India’s Rape Crisis Undermines the Country

[C RAVI]

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As Tolstoy says - all happy families are alike; but every unhappy family is unhappy in a unique way'

There are so many studies by erudite people. Close to 90% of the rapes are done by the males the victim knew.

Blaming the victim is not an issue here; it the girl's sensitivity to her surroundings, people and environment. Advising girls to be more careful in all areas - dress, company, time, and surroundings (party, lonely park/road etc.)

All call centre and IT companies which employ girls working in all shifts and provide door to door transport have strict instructions to be followed - a lady cannot be the last person to be dropped or the first person to be picked up, do nit board if a new driver or taxi turns up, not to change the vehicle at the last minute to go somewhere else, contact colleague or office when in doubt). Despite these guidelines, rapes do occur, and in every instance reported, the lady has violated one or more of the instructions.

In public places one finds warning boards - beware of pickpockets and protect your valuables. Never pickpockets will be arrested or prosecuted. The potential victim has to take care. Wouldn't you hide the purse from the back pocket to some other safe pocket in a crowded place?

Well said, Shri Sarang!

 

[tks]

As Tolstoy says - all happy families are alike; but every unhappy family is unhappy in a unique way'

There are so many studies by erudite people. Close to 90% of the rapes are done by the males the victim knew.

Blaming the victim is not an issue here; it the girl's sensitivity to her surroundings, people and environment. Advising girls to be more careful in all areas - dress, company, time, and surroundings (party, lonely park/road etc.)

All call centre and IT companies which employ girls working in all shifts and provide door to door transport have strict instructions to be followed - a lady cannot be the last person to be dropped or the first person to be picked up, do nit board if a new driver or taxi turns up, not to change the vehicle at the last minute to go somewhere else, contact colleague or office when in doubt). Despite these guidelines, rapes do occur, and in every instance reported, the lady has violated one or more of the instructions.

In public places one finds warning boards - beware of pickpockets and protect your valuables. Never pickpockets will be arrested or prosecuted. The potential victim has to take care. Wouldn't you hide the purse from the back pocket to some other safe pocket in a crowded place?

Sri Sarang

One can never be too careful.. If a person presents an opportunity they become a victim since the aggressor always selects victim based on opportunity. This applies to small crime to large crime (and not specific to rape situations only)

The main debating point seem to be how dress *also* plays a role in creating or improving an opportunity to be a victim of rape. Some feel that a woman attract more attention with a 'skimpy' dress thereby making herself more vulnerable.

If a person is well protected allowing no opportunity the kind of dress she wears should makes no difference. If dress is modest but opportunity is created by doing non-common-sense things then they are increasing the odds of becoming a victim.

The perceived morality of a woman (perhaps by dress for some people ) need not be a factor at all. The rapists do not reward the perceived immoral woman with rape. They are on the prowl for a victim who happens to be available.

The debate is about the existence of a logical connection to dress. It is not about what millions of non-victims think. It is not about what some males pontificate by their intuition.

If you are able to make a logical connection then this debate will close .. the other way it will close is when people feel they are stuck to their positions and beaten a dead horse a bit too long

Regards

 

[kunjuppu]

I personally consider that if foreign tourists completely stop coming to any square feet of India, it will do much good for some vulnerable sections of our female population. These foreign tourists most generally come here for sex-tourism under one guise or another and it is our young boys and girls who become the foreign exchange earners in this trade. Perhaps, Thailand & Cambodia have been able to clamp down to some extent on their sex-tourism, which was rampant in those countries even one decade or so ago.

dear sangom,

if you dont mind sir, i would like to dispute your stand re tourism.

first of all, sex tourism, i think, happens within india too. and in the overall picture, i hope that in india, as even in thailand, sex tourism though despicable, amounts to only a small percentage. to completely banish tourism, fearing STD is akin, i think, to throwing the baby with the bath water.

let me explain. tourism, is one of the most lucrative 'green' industries. properly managed and efficiently marketed, it can provide jobs to millions, bring in loads of money to the coffers of both the state and locals, and most of all, spread a good view and opinion of our country.

for all this to happen, toursim has to be organized and safe. because, there is intense competition for the tourist dollar yen euro, because it is so easily earned, with so little an outlay. kerala has done well to market itself as god's own country - and has introduced the concept of navarakkizhi and other such oil based treatments, in a large and simplified scale to the world over. such that the oil drop method of relaxation has been adopted the world over.

no matter what our prejudices against countries may be and no matter how we manage our economies, the bottom line, is that the people have to work and earn enough - atleast to provide the basic food shelter and clothing. with this in goal, a smart society would avail itself of all the opportunities provided by its own history and geography, and harness it, to the basis of a healthy and flourishing tourist industry.

when i was in kasi, i was disheartened by the dirt filth and the ominipresent cow making mess all over. a concentrated effort to clean up old kasi and spruce it, will make the old terraced streets on par with the best of medieval europe as presented in italy or spain. why dont we clean up ganges instead of polluting it more and more, day by day. is it the fault of the tourist, that this happens?

no dear sangom, even the most cynical of communists, fidel castro, has realized the money earning and goodwill potential of tourism. i have been to cuba and found the pristine beaches and friendly people..more than compensate for the absence of many western style conveniences. we, endowed with modern technology, and ancient history, i think, haven't even scratched the surface of the potential of tourist industry - not only from abroad, but from within india itself.

 

[sangom]

dear sangom,

if you dont mind sir, i would like to dispute your stand re tourism.

first of all, sex tourism, i think, happens within india too. and in the overall picture, i hope that in india, as even in thailand, sex tourism though despicable, amounts to only a small percentage. to completely banish tourism, fearing STD is akin, i think, to throwing the baby with the bath water.

let me explain. tourism, is one of the most lucrative 'green' industries. properly managed and efficiently marketed, it can provide jobs to millions, bring in loads of money to the coffers of both the state and locals, and most of all, spread a good view and opinion of our country.

for all this to happen, toursim has to be organized and safe. because, there is intense competition for the tourist dollar yen euro, because it is so easily earned, with so little an outlay. kerala has done well to market itself as god's own country - and has introduced the concept of navarakkizhi and other such oil based treatments, in a large and simplified scale to the world over. such that the oil drop method of relaxation has been adopted the world over.

no matter what our prejudices against countries may be and no matter how we manage our economies, the bottom line, is that the people have to work and earn enough - atleast to provide the basic food shelter and clothing. with this in goal, a smart society would avail itself of all the opportunities provided by its own history and geography, and harness it, to the basis of a healthy and flourishing tourist industry.

when i was in kasi, i was disheartened by the dirt filth and the ominipresent cow making mess all over. a concentrated effort to clean up old kasi and spruce it, will make the old terraced streets on par with the best of medieval europe as presented in italy or spain. why dont we clean up ganges instead of polluting it more and more, day by day. is it the fault of the tourist, that this happens?

no dear sangom, even the most cynical of communists, fidel castro, has realized the money earning and goodwill potential of tourism. i have been to cuba and found the pristine beaches and friendly people..more than compensate for the absence of many western style conveniences. we, endowed with modern technology, and ancient history, i think, haven't even scratched the surface of the potential of tourist industry - not only from abroad, but from within india itself.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I think you have not followed the trend of the posts, or you have deliberately chosen to isolate a few of my sentences and attempted a "short essay" regarding the benefits of tourism, much like a school essay but with your inimitable style.

The point of issue between Mr. Prasad & myself was not that. Prasad sort of said that if rape victims are found fault with/blamed, then the tourist traffic to Indian destinations will stop almost completely and people will suffer economically. He said "I guess no tourist comes to some corner of India, and tourism does not impact personal pocketbooks." It was my response to this, from which you have picked a few sentences - out of context - and essayed on the pros of tourism.

The point is that tourism is not an unmixed blessing for India. This country is a "cheap" destination and so even the lower middle class, blue collar workers from abroad come here as tourists and satiate all their sex and lust here. May be just as even the radioactive waste from the developed countries get shipped to countries in Africa under false labels, these western people come here, satisfy their pent-up desires and go back, as pristine, cultured westerners who can afford to keep their raped women on some high pedestal or even instal memorial stones like the "hero stones" of ancient Dravidian country!!

I was merely trying to explain these aspects of tourism. And, for a highly disorganized country like India (a functioning anarchy), may be we can get along without this kind of tourists and tourism.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I think you have not followed the trend of the posts, or you have deliberately chosen to isolate a few of my sentences and attempted a "short essay" regarding the benefits of tourism, much like a school essay but with your inimitable style.

The point of issue between Mr. Prasad & myself was not that. Prasad sort of said that if rape victims are found fault with/blamed, then the tourist traffic to Indian destinations will stop almost completely and people will suffer economically. He said "I guess no tourist comes to some corner of India, and tourism does not impact personal pocketbooks." It was my response to this, from which you have picked a few sentences - out of context - and essayed on the pros of tourism.

The point is that tourism is not an unmixed blessing for India. This country is a "cheap" destination and so even the lower middle class, blue collar workers from abroad come here as tourists and satiate all their sex and lust here. May be just as even the radioactive waste from the developed countries get shipped to countries in Africa under false labels, these western people come here, satisfy their pent-up desires and go back, as pristine, cultured westerners who can afford to keep their raped women on some high pedestal or even instal memorial stones like the "hero stones" of ancient Dravidian country!!

I was merely trying to explain these aspects of tourism. And, for a highly disorganized country like India (a functioning anarchy), may be we can get along without this kind of tourists and tourism.

dear sangom,

i do confess, that in the context of this thread, i picked out one para of your numerous post. point taken and i plead guilty.

apart from some (ig)noble effort at deflecting the circular movement of the past few posts, my intention, was to point out, that 'tourism' appears to be an innocent bystander inadvertently sucked into the arguements here.

all i wanted was to emphasize, that true 'tourism' is indeed a noble nature preserving exploitatoin of god given gifts of land and weather, for the benefit of the untrained masses. the emphasis here, is the spread of goodwill through contacts, and in the process, earn a livelihood. all it takes is just good manners and hospitality.

again your point, re its relevance, in a disfunctional democracy like india, is well taken. thank you.

 

[tks]

In an increasingly interdependent global village attracting new investments so as to sell to the whole world will benefit everyone. With many people of Indian origin in other countries there is a great opportunity to attract the right set of tourists for the right reason (e.g., not those that come to leverage the sex trade already existing in the country).

Perception matters greatly. While the rape crisis may not be any worse than any other country the lack of proper response by those in power has made India look like a lawless place.

Some of my class mates are in very high positions in India and I am choosing to not names so as to not reveal identities. They are very straightforward in how they lead their lives. Without taking any bribes or bribing anyone they have made to top of certain government institutions. But their salaries are pathetic though the perks are outstanding. Their savings do not amount to anything once they retire. This kind of disparity breeds corruption at ordinary levels.

Today to get anything done by anyone wanting to set up a infrastructure item like say power production plants it will cost over 10% of the total cost in bribes alone. No person of integrity really wants to deal with this level of corruption.

The cops are usually thought of as corrupt. I was in Delhi area recently and the rental car was pulled over for some violation supposedly. The driver went in and came back. He said they demanded Rs 200 and was let go. I wanted to fight this but this driver asked me to not do anything stupid and he said this politely.

A large number of poor people are not able to get even a meal properly in a day. If the country is further isolated by the perceptions of lawlessness and corruption as a way of life, the one that suffers is the mass of people who suffer today and will be pushed down further.

While there is not a quick solution the first step is to acknowledge the severity of the problem.

The country has large number of relatively well paid people working in call centers pretending to be a westerner with a western name, and attempted accent. They live this duplicate life most of their waking hours. This must affect how they act once they are done with their work hours. While investments have flowed to create new call centers this trade actually lowers the self esteem of all those who work because they have to pretend someone they are not all day.

We also do not need industries like pizza hut in my view.

To attract the right investments the country has to be perceived as safe at a minimum and highlight the resourcefulness of Indian people.

My children love visiting India and used to do so every year when they were in primary through high school.

They want to serve India by working there and have lofty goals after they complete their graduate schools. They are born in America but love all they know about India - though they are not shielded from poverty in India. They are not exposed to any experience involving bribes.

I do not feel comfortable in their quest since India has now joined the ranks of African nations in terms of lawlessness and corruption. I do not think it is safe anymore.

The cancer of corruption has to be arrested - this is the new moral imperative for all people of India and Indian origin.
It is not about dress of a woman or about people wanting to ape the west.

Problems of rape will be resolved once the corruption is dealt with. Tourism and investments will flourish then and life for every Indians will improve.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. TKS,
Very good post.
I sometimes wonder why the local Indians (at least the educated living to suburbia) do not want tourists coming to India. The hospitality industry and retail industry welcome tourists. In Indian rural population is lot more hospitable than this so called yuppies.

It is obvious from this site that Indian generally are not nice people, they are jealous of others, and are mean to strangers.
I know one member here will blame the NRI and westerners, but in my travel I encounter very courteous people in most of the west, including Latin America. Even when language is a problem they go out of their way to help strangers.

I remember 30 years ago travelling Indian roads, people were very helpful. This was before maps and GPS, people will get up from seat and walk you to your destination. What happened to that India?

 

[tks]

Mr. TKS,
Very good post.
I sometimes wonder why the local Indians (at least the educated living to suburbia) do not want tourists coming to India. The hospitality industry and retail industry welcome tourists. In Indian rural population is lot more hospitable than this so called yuppies.

It is obvious from this site that Indian generally are not nice people, they are jealous of others, and are mean to strangers.
I know one member here will blame the NRI and westerners, but in my travel I encounter very courteous people in most of the west, including Latin America. Even when language is a problem they go out of their way to help strangers.

I remember 30 years ago travelling Indian roads, people were very helpful. This was before maps and GPS, people will get up from seat and walk you to your destination. What happened to that India?

During my visits with my family to many parts of India I always found very friendly and genuine people in the rural places and in villages. Somehow the middle class and 'upper' middle class families living in places like Chennai predominantly seem to be the one with all kinds of (inferiority) complex with an approach to life that is filled with seeming contradictions and hypocrisy. They are happy to put down the west with an assumed air of superiority while planning for their children (and for themselves ) to visit the west!.

I usually argue with them that they should be grateful to people like Bill Gates not because he is donating his earnings but because with the PC revolution he championed he has helped to unlock the potential of a large number of people allowing them to contribute and earn a better living. In fact every gadget most middle class families use today is a result of work done by people in the west. The modern India has made little contributions and the only thing they can do is to criticize those that have contributed.

This forum is not possible without advances in Internet and web technologies.

Dale Carnegie had an adage - an unfair criticism is a disguised complement

I find that most people in India that I come across in personal life are still being very helpful and nice.

I just don't like dealing with institutionalized corruption or deal with certain duplicitous people living in cities like Chennai.

A friend of mine and I had this great idea to invest in a novel idea that will bring the benefit of IT to unleash the potential of the unorganized sector. It was intended to be win-win - actually a for-profit enterprise. After initial attempts we found that we are not equipped to deal with the mess. We were ready to lose our money and time but not in dealing with corrupt fellows.

The reason for the country's decline with Adharma as the way of life is actually due to systematic destruction of those entrusted to 'think' in a society.

While I do not believe that in today's world birth alone entitles one to be called a Brahmins, systematic destruction of this 'class' is having consequences. Birth brahmins in many instances may have been Guna Brahmins too. People like Rajaji or UV Swaminatha Iyer were compassionate people.

In today's world, class of Guna brahmins have to be re-constructed from other castes for the country to improve.

Right now it is predominantly பொறுக்கி's world -with corruption and lawlessness

 

[sarang]

One line answer is 'ask the rapist' who is the perpetrator. All rapists of the violent or suddent type claim that they were influenced by the dresses worn (not necessarily by the unfortunate victim), tv or movie scenes and influence of alcohol. This is what the news reports say. Planned rapes by neighbours, relatives, bosses may have different reasons.

Another way of looking at this not to judge based on single or highly publicised cases, but study the link between rape frequency and changes in social norms. What was the frequency in UK or USA or liberal sweden during 18th, 19th,20th and 21st centuries.

Sri Sarang

One can never be too careful.. If a person presents an opportunity they become a victim since the aggressor always selects victim based on opportunity. This applies to small crime to large crime (and not specific to rape situations only)

The main debating point seem to be how dress *also* plays a role in creating or improving an opportunity to be a victim of rape. Some feel that a woman attract more attention with a 'skimpy' dress thereby making herself more vulnerable.

If a person is well protected allowing no opportunity the kind of dress she wears should makes no difference. If dress is modest but opportunity is created by doing non-common-sense things then they are increasing the odds of becoming a victim.

The perceived morality of a woman (perhaps by dress for some people ) need not be a factor at all. The rapists do not reward the perceived immoral woman with rape. They are on the prowl for a victim who happens to be available.

The debate is about the existence of a logical connection to dress. It is not about what millions of non-victims think. It is not about what some males pontificate by their intuition.

If you are able to make a logical connection then this debate will close .. the other way it will close is when people feel they are stuck to their positions and beaten a dead horse a bit too long

Regards

 

[tks]

One line answer is 'ask the rapist' who is the perpetrator. All rapists of the violent or suddent type claim that they were influenced by the dresses worn (not necessarily by the unfortunate victim), tv or movie scenes and influence of alcohol. This is what the news reports say. Planned rapes by neighbours, relatives, bosses may have different reasons.

Another way of looking at this not to judge based on single or highly publicised cases, but study the link between rape frequency and changes in social norms. What was the frequency in UK or USA or liberal sweden during 18th, 19th,20th and 21st centuries.

Rapists being a criminal and hence his excuses cannot count unless there are serious studies. Even if he is influenced by the dress to commit a violent crime often involving beating (as opposed to visit a prostitute) it was still possible only by opportunity. Dress is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition.

The studies done by people who investigate all their life tell a different story. That all crimes of this kind are due to opportunity.

Study of Rape frequency to changes in social norms is hard to study since we did not have means of communications that exist today.

In fact studies of this kind point to surprisingly a safer world overall - it is just that the news travels fast these days.
I dont have ready reference to this but I heard a talk where the speaker made this point with data about overall *rate* of violence in the world being lower compared to previous centuries.

 

[renuka]

I have solid proof that clothing does not make a difference when it comes to men looking at women.

I had gone to a water amusement park 2 days ago with my son and husband.

I did not swim cos I was not feeling too well and since the weather was too hot I decided to wear a long sleeved Kameez over a loose flowing pants and put up my hair in a bun and wore a wide brimmed hat and wore sunglasses since it was hot.

There were many people who were not swimming dressed like me too cos the weather was very hot.

Ok..so technically I was all covered up and only my face was visible.

Ok this place is full of foreigners..I saw some people looking like TBs there too..the guys were wearing swim shorts with their Poonal too.

Ok lots of middle eastern women come there too and they come fully covered in Burkha and do not swim.

Ok back to my story...I was waiting at the swimming area along with other covered up women reading a book and I could not help notice many men looking at me..majority of them were from middle east and giving me so many smiles too.

So I was thinking "LOL! I must write this in Forum...I was covered head to toe and still guys were looking"

And just to add..many girls from foreign countries were dresses in bikinis...no guy raped anyone in the water park and neither did I see any guy running from the pool to the bathroom as some members claim!LOL

 

[sangom]

... My children love visiting India and used to do so every year when they were in primary through high school.

They want to serve India by working there and have lofty goals after they complete their graduate schools. They are born in America but love all they know about India - though they are not shielded from poverty in India.

...Right now it is predominantly பொறுக்கி's world -with corruption and lawlessness

Children of பொறுக்கிs who have gone to other countries to 'பொறுக்கு’fy, love the original பொறுக்கிs' country; natural. Birds of the same feather tend to flock together!!

 

[prasad1]

Feeling "hurt" by the Delhi gangrape and other recent incidents of crimes against women, President Pranab Mukherjee today said a society which cannot provide security and dignity to its women is not worth considering a civilised one.


He lamented the "deprivity of human nature" as he laid the foundation stone for 'Nirbhaya Bhavan', a complex to be built in the memory of 23-year-old girl who was gangraped and brutalised here on December 16, last year.


"The barbaric acts perpetrated on women is not just a matter of law and force, but also of the society's apathetic attitude. Whenever a woman is subjected to violence, people around show their apathy and aloofness. It is depravity of human nature," Mukherjee said.


"The recent cases of violence on women indicate that we have lost our civilizational values and a society which cannot provide respect, dignity and security to its women is not worth being called a civilized society," he added.

 

[palindrome]

Mr. Ravi,
Have you ever analysed yourself, you are not capable of that (you know what others think of you).
So we are asked to dress modestly in the temple because you will get raped otherwise!!! is that what you are implying. I did not think even you can be that bad, oh well live and learn.

Visited some beautiful temples, fascinating sculptures of males and females. The ancients dressed well, i feel, and their sense of clothing was like the saree -- alluring in a very sublime aesthetic way. Now i wonder how many of those females got raped for their clothing which will (of course) register in the rapist male's brain as ''provocative'' (the sadist will of course blame it on her clothing, no matter what she wore or did not wear -- he can never admit nor understand the prob is actually with him).

As an aside, am able to appreciate the difference between agama temple cultures, and the institutionalized misogyny of so-called 'vedic' dharmashastra culture. Ahimsa, of course, belonged to the Agama culture.

 

[palindrome]

I personally consider that if foreign tourists completely stop coming to any square feet of India, it will do much good for some vulnerable sections of our female population. These foreign tourists most generally come here for sex-tourism under one guise or another and it is our young boys and girls who become the foreign exchange earners in this trade. Perhaps, Thailand & Cambodia have been able to clamp down to some extent on their sex-tourism, which was rampant in those countries even one decade or so ago.

How about sex-tourism in Kasi with young widows and old women abandoned there? How about sex tourism in kumbh melas? How about sex tourism all over india with new age technologies (my mother was telling she used to get SMSs advertizing various services, amongst which some were escort services...she contacted the mobile service provider to stop sending unsolicited SMSs but alas it was not possible).

I saw foreign tourists in droves in thanjavur big temple and in srirangam. Surely, this country has unlimited revenue potential with tourism. Please do not imagine all tourists are "like that" (as you think) because you think that way.

 

[kunjuppu]

How about sex-tourism in Kasi with young widows and old women abandoned there? How about sex tourism in kumbh melas? How about sex tourism all over india with new age technologies (my mother was telling she used to get SMSs advertizing various services, amongst which some were escort services...she contacted the mobile service provider to stop sending unsolicited SMSs but alas it was not possible).

I saw foreign tourists in droves in thanjavur big temple and in srirangam. Surely, this country has unlimited revenue potential with tourism. Please do not imagine all tourists are "like that" (as you think) because you think that way.

when wears a spectalces pink in colour, does not the whole world appear pink?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

The Indian Government has taken the firtst steps in combating the rapist menace. While it is difficult to identify which man (men) is (are) likely to commit the criminal act of raping, the first tactic is at least to attempt to protect the women from the men. It is a necessary step in the interim; rape culture doesn't disappear overnight.

Here is what an American woman has to say for women tourists traveling alone.

On Monday, June 3rd, a 30-year-old American woman was allegedly gang-raped in northern India after she was picked up by three men in a truck while hitchhiking back to her guesthouse in the resort town of Manali. That could have been me. A few years ago, I got a lift with strangers from Manali to Dharamsala.

Read furtherhere

There are 20 tips offered by this American woman:

1. Don't be afraid to walk on by. It is OK to ignore, walk away from/not engage in conversation/explanation/argument. If you are called rude for not stopping/talking/buying, know this is a tactic and keep moving.

2. Just say no. Do not let anyone push you into committing to anything. It is OK decline invitations from hawkers, tour guides, strangers who invite you to their house, or car; or other backpackers who want to share a room, a joint or get you to go somewhere with them. You can always change your mind later.

3. Never be so far away and alone with someone you don't know that no one could hear you scream/yell. Don't be afraid to scream, shout and draw attention if you need to escape. Shaming/Embarrassing someone can be a powerful defensive tool.

4. Look at the situation you are about to enter critically. Does it seem safe? What is your gut telling you? Are you agreeing because you don't want to offend or seem uncool? This is your life. Protect it

5. Dress inconspicuously - no flashy clothes or bags. You don't want to look wealthy or sexy unless you are staying at an international five star hotel with good security.

6. Dress according to the modesty code of the region. I don't care what you wear in the US/UK/Israel/Denmark, or that it is your right to dress as you like anywhere in the world. That message has not yet been received in some corners of the globe. If you want to be safe and not attract unwanted attention follow the modesty code of the area.

7. Wear cheap and easily removable jewelry in case you get robbed. You don't want to loose a finger or get punched in the face over a ring, even if it was your great grandmother's. Leave it at home.

8. Email home frequently and let them know your whereabouts. If you are going into the jungle or on a trek, let someone at home know the name and contact info of the tour company or person you are going with, how long the trip is, and when you expect to be in touch next.

9. Don't get into involved debates with other nationalities about your home country's geopolitics. Rookie mistake. You, especially Americans and Brits, are going hear about your country's abhorrent military and colonial history. Side step it and move on. Unless you have a PhD in this particular region's history, the more you talk, the more you will; a.) Piss people off; b.) Sound like an idiot because you had no idea your county did really terrible things to theirs; c.) Feel terrible and apologetic and be an easy target for scoundrels.

10. Don't idolize "the culture" you are visiting, but treat it with respect. No one culture, ideology or nationality or tribe has all the answers. Buddhists fight. Not all Hindus are enlightened. Masai warriors want cellphones. Kids who live 20 miles by yak to the nearest village listen to Ozzy. You are not in a museum. Do not tell people that you wish their culture wouldn't change. Your country is not the only one that deserves indoor plumbing and electricity.

11. People are people all over the world. Some saintly, some sociopathic and many in between. Treating people as a monolithic "culture" handicaps you because you can't see past the stereotype.

12. If someone sexually harasses you, get away from them fast.

13. If you have a serious problem or are very sick, go to an International hotel chain or an older woman. They are both generally safe, and you can pay off the hotel credit card bill later.

14. Be judicious and courteous with your photo taking. Many people don't want their photo taken for personal or religious reasons. Respect that. You are not here to document your trip for friends back home. Keep some precious moments as memories. Stop snapping and live it.

15. Keep your money and/or keys pinned inside your bra.

16. Walk with confidence and purpose.

17. If you are out alone make sure you stay in public areas and can get back to your hotel/guesthouse/hostel before nightfall.

18. Bring a ring that looks like a basic wedding band. If you feel threatened, say you have to go to meet your husband. Cheesy and way not feminist, but it works.

19. Do not get into a car with strangers unless it is an absolute last resort.

20. Don't bring a lot of crap. A few basic outfits that can be washed in a sink, layers, bug spray, sunscreen, shampoo OR conditioner, moisturizer (doubles as styling gel), and a first-aid kit. That's all you need.
From

Road Tested Advice for Women Traveling Alone - It Ain't no Eat, Pray, Love

 

[zebra16]

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT HAVE ANY NOTIONS THAT BRAHMINS ARE SOMEHOW SUPERIOR TO OTHER VARNAS AND JATIS.

This declaimer has been necessitated as some posters, although they quote A G Gardiner without even waiting for the proverbial drop of the hat, have severe comprehension disabilities and are prone to mouth inanities.

The notion that no varNa or jAti is intrinsically superior or inferior to others does not preclude me from voicing my opinions on the posts of the misguided to turn this forum into a local chapter of dravidian supremacy forum. So rebuttals when deemed necessary will flow in.

i used to cringe when my uncle used to chant the purusha shuktham daily. he knew. and he knew that i knew the meaning of the origins of the groups of folks, as defined in PS. my uncle fanatically believed in it. since i had such a high opinion of him, outside of this, and we owed him so much, i kept quiet. but how can anyone believe, that one group was born out of vishnu's head, and others out of stomach, and others out of the feet...or something like that?

surely enough, those that are supposed to be born out of the nether parts, are not going to be pleased. what is strange, is that if you are brought up in a mixed neighbourhood, you never hear of such things. it is only when one is fed with solely casteist propaganda, one's mind changes to the perversion of human concept of fairness by fairness, the way i udnerstand, if i put in the other's place, it is acceptable to me.

KURAI KUDAM KOOTHADUM

Unless one has self poured molten lead into ones own ears, he would also have heard of the invocations both in lughu nyAsam and mahA nyasm, which inter alia contains the following :

"prajanane brahmA tishTathu"
"pAdayOH vishNuH tishTathu"
pArshavayOH SivA-Sankaru tishTethAm"

So much for their knowledge which they seek to tom-tom here.

Brahmin bashers are strongly advised to seek the opinion of dravidian supremacists and revert back in this forum with their new found meaning and interpretations

but one thing is for sure..when a third party spies both a pappaan or a paambu, you should bolt like your kundi is on fire...

A new high in the scum-lord scholarship !!!!!;

[COLOR=#DA7911 !important]for example[/COLOR], in shakespearean times, to be termed a 'fool' was a complement, and i would like to term the gentleman korangu of the shudra thread, as a fool, and he can treat it as a complement a la 16th century, or of today. i leave it upto him

ONE WHO KNOWS NOT AND KNOWS NOT THAT HE KNOWS NOT IS A FOOL, SHUN HIM

No doubt the use of fool here is Shakesperean

 

[auh]

I have solid proof that clothing does not make a difference when it comes to men looking at women.

I had gone to a water amusement park 2 days ago with my son and husband.

I did not swim cos I was not feeling too well and since the weather was too hot I decided to wear a long sleeved Kameez over a loose flowing pants and put up my hair in a bun and wore a wide brimmed hat and wore sunglasses since it was hot.

There were many people who were not swimming dressed like me too cos the weather was very hot.

Ok..so technically I was all covered up and only my face was visible.

Ok this place is full of foreigners..I saw some people looking like TBs there too..the guys were wearing swim shorts with their Poonal too.

Ok lots of middle eastern women come there too and they come fully covered in Burkha and do not swim.

Ok back to my story...I was waiting at the swimming area along with other covered up women reading a book and I could not help notice many men looking at me..majority of them were from middle east and giving me so many smiles too.

So I was thinking "LOL! I must write this in Forum...I was covered head to toe and still guys were looking"

And just to add..many girls from foreign countries were dresses in bikinis...no guy raped anyone in the water park and neither did I see any guy running from the pool to the bathroom as some members claim!LOL

Well well well.

So many men looked at you, including those from middle east, and gave so many smiles too, even when you were covered from head to toe. So?

Perhaps next time when you visit such areas you can put a poster that rapes in water parks in public places should happen before you, and also when guys run from the pool to the bathroom, they have to report the reason and also the details of what they did, with proof, of course.

 

[auh]

when wears a spectalces pink in colour, does not the whole world appear pink?

Should I then say to you - "Please remove your spectalces"?

 

[tks]

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT HAVE ANY NOTIONS THAT BRAHMINS ARE SOMEHOW SUPERIOR TO OTHER VARNAS AND JATIS.

This declaimer has been necessitated as some posters, although they quote A G Gardiner without even waiting for the proverbial drop of the hat, have severe comprehension disabilities and are prone to mouth inanities.

The notion that no varNa or jAti is intrinsically superior or inferior to others does not preclude me from voicing my opinions on the posts of the misguided to turn this forum into a local chapter of dravidian supremacy forum. So rebuttals when deemed necessary will flow in.



KURAI KUDAM KOOTHADUM

Unless one has self poured molten lead into ones own ears, he would also have heard of the invocations both in lughu nyAsam and mahA nyasm, which inter alia contains the following :

"prajanane brahmA tishTathu"
"pAdayOH vishNuH tishTathu"
pArshavayOH SivA-Sankaru tishTethAm"

So much for their knowledge which they seek to tom-tom here.

Brahmin bashers are strongly advised to seek the opinion of dravidian supremacists and revert back in this forum with their new found meaning and interpretations



A new high in the scum-lord scholarship !!!!!;




ONE WHO KNOWS NOT AND KNOWS NOT THAT HE KNOWS NOT IS A FOOL, SHUN HIM

No doubt the use of fool here is Shakesperean

Sri Narayan



In some threads there are informative posts, tasteful posts even of opposing points of view , and occasionally humorous. I choose to respond to some of those if I have something to say and have the time at that moment.

There are also posts that tend to be coming out of sheer ignorance filling the definition 'they dont know what they dont know' . If this is coupled with an intent in a post to cause mischief as evidenced by brining extraneous information to a topic that is a deadly combination.

Such posts cannot be dignified by a response.


Having shared my general views I applaud the way you have expressed your thoughts


Regards

 

[palindrome]

Unless one has self poured molten lead into ones own ears, he would also have heard of the invocations both in lughu nyAsam and mahA nyasm, which inter alia contains the following :

"prajanane brahmA tishTathu"
"pAdayOH vishNuH tishTathu"
pArshavayOH SivA-Sankaru tishTethAm"

What has Rudram laghunyAsam of krishna yajurveda got to do with Dharmashastra rules? First prove that your Dharmashastra rules (including pouring molten lead into ears) was derived from vedas or based on vedas.

Addition: The above was not meant for just Zebra. It is meant for everyone who claim dharmashastras are based on vedas. Even Kanchi Paramacharya claimed so. I ask everyone who thinks he is a smarta to prove dharmashastras are based on vedas.

 

[prasad1]

10-Year-Old Girl Dies In Hospital Days After Reported Gang Rape In India

A 10-year-old girl who reportedly was gang-raped in India last week succumbed to an unspecified ailment at a Mumbai hospital Tuesday night.


The child was admitted to the facility in Navi Mumbai with nausea and a high fever several days after the June 16 assault, NDTV reports. Authorities are investigating whether the girl died of injuries relating to the rape or if an unrelated illness -- possibly meningitis -- was the cause.


According to local reports, four teenage boys between the ages of 14 and 16 gang-raped the young girl after luring her to a secluded location.


The girl was rushed to the local hospital after she collapsed on June 20. Though the 10-year-old was unconscious during her time in the hospital, she reportedly described the assault to a friend before she was admitted. The friend relayed the account to the girl's parents.


"The girl had told her mother that she was experiencing pain in her private parts, but did not reveal that she had been raped. Her ordeal came to light when she was hospitalized," Fatehsingh Patil, a police commissioner in Navi Mumbai, told the Mumbai Mirror. "We have registered a case and are questioning the suspects."


As the Hindustan Times notes, one of the boys in question is believed to have previously raped the girl on a separate occasion.


I want the rape apologists who justified rape because the 23-old Delhi girl was provocatively dressed, to defend this new rape.

 

[renuka]

I want the rape apologists who justified rape because the 23-old Delhi girl was provocatively dressed, to defend this new rape.

Dear Prasad ji,


I have the answer ready for you...those who justify rape will say

"Oh the rapist saw some woman wearing revealing clothes on the street or he saw a woman in a swimsuit at the swimming pool or he saw a saree clad woman's waist..and he got turned on..there was no bathroom to run to for him to lessen the pent up urges and all this worked on his mind the whole day...the circulating testosterone was wrecking havoc the whole day and finally he saw an innocent little child and he used her as an outlet"

Wait wait there is still more...then the mother of the rapist will say "Aiyooo/Hey Ram! My Chellam/My Putr is a good boy...it is becos he saw all the women who wore revealing clothes that day that made him do this...so my son is innocent..he is a man..do you expect him not to get aroused when he sees skin show...Hey Ram/Aiyooo what is happening to this country??..please save boys from such women!"

 

[tks]

Human beings have the capacity to be highly compassionate. But they also have capacity to show they are the worst beings in this manifestation. For self gratification and power they will do anything.

I am not sure who the so called rape apologists are - they are just ignorant bunch if they exist