The Sin of being born a Son in Hindu society

[sangom]

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Sometimes i wonder.. IS LIFE IS CHOICE?,...OR ....IS LIFE IS CHANCE?....OR ...JUST FATE?..Yes. Even I do.

Sir,

I feel life is a direct consequence of our past karmas; to that extent it is already decided and can be called Fate. Then again, there is a small window of free will through which we can offset the undesirable effects of the past Karmas troubling us. This is the area in which religion, temples, astrologers, parihaarams, etc., have a field day, imho. However, this window varies from person to person and so where one person benefits by visiting a deity in a temple, another person may be involved in an accident on the way to the same temple, and may lose a limb, etc.

The most important thing for all of us is to keep a constant watch over our every Karma — big and small — and direct it so that we do not go away from this world with a huge Karma baggage. But human inability prevents almost all of us from this.

 

[prasad1]

Sir,

I feel life is a direct consequence of our past karmas; to that extent it is already decided and can be called Fate. Then again, there is a small window of free will through which we can offset the undesirable effects of the past Karmas troubling us. This is the area in which religion, temples, astrologers, parihaarams, etc., have a field day, imho. However, this window varies from person to person and so where one person benefits by visiting a deity in a temple, another person may be involved in an accident on the way to the same temple, and may lose a limb, etc.

The most important thing for all of us is to keep a constant watch over our every Karma — big and small — and direct it so that we do not go away from this world with a huge Karma baggage. But human inability prevents almost all of us from this.

Beautifully written post.
I fully agree that for most part we have to deal with the cards we are given (fate of previous karmas). We do not have the choice of a do over there. How well we play the hand is with us. We can play it to our best ability (that is not aquiring any more undedesirable karmas). There is absolutly no point in crying over the hand that has been dealt. We have every reason to be happy that we are still sitting at the table, and as long as we do not gamble away this life, we have a hope of getting a better hand in the turn.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Sir,

I feel life is a direct consequence of our past karmas; to that extent it is already decided and can be called Fate. Then again, there is a small window of free will through which we can offset the undesirable effects of the past Karmas troubling us. This is the area in which religion, temples, astrologers, parihaarams, etc., have a field day, imho. However, this window varies from person to person and so where one person benefits by visiting a deity in a temple, another person may be involved in an accident on the way to the same temple, and may lose a limb, etc.

The most important thing for all of us is to keep a constant watch over our every Karma — big and small — and direct it so that we do not go away from this world with a huge Karma baggage. But human inability prevents almost all of us from this.

Sangom,

That was a post by tbs. The credit should go to him. I was only saying ME too.

 

[amala]

Now-a-days NO mil dares confrontations with the dil. Actually, they are a sort of scared! If they advise their dil on anything,

the next moment the son will appear to support his wife. That is the case in many families I know. Our close friend's mother is

very orthodox; He and his wife are T V personalities. When their d i l appeared with tight modern dress, I thought, 'How come this

girl dresses up like this?'. But both her mil and mil's mil sent her off to college (she works as a lecturer!) with a ...

P.S: Many mils roam around the house even in the day time with a 'nighty', in Sing. Chennai! New style??? :dizzy:

mami thats not nighty! Its called maxi dresses or kaftans

 

[tbs]

Beautifully written post.
I fully agree that for most part we have to deal with the cards we are given (fate of previous karmas). We do not have the choice of a do over there. How well we play the hand is with us. We can play it to our best ability (that is not aquiring any more undedesirable karmas). There is absolutly no point in crying over the hand that has been dealt. We have every reason to be happy that we are still sitting at the table, and as long as we do not gamble away this life, we have a hope of getting a better hand in the turn.

hi prasad sir,
i just wonder the newtown CT incident....where is the free will in this incident....from one story of the incident...I BELEIVE IN

FATE OR POORVA KARMA OF CHILDREN/ADULTS... i heard one sorrow story of the boy named Naoh....have u heard abt ?..

he was twins....his other sister excaped in the tragedy....his funeral happened today....here his twin sister escaped...but

he died.....some philosophical/religious questions are unanswered in the name of KARMA....i agreed ...we are pre destined...

 

[sangom]

Sangom,

That was a post by tbs. The credit should go to him. I was only saying ME too.

I dedicate my post to both of you sirs. Sorry for the oversight.

 

[kunjuppu]

mami thats not nighty! Its called maxi dresses or kaftans

mrs K calls these housecoats.

she has always worn these at home. these are loose fitting and immensely comfortable. they come in attractive designs and she sticks to cotton only.

i was surprised recently, when i found out that a female relative of mine, married for 30 years, and living in tropical climes, is forbidden to wear that by her husband. she could wear a churidar at home, but not a housecoat. the lady being a practical one, finds sari cumbersome for normal housewear.

has anyone heard of housecoat/maxidresses/nighty ban on ladies? anywhere? anytime?

the first time we ever saw this in our family, was in early 1960s, when mrs pillai, a tamil, who had emigrated to work in british east african railways in the 1930s, and returned home after retiring, when those countries achieved independence (malawi aka northern rhodesia).

she used to be our neighbour, and amble day in and day out in what my mother would term as 'angi'. ofcourse, the local women, tambrams and otherwise, would never think of emuliating this apparently comfortable attire. it was left to the next generation to adopt it, and 'indianize' it and also many instances, 'fashionize' it.

during mom's last years, due to excessive weight loss, and due to sores in the stomach through surgery scars, she found it painful and heavy to wear the sari and the accompanying paraphernalia. so one day, my sis, made the decision - pat came out the sari, and the 'angi' was on. it was a pleasure the see the relief on mom's eyes. to each his or her own, i guess.

 

[P.J.]

Many old women prefer to wear nighty at home for convenience; in old age, any fall might result in fracture and lead to further consequences.For old men, it is comfortable to wear Pyjamas at home , I think so ; I always wear Pyjamas at home.

 

[sangom]

mrs K calls these housecoats.

she has always worn these at home. these are loose fitting and immensely comfortable. they come in attractive designs and she sticks to cotton only.

i was surprised recently, when i found out that a female relative of mine, married for 30 years, and living in tropical climes, is forbidden to wear that by her husband. she could wear a churidar at home, but not a housecoat. the lady being a practical one, finds sari cumbersome for normal housewear.

has anyone heard of housecoat/maxidresses/nighty ban on ladies? anywhere? anytime?

the first time we ever saw this in our family, was in early 1960s, when mrs pillai, a tamil, who had emigrated to work in british east african railways in the 1930s, and returned home after retiring, when those countries achieved independence (malawi aka northern rhodesia).

she used to be our neighbour, and amble day in and day out in what my mother would term as 'angi'. ofcourse, the local women, tambrams and otherwise, would never think of emuliating this apparently comfortable attire. it was left to the next generation to adopt it, and 'indianize' it and also many instances, 'fashionize' it.

during mom's last years, due to excessive weight loss, and due to sores in the stomach through surgery scars, she found it painful and heavy to wear the sari and the accompanying paraphernalia. so one day, my sis, made the decision - pat came out the sari, and the 'angi' was on. it was a pleasure the see the relief on mom's eyes. to each his or her own, i guess.

Kunjuppu,

That exactly is the secret. If a woman is seen in this maxi dress, in our circle here, it is taken for granted that her days are counted and she has undergone surgery and all of those things. That is why most Tabra women of the older generation do not have the guts to wear it.

And, if any old woman wears it without the underlying reason, she is looked upon as an upstart, loose-moraled woman even after so many years!

 

[kunjuppu]

Kunjuppu,

And, if any old woman wears it without the underlying reason, she is looked upon as an upstart, loose-moraled woman even after so many years!

Hilarious!!! at that age, i would consider that a COMPLIMENT

 

[sankara_sharmah]

This thread is meandering. We seem to have run out of comments on the subject of discussion.

Let me sum it up.

An analysis of the posts show only Two posts supporting the O.P. One post is Against. Many posts are Semantics about defining the term responsibility Two posts could be also considered against as they are for statusquo. Rest is about mother in laws.

So it is Two For - Three Against and rest Neutral.

So we can conclude that in general the community is against daughters being given the responsibility of parents and want the Sons to support them.

What are the reasons for this attitude? It is in the interest of Parents that daughters also should support them. An attitude which may seem to be against their own interest.

The main reason is the obsession of the Hindus with their Sons.

Why are they obsessed? Because the scriptures lay down that they will go to hell if the Son does not perform Antyesti and annual shraddha.. Garuda Purana goes into all the horrendous details. I have read the Garuda Purana.

Antyesti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Antyesthi/vadhyar.com

Only the Sons have the right to perform Antyesti.

<<It is the duty of the son, father, or husband, to ignite the fire. If these relatives are not available then a brother or a nephew or any other closest relative would start the fire. As the fire begins to develop the priest chants mantras from Veda appropriate to the occasion...>>

The daughters are excluded. Tamil Brahmins even do not allow the daughter to go to the cremation ground.

Then it is the Duty of the son to perform Shraddha every year for his parents and ancestors.

It is this which makes the parents value their son more than the daughter. Here again the eldest son gets a priority.

It is this firm belief in Antyeshti, Annual shraddham and Amavasai tharpanam which acts as an impediment to the daughters being asked to shoulder the responsibly of supporting the parents.

It is quite a common occurrence that even when the parents are staying with the daughter they dare not antagonize the son. When staying with younger sons they dare not antagonize the eldest Son.

Tamil Brahmins do not want to give the right of performing Antyesti and Shraddha to their daughters. So since the Son has this right he has all the responsibility. Particularly the eldest Son.

We have discussed about the need for giving the right of Antyesti and Shraddha to daughters in this forum many times.

Note: I do not believe in Antyeshti, Annual shraddham and Amavasi tharpanam. I have told my sons not to perform any ceremonies after my death. I will be putting these in writing also. But then what my sons would do is upto them.

I am not saying that the belief is right or wrong. You believe in what you believe and I believe in what I believe. We all have the right to do that.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear S S Sir,

Please do not panic about the meandering of this thread. It is quite natural in this forum! These are named 'threads' and not 'rods';

because threads are very flexible and turn easily. Sometimes it gets entangled so much that Sri. Praveen has to end it with the

'brahma mudichchu'!

P.S: OOps! Sorry for this post which is irrelevant to the topic under discussion!

 

[tbs]

hi
noolu engeyo poguthu.....lol

 

[Raji Ram]

.... noolu engeyo poguthu.....lol

You forgot the two most important words: 'as usual'!!

 

[Raji Ram]

mami thats not nighty! Its called maxi dresses or kaftans

Dear Amala,

A nighty is different from Maxi dress or Kaftan. See these pictures:

An Indian nighty (simple)

Maxi (full dress - Gown type)

Kaftans (What the famous writer Sujatha mentioned as 'JadAyu dress')

Picture courtesy: Google images.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear S S Sir,

Ladies are supposed to have dainty hearts and feelings. So, they were not allowed to the grave yard for many years. Now that the

electric crematoriums have been set up in metro cities, ladies too go there. I have gone to the Besant Nagar crematorium at least

eight times, when elders in our family passed away. If a person has only daughter(s) then the son in law does the 'karmA'.

F Y I, one of my school friends crated history in early eighties, when she (the second of the three daughters) claimed her right

to do the last rites for her father, who was a 'maniakArar' in our village. She lit the funeral pyre, to the amazement of the

whole village! A brave girl indeed! :thumb:

 

[amala]

mrs K calls these housecoats.

she has always worn these at home. these are loose fitting and immensely comfortable. they come in attractive designs and she sticks to cotton only.

i was surprised recently, when i found out that a female relative of mine, married for 30 years, and living in tropical climes, is forbidden to wear that by her husband. she could wear a churidar at home, but not a housecoat. the lady being a practical one, finds sari cumbersome for normal housewear.

has anyone heard of housecoat/maxidresses/nighty ban on ladies? anywhere? anytime?

the first time we ever saw this in our family, was in early 1960s, when mrs pillai, a tamil, who had emigrated to work in british east african railways in the 1930s, and returned home after retiring, when those countries achieved independence (malawi aka northern rhodesia).

she used to be our neighbour, and amble day in and day out in what my mother would term as 'angi'. ofcourse, the local women, tambrams and otherwise, would never think of emuliating this apparently comfortable attire. it was left to the next generation to adopt it, and 'indianize' it and also many instances, 'fashionize' it.

during mom's last years, due to excessive weight loss, and due to sores in the stomach through surgery scars, she found it painful and heavy to wear the sari and the accompanying paraphernalia. so one day, my sis, made the decision - pat came out the sari, and the 'angi' was on. it was a pleasure the see the relief on mom's eyes. to each his or her own, i guess.

Yes housecoat is a very proper word no . I never recall it being that popular growing up in Malaysia. Not the lovely cotton ones that seem to be all the rage in India these days. We had what we called kaftans with huge hands and boring batik designs. The first time i these dresses was a good few years ago at my uncle's in Chennai. Some ladies wear it over the normal sari petticoat as well.

And mami you're right, those full maxi halter necks, spaghetti string type are not this housecoat/nighty maxis at all. Those were all the rage here for the last two summers and its to be worn outside as opposed to the housecoats

TBH i don't understand why the housecoats/nighty are viewed very negatively considering they are far, far more concealing than saris!

PS: I believe maxis are all long dresses till your ankles, midis are in the middle (calves/knees) and then of course the infamous minis!

 

[amala]

Sorry bits of that post above was for Raji mami and Sangom sir too. I was too lazy to quote their posts all over!

 

[renuka]

I have not read all post here but all I can say is these days..the child staying nearest to parents is the child that looks after their parents.

So many daughters also look after the well being of their parents.
I stay near by my parents just 15 mins away from their house and I look after them.
I stay some 45 mins away from my Father In Law..if he needs help I always go even at 2am if he is sick.

So women do look after both parents and in laws too.
In fact more is expected from a daughter cos women are supposed to be suffused with compassion.

BTW coming to this:

Originally Posted by sankara_sharmah
You are supposed to end up in a special Naraka called Puth if you do not have a Son.

That's how the meaning of Putrah(son) came about.

Put Trayate Iti Putrah..the one who saves you from Put(a type of hell).

Interestingly the word Putri(daughter) also means the same..just that it is in feminine gender.

So does one actually need only a son to save him from hell or even a daughter will also do as good and save parents from hell?

BTW if we behave well we would not be landing in hell in the first place.

So lets all start behaving well!LOL

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

Indian nighties are the best in the world.

I always make sure I buy them the moment I land in India.

The cotton quality is excellent and it keeps you cool and it is full length and has sleeves and very decent to wear at home.

The leg area for walking is good and one can even run and take long wide strides in it.
Easy to wash too..just dump it in the washing machine and it does not get torn easily.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

About Antyesti, I quote from the Book "Hindu Samskaras" by Dr. Raj Bali Pandey, Banares Hindu University. - Motilal Banarsidass. This book was written to enable modern Hindus to understand the Samskaras and perform them.

The Primitive Nature of the Ceremonies

The funeral ceremonies, though often repeated and tedious are of the simplest type. In no other field of Hinduism the primitive beliefs regarding life and death survive so insistently as in the naive funeral operations. The next world is nothing but the replica of this earth, and the needs of the dead are the same as those of the living. Throughout the ceremonies the prayers are offered for the sensuous enjoyments and ease of the dead. We do not find any indication of the desire for his or her spiritual benefit, salvation or beatitude. The prayer for freedom from the cycles of birth and death is very casual and could be discovered only in the latest part of the ritual. The whole performance is of the most primitive kind and speaks of a period of remote antiquity.

 

[tbs]

hi renu,

Put Trayate Iti Putrah..the one who saves you from Put(a type of hell).


punaath naama narakad trayate iti putraha...i heard like this...i may be wrong....

 

[renuka]

hi renu,

Put Trayate Iti Putrah..the one who saves you from Put(a type of hell).


punaath naama narakad trayate iti putraha...i heard like this...i may be wrong....

TBS Garu,

You are surely right yaar..yours must be the full form and mine must be the sms form!

I found this:

Pun-namno narakad yasmat trayate iti putra.

Pu-tra. Pu means pun-namno narakat. There is a hell which is called put. So from that hellish condition, one who delivers, trayate iti tra, therefore he is called putra.

http://www.prabhupadavani.org/main/Bhagavatam/101.html

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear RR ji,

Indian nighties are the best in the world.

I always make sure I buy them the moment I land in India.

The cotton quality is excellent and it keeps you cool and it is full length and has sleeves and very decent to wear at home.

The leg area for walking is good and one can even run and take long wide strides in it.
Easy to wash too..just dump it in the washing machine and it does not get torn easily.

dear renu,

mrs K would agree with you 100%. nothing like indian cotton nighties. the colours and designs are awesome. the fabric if you are willing to pay over 500 INR, the smoothest and most absorbent cotton that you can ever find.

whenever i come to chennai i buy atleast a dozen. 6 of them for mrs K. the 500 - 800 rupees variety.

we have also found this to be great gift items particularly to our white friends. they carry a good value and worth, and quite inexpensive, dollar wise.

also nowadays, my 22 year old daughter has started to 'borrow' her mother's nighties.

recently, on a visit to singpo, i bought a singapore airlines kaftan. with its loose fit, string knot and airy structure, it is a onesizefitall wonder.

still not sure, why some men prohibit their wives from wearing nighties.

you are also correct about the wide cloth width, good enough for long legged strides. mrs K is ofcourse one of the latter, and she can navigate a room, in as many steps as she can with an indian nightie, as she can with a western trouser.

 

[renuka]

dear renu,

mrs K would agree with you 100%. nothing like indian cotton nighties. the colours and designs are awesome. the fabric if you are willing to pay over 500 INR, the smoothest and most absorbent cotton that you can ever find.

whenever i come to chennai i buy atleast a dozen. 6 of them for mrs K. the 500 - 800 rupees variety.

we have also found this to be great gift items particularly to our white friends. they carry a good value and worth, and quite inexpensive, dollar wise.

also nowadays, my 22 year old daughter has started to 'borrow' her mother's nighties.

recently, on a visit to singpo, i bought a singapore airlines kaftan. with its loose fit, string knot and airy structure, it is a onesizefitall wonder.

still not sure, why some men dont prohibit their wives from wearing nighties.

you are also correct about the wide cloth width, good enough for long legged strides. mrs K is ofcourse one of the latter, and she can navigate a room, in as many steps as she can with an indian nightie, as she can with a western trouser.

Dear Kunjs,

Believe me even in an emergency situation the Indian nightie is a versatile garment.

I once had to climb over my parents house gate cos my father had fallen in the bathroom and was unconscious..so I did not want to waste time for my mum to come outside and open the gate..so with Indian nightie I still managed to climb over the gate and jump down at 3am in the rain.
So Indian nightie does not hinder movement in anyway!

Now coming to your question:

still not sure, why some men dont prohibit their wives from wearing nighties.

I think you meant 'why some men prohibit their wives from wearing nighties. '

becos these men prefer something more revealing than the full covered cotton nightie!LOL
or the woman is some Kannathal types..wait wait..I will explain what is Kannathal types..read below.

I remember seeing one Tamil Movie Kannathal,where a husband buys for his religious holy wife a nightie to wear..the nightie was some school girl type of knee length frock with sleeves (so pretty decent anyway) and this Kannathal was crying and did not want to wear it cos she is supposed to be some good wife who wont wear nightie for her husband!LOL