God Exists

[sarma-61]

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Dear Shiv,

No..no one is slipping towards Atheism..when we mean no heaven and hell concept..we mean there is no eternal hell where evil doers are roasted or BBQ for eternity or eternal heaven where some sing from cloud to cloud with harps forever and ever.

We are judged by Yama Dharmaraj based on our actions that are stored in the Chitta portion of the Antarkarana which is the secret(Gupta) guarded well till we die..hence the believe that ChitraGupta(Chitta Gupta) stores our records.

Will you kindly let the forum know whether the portions in bold fonts (made by me) have any backing from hindu scriptures?

AFAI have understood, the various punishments in hell are eternal, so to say, because the time measurement in this world or in the higher worlds are not binding or applicable to hell. So the jeeva suffers the hellish punishments till the next mahApraLaya when everything, that means everything in the universe including hell, the tormented souls and Yama and Chitragupta, all merge back into Brahman and Vishnu alone lies in yoganidra on the banyan leaf. Is this version wrong?

 

[ozone]

Ref post #2201
Dear Sir,
From what I am able to recall (perhaps from Garuda Puranam), some of these jeevas get posted back to earth in any form.
The postings and the form of birth happen based on the Karma balance of the individual, the Pitru Karmas performed by their sons (and relatives) and the recommendations of - I forget the names of these people ( the 16 Dhanams that are given).

 

[renuka]

Will you kindly let the forum know whether the portions in bold fonts (made by me) have any backing from hindu scriptures?

AFAI have understood, the various punishments in hell are eternal, so to say, because the time measurement in this world or in the higher worlds are not binding or applicable to hell. So the jeeva suffers the hellish punishments till the next mahApraLaya when everything, that means everything in the universe including hell, the tormented souls and Yama and Chitragupta, all merge back into Brahman and Vishnu alone lies in yoganidra on the banyan leaf. Is this version wrong?

Dear Sarma Ji,

I have also read before what you had written but as far as I know its not as if they are tormented till the next Mahapralaya but do have rebirth in between cos some Karmas can only be worked out in the physical body in Bhu Loka and some Karmas can be worked out in the astral body in the astral planes.

As far as I know there is nothing is which is eternal from the Advaitic point of view.


Just one more point here sir..you yourself have mentioned that

all merge back into Brahman and Vishnu alone lies in yoganidra on the banyan leaf.​

When everything merges into Brahman that means everything was just transient hence cannot be eternal isnt it?
What I fail to grasp is if everything merges into Brahman how come Vishnu and the banyan leaf are still outside of Brahman?

So its either the everything merges into Brahman(Advaita) or everything merges into Lord Vishnu( Vishistadvaita) depending which view we are subscribing.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Every year we read the history of Lord Chitra Gupta to remember HIM and do good to us.
It is seen from our Puranas, that Lord Chitra Gupta is one of the sons of Lord Brahma,
(who was created by Lord Brahma) to monitor the events of human beings, owing to
indiscriminate act of Yama Darmaraj. Chitra Gupta is known for his meticulous track,
assigned to keep complete records of actions of all human beings on the earth. Upon the
demise of a person, Chitra Gupta has the onerous task of deciding heaven or hell for the
human beings purely based on their actions/deeds on the earth. He is a patron deity of Kayasthas.

Why not we have some input on Mahapralaya (Great Dissolution) particularly about
Lord Vishnu's Matsya Avatar (fish incarnation).

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarma-61]

Dear Sarma Ji,

I have also read before what you had written but as far as I know its not as if they are tormented till the next Mahapralaya but do have rebirth in between cos some Karmas can only be worked out in the physical body in Bhu Loka and some Karmas can be worked out in the astral body in the astral planes.

As far as I know there is nothing is which is eternal from the Advaitic point of view.


Just one more point here sir..you yourself have mentioned that

When everything merges into Brahman that means everything was just transient hence cannot be eternal isnt it?
What I fail to grasp is if everything merges into Brahman how come Vishnu and the banyan leaf are still outside of Brahman?

So its either the everything merges into Brahman(Advaita) or everything merges into Lord Vishnu( Vishistadvaita) depending which view we are subscribing.

Smt. Renuka,

From the advaitic pov, which has now been sort of simplified for mass consumption, Brahman is very easily talked about, like universe, for example. But if one follows strictly and honestly, that "pure advaita", then it will not be possible to justify, bhakti, idol worship and many other things currently practised under the umbrella of Hinduism.

Hence, when we talk about pralaya, mahApralaya, etc., we must restrict ourselves to "vyAvahArika satya". In that, there is a saguna brahman into which all jeevas may merge back and so on, (though I am not sure whether Sankara propounds such a theory as part of his advaita, except when commenting on related verses in the Upanishads). But the concept of vishnu reclining in banyan leaf as a child, biting his toe, (pAdAravindam mukhAravindE vinivESayantam) assumes vishnu to be the Supreme Godhead as per viSiShTAdvaita pov.

As per pure advaita there cannot be any destruction, pralaya or creation again, because Brahman as per pure advaita cannot have characteristics like absorbing the creation or creating again; it is "nirguNa brahman" and so it just is, nothing more can be said about it.

 

[prasad1]

I agree with Sarma's POV. There is nothing outside of Brahman.
Infinity (symbol: ∞) is a concept in many fields, most predominantly mathematics and physics, that refers to a quantity without bound or end. Then you can not have ∞ + 1.

Similarly by definition brahman:

In the ​

Upanishads

the ground of all being; that in virtue of which everything else exists; the ultimate reality, which makes possible time, space, and the natural order.


​

So there can be nothing outside of Brahman.

I am follower for Advaita philosophy, so I am biased to this explanation.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy,
post #2148
30+ hours is no big deal. Take your time.
There were people who waited a life time ... to understand the truth

Sri.Ozone, Greetings.

I could not post my message as I anticipated. That was my point of view only. I was going to express my view, why I do not accept 'Karma theory'. That's all. My view need not be correct at all. I am held up with preparations for the family event... I could not spare some extended time. So, I am sorry. Will write my views in the future. Kindly bear with me, please.

Cheers!

 

[sarang]

Adwaitham is one matham of sanatana dharma; it offers one explanation. There are other schools which interpret the same vedas, upanishads, gita and brahmasutra and come to different conclusions. Even the four mahavakyas are interpreted differently by the different acharyas.If paramatma is nirguna in advaitha, he is saguna (ananta kalyana gunanidhi) in vishishtadvaita. All these vedanic thoughts existed even before the acharyas wrote their bhashyams; they only collated and presented the views.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Very nicely brought out. We read that Adi Shankara, along with Sri Madhava and Sri Ramanuja
revived the Hinduism. We also read that these are three great teachers who gave us the Doctrines
that are followed by the respective group even today. We see from our ancient history that Advaita
Vedanta is purely based on Scriptures, reason and spiritual practices.

Sruti Smrti Purananam Aalayam Karunalaayam
Namami Bhagavatpada Sankaram Loka Sankaram

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[prasad1]

What has the thread "God Exists" to do with economy of China?:focus:

 

[renuka]

What has the thread "God Exists" to do with economy of China?:focus:

Dear Prasad ji,

You know why? Cos China is good in making generics and if you turn any Idol of any form of divinity upside down you will see these words "Made in China"

Therefore God exists!!!(Cos China makes them)

 

[tbs]

Dear Prasad ji,

You know why? Cos China is good in making generics and if you turn any Idol of any form of divinity upside down you will see these words "Made in China"

Therefore God exists!!!(Cos China makes them)

hi renuka,
god exits in china....becoz all murthis are made in china....here in USA.....all ganesha/shiva murthis are made in china.....not

from india.....this is economy of china with god exists....

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad ji,

You know why? Cos China is good in making generics and if you turn any Idol of any form of divinity upside down you will see these words "Made in China"

Therefore God exists!!!(Cos China makes them)

Be careful your tongue-in-cheek statement may be misinterpreted.
You are not equating Idol with God. LOL
China also makes Mao's statues what would you equate that to?

 

[renuka]

Be careful your tongue-in-cheek statement may be misinterpreted.
You are not equating Idol with God. LOL
China also makes Mao's statues what would you equate that to?

Dear Prasad Ji,

Eka Atmaa Sarva Bhoota Antaraatma..Tell me where there is no God?

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Ji,

Eka Atmaa Sarva Bhoota Antaraatma..Tell me where there is no God?

I agree with you. But you limit God to a mere statue it does not seem right.

 

[nachi naga]

eka athma sarva bhoothathma means,there is only gods athma pervading and manifesting,as sarvam brahman mayam..prasad ji

 

[Nara]

Lot of people sagely declare at regular intervals of time that atheism is also a belief system, a religion if you will. On the face of it this is a ridiculous notion, one that betrays a school yard mentality like "you too, you too". Now, Bill Maher has given a fitting and hilarious response. I have given two links just in case YouTube takes it down. Enjoy:

New Rule: Atheism is not a religion! Unbaptizes Mitt Romney's Dead Father-In-Law! - YouTube

» New Rules: Atheism Is Not A Religion; Bill Maher Unbaptizes Mitt Romney’s Dead Father-In-Law Liberal Values

Cheers!

p.s. watch for some colorful language, this is from HBO.

---

Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

We create an image of God in our mind. We have to reach out in our mind and try to
conceive the true form of God. Carved Images no doubt are Sacred Images for us.
If we worship God by focussing our attention either on a Statue made out of Stone or
Metal with love and affection, human soul has the opportunity to grasp and realise the
infinite.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[ShivKC]

on any knee jerk, an atheist would quote 'russels tea pot' analogy to push a theist to shoulder the burden of proof, about the existence of god.

for an argument sake, if one accepts that logic, and drive the discussion in the same line, but revert back the same question and ask ....

yes, your majesty, i agree with you that 'God Doesnt exist' and i'm saying that 'there is a possibility that "no tea pot were orbiting the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars"

i'm saying loud and loud, no tea pot out there!!

i'm not fixing the burden of proof on any one. its up to the atheists to come clear, by what logic they gonna say, that there is exists no tea pot out there!!

is it a faith/belief or just pass the burden of the proof to other side?

so , god doesnt exit means, its just another form of faith, as long as the existence of god is disproved.

Russell's teapot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KRS]

Dear bro Nara Ji,
Unfortunately, I suspect it is the Atheists who have this mentality. Absence of proof for a hypothesis does not automatically make the opposite hypothesis proved. As a scientist, how can you not understand this? It is not enough to ask a theist to 'show me', you also need to show to others 'This is why He is not'. Just saying that one does not believe God does not exist is not enough and in the absence of a proof for such a hypothesis, one, who does not agree with the theists can only make one statement, with the present status of scientific knowledge - 'I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER GOD EXISTS'. Making an ateist statement is exactly a school yard statement.

For the members who do not know who this guy Maher is, he is what they call as a shock-jock, making shocking statements against theists, and while having a quick wit, confusing it with intellect. This is a classic example. He does not think anything of mocking a ritual a family of a dead person, however famous that person was, did for THEIR loved one. If this is what atheists think as a class act, more power to them!

Regards,
KRS

Lot of people sagely declare at regular intervals of time that atheism is also a belief system, a religion if you will. On the face of it this is a ridiculous notion, one that betrays a school yard mentality like "you too, you too". Now, Bill Maher has given a fitting and hilarious response. I have given two links just in case YouTube takes it down. Enjoy:

New Rule: Atheism is not a religion! Unbaptizes Mitt Romney's Dead Father-In-Law! - YouTube

» New Rules: Atheism Is Not A Religion; Bill Maher Unbaptizes Mitt Romney’s Dead Father-In-Law Liberal Values

Cheers!

p.s. watch for some colorful language, this is from HBO.

---

Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

 

[Nara]

.... Absence of proof for a hypothesis does not automatically make the opposite hypothesis proved.

Dear brother KRS, yes, you are right, but that is not the question here. The atheists are not the ones making fantastic claims. Maher himself says, show me and I am ready to believe. Until then, don't tell us atheism is another belief.

Anyway, I have said all I want to say on this topic here. If there is a god outside time and space, nobody knows. If there is one inside it, it has not bothered to reveal itself in any shape or form. So, from a practical POV, atheism is the only logical, rational position available to us. All other positions are illogical and irrational.

For the members who do not know who this guy Maher is, he is what they call as a shock-jock, making shocking statements against theists,

Bill Maher is a comedian. He has had a long career in several networks. He ran a show called "Politically Incorrect" in ABC. From the title of the show you can imagine he was into controversial topics.

He had a guest called Dinesh D'Souza, originally from Mumbai, a bible thumping ultra-conservative, and he said something to the effect the 9/11 terrorists did not act in a cowardly manner. This was the time when President Bush characterized the 9/11 hijackers as cowards. Maher agreed with Dinesh and added his own comment,

"We have been the cowards. Lobbing cruise missiles from two thousand miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building. Say what you want about it. Not cowardly. You're right."

​

This was seen as outrageous and Bill Maher was fired forthwith from ABC. He then went to HBO and has been hosting a weekly show ever since.

He is what you may call political opinion based comedian. Even though he has a strong liberal leaning, he has some conservative opinions as well, not a lot, just a few, e.g. Israel.

Say what you will about Bill Maher, on people going to "you too" mode and saying atheism is also a religion, he is spot on.

Cheers!

---

Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

 

[KRS]

Dear bro Nara Ji,

You said:

Dear brother KRS, yes, you are right, but that is not the question here. The atheists are not the ones making fantastic claims. Maher himself says, show me and I am ready to believe. Until then, don't tell us atheism is another belief.

Anyway, I have said all I want to say on this topic here. If there is a god outside time and space, nobody knows. If there is one inside it, it has not bothered to reveal itself in any shape or form. So, from a practical POV, atheism is the only logical, rational position available to us. All other positions are illogical and irrational.

Sorry I can not let you get away with it. As I said before, the only logical inference one can make out of the lack of proof of the existence of God is that to say "I do not know God exists or does not exist). Instead, the atheists proclaim boldly that God does not exist and they can not prove that either.

So, it seems to me that if one applies your standard to atheism it is also based on belief and so, is illogical and irrational as well. Sorry!

Regards,
KRS

 

[sarang]

For every maher there are million jeevas who have experienced and seen God and evolved. Shock-jerk may be a more apt epithet!

For the members who do not know who this guy Maher is, he is what they call as a shock-jock, making shocking statements against theists, and while having a quick wit, confusing it with intellect. This is a classic example. He does not think anything of mocking a ritual a family of a dead person, however famous that person was, did for THEIR loved one. If this is what atheists think as a class act, more power to them!

Regards,
KRS

 

[Nara]

....Sorry I can not let you get away with it. As I said before, the only logical inference one can make out of the lack of proof of the existence of God is that to say "I do not know God exists or does not exist). Instead, the atheists proclaim boldly that God does not exist and they can not prove that either.

Dear brother KRS, this shows you are not understanding what I am saying, and those others who share your view also do not understand or may even refuse to understand.

We all are born atheists, i.e. no idea that there is even a construct called god. Then, people come along and insist there is ommacchi. Not knowing any better we nod our head and act as told. This is a form of child abuse on an intellectual level.

Anyway, now, armed with rationality I want to return to that state and say, show me and I will believe. If you say Jesus is god, show me I will believe. If you say Krishna is god, show me I will believe, and so on. If there is a god, that god surely is not Jesus, or Sriman Narayana, or, Shiva, or whatever.

I can go one step further, modern humans have been kicking around for about 100,000 years. Yet this personal god who is supposed to care about human condition has not bothered to conclusively show itself to anybody. At this stage, the only rational stand is to fashion our lives on the basis that there is no personal god waiting to answer our prayers.

Yes, there is still a small, infinitesimally small, chance there is a personal god out there watching, but the likelihood of that is no more than the Russel's celestial teapot circling the sun. I can't prove the teapot doesn't exist, but I reject the claim that not believing in the existence of that teapot is just as irrational as the belief in that circling teapot, the two views are not equivalent.

So, rejecting belief in the gods that are bandied about by various groups of people is the only rational position a rational mind is entitled to. To put one's faith in any one of these gods is irrational.

Cheers!

---

Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

 

[prasad1]

Mr. KRSji,
I know this argument has been going on for ever, and there is no end in sight.
But ultimately it boils down to what is your definition of your faith? No two person will have the same definition, so we should agree to disagree and go on with life. Whether I agree with your definition or not should not change your position and vice-versa.