• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

kuruvi kootam

Status
Not open for further replies.
I do not think there is any reasonable way to clarify your doubt. The universal definition of a "true brahmin" is lacking. If the previous threads in this forum are any indication, it showed that it is almost impossible to arrive at a consensus. When consensus eludes for arriving at the definition of a "simple brahmin", guess what the odds are while trying to define a "true brahmin"!!

The same problem will be repeated while trying to define "rich"

I couldn't agree more that "rich" and "true" are highly subjective. I was just musing aloud/rhetorical question really...
 
Aren't all slokas Vedic only? Are there non Vedic slokas? Like what, Agamic?

I was told that not all shlokas are Vedic( dont know how far it is true) for example this shloka is supposed to be Non Vedic:

|| Mangalyam tantunanena mama jeevana hetuna: kanthe badhnami subhage twam jeeva sarada satam ||
 
Aren't all slokas Vedic only? Are there non Vedic slokas? Like what, Agamic?

Like PauraNic (appearing in the purANas), tantrik (appearing in tantrik texts including bija mantras) like prAkarNa (i.e. those composed by leading spiritual personalities like Adi Sankaracharya, Sri RamanujAcjarya, Vendanta Deshikhan, etc.) as also Baudha mantras of Buddhist origins which are incorporated into Hinduism, slokas incorporated in epics like rAmAyaNam (for eg. aditya hrudayam) in MahABhArathA (like Vishnu Sahasranamam and Siva Sahasranamam) etc. and there are slokas and hymns to new deities of the pantheon like Ayyappa etc. etc.
 
Last edited:
Members,

I will just post my experience being brought up in a TB family and draw conclusions from it. I've many times been thankful to be born in such a family.

I've lived all my life in Chennai and spent my childhood in a joint family with nearly a dozen cousins. Our family consisted of my "thatha" and "patti" and my periappa and chittappa(s). We lived in a big independent house that had a mango tree, an old well, open terrace and lots of space for us to play around, and boy did we create a racket during holidays! I would term my family as orthodox, but one with an open mind set. My thatha used to advice the family on many matters which were earnestly followed by my father and his brothers. But my patti, being an house wife was the one who ran the day to day affairs of the family; infact, my thatha never made major financial contributions to the family. My patti was like the center of gravity for the whole family until she passed away a couple of years ago. We follow all religious traditions and to this day plans are made by the family elder for major functions like avani avittam, thatha/patti devasam, my father's devasam etc. We cousins (some of whom are married with kids) are pretty close with each other and share quite a strong bond. Before someone jumps the gun, joint family has its own challenges and even our family at a later time started to become a nuclear family, although we live very close by and meet almost everyday.

Now, what do I infer from this experience?

1. Upbringing and family values are the most important factors that determine (a lot of this happens automatically in a typical brahmin family) how the child evolves and interacts with the society at later parts of life.
2. Elders are like pillars to a family and without them, families are like ship without a rudder.
3. Belief in God as a higher power ensures that egos are not inflated and keeps one grounded most of the time. During difficult times, it is a source of tremendous strength. I have myself seen major crisis in my short life, but only belief in God is helping me riding the bad times.
4. A lot of these family traditions brings with it a sense of occasion, happiness and togetherness.

As I said, we were quite an orthodox set-up, but we never had any problems with people from other caste or religion. Infact, my patti used to interact quite nicely with all sorts of people. This is something that I'm proud of. My elders may not allow inter-caste/religious marriages, but they don't hate anybody. I know of many Brahmin families who have a similar structure and pattern. To me all these together and more, make up a Brahmin family.

I do not think it is possible anymore to have a proper Brahmin upbringing for various reasons.

1. Family values are no longer the priority; there are no family dynamics that are involved in urban upbringing. One utmost cares for ones parent/siblings. Even these bonds are weakening with time.
2. No elders in a family; decisions are purely taken on economic considerations.
3. Religion and God are no longer the center of ones life. Almost all pursuits are either economical or sensory.

I always compare the US (and other western countries) with India on this count. Their civic life is very orderly; there are rules and laws that strictly govern it. Step on a US road, you will realise it. But their family life is chaos; I have American friends who struggle in their life because of lack of family values. In India, the situation is reverse; our civic life is a chaos but our family life is much better. With time, it will be soon be that our family life is also a chaos. The ball has already been set rolling.

This is purely my personal experience.

Vijay
 
Mr. Vijay,
Nice post, good observation.
The converse of you point, the social life in western world is deteriorating. Look at Greece for instance.
Yes family values are changing.
Change is inevitable, so we have to adapt instead of lamenting. You can not turn the clock back.
What would be the right course for the present generation?
 
Last edited:
Members,

I will just post my experience being brought up in a TB family and draw conclusions from it. I've many times been thankful to be born in such a family.

I've lived all my life in Chennai and spent my childhood in a joint family with nearly a dozen cousins. Our family consisted of my "thatha" and "patti" and my periappa and chittappa(s). We lived in a big independent house that had a mango tree, an old well, open terrace and lots of space for us to play around, and boy did we create a racket during holidays! I would term my family as orthodox, but one with an open mind set. My thatha used to advice the family on many matters which were earnestly followed by my father and his brothers. But my patti, being an house wife was the one who ran the day to day affairs of the family; infact, my thatha never made major financial contributions to the family. My patti was like the center of gravity for the whole family until she passed away a couple of years ago. We follow all religious traditions and to this day plans are made by the family elder for major functions like avani avittam, thatha/patti devasam, my father's devasam etc. We cousins (some of whom are married with kids) are pretty close with each other and share quite a strong bond. Before someone jumps the gun, joint family has its own challenges and even our family at a later time started to become a nuclear family, although we live very close by and meet almost everyday.

Now, what do I infer from this experience?

1. Upbringing and family values are the most important factors that determine (a lot of this happens automatically in a typical brahmin family) how the child evolves and interacts with the society at later parts of life.
2. Elders are like pillars to a family and without them, families are like ship without a rudder.
3. Belief in God as a higher power ensures that egos are not inflated and keeps one grounded most of the time. During difficult times, it is a source of tremendous strength. I have myself seen major crisis in my short life, but only belief in God is helping me riding the bad times.
4. A lot of these family traditions brings with it a sense of occasion, happiness and togetherness.

As I said, we were quite an orthodox set-up, but we never had any problems with people from other caste or religion. Infact, my patti used to interact quite nicely with all sorts of people. This is something that I'm proud of. My elders may not allow inter-caste/religious marriages, but they don't hate anybody. I know of many Brahmin families who have a similar structure and pattern. To me all these together and more, make up a Brahmin family.

I do not think it is possible anymore to have a proper Brahmin upbringing for various reasons.

1. Family values are no longer the priority; there are no family dynamics that are involved in urban upbringing. One utmost cares for ones parent/siblings. Even these bonds are weakening with time.
2. No elders in a family; decisions are purely taken on economic considerations.
3. Religion and God are no longer the center of ones life. Almost all pursuits are either economical or sensory.

I always compare the US (and other western countries) with India on this count. Their civic life is very orderly; there are rules and laws that strictly govern it. Step on a US road, you will realise it. But their family life is chaos; I have American friends who struggle in their life because of lack of family values. In India, the situation is reverse; our civic life is a chaos but our family life is much better. With time, it will be soon be that our family life is also a chaos. The ball has already been set rolling.

This is purely my personal experience.

Vijay
hi
i can simply put like this......public life much better in USA.....but private life has many chaos......but in india....still private life

is better than USA...but really public life has many challenges and chaos too...here in USA....PAANCH DIN NAUKARI...EK DIN

GROCERY...EK DIN LAUNDARY....BUT IN INDIA... WHO CARES?
 
Kuruvi Kootam

Prasad-1 (quote) "A family member girl married an Anglo-sexton American in an Ashram here in USA. The swamiji did upanayanam for the boy before marriage. The boy even today does Sandyanavandanam and just changed his poonal. The kids all have Hindu names. He is studying Gita, and attends Bhajan classes. To me he is more Brahmin than lot of born-brahmins.

Another family member born-brahmin never left India, but eats meat, and refuses to come for any pujas, and makes fun of the ways of his parents. To me he is not a Brahmin.

So who is Brahmin, and what is it that we are trying to preserve?(en-quote)

I request ALL the members of this forum "Please see" this video in You tube.:-

"Search" in You Tube=> "Kuaui Monastry Gurudeva Maha Samadhi 2009
day-2"

One has to type ALL without leaving any word or Number.

One can see about 8 to 10 Anglo-Sextons reciting Rudram-Namakam-Chamakam-and Two Anglo-Sexton Youngsters performing Padha Puja for their Parama Guru with Sraddha and Bhakthi.

As Prasd ji asks "Who is Brahmin" ?

"Janmathaa Jaayathay Shudrathaha"
"Sanskaarau Dwija Ucchyethay"
"Vedha Paati Vipraahaa"
"Brahma Gjnnanaiva Braahmanaha".--Athri Samhitha

"Na Jaathi Kaaranam"
" Lokhay Kalyaana Guna Hethavaha"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is the youtube that Mr. Somayaji is talking about.
[video=youtube;RlE3fkeYMA8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlE3fkeYMA8&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
Kuruvi kootam

In Maha Bharatha in Yudhishtira-Yaksha (Dharma Raja) Samvaadham,:-

Yaksha :-" O!King!! --by birth--or by reciting scriptures regularly(Svaadhyaayena)--or by listening a lot of lectures (srunuthena) --by which means a person becomes a Brahmin ? --Tell me precisely. "

Yudhishtira:- O! Yaksha !!-Listen carefully---Neither by birth--nor by nor by extensive recitation of Scriptures-nor by listening to learned Scholars--nor by observance of celebacy nor penence-a person becomes aBrahmin--Only by HISTORY (Charithram)-conduct-character--a person becomes a Brahmin.


Bhagavat Geetha Chapter 18,Verse 42:-

"Only self control-tranquility-uprightness-patience-purity of body and mind-- makes a person a Brahmin.

But ofcourse, millions of Brahmins,even under most challenging circumstances, have lived a life to the expectations of sri.Yudhishtira and sri.Vedha Vyaasa and Bhagavat Geetha.--It is why still we are getting rains.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kuruvi Kootam

Thank you sri.Prasad ji. I do not know how to do all these Magics.
 
In Maha Bharatha in Yudhishtira-Yaksha (Dharma Raja) Samvaadham,:-

Yaksha :-" O!King!! --by birth--or by reciting scriptures regularly(Svaadhyaayena)--or by listening a lot of lectures (srunuthena) --by which means a person becomes a Brahmin ? --Tell me precisely. "

Yudhishtira:- O! Yaksha !!-Listen carefully---Neither by birth--nor by nor by extensive recitation of Scriptures-nor by listening to learned Scholars--nor by observance of celebacy nor penence-a person becomes aBrahmin--Only by HISTORY (Charithram)-conduct-character--a person becomes a Brahmin.


Bhagavat Geetha Chapter 18,Verse 42:-

"Only self control-tranquility-uprightness-patience-purity of body and mind-- makes a person a Brahmin.

But ofcourse, millions of Brahmins,even under most challenging circumstances, have lived a life to the expectations of sri.Yudhishtira and sri.Vedha Vyaasa and Bhagavat Geetha.--It is why still we are getting rains.

Sir,
You have brought new life to this thread. Thanks
 
Change is inevitable, so we have to adapt instead of lamenting. You can not turn the clock back.
What would be the right course for the present generation?

Prasad, not that all the changes are desirable. However, I think that a child who had a good moral upbringing will more often than not turn out to be a good citizen. Maybe as parents/elders, they should inculcate in the child's mind that material success is not the only objective of life; teach them family values and show them that there are things that are non-tangible but that are more valued than material success. Rest, one can just hope that nature is kind and lets the child turn out to be a good citizen and a human being.

I'm hearing great writers say that India is currently on a transitional period and this transition can be very painful. This is a period when new ideas, aspirations, expectations will fight with old ideas and beliefs that were built over centuries. This will cause great churnings within the society and will reach a crescendo before one wins over the other. As parents/elders, one can only guide the younger generation and provide them with sound emotional intelligence and mental infrastructure to fight this battle. Rest is not in our hands.

Vijay
 
I agree with all the quotes and oft repeated by philosophers and pracharaks; but what is intriguing is why no spiritual guru has gone beyond and set procedures and rituals to either declare themselves as brahmins (if they really wanted to) or initiated the deserving and willing into brahmin fold.

Till date, these quotes are used only to taunt brahmins and confuse. It will be nice if more people get 'brahminhood' by initiation in addition.

The joke circulating here - it is easy to become a brahmin; you have to say 'brahmin' when the census enumerator asks for caste.

In Maha Bharatha in Yudhishtira-Yaksha (Dharma Raja) Samvaadham,:-

Yaksha :-" O!King!! --by birth--or by reciting scriptures regularly(Svaadhyaayena)--or by listening a lot of lectures (srunuthena) --by which means a person becomes a Brahmin ? --Tell me precisely. "

Yudhishtira:- O! Yaksha !!-Listen carefully---Neither by birth--nor by nor by extensive recitation of Scriptures-nor by listening to learned Scholars--nor by observance of celebacy nor penence-a person becomes aBrahmin--Only by HISTORY (Charithram)-conduct-character--a person becomes a Brahmin.


Bhagavat Geetha Chapter 18,Verse 42:-

"Only self control-tranquility-uprightness-patience-purity of body and mind-- makes a person a Brahmin.

But ofcourse, millions of Brahmins,even under most challenging circumstances, have lived a life to the expectations of sri.Yudhishtira and sri.Vedha Vyaasa and Bhagavat Geetha.--It is why still we are getting rains.
 
Brahmanas can have wealth is they want I feel cos in Raghuvamsam there is an episode where Kautsa who had finished his studies ask his guru Varatantu how much to pay for Gurudakshina.

Varatantu told Kautsa that he does not want any dakshina and Kautsa's devotion would suffice but Kautsa goes on bugging Varatantu again and again about Guru Dakshina and Varatantu gets angry with Kautsa and says
"Give me 14 crores measurements of gold as Dakshina"

So Kautsa goes to get the money from King Raghu.

So you see Varatantu actually had 14 crores measurement of gold.!LOL
 
Sarang:-(quote) "these quotes are used only to taunt brahmins and confuse. It will be nice if more people get 'brahminhood' by initiation in addition.(En-quote)


PLEASE-Not for taunting--Maha Bharatha,Bhagavat Geetha,Athri Samhita these scripturs are only the "foundation" of Sanathana Dharmam (a.k.a.Hinduism)
Braahmanas belong to Hindu Religion Only.As Siva has said Kanchi Paramacharya Swamy has said that Brahmins should lead a life with modest means.

When the Constitution of India was drafted by the "Drafting committee", even after drafting almost 350 and above "Articles" and Sub- headings the members could NOT tie all the lose ends.They said "We leave them to the intelligence and wisdom of future generations of Indians".Similarly the Rishis also have left to the Wisdom and Intelligence of Future generations.

Secondly who can tie the "Parivattam" on whose head saying that "O! You are a Brahmin"---what are the parameters ?--it is why Maharishi Athri Samhita says "Brahma Gjnaanaiva Braahmanaha"--in "iva"=Eva in this context denotes "that alone".Honestly 99.999% of us,who call ourselves Brahmins have NOT even read even One time all the 564 Aphorisms of "Brahma Sutram "

1-1-2-Janmadyasya Yathaha
1-1-3 Saastra Yonivat
1-1-4-Tattu Samanvayat
1-1-5-Ikshather Nasabdham
1-1-9-Svapyayat
1-1-10-Gati Samnyaat

ofcourse ,I have No right to talk about others.I have NOT read even One commentary (Gloss) completely.There are about 14 Commentaries.I used to ask myself, when I have NOT done even "Brahma Vichaaram"( Brahma Gjinjaasam)--how can I say I have "Brahma Gjnaanam" --or "Brahmaanandha Anubhavam"---All 36 years of my Youth ,I was studying only H.A.Kreb's Cycle--"My Livelyhood"+ some extra money="Dhana Aagama Thrishnaam". Am I a Brahmin?.

The only satisfaction is "Out-siders" are Praising us.As Prasad ji says "Gloating".

(quote)"As meme,this spread of Hindu Conceptual tenets (Yoga-Karma-Guru=>Gooru-Punar-Janmam) augurs a more healing and soulful alternative to the mechanisation of our (Western) lives,our bodies and our minds--and promises a relief from the heavy burden of a soulless Capitalism".(en-quote) -Professor Loriliai Biernacki--Professor of Religious Studies,Colarado University--in Washington Post.
 
Prasad, not that all the changes are desirable. However, I think that a child who had a good moral upbringing will more often than not turn out to be a good citizen. Maybe as parents/elders, they should inculcate in the child's mind that material success is not the only objective of life; teach them family values and show them that there are things that are non-tangible but that are more valued than material success. Rest, one can just hope that nature is kind and lets the child turn out to be a good citizen and a human being.

I'm hearing great writers say that India is currently on a transitional period and this transition can be very painful. This is a period when new ideas, aspirations, expectations will fight with old ideas and beliefs that were built over centuries. This will cause great churnings within the society and will reach a crescendo before one wins over the other. As parents/elders, one can only guide the younger generation and provide them with sound emotional intelligence and mental infrastructure to fight this battle. Rest is not in our hands.

Vijay

Changes happen, it does not matter whether it is to our liking or not. We can provode guideline, but we can not dictate it. Similarly the younger generation may want to follow the guideline but circumstances forces them in a different direction. So we have to adapt and accept reality as it happens.
 
I agree with Mr. Somayaji's assessment. I can definitely claim the brahmin by birth status (my mother told me). That is my 1% of right to be a member of this site TB.
 
Somayaji: Your view and concern is quite valid. The solution is to find and devote more time to 'vedavicharam'. If we don't study, the deficiency is in us and this can be rectified.

Since multiple bhashyas and schools of thought are in use and practised by many, one has to choose based on his birth, family and kulacharam. I may not even venture to study shankara and madwa bhashyams because I still have a lot to learn about vishishtadwaitam. Each is an ocean, but simplified by the acharyas for our benefit.

Instead of percentages, a better classification could be - uttama, madyama and adhama brahmins, depending on their immersion in brahminical values. For me, adahma brahmins are they, who want to destroy varna system, but still refuse to call themselves as something else. If they opt out then there is no dispute, and are free to denounce.

Nowadays parivattam is tied on all vip devotees. Instead of vicharam on who is a brahmin or not, allow and encourage those who want to follow.

Sarang:-(quote) "these quotes are used only to taunt brahmins and confuse. It will be nice if more people get 'brahminhood' by initiation in addition.(En-quote)


PLEASE-Not for taunting--Maha Bharatha,Bhagavat Geetha,Athri Samhita these scripturs are only the "foundation" of Sanathana Dharmam (a.k.a.Hinduism)
Braahmanas belong to Hindu Religion Only.As Siva has said Kanchi Paramacharya Swamy has said that Brahmins should lead a life with modest means.

When the Constitution of India was drafted by the "Drafting committee", even after drafting almost 350 and above "Articles" and Sub- headings the members could NOT tie all the lose ends.They said "We leave them to the intelligence and wisdom of future generations of Indians".Similarly the Rishis also have left to the Wisdom and Intelligence of Future generations.

Secondly who can tie the "Parivattam" on whose head saying that "O! You are a Brahmin"---what are the parameters ?--it is why Maharishi Athri Samhita says "Brahma Gjnaanaiva Braahmanaha"--in "iva"=Eva in this context denotes "that alone".Honestly 99.999% of us,who call ourselves Brahmins have NOT even read even One time all the 564 Aphorisms of "Brahma Sutram "

1-1-2-Janmadyasya Yathaha
1-1-3 Saastra Yonivat
1-1-4-Tattu Samanvayat
1-1-5-Ikshather Nasabdham
1-1-9-Svapyayat
1-1-10-Gati Samnyaat

ofcourse ,I have No right to talk about others.I have NOT read even One commentary (Gloss) completely.There are about 14 Commentaries.I used to ask myself, when I have NOT done even "Brahma Vichaaram"( Brahma Gjinjaasam)--how can I say I have "Brahma Gjnaanam" --or "Brahmaanandha Anubhavam"---All 36 years of my Youth ,I was studying only H.A.Kreb's Cycle--"My Livelyhood"+ some extra money="Dhana Aagama Thrishnaam". Am I a Brahmin?.

The only satisfaction is "Out-siders" are Praising us.As Prasad ji says "Gloating".

(quote)"As meme,this spread of Hindu Conceptual tenets (Yoga-Karma-Guru=>Gooru-Punar-Janmam) augurs a more healing and soulful alternative to the mechanisation of our (Western) lives,our bodies and our minds--and promises a relief from the heavy burden of a soulless Capitalism".(en-quote) -Professor Loriliai Biernacki--Professor of Religious Studies,Colarado University--in Washington Post.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest ads

Back
Top