Jayalalithaa Bail Plea Rejected!

[biswa]

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Are you sure you read my post carefully before asking me to sing the tune of your choice?
Maybe you selectively read or in a haste.

Let me rephrase the gist of my post for you - My question was all these politicians are corrupt and they control the law and govt, hence do they have the right to find fault when they aren't saint themselves? Do they have to pack the conscience separately for this action?

Hope that helps.

I still have a problem "with the gist of your post". It is not about politicians finding fault with JJ etc. It is about rule of law and the expectations of the people. The people have a right to find fault with corrupt politicians.

Now answer my question directly. If a pick-pocket picks your pocket, will you forgive him just because "there are so many other pick-pockets ..."?

Corrupt politicians are just that: glorified pick-pockets who are picking the pockets of the public.

Also, doing good with some public money while engaging in corruption on the side is also not excusable. Remember that in the Mahabharata, even Yudhisthira was punished for his one crime even though he did good all throughout his life.

 

[Raji Ram]

Oh, yeah! Since everyone is corrupt, they can ALL go scot-free! eace:

eeyaththaip pArththu piththaLai sirikkak koodAdhu!

What a logic! :dizzy:

Last night I saw a Tamil movie. In the court scene, many witnesses have a thousand rupee note on their mouth.

So also some of the lawyers! I liked the director's touch very much! :thumb:

 

[renuka]

Oh, yeah! Since everyone is corrupt, they can ALL go scot-free! eace:

eeyaththaip pArththu piththaLai sirikkak koodAdhu!

What a logic! :dizzy:

Dear RR ji,

Prisons can be closed and re opened the day everyone becomes good!LOL

 

[renuka]

If tomorrow Sonia Gandhi is convicted, will you be singing the same tune?

Mamma Mia!

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

.....If somebody is dirty themselves, it is even belittling on themselves to laugh at other's dirt.

That's what I am saying.

Sir,

I can't agree more on this. but the judges in indian courts do not ask the appellant, are you qualified to accuse the accused. that is the flaw in indian law, hindu dharma on which our law is based. the indian law/hindu dharma does not require of the appellant any qualification to appeal.

ss had the guts to file a suit against jj, the law took its long course and eventually ended. if anyone has the guts to file a suit against all the politicians, let them.

inge ellarum pithalaigal dhaan. eeyatthai paarthu ilippadharku endha pithalaikku yogyadhai irukkiradhu!

please recollect the modi masthan (bombay don of yore) episode. when he was tried in the court of law, the first thing he did was wash the dirty linen of and tore the masks of many politicians, bureaucrats and businessmen who were his accomplices.

erigira kolliyil endha kolli nalla kolli? ellarum ore kuttayil oorugira mattaigaldhaan!

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

I still have a problem "with the gist of your post". It is not about politicians finding fault with JJ etc. It is about rule of law and the expectations of the people. The people have a right to find fault with corrupt politicians.

Now answer my question directly. If a pick-pocket picks your pocket, will you forgive him just because "there are so many other pick-pockets ..."?

Corrupt politicians are just that: glorified pick-pockets who are picking the pockets of the public.

Also, doing good with some public money while engaging in corruption on the side is also not excusable. Remember that in the Mahabharata, even Yudhisthira was punished for his one crime even though he did good all throughout his life.

biswa sir,

please try to understand what drb sir says. if you are a pick-pocket and if another pick-pocket picks a third person's pocket (or your own pocket), do you have the moral right to appeal against the other pick-pocket? perhaps as per indian/hindu dharma you may file a suit against the other pick-pocket, have him convicted and sentenced. but have you done the conscientious thing?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I am not on anybody's side.
Now its upto Ram Jeth to show his prowess. It is a slip for him too, with the bail getting denied.

He had similar slip during Acharya's bail hearing in Chennai High Court.

 

[biswa]

Regardless of who is prosecuting whom, is it not a benefit to society if there are fewer pickpockets in the world? I find it mind boggling that people are defending corruption!

 

[renuka]

I find it mind boggling that people are defending corruption!

True..we do not have to hate or judge the criminal but that does not mean we have the defend his/her crime.

 

[renuka]

I find it weird that in a country that speaks the most about Dharma..why would anyone want to defend or justify corruption?

 

[drb]

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Few clarifications first:
1. I figure you are attempting to profile me into a pro or anti- JJ fan. If it is so, afraid, got to disappoint you - I don't fit neither.

2. If you are thinking that I am trying to defend corruption etc - again, I am afraid, got to disappoint you again.

If you don't mind, review my past posts before going ahead with any of the above conclusions.
-----------------
Question
You haven't answered my question first but asking to answer yours. Seems to be a parrying attempt.
-----------------
Rephrase
Leaving that supposition aside, let me attempt to reword the substance again.....

I am endeavoring a philosophical burrow and attempting to single out contemplations of members on what they think. It is nothing to do with law, public views on corruption and so on. So here is an alternate endeavor of rephrasing -----

" If a criminal "A" is given a chance to send an another criminal "B" to guillotine, would it say it is ethically a faithful and sensible thing to do by criminal "A" ?"

Much thanks to you, Brahmachari'ji - your post #31 helped me to reword the inquiry once more.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I still have a problem "with the gist of your post". It is not about politicians finding fault with JJ etc. It is about rule of law and the expectations of the people. The people have a right to find fault with corrupt politicians.

Now answer my question directly. If a pick-pocket picks your pocket, will you forgive him just because "there are so many other pick-pockets ..."?

Corrupt politicians are just that: glorified pick-pockets who are picking the pockets of the public.

Also, doing good with some public money while engaging in corruption on the side is also not excusable. Remember that in the Mahabharata, even Yudhisthira was punished for his one crime even though he did good all throughout his life.

 

[renuka]

biswa sir,

please try to understand what drb sir says. if you are a pick-pocket and if another pick-pocket picks a third person's pocket (or your own pocket), do you have the moral right to appeal against the other pick-pocket? perhaps as per indian/hindu dharma you may file a suit against the other pick-pocket, have him convicted and sentenced. but have you done the conscientious thing?

Just say its Criminal A who managed to send Criminal B to jail.

Why drag in ethics and conscience here..all I can say is Criminal A had a great Lawyer!

 

[drb]

Sir,
I can't agree more on this. but the judges in indian courts do not ask the appellant, are you qualified to accuse the accused. that is the flaw in indian law, hindu dharma on which our law is based. the indian law/hindu dharma does not require of the appellant any qualification to appeal.
ss had the guts to file a suit against jj, the law took its long course and eventually ended. if anyone has the guts to file a suit against all the politicians, let them.
inge ellarum pithalaigal dhaan. eeyatthai paarthu ilippadharku endha pithalaikku yogyadhai irukkiradhu!
please recollect the modi masthan (bombay don of yore) episode. when he was tried in the court of law, the first thing he did was wash the dirty linen of and tore the masks of many politicians, bureaucrats and businessmen who were his accomplices.
erigira kolliyil endha kolli nalla kolli? ellarum ore kuttayil oorugira mattaigaldhaan!

Exactly!!. What you sow is what you reap. I have no problems with that.
Just trying to assess the state of mind of a corrupt one, trying to judge the other corrupt. I have no facts on SS. Maybe he is clean. Maybe not. But for sure, he knows.

 

[renuka]

Originally Posted by BRAHMACHARI
Sir,
I can't agree more on this. but the judges in indian courts do not ask the appellant, are you qualified to accuse the accused. that is the flaw in indian law, hindu dharma on which our law is based. the indian law/hindu dharma does not require of the appellant any qualification to appeal.

Dear Sir,

Then someone has to ask the Judge if he is even qualified to ask this question.

Then the questioning will go on and on and only finally God will be able to answer...till then all criminals can be partying all their life.

Now I know why they say Justice is Blind..its not that Justice is Impartial but its just that we humans only want to see what we want to see and turn a blind eye when we have vested interest.

 

[Jaykay767]

Drb – you are a very good person with a lot of humanity & compassion !

Hence you rightly feel it is wrong to put JJ in jail when she has done so much good after some clear mistakes in the past.

And most importantly it is wrong to only jail JJ when the vast majority of bigger crooks are roaming free & lording over others!!

You will only be wasting time arguing with people who do not understand humanity, compassion etc..


Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Drb – Compassion to fellow human beings is great virtue& this is what protected us all through history !!. as you can see, ourlanguages, traditions, culture, scriptures, literature – almost everything survivedintact despite so many invasions right through history !!

Great things happen to good people !!

Have a good day !!

 

[renuka]

Hence you rightly feel it is wrong to put JJ in jail when she has done so much good after some clear mistakes in the past.

And most importantly it is wrong to only jail JJ when the vast majority of bigger crooks are roaming free & lording over others!!

You will only be wasting time arguing with people who do not understand humanity, compassion etc..


Cheers,

dear JK,

I only see partial logic in your posts.

Everyone has their good side and their dark side.

But that does not mean anyone is above the law.

I have seen even the best of doctors with the most compassion and perfect track record..if becos of sheer bad luck one case he handles lands him in court for negligence..his perfect past record will be of no help.

He will be trialed only for the case he so called poorly handled.

He has to face the trial and all his so called past good record can not bail him out of the current situation.

Than in that case applying the same logic..why did everyone start blaming Swami Nithyananda for his act with an actress.

I can also say that Nithyananda had done a lot of charity and thats a fact..he has done a lot of charity..there is proof for this..so why that time everyone was only seeing his "crime?"

Why no one wanted to sing a tune in support him that he has done so much good in the past..dont judge him etc.

I somehow hear a very distorted song here..I cant even make out any notes..its just seems to sound like a screech of a Blue Jay.

 

[drb]

@Jaykay767,
I am not sure. Hope it isn't what I doubt it is (sarcasm) from you. If not, sorry for doubting (just a knee jerk response with this forum), thanks for the kind words (although we are all capable of receiving it), but compassion in this aspect is wrong.
I am trying to assess the state of mind on a philosophical note.

 

[Jaykay767]

Drb, To clarify, absolutely no sarcasm, I was being very positive !. Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka –

India has a long history of compassion as you can seemany great such instances in our history!. Nobody is arguing that some peopleare above the law. But what is law ???. it is a set of rules made by us –people !!

So we in India must rule based on compassion, this maynot work for other countries & societies.

Agree on Nithyananda, to me, he is a very good guy whohas done a lot of charity. To my knowledge, no girl involved has accused him ofrape or molestation. All he did was indulge in consensual relationships. But peoplegot outraged because he was also a religious leader which is not correct !!.

Cheers,

 

[renuka]

Renuka –

India has a long history of compassion as you can seemany great such instances in our history!. Nobody is arguing that some peopleare above the law. But what is law ???. it is a set of rules made by us –people !!

So we in India must rule based on compassion, this maynot work for other countries & societies.

Agree on Nithyananda, to me, he is a very good guy whohas done a lot of charity. To my knowledge, no girl involved has accused him ofrape or molestation. All he did was indulge in consensual relationships. But peoplegot outraged because he was also a religious leader which is not correct !!.

Cheers,

Dear JK,

Going by this logic...technically there is no crime and no criminal.

A rapist too might start saying that he has done a lot of good in the past and does not deserve to be jailed.

Then in that case there should be no army..for there are no enemies.

An enemy could have also done a lot of good back in his country.

Also then ISIL/ISIS can also claim they are also good people fighting for their rights.

Wow overnight the the Golden Era has dawned.

We do not need the Kalki Avatar anymore.

We have established Mama Dharma(My Dharma)..its my way!

 

[sarang]

1. As per law the prosecution has to prove that her assets are disproportionately high, compare to her known sources of income. It need not prove she was corrupt - that this income was earned by doing some service or coruupt practice.
2. The defense has to prove that the income was from tracable and legal sources. In JJ's case, it could not and did not prove conclusively. There was no valid document trace for the transactions.
3. Gangai amaran in his evidence said that he was invited to JJ's house but did not meet JJ. He was coerced and forced to sell his property of about 21 acres for 7 lakhs. The deed were prepared by jaya's foster son and brought to his house for signature.
4. The judge concluded that JJ got many donations after she became CM, and inferred that this kind of gift were offered for favours done or to be done. I do not think there was any direct witness.

The tv media, especially the sun channel had a field day when raids were done; the tv reporter went to all rooms with the authorities, showed live pictures of wardrobe full of sarees, footwear, jewellery and luxury goods. Perhaps showing a raid live was specially done for JJ and nobody else.

It is the general opinion that her case was handled by her legal team and made it worse by seeking unnecessary delay at every stage. It seems she will spend the diwali in jail, as she made kanchi shankaracharya to spend diwali in jail.

 

[sarang]

Has JJ confessed to her crimes and begged for mercy?

You got it right. For prayaschita, acceptance and seeking forgiveness is a must. Sentence can be moderated only if she accepts her guilt.

 

[sangom]

I am not on anybody's side.
But, it seems to me, that JJ has majority public sympathy and not hatred. Which itself has stunned the opposing parties.
She has turned around in the past 18 years and has done good things for TN rather than increasing personal wealth like other parties.
This is quite evident from absolute silence from the other 'major' party since her arrest. Days are counted for somebody else too.

Now its upto Ram Jeth to show his prowess. It is a slip for him too, with the bail getting denied.

When Laloo Prasad Yadav, Suresh Kalmadi, etc., can get bail, I don't think the Supreme Court will disallow bail to JJ; it is only a matter of time. But, these present developments will embitter relationships between Tamilians (JJ supporters) and the Kannadigas or Tamilians coming from Bengaluru side. How this will actually play out, we can't predict now.

 

[mkrishna100]

The Verdict in Jayalalitha's appeal at the Bangalore High Court will decide her political future . If the verdict goes against her then legally she can challenge it in the Supreme Court but a negative verdict at the Bangalore High Court will give a big blow to her and that will see many AIADMK people deserting her as no one likes to stay on a sinking ship . Till the Verdict of her appeal in Bangalore High Court is out we have to wait and watch . Regarding getting bail at Supreme court I feel she will get it in due course at least on health reasons but that is nothing to rejoice . The main thing to watch is the verdict of her appeal at the Bangalore High Court .