sangom,
Kargil War Heroes
the above url is an ode to lt col viswanathan who lost his life in kargil. the battle cry of our soldiers, when they charge against the enemy in the field, is ‘hindustan hi jai’ or ‘jai hind’ - and for many it is the last words uttered before falling prey to the enemy bullets.
viswanathan is one of our tambrams, and one of the handful of our community who laid down his life for our motherland. to me when someone says ‘jai hind’, i feel, there should be a drop of sanctity and reverence. To utter those words at the end an hatred filled vitriol against the rest of non Brahmin India, to me, is an insult to the land of our birth. I have no problem in reiterating it.
Dear Shri Kunjuppu,
First of all let me say that I don't subscribe to your view that if you find a member or his views not palatable, that will, ipso facto, make that member liable to condemnation, even by you. Yes, Partha's views may not be "liked" by me also, perhaps, but till such time many members - or the moderator - finds that member's participation unsatisfactory, I believe he/she is as good or as bad a member of this forum as myself. In my reckoning, the number of posts or tenure of membership do not come into the picture of this equality at all. For instance, we may have a very learned and knowledgeable person joining today and his initial few posts may be diametrically opposed to my views on certain issues. I may differ, state my reasons and politely stop at that. I would not think of (or, dare) opinionated remarks like,
"hatred filled vitriol against the rest of non Brahmin India, to me, is an insult to the land of our birth. I have no problem in reiterating it." Essentially, IMO, these are matters coming purely within the jurisdiction of the moderator/s or forum owner and not us, mere members, unless there are extra privileges granted to any one of us by the forum owner himself.
Also, in your initial post to RP you said, "partha,
first of all, i think you are insulting Mother India with your signature, JAI HIND. your note has insulted, i think, 25% of the population of india's hindus. "
What does this 25 percent represent? NBs? Then how is the rest 70 percent made up of (taking Bs to be 5 percent approx.)?
The Constitution of India does not prohibit even a convict sentenced to death (for caste atrocities, let us say) from saying "Jai Hind"; so is it that you deem yourself a higher dispenser of justice and norms than even the Constitution of India?
I would like you to pause for a moment and come down to earth from the sublime heights of more than 2500 posts.
soon after kargil, there was a rush among the sikhs and jats to join the army, but i am not aware of reading anywhere there was a similar rush by tambrams. if at all anything, we have always disinclined our youth from joining the armed forces in any capacity.
I do not find any relevance to this statement except that any stick is good to beat the brahmins with; haven't you heard that "they also serve who only stand and wait"? There are some members here itself who were in the defence but to accuse tambrams in any whichever manner seems to me to be uncharitable, to say the least.
in today's india, we are undergoing massive social changes. we are probably trying to uproot prejudices and practices handed down through milleniums, all within a lifetime or two, as india is in a rush to catch up with the world and ensure that it gets its due respect befitting an ancient civilization, transposing itself into a modern society. communities forever condemned to the margins, or even beyond margins, have now a chance to dream of a better life for their progeny.
as a percentage, i feel, that we tambrams, have a lot lot fewer folks who could be defined as below poverty level. yes they should be helped up. what i find unacceptable is this level of anger fueled by the belief, that other communities are coming up at our expense. folks like partha, appear to subscribe to this type of thinking, judging by his posts. i am not going to quarrel with him, because for me, it is a waste of time and breath, to spend over such corruption. i would rather help someone who gives me hope and positive vibes, and not someone who has a grouse against the whole world.
All these statements only reveal, IMO, the extreme intolerance you have for opinions opposite to yours. I would not go at it hammer & tongs, just because someone says his opinion which is not to my liking.
in most societies, upheavals of the kind that is happening in india, has resulted in enormous bloodshed - one only has to turn the history pages on france, russia or china. it is to india's credit that we have turned around and elevated those disenfranchised as late as 60 years ago to positions of power, and built new generations of those communities who are able to participate in nation building in all its facets.
in any turmoil of this kind, there are those who are left behind. particularly from the erstwhile privileged class. by 'privilege', i do not necessarily mean one of wealth. i am referring more to a state of the mind, and the sense of entitlement that goes along with it. which i think, all the erstwhile so called high castes, have it instilled in them, sadly, even to this day.
It is all quite comforatble to preach till the difficulty stares at your face squarely. Kindly give some allowance to the fact that fortunately you and I are free from such troubles, whereas Partha - according to his statements - has suffered/is suffering in certain way. If, however, this forum itself is against any sort of anti-NB statement, but will permit anti-brahmin references, I would like to be enlightened.
in the context of this post, the elephant in the room, was the supposed incursions of the NBs into erstwhile exclusive brahmin entities like agraharams or our daughters/sisters and polluting our space/blood. i agree that all of us are prejudiced, and we only differ to the degree or level.
Having so agreed, what was the harm in RP telling his troubles and dealing with it in a calmer manner?
when it comes to india as a whole, we often tend to forget, that modern india, belongs to all - right from the so called upper castes to the supposedly lowly dalits, the various other religious groups.
To me what Partha said was his family's problem and the troubles they were facing from NBs and Dalits. But when the discussion progressed he elaborated his views. I don't think Partha said that India does not belong to all, etc. You are inventing points which are not at all relevant.
in that context, and based on the content of the post, the signature 'jai hind' was unbecoming. even when a president or prime minister signs off with jai hind, it is not preceded by vitriol against other castes or religions of india. i found insinuations in partha's posts, which were only magnified in his further diatribes against me.
After a very laboured attempt to prove that Partha was against all NBs, Dalits etc., you are trying to justify your (emotional, I would say) outburst against him; like a traditional mil finding fault with her dil, you went beyond your province to attack your opponent's signature even! The total picture I get from your post is that you deem yourself to be an (extra-constitutional) authority to decide on everything in this forum, from the subjects to be discussed, type of views to be expressed, etc., and also as an authority over all lesser beings around here.
basically i have no quarrel with partha.
Strange!
he is a newcomer with a single agenda. he has not established his bonafides and could be an avatar of the several frauds that we have had here. again he might be genuine, but till proved, folks of standing like me or you, have a responsibility to the forum, to stick with each other. inthe least. we could keep quiet.
you are only well aware, of the instigators and bogus folks who swarm here with a regularity and unfortunately, from my viewpoint, are still successful in inciting many honourable members against long standing folks like me.
i do not know how many members know of partha's antecedents and why the rush to defend someone who has posted exactly 11 posts, most of them disgustingly rude, against someone like me with over 2500 posts? and that too even without the courtesy of asking for a verification.
I do not frankly understand where I claim to be more privileged than anyone else or even come close to behaving like a moderator. Would it be fair to presume that you know enough about partha’s bonafides, atleast to the level you know of mine, to take a stand to outright attack me such.
‘I agree with you but feel that Shri Kunjuppu need (I feel should) have limited himself to clarifying his position instead of going into a sermon -cum- admonition mode. This gives an impression that Shri Kunjuppu is a more previleged member - something like a moderator. This position needs to be amended if people have to feel all members are equal in this forum.’
frankly, anyone could come here, write a few sentences of anger and in capitals, and we find a group rushing to their sympathy. for what? would we exhibit such behaviour in our own house if a stranger knocks on our door, and abuses a long standing neighbour? i think it is something that all members need to consider before jumping to conclusions. where is our sense? our sensibility?
I do not consider that this forum is a caucus for some. So long as some one comes in as a member and is not banned, he should be accepted and treated as
equal to anyone else. BTB, how are you so sure that RP has only a single agenda item? Further, even if it is so, what is the harm?
My notes on genes and DNAs are but a pale of what was discussed here about how the tambram genes is no different than most of the other groups in India. What we have in us is a belief of our ‘purity of blood’ which have been defined as bunkum by many folks here.
May be, but can we not say the same thing in more polite words? Again, our saying so may not, and need not, be accepted by some one else.
to me it is certainly an abuse, if someone is unhappy with the social transformation that is happening in india and which to him appear a abomination. if such angry folks claim to be the new guardians of hinduism, to maitain a status quo on brahmin hegemony and have only contempt for the NBs and dalits, i am afraid, it is a very bleak future for our faith. it is neither sanatana or dharma, but in my opinion, an abomination of all the best of our values.
These are unwarranted comments and could be taken to imply that folks who feel proud of their brahminhood are not patriotic. If that is your view, then your statements like "I am a Palghat pattar", etc., could also be interpreted to signify your brahmin superiority consciousness.
and your support of such attitudes is even more disheartening and disappointing. sorry sir, you failed me in my regard for you, in your support for folks like partha and his ilk. based on our dealings to date, i had expected something better.
thank you.’
Shri Kunjuppu, If I have failed your regard for me, then I could not help it. Anyway, my regard for you does not depend on whether you side with me on issues; it will continue irrespective of whether you differ from me or even criticise me, of course in polite words.
with regards,
