts to eminent people but they have all told me to believe more and more firmly and wait. But such an answer has not satisfied me ever.

I will request you and others here to analyze their own minds and come out with the reasons as to what makes them believe in god. I do so because I am afraid all atheists will suffer after death.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear ozone !
i also got it in FACE book up to attitude (100%). In your post love of god also added (101%)
very nice
guruvayurappan

 

[kunjuppu]

Shri Kunjuppu sir,

I find that the usual group of people arguing against god, as atheists, agnostics, etc., have all disappeared from here. It is a sure success of the devout theists here; but may be we should give the credit to god himself.

But may I ask one question: has anyone of us seen god or any action which can be undoubtedly be said to be his and his only? Many times I have asked these doubts to eminent people but they have all told me to believe more and more firmly and wait. But such an answer has not satisfied me ever.

I will request you and others here to analyze their own minds and come out with the reasons as to what makes them believe in god. I do so because I am afraid all atheists will suffer after death.

Dear sarma,

Personally, the absence of certain members of the forum, is a source of grief to me. I am unable to look upon this as ‘victory for god’, but more as a failure of civility of humans.

To me a forum, is like a house. If the windows are open, and breeze comes from all directions, the forum is enriched. Hence my reason for looking at the departure of certain members, as something, that makes us all poor. We are now bereft of their immense knowledge, and lose an opportunity to understand more about our own faith – good and bad.

Re as to why I believe in God? To me, it is a source of comfort. I too, am afraid of dying, and many a times critical, whisper the name of 'siva', to give me solace.

Beyond death, I don’t know, and I am not sure what scenario will happen re whether I will really meet yama on his buffalo or chitragupta keeping track of my good/bad deeds.

Hope this explains

 

[guruvayurappan]

Shri Kunjuppu sir,

I find that the usual group of people arguing against god, as atheists, agnostics, etc., have all disappeared from here. It is a sure success of the devout theists here; but may be we should give the credit to god himself.

But may I ask one question: has anyone of us seen god or any action which can be undoubtedly be said to be his and his only? Many times I have asked these doubts to eminent people but they have all told me to believe more and more firmly and wait. But such an answer has not satisfied me ever.

I will request you and others here to analyze their own minds and come out with the reasons as to what makes them believe in god. I do so because I am afraid all atheists will suffer after death.

dear sarma 61 !
all are sailing in the same boat.our inner feelings makes us to believe in GOD .we can not give specific reason/incidence to justify our believe . but definitely all events in our life are controlled by HIM. when you are getting happiness with true faith in GOD ,what is the necessity to prove it to some body who feels happiness denying God existence . naam vanki vantha varum ibadi , avarkal vanki vantham varum appadi .Okva ?
guruvayurappan

guruvayurappan

 

[amala]

The missing members are either choosing to stay away as a form of protest or maybe they have been ganged up and hounded out or just lost the interest to post. I don't know which. But good for you, God believers and theists if you think this is a victory.

I personally feel this forum is a drag and seems drearier since their departure. If not anything at least they did provide some infotainment and i mean this in the nicest possible way. I for one hope they do return so that this forum will be as lively as before.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Mr Sarma-61 raises a query has any one seen the God directly, but he has not raised a query as to any one
has felt the presence of the God. Before going into depth, I would like to raise a question. We do
Ceremonies or Shrardham to our forefathers every year on a particular day, i.e. the day on which
the soul passed away, following strictly the Thithi, Paksham, etc. When we do that Karma in a clear
understanding and with complete faith, we do homam and feed the people to get a mental satisfaction i.e. in turn
having to satisfy our forefathers with an assumption that their soul should not wander around for
want of food. Out of two who are fed, one is Pithru and the other is Vishwakarma. Why all this done?
Can we raise a query here that my father does not come and eat and why should I do this. If one does
a penetrative analysis of his/her heart and mind, I am sure he/she will be able to cleverly understand the
crux of the matter. Changing one's mind requires taking steps to train the heart that it is right, good and
safe to turn ourselves to that and try to draw ourselves to be near HIM. The more he/she wants to be with
HIM the more that desire wells up within that person to spend more time with HIM and ultimately or eventually
he/she comes to the stage of where he is - to find out in anxiety - and that thought persists regularly
to attain the goal. Just for e.g. Sant Thyagaraja sang many glorious songs towards Lord Rama and he
himself through his songs have, (a subtle way of indication what one is thinking or what one wants, hint
of sadness in his songs, hints of happiness, etc) indirectly showed to us that God exists. He has not lived
many centuries ago and it is only an event and evidence to us. In remembrance of him and his praise to
Lord Rama, we celebrate his Day with his Pancharatna Keerthanas.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[nachi naga]

when a being believes,that so & so,is my mother & father,whats the difficulty then beleving in god?beats the shebangs outta me ??uless and untill he the being went and did a paternity check!!!

 

[KRS]

Dear Sowbhagyavathi amala Ji,

As long as there are Moderators in this Forum, no one will be 'hounded out'. I have already said enough on the silence of certain members.

Also, I want to make this very clear, this has nothing to do whether certain members follow certain philosophy. Involving others with one's own behavior causing the breaking of the Forum rules, unfortunately, has created a 'clique' mentality, looking for 'fairness' towards all 'cliques'. This implies that this Forum is moderated on the block thinking basis. I want to make sure that all members understand that this Forum is moderated by the conduct of EACH INDIVIDUAL and nothing else.

Regards,
KRS

The missing members are either choosing to stay away as a form of protest or maybe they have been ganged up and hounded out or just lost the interest to post. I don't know which. But good for you, God believers and theists if you think this is a victory.

I personally feel this forum is a drag and seems drearier since their departure. If not anything at least they did provide some infotainment and i mean this in the nicest possible way. I for one hope they do return so that this forum will be as lively as before.

 

[renuka]

I will request you and others here to analyze their own minds and come out with the reasons as to what makes them believe in god. I do so because I am afraid all atheists will suffer after death.

To tell you the truth I have never analyzed my mind to wonder why I believe in God.
Believe in God came naturally to me like how I never question why I need to breathe.
Its not blind faith either and not fear either,its just a unique feeling of love which I sometimes can't find words to describe.

Sometimes too much analysis takes us no where, I rather use the limited time I have and chant the name of God instead of wondering why I believe in Him.

 

[renuka]

Shri Kunjuppu sir,

I find that the usual group of people arguing against god, as atheists, agnostics, etc., have all disappeared from here. It is a sure success of the devout theists here; but may be we should give the credit to god himself.

Dear Sarma ji,

None of us Theist here view the absence of some members here as a victory to us or God for that matter.
People have their own reasons to stay or leave and the choice is purely up to them.
When all of us debated no one Theist or Atheist had the intention to pave the road for the exit of anyone.

After all what is the "victory" about? Most of us here are just Username and Passwords.
Its not a war and if one is slain he attains heaven or if he is the victor he rules the earth.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

when a being believes,that so & so,is my mother & father,whats the difficulty then beleving in god?beats the shebangs outta me ??uless and untill he the being went and did a paternity check!!!

This concept is sufficient to conclude that when we have faith in our father, who is introduced
to us by our mother. Appa Paru Appa Paru. When an infant develops faith and gets introduced to
his/her relatives, after all we are all grown up people, why not we frame up our mind and say
to our conscious that there is a power which controls, coordinates, manages, guides, leads, promotes
our feelings, overseas all the activities is not but a super power i.e. God.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarma-61]

I am a god believer just as many of you are. We all praise the bhaktas like Prahlada, Markanteya and so on. But they had so much unshakeable belief in God that even when death was staring straight at their face, they did not become afraid. But are we anywhere near to that? To what extent is our faith in god "real" - may be just less than 1% compared to theirs, according to me. What are we doing to improve ourselves? Are we not simply putting up a false show of being bhaktas and comfortably thinking that god can be easily fooled by all these "tricks" of ours?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

There is no need to fool someone and play dirty tricks to please someone.
The expression of God's presence, feels like (according to you) etc differ
from person to person in different circumstances. I just do not conclude it
as a feeling, because it is beyond that. If you take survey from a common
folk, some will say they believe in God, some do not and some may say they
do not know. God is not an Object to show just like a product from the
Departmental Stores but it is a reality to those who have the absolute faith
in HIM. His (Omnipresent) manifest presence is already felt by people in places
here and there over the world hovering on this earth planet with the Nature's
havoc reminding them that HE exists. As you say, if someone suspects HIS
presence, why people should run to the Temple in times of crisis.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[C RAVI]

I am a god believer just as many of you are. We all praise the bhaktas like Prahlada, Markanteya and so on. But they had so much unshakeable belief in God that even when death was staring straight at their face, they did not become afraid. But are we anywhere near to that? To what extent is our faith in god "real" - may be just less than 1% compared to theirs, according to me. What are we doing to improve ourselves? Are we not simply putting up a false show of being bhaktas and comfortably thinking that god can be easily fooled by all these "tricks" of ours?

Shri Sarma,

Prahlatha like Atmas are diffent sorta atmas and are those who showed us what bakthi is, who the lord is. And those Atmas including Hirnyakashyapu were born on Earth due specific reasons as per the epic stories.

We all as mare Jeevaatma can not be expected to have such boldness to face death in front of us with our strong belief that even if we stand in front of a truck our God will rescue us from death.

At least we can realize that God is within our purest inner consciousness, strenghten this true realization through spirituality as possible and make sure that we don't kill our consciousness out of our desire to acheive, gain, win over, instigating ill will and do all trick and tactics for our benefit.

No way we can fool God with our trick and tactics. If we feel so, it means we are fools or mental, IMHO. It is we Humans who are tricked by Navagrahas, as per our karma.

 

[sarma-61]

Shri Sarma,

Prahlatha like Atmas are diffent sorta atmas and are those who showed us what bakthi is, who the lord is. And those Atmas including Hirnyakashyapu were born on Earth due specific reasons as per the epic stories.

We all as mare Jeevaatma can not be expected to have such boldness to face death in front of us with our strong belief that even if we stand in front of a truck our God will rescue us from death.

At least we can realize that God is within our purest inner consciousness, strenghten this true realization through spirituality as possible and make sure that we don't kill our consciousness out of our desire to acheive, gain, win over, instigating ill will and do all trick and tactics for our benefit.

No way we can fool God with our trick and tactics. If we feel so, it means we are fools or mental, IMHO. It is we Humans who are tricked by Navagrahas, as per our karma.

Shri Ravi sir,

I think yours is an 'escapist' explanation. I do not find, first of all, as to why there is any difference between the aatma of prahlaada or any one of us. I am also not saying that we should exhibit our trust in god by standing in the middle of a highway. But beyond such actions, do we, really, really trust in god at all points of time? Especially when something very adverse happens, like, for example your newly purchased flat crumbles down due to defective materials, or your new car gets into a very serious accident injuring or killing the occupants, or things so serious as that? I honestly feel "no"; we usually grieve and blame god, at least for some time. All our bhakthi is only like fair-weather friendship and nobody wants a god who tests, a god who makes you suffer. So, are we not laying down conditions subject to which only our bhakthi and pooja etc., will be there? Of course, you can continue to justify these also on the basis of your diffent sorta atmas theory, but will that not mean you are creating a new religion?