Impact of Western civilization

[krish44]

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you know vgane ji

in early days of AAP
I ran into manish shisodia during morning walk . He was with 3or 4 fellows . I hugged him warmly as I normally do with people I relate to and said I will vote for him unilaterally even without his asking
He took down my address wanted me to campaign for him
I told him I am a senior citizwen and who would listen to me ,not even my children do . we had a hearty laugh and I could have easily joined AAP

 

[Naina_Marbus]

do jews take these foods ?
why are they considered brilliant? . any hypothesis

IMO, not just foods, but their social environment was probably a major factor. In historical times, they were enslaved by the egyptians, then after being freed, they were being harassed and persecuted by their powerful neighbours, and so, they had to migrate to other parts of the world to escape persecution. For much of their history, wherever they went, they had to face a hostile social environment, except India.

Just to digress a little, every scholar of global Jewish history admits that, in India at least, Jews never encountered the slightest trace of anti-Semitism.

Samuel Hallegua was a Jew whose family had been resident in Cochin for a little more than four centuries. He passed away in Cochin on Thursday Sept. 17, 2009 at the age of 79.

In an interview to The Hindu in July 2008, ( as reported here Jewish community leader passes away in Kochi - The Hindu ), Mr. Hallegua said:
“India has done well to preserve its mosaic culture. It has been more than tolerant. The Santa Cruz High School I went to was run by Jesuit priests. My sister studied in a school which was managed by Italian nuns. But we were never under pressure to shun Judaism. The country accepted us as we have been. I am a proud Indian. I’m also a Hindu in an apolitical sense."
So many times he was asked if he wouldn’t want to go to Israel. But for him, Malayalam was his mother tongue. Home is where his feet were.

Now to get back to what I was saying, The easiest way to survive under hostile circumstances is to evolve into a community that emphasised intellectual accomplishments. It may not be a coincidence that some of the best Jewish intellectuals of the last century, including Einstein, were from Germany where the hatred reached its peak.

 

[krish44]

naina marbus ji
Thanks for your post
My theory is jews did not intermix with other other religeous groups and inherited their better

genes from their parents due to relative isolation from others . Brahmins in india also followed the


same path adopting a holier than thou attitude towards others . They both concentrated on

intellectual pursuits as a religion to the exclusion of everything else .Have you heard of brahmin

king flexing his physical muscles.
Even brahmin boys of today talk of high class academic degrees . they are respected in their

community for that .
Jews were shunned all over the world for being self centred and being descendants of judas

.Even in novels they were projected as selfish demanding their pound of flesh.and despised as

money lenders .

In india , probably they were tolerated .
In cochin , there is a street where they are concentrated . iIt is a tourist place . Most of the

children of this generation have migrated To isreal and western countries . Most houses are locked. one can go to the synagogue . I have been there once

In north east mani pur , there is a group which practises jewish customs and claim to be

descendants one of the lost tribes . Isrealis are ambivalent in their stand towards them .

Some indian jews who went to isreal got pushed to low class jobs by their white counterparts

and forced into new settlements . They are finding it difficult to cope there

There were a couple of jews in bollywood . We had David Abraham , a character artist and Nadira who was the standard vamp in all films. Many jews moved to bombay. I do not how many are left in india

 

[tks]

naina marbus ji
....
.
.

Jews were shunned all over the world for being self centred and being descendants of judas

.Even in novels they were projected as selfish demanding their pound of flesh.and despised as

money lenders .

In india , probably they were tolerated .

.
.
.

I would amend the bold part above (done by me) as follows

"In India they were and are accepted as they are"

Recently there was a historic agreement signed between India's Swami Dayanada Saraswathi and highest leaders of Israel recognizing this acceptance. Toleration is a term used by those that follow biblical religions

http://www.millenniumpeacesummit.org/Hindu-Jewish_Summit_Information.pdf


Jews having been persecuted everywhere in the globe have developed survival methods that has transcended generations. Their emphasis on education and excellence is well known.

I am not sure if this has to do with accomplishments of the Jewish community across the world

 

[Raji Ram]

Thanks for sharing insightful information !
This makes browsing such threads useful for me ..

YES. Sir!! :ranger:

 

[Raji Ram]

There was an interesting observation by the carnatic singer Sri. Vijay Siva. He told the reason for taking less food and avoid onions

and masala on EkAdasi days. It take about three days for the food we eat, to change our mood; the moon influences the human brain;

on new moon and full moon days the moods might swing (you know what) and if diet is not strict on EkAdasi days, it is likely to make

the person more mad!! :crazy:

I don't know whether it is true or not! To be tested and guaranteed!

There is a new definition for the saying, 'muttALukku mooNu vELai mOrunj chAdham'! A fool will become brilliant if he eats rice with

buttermilk thrice a day! Howzaat??
P.S: Since the points are relevant, I am sharing these again in forum! :decision:

 

[krish44]

I would amend the bold part above (done by me) as follows

"In India they were and are accepted as they are"

Recently there was a historic agreement signed between India's Swami Dayanada Saraswathi and highest leaders of Israel recognizing this acceptance. Toleration is a term used by those that follow biblical religions

http://www.millenniumpeacesummit.org/Hindu-Jewish_Summit_Information.pdf


Jews having been persecuted everywhere in the globe have developed survival methods that has transcended generations. Their emphasis on education and excellence is well known.

I am not sure if this has to do with accomplishments of the Jewish community across the world

TKS ji

Traditionally India has been pro arab and never accepted the separate state of israel

jews were treated as outcastes by the political class for last half century.


so to say we accepted local jews with open arms and continue to do so would not be entirely correct .

it woud be more appropriate to say we say we ignored their presence in india since they did not pose a threat or try conversion to their faith

most of them have left the country and are unlikely to remain in india

 

[Brahmanyan]

Raise and Decline of Human Races and its impact on international cultures

Introduction

The impact of events which shaped the universe, solar system and continental split which led to the diversion of culture and races as well as which shaped the growth and decline of human races is a natural phenomena of Law of Nature and Karmic effects.

Universe is full of paradoxical things, unknown myths and realities that shaped the world in the way we live today. Universe after the big bang when it started early formations by solidifying and trying to take a shape due to various astronomical events like formation of stars, formation of nebula (Due to disintegration of stars), formation of earlier planetary systems from the nebula, formation of optical paths has led the universe from the realm of chaos and indiscipline to a planned, disciplined organized way of life and movement. This led to the formation of solar system which in turn lead to the birth of micro organisms in the atmosphere and ameba, singled celled vegetation in the ocean bed.

During Solar System formation at the nascent stage, earth and mars were also fiery gas and dust balls whose rotations made billion of years to take a circular shape like orange with poles.

Even though, Shape of the earth and other planetary systems took a long time to solidarity and a hard -core shape, it made the gravitational pull of the earth and mars to bring debris of asteroids from the asteroid belt (which was laying in the gravitational path between Mars and Jupiter) and Meteorites from other planets and other universal bodies into space and finally into earth and mars orbits.

Dear Ms. Vaithehi,

You have started an informative and serious subject. My experience in this forum is that only a few members evince interest in such serious subjects. How ever please continue the thread.

Origin of universe has many theories. One such theory is written by Immanuel Velikovsky (1895-1979). In his book "Worlds in Collision" he presents a controversial theory based exclusively on ancient myths. Velikovsky proposes that many myths and traditions of ancient peoples and cultures are based on actual events. He states that worldwide global catastrophes of celestial origin, had a profound effect on the lives, beliefs and writings of early mankind. In 1950, Macmillan Company published Immanuel Velikovsky's "Worlds in Collision", which asserts, among many other things, that the planet Venus did not exist until recently. Some 3500 years ago in the guise of a gigantic comet, it grazed Earth a couple of times, after having been ejected from the planet Jupiter some indefinite time earlier, before settling into its current orbit. Velikovsky , a psychiatrist by training, did not base his claims on astronomical evidence and scientific inference or argument. Instead, he argued on the basis of ancient cosmological myths from places as disparate as India and China, Greece and Rome, Assyria and Sumeria, even old myths of Mexicans and Incas.

Among other books written by Velikovsky I found his "Age of chaos " interesting. If you find time, please read these books which opens a new facet of thinking on the origin of Universe.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

TKS ji
Traditionally India has been pro arab and never accepted the separate state of israel
jews were treated as outcastes by the political class for last half century.
so to say we accepted local jews with open arms and continue to do so would not be entirely correct .
it woud be more appropriate to say we say we ignored their presence in india since they did not pose a threat or try conversion to their faith
most of them have left the country and are unlikely to remain in india

According to Hasan Suroor, in The Hindu Dated 15/03/2011:

UPA government's policy towards (Israel and) West Asia is dictated by its anxiety to keep the “politically influential Muslim vote bloc” in good humour, thus forcing it to walk a “tight rope” and refrain from engaging “too deeply” with the region.

This is the recurring assessment sent to headquarters by confidential U.S. Embassy cables, accessed by The Hindu through WikiLeaks. Communications to Washington from senior American diplomats in the New Delhi Embassy constantly portray India's West Asia policy as being hostage to the Muslim factor in domestic politics. In its bid not to antagonise Muslim voters, the cables explained, the government was forced to play down its “strategic relationship” with Israel. In one raw cable dated March 31, 2006, Ambassador David Mulford characterised India's public position on its relations with Israel as “gutless” and lacking in “moral clarity.” “Pragmatism trumps moral clarity in Delhi's Middle East policy.” In Mr. Mulford's view, India had “chosen to remain silent” on ..(Israel) to avoid ruffling Muslim sentiments.” He added: “India will wait until other nations voice their opinions and only then may decide to speak up, if forced or if advantageous to do so, a feature typical of the GOI when it comes to reacting particularly about Middle Eastern issues, given the importance of the Muslim vote bank to the ruling Congress party.”

In a cable dated August 4, 2006 , a senior U.S. diplomat, Geoff Pyatt, wrote that Indian condemnation of Israeli military actions in Lebanon and Gaza was an attempt to “manage” the Muslim anger over the issue, “conveniently overlooking the increasingly tight security and technology relationship between the two countries.” Another cable, dated December 29, 2008 (184997: confidential), attributed India's strong reaction to Israeli attacks in Gaza to “public consumption.” It was in keeping with “India's past practice of publicly condemning Israeli actions for public consumption, yet privately protecting healthy bilateral relations.”

The Embassy cable summed up: “……From time to time Muslim leaders in India organize protests when they feel the GOI (Govt. of India} has not taken a strong enough stance against Israel ….

 

[Naina_Marbus]

As per the report of Israeli news paper ynetnews.com, the greatest level of sympathy towards Israel can be found in India, according to international study on behalf of the Foreign Ministry, Yedioth Ahronoth reported... According to the study, which was unprecedented in scope and was undertaken by an international market research company, 58% of Indian respondents showed sympathy to the Jewish State. The United States came in second, with 56% of American respondents sympathizing with Israel.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

According to Wikipedia, the two countries (India and Israel) enjoy an extensive economic, military and strategic relationship.

India is the largest customer of Israeli military equipment and Israel is the second-largest military partner of India after Russia. As of 2009, the military business between the two nations is worth around US$9 billion. Military and strategic ties between the two nations extend to joint military training and space technology. India is Israel's largest defence market, accounting for almost fifty percent of Israeli sales. India is also the second-largest Asian economic partner of Israel. In 2010, bilateral trade, excluding military sales, stood at US $4.7 billion. In August 2012, India and Israel signed a $50 million academic research agreement. Currently, the two nations are negotiating an extensive bilateral free trade pact, focusing on areas such as information technology, biotechnology and agriculture.

Mahatma Gandhi opposed the creation of Israel as he was against the creation of countries based on religion. Israel was created in 1947, but India, under Gandhi’s influence voted against Israel’s admission in the United Nations in 1949, subsequently recognised Israel as a nation in 1950.

According to Subhash Kapila, the opposition to the establishment of diplomatic relations with Israel during the 1960s and 1970s arose from the Congress Party's desire to appease the Muslims in India as well as to continue the foreign policies of the Nehru and Gandhi era.

After decades of pro-Arab policy, India established official relations with Israel in 1991/1992. Formation of Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) allegedly neglected the sentiments of Indian Muslims and blocking of India by Pakistan from joining OIC is considered to be the cause of diplomatic shift. According to an Israeli Foreign Ministry report, India is the most pro-Israel nation, ahead even of the United States. Analysts believe any Indian condemnation of Israeli actions to be motivated by the UPA government's desire for Muslim votes in India.

 

[tks]

TKS ji

Traditionally India has been pro arab and never accepted the separate state of israel

jews were treated as outcastes by the political class for last half century.


so to say we accepted local jews with open arms and continue to do so would not be entirely correct .

it woud be more appropriate to say we say we ignored their presence in india since they did not pose a threat or try conversion to their faith

most of them have left the country and are unlikely to remain in india

Krishji

The acceptance I have referred to has nothing to do with modern era (post independence) political parties. After the Roman tyranny the Jews went all over the world seeking refuge. The Sanathan Dharma based nation later named as Hindus by outsiders did not persecute Jews and in fact accepted them. Concept of separation of religion and state was already in the 'Hindu DNA' and not needed to be stated and practiced. Even Sri Vivekananda in his his famous Chicago address calls attention to this acceptance.

That is what I was referring to - last 50 years is negligible in the context of 2000 years of behaviour

 

[Naina_Marbus]

So, at age 70, krishji should rather be singing Krishna, Mukunda, Murare, and not distort history.

 

[vgane]

Jews have been persecuted down the centuries! India should welcome Israel with open arms and support the cause of Jewish fraternity!

 

[krish44]

naina marbus ji

we are not prisoners of history

we make up our mind about communities in what happened in near past .

we are products of indian independance era ,
We are not students of indian history singing praises about our distant past

how many jews have you ever met in your life ?

The political class deals with Israel And our attitudes toward jews could be best termed as benign neglect . They are too small a number to think about . we do not ever come across them in day to day life .

because of that we do not exactly hug indian jews . they are not vote banks for politicians .

similarly our attitude towards muslims is not based on what a mughal emperor aurangazeb did . we think of partition and terror from across the border . we do not view issues based on historical context and pride on past glories alone . we live in present and realistically assess our attitudes .and form an opinion.

history is good for students writing competitive exams and becoming civil servants . utility ends with that .to hang on history and engage in self praise , patting our backs is childish

my interest in music by the way is different . I like mehdi hasan ghazals . I would hum that and hug a jew if I come across one for your sake.lol

 

[Naina_Marbus]

naina marbus ji

we are not prisoners of history

we make up our mind about communities in what happened in near past .

Your post reads like the famous Ahmadinejad's holocaust denial, the ex president of Iran claiming World War II holocaust was a fabricated legend. He also made up his mind about communities in what happened in near past.. He also did not want to be a prisoner of history...

 

[krish44]

let us forget about this . we can go on and on . let us talk of other things

I will tell you about an interesting incident in 1999 .I had gone to france on an official trip by airfrance .
My plane had a stop over at tel aviv on the way back . the air hostess made an important announcement .
she told us that security men -of israel will board the plane and we should do whatever they say and not argue . we might be off loaded .
as soon as we landed ,a dozen of them got into the plane menacingly with guns ready . we got offloaded and taken to airport terminal. we got lined up . each one was was thoroughly checked against a data base in the computer terminal . they looked fierce and spent more than five minutes with each passenger . and then they curtly made us sit nearby for the journey back to the aircraft . this normallly is never done to passengers in transit and they are kept in the plane .It was a bit scary . after we took off the hostesses on the plane laughed about it with the look , we told you so .This was my only direct experience with jews in israel
Of course ,
In india of course , Nadira a jew was one of my favorites . She was vamp in all films . She used to appear in Rajkapoor films . I remember her dancing to western music based indian songs and seducing the hero .

I think we can return to our original thread . I have nothing further to contribute to this topic
Bye

 

[sravna]

I agree with Vaithehi Ji that the west is responsible for the corruption of the rest of the world. I agree that there are so many immoral and corrupt people in the east too. But the folks at the west have institutionalized what breeds unrigteous thinking. They have cleverly camoflauged it with what would externally seem to be right actions. Their 1 point agenda is to keep America at the forefront, white people at the forefront and nipping and stifling everything that tries to challenge this status.

 

[tks]

Throughout history of any civilization there have been narrow minded people. I am sure Indian subcontinent has had its share and even continues to have its share today. Usually narrow mindedness is accompanied by inability to abstract and understand since ignorance precedes narrow mindedness.

In 2000 years of history if a small group of people of Jewish faith were able to preserve their identity in any parts of the world without being persecuted that speaks well of the majority culture. This despite existence of narrow minded people in India is even more admirable.

One reason I admire America is that the US constitution strives to create an environment of 'live and let live' in mutual respect. The focus is in striving to create such a society and a more perfect union. Trying to live 'The freedom of speech and separation church and state' represent great progress in human thinking and living.

There are many aspects of US constitution that is aligned with (Sanathana) Dharma.

The treatment of Jews in India speaks to living the ideals of Dharma over centuries. India can strive to create a better place by going back to its roots guided by Dharma.

There can always be knee-jerk reaction to any of the above statements often driven by inability to see the big picture.

 

[Raji Ram]

We went to watch the fire works on July 4th in Boston, on the banks of Charles river. Thousands of people gathered but no one

dashed against the strangers! Of course, the lovers and wedded couples showed public display of affection but no stranger was

disturbed. After the event in the night, everyone dispersed without disturbing others and boarded the metro rails in an organized

way; something our people can never learn, imho! Even if an empty bus arrives at the bus stop, the ten persons who are waiting
will dash against each other to get their seat! :bump2:

This is what we enjoyed watching: Boston Fireworks 2011 - Independence Day - Fourth of July

We can learn a few good habits from the people of the U S of A. :thumb:

 

[tbs]

hi


We can learn a few good habits from the people of the U S of A.

the helping/understanding is important....human value is important....humanity is important......in USA...every one respect ladies/

senior citizens in the malll....we can see even strangers open doors for strangers.....in any mall entrance in america...ppl open

door for others...atleast helping kids/ladies/senior citizen...sometime a stranger shows a human touch in unknown places....

this is very lack in our own country... we have to learn how to respect human beings...sometimes in USA...dogs /cats

respected more than human beings...lol

 

[biswa]

Right, blame the white people for everything.

Never mind that the white people taught you about steam engine, internal combustion engine, cars, railways, planes, postal service, banks, electricity, laws of physics, laws of chemistry, modern medicine, the legal system, the computer and the internet.

Instead of of all that, just travel by bullock cart, praise the virtues of curd rice diet, and complain about sour grapes.

 

[krish44]

Right, blame the while people for everything.

Never mind that the white people taught you about steam engine, internal combustion engine, cars, railways, planes, postal service, banks, electricity, laws of physics, laws of chemistry, modern medicine, the legal system, the computer and the internet.

Instead of of all that, just travel by bullock cart, praise the virtues of curd rice diet, and complain about sour grapes.

biswaji
we were ruled by the whites who took over our lands and means of living and made us second class citizens in our own country .

we have a deep suspicion of anything from the west

earlier it was political power over us ,now it is economic domination .

Gutter practises of the west -mortgage crisis , invasion of islamic nations with oil for their resources, creating religious hatred between religions , drugs are all contributions of western culture and countries .
we are unable to live in peace because of them . we do not know what we will face tomorrow .
western nations deserve china . they know how to tackle them.
they might have contributed to the world by industrial revolution and science and technology . their negative contributions in recent years far outweigh positive ones

 

[krish44]

hi


We can learn a few good habits from the people of the U S of A.

the helping/understanding is important....human value is important....humanity is important......in USA...every one respect ladies/

senior citizens in the malll....we can see even strangers open doors fo
r strangers.....in any mall entrance in america...ppl open

door for others...atleast helping kids/ladies/senior citizen...sometime a stranger shows a human touch in unknown places....

this is very lack in our own country... we have to learn how to respect human beings...sometimes in USA...dogs /cats

respected more than human beings...lol

definitely we can learn a few good habits from them as you have mentioned
what US does in in gulf , asian ,african countries is not acceptable

 

[biswa]

Of course, I will be the first to say that being white does not automatically mean being good. But the contributions of the western civilizations to the advance of the human race cannot be ignored. Contributions by Hindus pale in comparison.

Of course we never fail to remind everyone that we invented the big zero.