kuruvi kootam

[Raji Ram]

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.......... In today’s world, nothing makes a born Brahmin superior to his/her fellow beings. It is time Brahmins accept it.........

Dear Siva Sir,

Born brahmins do not consider themselves superior to anyone. Otherwise, how will so many I C and I R weddings happen?
Choice of spouse is based on the financial position and good looks and nothing else! We are globalizing! :grouphug:

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I suppose choice of spouse is not the only thing Brahmins are concerned with. Globalising to me is not just the physical movement. One has to broaden one's mental horizons. And then not every one is globalising.

 

[venkat2206]

TBS garu..we have to face the fact that in those days no one practiced contraception, working hours were shorter, no traffic jams,TV did not have so many channels,no internet etc..so people had much more time for things we do not have time for now!!LOL Ha Ha Ha..

Fully acceptable post. However, as we are 8 brothers and sisters today whenever we meet for any family functions we are really having fantastic time. We enjoyed much more during our family outings - I alreay shared my experience of Kasi visit and Vaishnodevi visit in this forum under different threads. Whether our childrent will get the same enjoyment is a BIG ???

Venkat K

 

[prasad1]

Dear Siva Sir,

Born brahmins do not consider themselves superior to anyone. Otherwise, how will so many I C and I R weddings happen?
Choice of spouse is based on the financial position and good looks and nothing else! We are globalizing! :grouphug:

Ms. Raji,
You have been on this site for sometime, do you really think that born-brahmins do not have a chip on their shoulders. Most of them are crying for forgotten rituals, and practices. The girls are smarter, and giving their offspring a leg up by finding suitable match. (natural selection is always by the female of the species).

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... Most of them are crying for forgotten rituals, and practices.

Yes. Many brahmins all over the world do NOT want to practice the brahmin way of living! Leave alone daily rituals like

sandhyAvandhanam. Many men take pride in saying that they do not wear the pooNal and relish hot drinks and non veg

food!! IMHO, one who is a God believer, non drinker, non smoker and 'Eka pathni vrathan' can call himself a brahmin!

Now-a-days, we may have to extend this rule to women too: One who is a God believer, non drinker, non smoker and

'Eka pursha vrathi(??)' is a brahmin!!


We had a family friend who was a muslim by birth but fitted the above description. My father used to fondly call him

'VahAb Iyer'! He was so close to my father that he was NOT alive to hear the new of the demise of my father.

He passed away in our village the very next day! :thumb:

 

[renuka]

Fully acceptable post. However, as we are 8 brothers and sisters today whenever we meet for any family functions we are really having fantastic time. We enjoyed much more during our family outings - I alreay shared my experience of Kasi visit and Vaishnodevi visit in this forum under different threads. Whether our childrent will get the same enjoyment is a BIG ???

Venkat K

Don't worry..each generation defines happiness differently.

Our children might think "OMG can you imagine when our parents were kids there was no internet? Can you imagine they did not handphones or Facebook? Thank God we were born now..how lame to be born in their era?"

Believe me that's how kids think.

I have an uncle(my aunts husband..whom I can't stand anyway) who told me that you only have one child so for Diwali etc next time you won't have all sound of many kids running around and when you are old it will be a quiet situation for Diwali.

He said he likes sound and noise at home during Diwali and he went on bugging me till I got real fed up.

One fine day I told him..if you really want sound go buy a house near a Railway track or an Airport!

I wanted to tell him that for funerals too we can employ Kuttu dance troop for the famous "dead body dance!" LOL!! if we really want sound.Ha Ha Ha

 

[zebra16]

I think the Brahmin community earned its respect because of the knowledge it possessed. But knowledge brought with it pedantry and superiority complex. In the meantime, Vedic knowledge sort of became redundant and subjects of economic value gained importance. Other communities have also proved to be equally good, if not better in these subjects. So, Brahmins have become ordinary. But their past pride does not allow accepting the reality.

This thread speaks about some introspection, so here are a few points for introspection.

a) Does knowledge per se gives a superiority complex or whether "others" praising the knowledge sky high (even when not warranted) gives rise to such a complex?
My daughter used to get 100% marks in maths in school for quite sometime. It was not such a big deal for us parents so there was no ego inflating. However in one or two social functions it got high-lighted and may daughter started walking on clouds and it is taking quite a toll to bring her back to the ground. Who is at fault? The knowledge by itself or the unadulterated and unnecessary praise and adulation by "others"?

2. Whether the entire corpus of veda is redundant or at least some portion of it is valid even today? Has someone tried to extract or bifurcate the vedas into useful and (currently) useless portions?

3. Why is that only brahmanic literature of yester years are surviving? Sure, the brahmin community developed some scheme or memorisation and transmission. What stopped the other communities from developing their own literature and system of learning?

The other issue is strict rules were prescribed for Brahmins, e.g., no alcohol, no meat, discipline, fasting, praying, rituals, etc. Brahmins of today do not want such a hardship. Many of them also indulge in all the vices and do not even wear the poonool leave along doing sandhya vandanam. It has been long time since many Brahmins left the habit of doing tharpanams and shraardhams. But still they want to be accorded special status just because they are born Brahmins.

All these rituals of sandhya-vandanam, tarpanam or no alcohol, no meat etc. are injunctions of vedas, right? If the vedas are redundant, they why harp on their non-performance or voilation?

Regarding sandhya-vandanam, when I tried to teach it to my nephew, he asked the symbolism and the purpose behind doing it. He was in VI standard at that time and the general science had already taught him that sun never sets and rises and it is an illusion from earth's view. Do you think he bought the story of some rakshas chasing the sun and my giving arghyam temporarily maims the rakshas?

The only solution possible for us is to scrutinise the vedas etc. and separate wheat from chaff.

Most Brahmins do not choose the profession of priest by choice. They do not even want to have marriage alliances with such priests. But yet, they take pride that they are the priest community. Why this hypocrisy?

The reason they do not chose the profession of priest by choice is that we gruhasthas treat them like dirt and scoff at their knowledge. At the same time we parrot out that veda is knowledge embodied and also simultaneously say or think veda is redundant. If gruhasthas do not give respect of the priests, who else will give them? We are the ones that is practicing the hypocrisy.

In today’s world, nothing makes a born Brahmin superior to his/her fellow beings. It is time Brahmins accept it.

Each one speaks from his own experience and I am no one to question the other person's perception. My experience is that for most brahmins have been humble and most of them are dirt poor with very little chances of improving their livelyhoods.

Some of the perceived sense of snobbery of brahmins also arise from these internet chat rooms or message boards. I have been a member of this forum for the last 4 years and have seen some people change their opinion of brahmins from being humble to haughty after reading the postings here, whereas on ground no change has taken place.

Our hypocrisy can be best gauged from the fact that on the hand we we want the brahmins to be expert in vedas, be ritualistic and performing every ritual from trikAla sandhya to all the yajnas as also tarpanam and shraddham etc. and we also they want them to excel in science faculty and win nobel awards. We bemoan that there are only 3 TBs in nobel list and also we are quick to castigate them for crossing the seas

vgane has a point in post 40:

“What is required is introspection by the community...We may have the education & employment; but if we lose the roots of our culture then we would be the ultimate losers”.

I have given my intospection. Let me see how the discussion moves forward.

 

[renuka]

3. Why is that only brahmanic literature of yester years are surviving? Sure, the brahmin community developed some scheme or memorisation and transmission. What stopped the other communities from developing their own literature and system of learning?

What is Brahminical Literature?

I hope you do not mean the Vedas!!LOL

Vedas is Universal and does NOT belong to anyone except God.

I am also wondering what is Non Brahminical Literature?

My dear...you have forgotten that it is the Svadharma of the Brahmin to be retaining and transmitting God given knowledge for the benefit of the world.

Other caste for example a Cobbler would surely have his method of transmitting knowledge about making the best shoes that can be worn by other communities too.

The Gold smith will have his method of transmitting knowledge to make the best gold ornaments for every other community to wear.

Society was meant to work as a team and not divide and rule.

 

[zebra16]

Other caste for example a Cobbler would surely have his method of transmitting knowledge about making the best shoes that can be worn by other communities too.

The Gold smith will have his method of transmitting knowledge to make the best gold ornaments for every other community to wear.

You may be right with the examples of cobbler and gold-smith etc. but I want hard evidence of their literature. For example, I want to have evidence of literature that a gold smith used to pass on his knowledge. Then only I can infer that he was open minded and was not averse to his knowledge being used by others than his chosen ones.

Or let me take the case of medicine in ancient India, which requires at least some documentation. We have some evidence of literature by Sushruta, Dhanvantari, charaka etc. Now the conventional wisdom brackets them as brahmins.

We also have Manu speaking disparagingly of those engaged in medical profession. My point is that if Manu was taken seriously at least some brahmins would have left the profession creating space for "others" . Who were the others? Where are their contributions documented?

If one says vedas are not brahminical literature, then they should not bash brahmins using Manu as a stick and quote his dharma-shastras at the drop of the hat.

Although this message is in response to yours, I am being explicit here that this message is NOT personally addressed to you.

 

[renuka]

You may be right with the examples of cobbler and gold-smith etc. but I want hard evidence of their literature. For example, I want to have evidence of literature that a gold smith used to pass on his knowledge. Then only I can infer that he was open minded and was not averse to his knowledge being used by others than his chosen ones.

Or let me take the case of medicine in ancient India, which requires at least some documentation. We have some evidence of literature by Sushruta, Dhanvantari, charaka etc. Now the conventional wisdom brackets them as brahmins.

We also have Manu speaking disparagingly of those engaged in medical profession. My point is that if Manu was taken seriously at least some brahmins would have left the profession creating space for "others" . Who are they? Where are their contributions documented?

If one says vedas are not brahminical literature, then they should not bash brahmins using Manu as a stick and quote his dharma-shastras at the drop of the hat.

Although this message is in response to yours, I am being explicit here that this message is NOT personally addressed to you.

You see most cobblers were mostly not well educated to read and write so they employed the "mouth to ear" and practical hands on approach to pass on their trade.

You see each trade in the past had a distinct caste identity so if some non cobbler caste wanted to learn the trade he would be shunned by society hence no one wanted to venture into each others profession.

But you see now anyone can be a gold smith cos trained skilled workers are used these days from any caste (out here where I live).

Yes you are right..no one should bash brahmins cos Vedas is Universal.
Smirtis are man written I think..so if anyone wants to bash they should bash only Manu and his vamsham but too bad Manusya means all those born from Manu and that makes the whole Human race Manusya.

So who to bash??

Interestingly enough the Malay Language word for Human Being is Manusia.

 

[sarang]

What special status? They do not want reservation in education and jobs or in power sharing as many communities and other religionists clamour.

One has to be proud of his birth, parents, lineage and everything else he values. If one is praised for being a proud indian, proud tamilian, proud professional, proud don-boscoean, then what is there to be despised if he claims to be a proud brahmin.

Have you ever come across a person - indian or pio - from other communities who are so self-despising as brahmins are? It will be difficult to find such people. But I have come across many non brahmins - professionals, teachers, and entrepreneurs - who respect their castes and even say that they have little respect for the brahmin-claimants who move far away from their traditional ways and boast of wine and beef gluttony. Profession or vocation is not an issue because the tools of the trade are available to all.
In the past all, though following different vocations and different every day personal religious practices lived in harmony. There was no clash of inter caste caultures.

So, if some brahmins live a life of strict adherence to their chosen norms, and are proud of it, so be it. The society will not collapse. But if the pios or indians sneer at or want to destroy the culture, it is open to censure.

Brahmins have faced many threats in the past too, mass murder and dispossession of property by hostile invaders and have survived. I am sure they will survive the cultural assault as well.

Let traditional brahmins live the way they value; certainly their values are not imposed on others including ex or partial brahmins.

But still they want to be accorded special status just because they are born Brahmins.
But yet, they take pride that they are the priest community. Why this hypocrisy?

In today’s world, nothing makes a born Brahmin superior to his/her fellow beings. It is time Brahmins accept it.
losers”.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Post 57 by zebra16 and post 61 by sarang

Though you have reproduced my post, I still think your post is not exactly a poser to me. Nevertheless, I want to make a few issues clear.

I am a born Brahmin and live a Brahmin life and am proud of being a Brahmin. I do Sandyavandanam 3 times a day, chant slokas every day and do tharpanams and shraardhams. I also inculcate (Brahminical) values in my children. I would live this life till my death. But this is all at a personal level - that of me and my family. I don't expect any recognition or special status for doing these things. They are just my duty. When I look at outside my little family, I see many Brahmins having utter disregard for rituals. Like Mrs.RR has mentioned, they even proudly claim that they do not care to do sandyavandanam, etc. I have seen 60+ aged Brahmin not bothered to do annual ceremony to his parents and even was eating normal food. I have also seen such Brahmins to indulge in all "worldly pleasures". And yet these so called Brahmins talk ill of so-called NBs.

I read in one of the books where Kanchi Mahaperiyava was quoted as saying that Brahmins need to be poor. He should not be materialistic. (I started a thread by the name "Can Brahmins be wealthy?"). What is happening today? Brahmins (including me) are chasing money. They love luxury. See Brahmin marriages. They dance (men and women together). Is this Brahminism? What happens in Kanchi Mutt or when the swamiji of the mutt visits a place? Brahmins, proudly displaying their half bare body, would cordon that area and would send out a message that it is their world. What is this? A scene from the Rajinikanth movie "Raghavendrar" comes to my mind as I write these lines.

My point is that the ordinary Brahmins themselves do not value the profession of priest. That is what zebra16 has also echoed. Where I differ from zebra16 is that I do not think that the rituals are imposed by Vedas. Experts can clarify.

I am very much concerned about Brahmin community and am making financial aid for Brahminical practices. But at the same time, I want this community to reconcile to reality and safeguard their custom. I understand system like reservation is demoralising to the Brahmin community. But we have the strength to come out of any adversity and we are already making progress in this direction. I understand that there is a big chunk of Brahmins living in dirt poverty. Again, how many Brahmins are prepared to cut their luxury and make a difference in the life of such poor Brahmins? It is a common knowledge that NBs give more dakshinai than Brahmins.

While it is a privilege to be a Brahmin (if one has happiness practicing the rituals), it also involves painstaking effort and steadfastness. My worry is that many Brahmins just harp on the first part alone. So, I am not dispising Brahmins. I am just sharing my concern that they are in such a state.

 

[zebra16]

Where I differ from zebra16 is that I do not think that the rituals are imposed by Vedas. Experts can clarify.

I would like to reply to this point before others.

While I am no expert to offer clarifications, I am thoroughly convinced that the rituals are imposed by vedas. Sri Sangom, when he was active, had written extensively, especially on the matter of tharpaNam and Shraddham.

In case you are interested from where the mantras of sandhyA-vandanam, tarpaNam, Shraddham etc. are culled, I can give you the mantra no., khanda no. anuvaka no. of the relevant portion of the mantras from samhita/bramahaNa/ aranyaka bhaga of the vedas.

In case you are interested, please let me know.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I would like to reply to this point before others.

While I am no expert to offer clarifications, I am thoroughly convinced that the rituals are imposed by vedas. Sri Sangom, when he was active, had written extensively, especially on the matter of tharpaNam and Shraddham.

In case you are interested from where the mantras of sandhyA-vandanam, tarpaNam, Shraddham etc. are culled, I can give you the mantra no., khanda no. anuvaka no. of the relevant portion of the mantras from samhita/bramahaNa/ aranyaka bhaga of the vedas.

In case you are interested, please let me know.

Yes, I am interested. I would appreciate your inputs. Thank you in advance.

 

[ozone]

puna: puna: anekadha janitwa kenaapi punya karma visheshena idaaneentana maanushye dwijanma visesham praaptavata:

 

[tks]

Post 57 by zebra16 and post 61 by sarang

I do not think that the rituals are imposed by Vedas. Experts can clarify.

Let me share my non-expert understanding.

Hindu rituals properly practiced by some (Brahmins and others) are based on the rituals *described but not prescribed* in the Vedas. There is no imposition which will only come about if there is a mandate to achieve a goal (like going to a place called 'heaven' in other religious traditions for example).

For legitimate pursuits of Artha (security) and Kama (desires) without violating Dharma there are Upasanas described in the Vedas.

One cannot set up a scientific system to objectively verify intended effects of certain rituals (which all translate effectively to some form of prayer) . An example might be a ritual done to get rain to happen in a place affected by famine. But subjectively many Bhaktathas will say that there is that intended effect. Such ritual are described but not imposed on anyone in the Vedas.

The rituals described in the Vedas can be compared to items available in a super market . I heard this metaphor some years ago but do not remember where. I often wonder who buys all these items in a supermarket and then at a check out counter I find many people buying things I would never consider getting.

As a Vegetarian, I am interested in vegetables and fruits which I may think are essential items for day today consumption and the supermarket does provide those items. These can be compared to daily ritualistic prayers described in Vedas like Sandhayavandhanam. Brahmins as part of tradition may have embraced these rituals as a way of getting prepared in life for receiving knowledge at a later time. But Vedic rituals are available for anyone and everyone. Again I do not have to establish I am a vegetarian to buy fruits and vegetables. It is available for one and all who are customers in good standing.

There were, there are and there will always be people - for want of not knowing any better - superimpose unnecessary attributes to Vedic rituals or teaching.

Vedas do not impose any ritual on anyone. The upanishads at the end of Vedas describe teaching that is about breaking away from all rituals.

 

[zebra16]

Yes, I am interested. I would appreciate your inputs. Thank you in advance.

Sri Siva,

I give herebelow the origins of the tarpaNa mantras:

1. AyAta pitaraH sOmyA gamBheeraiH.... Atharva Veda 18.4.62
2. sakrd Achinnam BarhiroorNAmrudh... Taittiriya BrahmaNam 3.7.4.10
3. UdheerathAm avara utparAsa.... Rg Veda 10.14.6.
4. angirasOnaH pitaraH navagvA aTharvANa-pitaraH - Rg Veda 10.14.6
5. Ayantu naH pitaraH sOmyAsaH......Sukla yajurveda (madhyAndina Sakha) 19.58
6. Oorjam vahantee amRtam gRtam - Sukla yajurveda (vajasaneyi samhita) 2.34
7. PitruByah SvaDhAviBhya, svaDhA namaH - Sukla Yajurveda (vaj. sam) 19.36
8. Ye cheH pitaraH yecha neHa - Rg veda 10.15.13 (in the second line slight modification is seen... the verse currently used is as appearing in Apastambha gruhya sutra)
9. maDhu vAtA RtAyathe, madhuksharanthi sinDhavaH - Rg Veda 1.90.6
10. maDhu naktham uthOshaso - Rg Veda 1.90.7
11. maDhu mAnno vanaspathiH maDhu mAm astu sooryaH - Rg Veda 1.90.8

Please let me know if you find the info. useful. On getting your response, I would give out the sources of sandhya-vandana mantras.

 

[zebra16]

I read in one of the books where Kanchi Mahaperiyava was quoted as saying that Brahmins need to be poor. He should not be materialistic. (I started a thread by the name "Can Brahmins be wealthy?"). What is happening today? Brahmins (including me) are chasing money. They love luxury. See Brahmin marriages. They dance (men and women together). Is this Brahminism? What happens in Kanchi Mutt or when the swamiji of the mutt visits a place? Brahmins, proudly displaying their half bare body, would cordon that area and would send out a message that it is their world. What is this? A scene from the Rajinikanth movie "Raghavendrar" comes to my mind as I write these lines.

Sri Siva,

I would like to take up this passage for responding.

You have stated in the past that you do sandhyA etc. as also recitation of some slokAs, mantrAs etc. as a part of daily ritual. I presume that PuruSa suktham, Sri Rudram-chamakam, Sree suktham are a part. Even if they are not, please do not worry. You can check up the following statements with anyone knowing sanskrit or even on the net.

1. The last three lines of puruSa suktham (more correctly known as uttara nArAyaNam BhAgA) reads "ishtam manishANa, amum manishANa, sarvam manishANa"

2. The second anuvaka of chamaka praSnam reads "Dhanancha mE, vaSascha mE, and continues in fourth anuvaka "rayischa mE, rAyascha mE"

3. The fourth stanza of Sree Suktham reads "mAyAntharAyAscha bAhyA alakshmeeH; the 5th states "keertimrudDhim dadAtu me" and "alakshmeem naSayamyaham" and ends with "yasyaam hiraNyam, praBhootham, gavOdAsyo aSwaan vindeyam purushAnaham" (15th anuvakam)

All the above quotations (as also there are many others that I have not quoted) asks for material comforts/wealth and the present day Brahmins are exhorted to follow this much of minimum anushTanam of reciting these sukthas.

To me, it is a no brainer that who seeks these are not intending to be "poor" (at least in the present day)

Now the question is, was the Kanchi Maha Periyava unaware of these vedic mantras when exhorting brahmins to be poor? Common sense dictates that it cannot be. The apparent discrepancy between the kanchi maha periyava's discourses and the express intent of the mantras we recite daily could be, according to my opinion:

1. The discourse was meant to the specific target group he was addressing then. The various discourses were later on compiled into a book or digest for easy reference.

2. The discourse was against excessive materialism and ever growing greed to accumulate more wealth, even at the cost of abandoning Dharma and duties.

3. To bring about a sense of humility to the audience he was speaking to.

4. The audience or some of them may be taking up vocations or professions which may be expressly prohibited in the Sastras.

All discourses are persons specific, situation specific and the intending message specific. We would be adding to our confusion if we interpret the same without knowing the context.

The corollary can always be verified. The Sringeri Acharya or the previous Pontiff (prior to Maha Periyva) of the present Acharya, have they given the same exhortation to their followers? If not, it is more than likely that the advice of a particular Seer in a particular saBha is to a specific targeted audience.

Of course, the above is just my opinion (may be immature as well) and I would strongly advise the readers to get the opinion of experts.

 

[renuka]

I wonder what is so wrong if a "True" Brahmin is rich?

Wealth in the hands of a person who has control over his senses is much better than being in the hands of a person who has no control of his senses.
Having money does not mean that a person is materialistic.
We Hindus should get rid of the thought that money is evil and becos of this thinking we do not progress either spiritually or economically.

As long we view everything external as evil we are never going to control our sense and conquer the 6 inner enemies of men.

The 6 enemies of men are listed as:

1)Kama
2)Krodha
3)Lobha
4)Moha
5)Mada
6)Matsarya.



Money is not listed.

 

[Raghy]

I wonder what is so wrong if a "True" Brahmin is rich?

Wealth in the hands of a person who has control over his senses is much better than being in the hands of a person who has no control of his senses.
Having money does not mean that a person is materialistic.
We Hindus should get rid of the thought that money is evil and becos of this thinking we do not progress either spiritually or economically.

As long we view everything external as evil we are never going to control our sense and conquer the 6 inner enemies of men.

The 6 enemies of men are listed as:

1)Kama
2)Krodha
3)Lobha
4)Moha
5)Mada
6)Matsarya.



Money is not listed.

Renuka,

Money may not be listed. But money is one of the desires under 'kama'. Kama is 'greed'. Greed can be for money. Only due to greediness people indulge in earning without taxes; by stealing; by collecting ridiculously high percentage of interest; by cheating; by corruption...... Money.. Money..... ABBA - Money Money Money (Abba-dabba-doo) - YouTube

Lobha is what? misery? to protect what?.. money .... money.. money!

Mada..... look at a persons arrogance when he/she is stinking rich!.... money ..money...

Earning money in a reasonable and lawful method is not the issue; but trying to get it under the table is the issue.......

Cheers!

 

[amala]

This reminds of Cho's Enge Brahmanan serial where the protagonist Ashok is born in a very rich Brahmin family but gives it all up in search of being a true Brahmin. He tries to live the true Brahmin life...collects alms much to the humiliation of his rich parents and famil friends.

I think being rich and having money and at the same time having your feet firmly on the ground and being magnanimous is not possible. Yes we can quote all those rich philanthropists starting from Bill Gates, but for most of us mere folk, i think money goes to people's heads and thats why Brahmins are "supposed" to not be rich.

I have a doubt if "true" brahmins are rich.....

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

Money may not be listed. But money is one of the desires under 'kama'. Kama is 'greed'. Greed can be for money. Only due to greediness people indulge in earning without taxes; by stealing; by collecting ridiculously high percentage of interest; by cheating; by corruption...... Money.. Money..... ABBA - Money Money Money (Abba-dabba-doo) - YouTube

Lobha is what? misery? to protect what?.. money .... money.. money!

Mada..... look at a persons arrogance when he/she is stinking rich!.... money ..money...

Earning money in a reasonable and lawful method is not the issue; but trying to get it under the table is the issue.......

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

Money is a reaction to action(work).
I am talking about Halal professions here.
The more dedicated one is to work..the more returns one sees.

So why get carried away with that.
I have seen people who hardly have a proper job but still arrogant.
I have seen very rich people who are real humble too.

Money has nothing to do with arrogance.
Arrogance is a sign of insecurity and low self esteem.
If a person needs money to feel a sense of achievement I guess he is really poor in self esteem.

As long as we depend on an external indicator to feel "great" we are not really happy with ourselves.

Pride and Prejudice can come in any form.

Some people are Proud of Caste.
Some people are Proud of Beauty.
Some people are Proud of Knowledge
Some people are Proud of Money..list can go on.

What I am trying to say is the True Rich who have been rich with money and Gunas for generations are usually never arrogant.

Out here in Malaysia there is a Malay term called "Orang Kaya Baru" meaning the New Rich.

These are people who have come from families that have never seen education or gunas in any form and when they strike gold they just can not handle their new found status and these are the types that are the most arrogant.

To me if you ask me..money is not really an evil.Uncontrolled desire is the real Evil.

If we are Lord of our Senses..Money will be at our feet.(this pic says it all)

​

 

[Raghy]

Dear Renuka,

I refer to your message in post # 72. i quite agree with you. When we control the money it stays curled at our feet. But due to Kama, lobha and mada qualities money can control us if we let it. That is the point I liked to high light. Earning money, even saving money is not a problem as it is. I just high lighted such persons who readily become the slave to money due to the other qualities. Otherwise I quite agree with you.

Cheers!

 

[zebra16]

I have a doubt if "true" brahmins are rich.....

I do not think there is any reasonable way to clarify your doubt. The universal definition of a "true brahmin" is lacking. If the previous threads in this forum are any indication, it showed that it is almost impossible to arrive at a consensus. When consensus eludes for arriving at the definition of a "simple brahmin", guess what the odds are while trying to define a "true brahmin"!!

The same problem will be repeated while trying to define "rich"

 

[Haridasa Siva]

zebra16:

Thank you for your posts 67 & 68. Thank you for your time and effort to share the info. I am eager to learn more. Please carry on. My chanting slokas daily only cover non-vedic slokas. They do not unfortunately include Purusha suktam, etc. Please note that I am an ordinary man with practically no knowledge of anything.ray: