Is it a Sin to kill small insects knowingly or unknowingly as per Hinduism?

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

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thank you ji!

 

[sravna]

PJ ji,

Considering that Lord Rama did prayaschitta after killing Ravana to cleanse himself of Brahma hatti and veera hatti dosham , even though killing of ravana is necessary and justified , still it is a papa and need to do purificatory rites. that's the lesson from ramayana.

In similar vien , though it is necessary to kill small insects which harm us, we may need to do prayschitta but im not sure what kind of purifiactory rites prescribed for such sins.

Thanks

Dear Shri HRHK,

Good point.

 

[P.J.]

yani kani ca papani
brahma-hatyadikani ca
tani tani pranasyanti
pradakshinah pade pade​

By the circumambulation of Srimati Tulasi Devi all the sins that one may have committed are destroyed at every step.
Probably this is the Pariharam for killing insects, mosquitoes etc knowingly or unknowingly.

[FONT=&quot]Reciting Gayathri Mantra itself is a purifying factor.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] The Darshan (seeing, looking, observing the divine) of five faces of Ma Gayathri Devi amounts to expunging the five sins and acquiring five divine graces. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pancha[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-ma-Patakam[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (five heinous sins of killing, lying, stealing, drinking and abusing one's Guru)[/FONT]
GAYATRI

Also by doing Sandya Vandanam one destroys all the sins committed in the previous nights.
http://nitaaiveda.com/All_Scriptures_By_Acharyas/Vedas/Rigvediya_Sandhya_Vandana.htm
KNOWLEDGE TREASURES: August 2011



Yani Kani Ca Papani | Vaishnav Songs

 

[Raji Ram]

.... in the avani avittam.....in mahasankalpa.....prayachitta mantras are there...even prayachitta homam also there....

Dear TBS Sir,

We ladies kill more insects than men folk!

Is the homam enough for the 'gruhalakshmis' too??

 

[renuka]

PJ ji,

Considering that Lord Rama did prayaschitta after killing Ravana to cleanse himself of Brahma hatti and veera hatti dosham , even though killing of ravana is necessary and justified , still it is a papa and need to do purificatory rites. that's the lesson from ramayana.

In similar vien , though it is necessary to kill small insects which harm us, we may need to do prayschitta but im not sure what kind of purifiactory rites prescribed for such sins.

Thanks

Dear HRHK,

But I wonder why after the Mahabharat..the Pandavas did not have to do any ritual for Brahmana Hatya cos you see..the Kauravas were genetically Brahmins.

Kauravas were the sons of Dhritarasthra.

Dhritarasthra was the son of Sage Vyasa(a Brahmin).
So for all practical purposes the Kauravas were the grandchildren of Sage Vyasa and going by DNA they were genetically Brahmins.

Pandu never fathered the Pandavas and the Pandavas were Demi Gods(Son's of Devas)..so I really wonder if Varna classification applied to Demi Gods.

By killing one Brahmana itself(Ravan) Lord Rama had to do prayaschit.

Pandavas "killed" 100 Brahmins in the battle of Kurushetra..so why no Prayaschit for that?

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

please don't ask me , i don't know

 

[P.J.]

Again this question is posted here not just to start a ' thread' but to get knowledgeable opinion about killing harmful insects.
India is one country where epidemics of diseases come one after the other, and if everyone thinks that killings mosquitoes etc are sin, then more deaths.
Pariharams like reciting Gayathri,or doing Sandyavandanam is not possible for every one as very few know about these rituals.Poor people just feel sorry for killing an insect, and that should be enough to do away with their sin of killing a harmful insect.

 

[sravna]

Again this question is posted here not just to start a ' thread' but to get knowledgeable opinion about killing harmful insects.
India is one country where epidemics of diseases come one after the other, and if everyone thinks that killings mosquitoes etc are sin, then more deaths.
Pariharams like reciting Gayathri,or doing Sandyavandanam is not possible for every one as very few know about these rituals.Poor people just feel sorry for killing an insect, and that should be enough to do away with their sin of killing a harmful insect.

Dear Shri PJ,

The beauty is pariharams are meant only for those who are knowledgeable about them. The more your are higher up in the ladder the more responsible and accountable you are and vice versa. Doesn't a butcher get away with slaying an animal?

I understand the above statements are controversial and so let me state my conviction that in a kaliyuga especially, birth based distinctions are less meaningful.

 

[prasad1]

Again this question is posted here not just to start a ' thread' but to get knowledgeable opinion about killing harmful insects.
India is one country where epidemics of diseases come one after the other, and if everyone thinks that killings mosquitoes etc are sin, then more deaths.
Pariharams like reciting Gayathri,or doing Sandyavandanam is not possible for every one as very few know about these rituals.Poor people just feel sorry for killing an insect, and that should be enough to do away with their sin of killing a harmful insect.

If you think saying few words absolves you of your karmphala, I have no argument with you.
No one can deny the Placebo Effect.

A 4 year old child smears some color and shows it me, I am ready to admire it.
If a 24 year old person shows the painting skills at the same level of 4 years old, I am not going to be overjoyed.

If you read Gita, you can get what ever message you want.
After all in Gita Krishna says:
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.


There is no one ideal path for all.

 

[sangom]

Again this question is posted here not just to start a ' thread' but to get knowledgeable opinion about killing harmful insects.
India is one country where epidemics of diseases come one after the other, and if everyone thinks that killings mosquitoes etc are sin, then more deaths.
Pariharams like reciting Gayathri,or doing Sandyavandanam is not possible for every one as very few know about these rituals.Poor people just feel sorry for killing an insect, and that should be enough to do away with their sin of killing a harmful insect.

Shri PJ,

If your avataar is your photo, it looks to me that you are sufficiently old to have come to some definite conclusion in your life, on some of the topics initiated here.

This "sin complex" like many other similar things, is an outcome of the mind having been so much allowed to dabble in such notions, that at some stage the mind becomes the absolute controller and, sometimes, we see the consequence as OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). Possibly the Digambara Jains give us the best example of such obsessive concern with "ahimsa".

There was one of our dearest veteran members here (he has left the forum since some time). In one of his posts, I remember his having written that during one stage in his life he was so obsessed with the idea of śuddhaṃ or bodily purity that he started feeling guilty because the food eaten on the previous day was still remaining inside as faeces and so how can one do worship of God? I am writing this only to give an example and I have nothing but the highest regards for that member.

In a similar way, if we start worrying about small insects onwards, we come to a broad classification —those which can cause lasting damage, harm and simple pests which may, at best, cause some loss in terms of money or goods. My grandmother always used to prohibit attack & kill attitude towards simple pests like ants, houseflies, etc., but not in the case of scorpions, spiders, some centipedes etc. We generally do not try to kill ants but only to sweep them on to a garbage collecting pan and throw the collected ants in the compound, where, anyway there are lots of ants. If some foodstuff is infected by ants or worms, we place the stuff, well spread in sunlight and the pests will go away after some time. Items like spiders, scorpions, wasps, beehives, etc., have to be destroyed because if we leave them untouched, they may cause irreparable harm to us.

In all these there will be some killing involved and we cannot avoid that. And, there is no point in feeling guilty about it. What is needed is earthy commonsense. After all do we not inhale billions of bacteria while breathing most of which are killed by the white corpuscles in the blood? Should we go to the extent of searching for appropriate "parihaarams" to be done by those white corpuscles in our body!

 

[P.J.]

Dear Prasad Sir

"If you think saying few words absolves you of your karmphala, I have no argument with you.doing a service" is not my idea.

The meaning of Sandyavandanam mantra says so.

 

[P.J.]

Dear sangom sir
i am surprised to see your comment
"If your avataar is your photo, it looks to me that you are sufficiently old"; i do not understand why would anyone post some one 's photo as his/her avatar?
Yes, it is mine only , taken a few years back!! i am now 73 nearing 74.

 

[sravna]

A very pragmatic point of view by Shri.Sangom. My view is only that people who are familiar with pariharams and have belief in them, let's say, have access to a secret formula. Assume they commit a sin and by pariharams they are absolved of it. But the point is this only works if the act is genuine and they don't assume they can commit any sin and remove its effect by a pariharam


Now let's think this way. Assume you have a quarrel with your wife, and emotionally hurt her in the process. Later you realize your mistake and want to pacify her. So you decide to buy her a gift and make her happy and when you do that your wife does feel happy.

I think this is what happens in a pariharam. The cause of your sin may have been mostly in your previous births and you cannot appease in the above way. But instead you make an appeasement as prescribed in the scriptures as an indication that you have repented for the sin. This is necessary because you are not aware of the cause of the sin but are only experiencing its effects in the current birth. So you cannot even feel really sorry for the sin you committed in the previous births.

Whether you have access to the secret formula or not is itself decided by fate. If it is so destined you will go in search of it.

 

[sangom]

Dear sangom sir
i am surprised to see your comment
"If your avataar is your photo, it looks to me that you are sufficiently old"; i do not understand why would anyone post some one 's photo as his/her avatar?
Yes, it is mine only , taken a few years back!! i am now 73 nearing 74.

Sorry sir,

I have come across, in some other forums, people posting photos of their loved ones, revered people, etc. Therefore it cannot be said as a general rule that the avatar photo must be that of the member concerned.

 

[prasad1]

Sorry sir,

I have come across, in some other forums, people posting photos of their loved ones, revered people, etc. Therefore it cannot be said as a general rule that the avatar photo must be that of the member concerned.

Oh good you have clarified my doubt, I thought you looked familier when I say a bunch of dears running in a park. LOL

 

[sangom]

A very pragmatic point of view by Shri.Sangom. My view is only that people who are familiar with pariharams and have belief in them, let's say, have access to a secret formula. Assume they commit a sin and by pariharams they are absolved of it. But the point is this only works if the act is genuine and they don't assume they can commit any sin and remove its effect by a pariharam


Now let's think this way. Assume you have a quarrel with your wife, and emotionally hurt her in the process. Later you realize your mistake and want to pacify her. So you decide to buy her a gift and make her happy and when you do that your wife does feel happy.

I think this is what happens in a pariharam. The cause of your sin may have been mostly in your previous births and you cannot appease in the above way. But instead you make an appeasement as prescribed in the scriptures as an indication that you have repented for the sin. This is necessary because you are not aware of the cause of the sin but are only experiencing its effects in the current birth. So you cannot even feel really sorry for the sin you committed in the previous births.

Whether you have access to the secret formula or not is itself decided by fate. If it is so destined you will go in search of it.

Shri Sravna,

I feel we are just going off the topic, a bit because the OP was w.r.t. killing of small insects in this very janma and whether there are specific parihārams therefor, either inbuilt in our brahminic code of living or outside of that.

Anyway, perhaps as you know, I do not think that there can be any parihārams for any of our actions, whether small or big. Don't we cite the Bhagavadgeeta verse which categorically and in lucid terms, states that karmaṇyevādhikāraste mā phaleṣu kadācana? Also we have the ordinary adage that வில்லிலிருந்து புறப்பெட்ட அம்பும் வாயிலிருந்து விழுந்த வார்த்தையும் திரும்ப வராது (the arrow which has left the bow and the words which escape one's mouth cannot be taken back).

So, the results of all our Karmas SHALL have to be experienced by us, no escape. The way to compromise a tiff with the wife may be effective in seeing smile on her face again but mark my words neither any wife nor any husband will easily forget emotional hurts or even physical hurts.


parihārams if done, will constitute, yet another fresh Karma and whatever results thereof will have to be experienced separately, imho.

 

[P.J.]

Killing a mosquito is not aim or motto, but it is a kind of protection from the mosquito's action. The mosquito gives nuisance; decease to us and possibly many people may die.
There are people in forests who know nothing about the Vedic literature or about Sin etc.
There are Aborigines (adivasis) who lead their life happily.
What Prayaschitta they can do?

You can create complicated karma through your intentions. For instance, if you murder a murderer and you does so thinking about revenge, then you create a lot of negative karma-he murdered, and then you fed negativity back into the cycle. But if you murder a murderer because you want to protect people, then you've created a complex karmic reaction that changes you in different ways.

You have to deal with the fact that you've killed someone, but you do so knowing that you saved lives. This goes even further; if you murder a murderer to stop him from hurting others, and to prevent him from causing himself negative karma, completely prepared to eat the consequences of your actions, the good you have performed so outweighs the bad that there can be no question as to the morality of your action.

 

[prasad1]

Who killed? Who died?
This ego tell you that you did it. Do you think that if Brahman did not want it, you could have still done it. There is nothing outside or against Brahman.
There is always karma phala for every action.
It depends on how you attach yourself to the karmaphala.

One who takes the Self to be the slayer and the one who thinks He is slain, neither of them knows; The Self slays not nor is He slain. (Bhagavad Gita 2.19)


This (the Self) is never born, nor does it die at any time. This has never come into being, never comes and never will come into being. This is eternal, permanent, the most ancient, is not killed when the body is being killed. (2.20)


One who knows this Self to be indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable, O Partha, how can that person slay or cause to be slain. (2.21)

Also, the idea of separation exists only when we identify with this body, a particular name and form. We say ‘I’ and ‘the other’ only with respect to name and form. When we understand that the identification with name and form is just an illusion, there is no more separation, there is only One. Then there is no more selfishness, there is no harming somebody else to do good for yourself. All ideas of fear, hope, worry, anxiety, desire, craving, killing, being killed, all these ideas vanish. You know yourself to be the One Self, you are the only one. With this knowledge, you live in the present and do the most appropriate thing you can do at this moment.


I do not believe you can escape Karmaphala by doing pariharm. Pariharm at best is for your satisfaction, and to stop you from feeling guilty.

In Pakistan one can get absolved from the crime of murder, if the victims family is paid sufficient amount. In that respect pariharm was done, did it bring back the dead, or the murderer is absolved of the effect of killing for personal reason?

If you committed any action be the person to accept the results what ever they be.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

IMO pariharam is not an action but part of a reaction. It is like using of a shield to protect yourself against an an attack. The action is the attack or your previous sin and the reaction is the shield or the pariharam. You may still get hurt but the intensity is reduced just as in the case of the example of the wife, where she may not easily forget the insults but the appeasement at least somewhat improves the situation.

Also when one is under the influence of maya, pariharams don't work. Once when one begins to come out of maya or out of ignorance, he begins to acquire freewill. When freewill based action happens he may do things rightly or wrongly. Till he is self realized he will not do all the things rightly all the time. So some allowance should be given for that and he should be offered the opportunity to absolve himself of his freewill based karma.

Shri Sangom, you tell me which one is more fair:

(1) "Punishing" someone for actions based on his limited freewill
(2) Allowing the opportunity to absolve or reduce the intensity of his actions based on limited freewill

Finally you need not have killed the insects in the present janma. Previous janma actions also might have reactions in this janma and those of this janma in the next.

 

[C RAVI]

When a murder repents for his act of murdering some one, deep in his heart and pays sufficient money to the victim's family, he "MAY" be spared by the negative intensity of the curse on him by the victim's family and that of the consequences of his negative karma.

If he just throws money having a lot, having been decided to murder and make settlement to the family, it would not help him mitigating any sort of negativity upon him, as a reaction to his bad deeds.


In both the above cases, the human legal systems of the specific country/community may spare him in Toto or in some partial manner BUT the Law Of Karma can never be tampered with.

Anything Gross can be crystal clear and can be manipulated BUT anything subtle can never be!!


Pariharams needs a devoted performance with true and sincere regret deep within one's conscious. It still would not suffice if a person is determined to commit sins, considering Pariharams as a rescue/compensation tool, performing it with at most sincerity, by forcefully fooling one self. One can very well convince oneself to suit oneself comfortably BUT one can not overrule the Karma Laws that operates subtly, beyond human control and total comprehension.


Killing insects that is wandering around you, is expected to harm you any moment and approaching you to harm you (though the creature does not know that it is imposing harm), is not at all a Sin.

It is similar to -

Killing a rapist or a murderer as a final resort in the most warranted circumstances can never be a Sin. Here the rapist or the murderer deserves the reactions and the reacting is representing Dharma.


As well a Jury sanctioning death sentence to an accused as consequences to the evidences and arguments presented before him and accordingly having been convinced to the best of one's honesty, will not accumulate negative karma. Here the accused deserves the verdict (either as the truth of his act OR being innocent and still subjected to suffer due manipulations due to the negative karmas of the past birth deeds) and the Jury is just representing Dharma.

 

[P.J.]

Ravi Sir
"Killing insects that is wandering around you, is expected to harm you any moment and approaching you to harm you (though the creature does not know that it is imposing harm), is not at all a Sin"

I totally accept this logic.

 

[sangom]

Killing a mosquito is not aim or motto, but it is a kind of protection from the mosquito's action. The mosquito gives nuisance; decease to us and possibly many people may die.
There are people in forests who know nothing about the Vedic literature or about Sin etc.
There are Aborigines (adivasis) who lead their life happily.
What Prayaschitta they can do?

You can create complicated karma through your intentions. For instance, if you murder a murderer and you does so thinking about revenge, then you create a lot of negative karma-he murdered, and then you fed negativity back into the cycle. But if you murder a murderer because you want to protect people, then you've created a complex karmic reaction that changes you in different ways.

You have to deal with the fact that you've killed someone, but you do so knowing that you saved lives. This goes even further; if you murder a murderer to stop him from hurting others, and to prevent him from causing himself negative karma, completely prepared to eat the consequences of your actions, the good you have performed so outweighs the bad that there can be no question as to the morality of your action.

Dear Shri PJ,

I am not good at debates, nor in giving effective 'counters'. So, I don't want to continue this argument. But it looks to me that you as well as many others here are tending to view things from the vantage point of a Law Commission and thus trying to lay down what will constitute sin, negative Karma, immoral actions and so on; in short you people are attempting to spin a new "karma theory" when, in truth, we are not even sure that there is something called karma and we are merely postulating an 'empty' Karma theory to explain adversities (as also prosperity which is not to our liking!) in very general terms. I wish you all, the best and rest my case here.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

IMO pariharam is not an action but part of a reaction. It is like using of a shield to protect yourself against an an attack. The action is the attack or your previous sin and the reaction is the shield or the pariharam. You may still get hurt but the intensity is reduced just as in the case of the example of the wife, where she may not easily forget the insults but the appeasement at least somewhat improves the situation.

Also when one is under the influence of maya, pariharams don't work. Once when one begins to come out of maya or out of ignorance, he begins to acquire freewill. When freewill based action happens he may do things rightly or wrongly. Till he is self realized he will not do all the things rightly all the time. So some allowance should be given for that and he should be offered the opportunity to absolve himself of his freewill based karma.

Shri Sangom, you tell me which one is more fair:

(1) "Punishing" someone for actions based on his limited freewill
(2) Allowing the opportunity to absolve or reduce the intensity of his actions based on limited freewill

Finally you need not have killed the insects in the present janma. Previous janma actions also might have reactions in this janma and those of this janma in the next.

Dear Shri Sravna,

The word parihāra in sanskrit means an act to lead round ; avoid, shun, leave, desert, abandon, give up, resign ; take away, remove, etc. It could, therefore, well mean the use of a shield, as you say. But imho, the essential requirement is (1)the recognition by the doer himself/herself of the Karma and its result/s and, equally, if not more importantly, (2) sincere repentance of the person. I beg to say that in doing parihārams, I have not found item 1because it is at best based on some astrologer's words and item 2 is never there; in the latter's place what I find is a kind of haughtiness which speaks of having subdued the bad thing — something like the āgneyāstra vs varuṇāstra scenes which are the staples of many mythological films.

Regarding your specific queries, I do not subscribe to the view that there is any punishment by any outside agency; it is more like a child eating too many sweetmeats and later suffering a stomach pain. As to your second query, my answer is " every action has a reaction on which we have no control (kadāca na).

So, I refer to this post of mine and rest my case.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

I am not trying to score a point now but see if we can have a better understanding of the karma theory through a fruitful discussion. So I request very knowledgeable people like you and others to participate in the discussion.

There should be little disagreement among members here whether karma is about action and reaction. So the debatable point is how much are we in control over the action and the reaction?

1) If we have no control over action at all there is absolutely no freewill. If we have limited control there is some freewill. And everyone would agree that only the ultimate reality has absolute freewill

2) If we have no control over the reaction , pariharams would not work. Otherwise it would, at least to the extent we have control over them.

So my thesis is that on the actions on which we have no control over, we have reactions also which are out of our control. This set of actions and reactions happen when we are under the spell of maya or in ignorance. The purpose is to ensure that every soul gets all the right actions and reactions and therefore the experiences that are essential for the final self realization.

But we also gradually come out of maya. This is when I think we acquire free will. This is akin to an infant which is initially totally under the care of its parents but slowly begins to be on its own. When using freewill we can use it rightly or wrongly. But I think there is a way to escape the reactions based on this kind of karma just as a very young person, someone as an adolescent is not held totally responsible for his wrong actions but given consideration for his still not totally developed maturity.

Thus freewill based actions and pariharams signify that we indeed have control over some actions and the corresponding reactions.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Shri PJ,

I am not good at debates, nor in giving effective 'counters'. So, I don't want to continue this argument. But it looks to me that you as well as many others here are tending to view things from the vantage point of a Law Commission and thus trying to lay down what will constitute sin, negative Karma, immoral actions and so on; in short you people are attempting to spin a new "karma theory" when, in truth, we are not even sure that there is something called karma and we are merely postulating an 'empty' Karma theory to explain adversities (as also prosperity which is not to our liking!) in very general terms. I wish you all, the best and rest my case here.

It is spin all right. It is psychological and not Karmic logic. Do it as long as your want to do it, do what ever, and have the most crooked lawyer to get you the amnesty, show up in court (OJ SIMPSON case) and put up a good show, sell it to your peer. That is it, that is not karma theory.
But if it gives you the licence to do the crime go ahead, others have been doing it so. But do not call it Karmic or even moral.