Let's objectively see the effect of Prayers

[ashwin_ash]

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It is not hallucinating, It is more real than the ones you think are real

Vellore in Tamilnadu is one of the hottest places in India. It faces almost 16-18 hour power cuts in summer, and even when there's power, the voltage does not support the use of aircons. Temperatures in summer regularly hit 45-48'c.

You'll be doing great service if you spend your summer in a regular household there praying for things to cool down. Who knows, the power of your prayers may even bring blizzards to Vellore. If Vellore is too far, you can try Arakonam which is much worse than Vellore. People will thank you for it. Or if you are totally convinced about your prayers, try Nagpur where the temps hit 50'c regularly.

 

[krish44]

Vellore in Tamilnadu is one of the hottest places in India. It faces almost 16-18 hour power cuts in summer, and even when there's power, the voltage does not support the use of aircons. Temperatures in summer regularly hit 45-48'c.

You'll be doing great service if you spend your summer in a regular household there praying for things to cool down. Who knows, the power of your prayers may even bring blizzards to Vellore. If Vellore is too far, you can try Arakonam which is much worse than Vellore. People will thank you for it. Or if you are totally convinced about your prayers, try Nagpur where the temps hit 50'c regularly.

ash
nice to wake up to your humourous post suggesting prayers at vellore,arakonam,nagpur to bring temperatures down.delhi is getting unseasonal rains in march . cold instead of going away is staying put. upper areas such as punjab,himachal,Jand K are having heavy rains and snowfall.Next week is holi. Basanth panchami has gone . still no spring.climate change is really hurting India.
prayers or no prayers,we have to put up with all this. we are longing for a bit of sun.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sravna Sir,

Most of us agree to wish / pray 'sarvE janA sukhinO bhavantu' but when a group starts some prayer for a better weather of a city

they live in, advises pour in dissuading the effort. Strange indeed!

BTW, the rishis lost their accumulated power ONLY by cursing others and not by praying for the welfare of others! Just a thought!

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna Sir,

they live in, advises pour in dissuading the effort. Strange indeed

That is the style of those who dissuade. They first say that nothing is possible through prayers. When something is accomplished they say that something else cannot be accomplished. If you do accomplish that something else too they say that not everything can be accomplished.

I think those who believe in god and prayers know what they are doing and it is not easy to dissuade them. Let others say what they want to if they like to sound humourous.

 

[ashwin_ash]

ash
nice to wake up to your humourous post suggesting prayers at vellore,arakonam,nagpur to bring temperatures down.delhi is getting unseasonal rains in march . cold instead of going away is staying put. upper areas such as punjab,himachal,Jand K are having heavy rains and snowfall.Next week is holi. Basanth panchami has gone . still no spring.climate change is really hurting India.
prayers or no prayers,we have to put up with all this. we are longing for a bit of sun.

South India, esp. Tamil Nadu faces summer year-long. The dust in Tamil Nadu, and in Bangalore, is to be seen to be believed. It makes me wonder how people like to live in the midst of such squalor. Rains and cold weather cause the dust to settle down, leaving lesser scope for lung problems.

If prayers are a great solution, he should spend a year or 4 in Afghanistan or Iraq praying for peace.

 

[krish44]

That is the style of those who dissuade. They first say that nothing is possible through prayers. When something is accomplished they say that something else cannot be accomplished. If you do accomplish that something else too they say that not everything can be accomplished.

I think those who believe in god and prayers know what they are doing and it is not easy to dissuade them. Let others say what they want to if they like to sound humourous.

sravnaji
you remind me of R K Narayan hero in novel guide where in Raju the tourist guide is mistaken for a holy man and villagers make him fast and pray for rain when there is drought. in the end it magically rains.
let us not discourage you . good luck in your venture.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Krish,

I did not say anyone can discourage us though there are people who always try to do that

 

[sravna]

Sorry folks for the second time and hopefully the last time. I was not able to pray for the whole of last week and are others also not praying? because the sun god was running riot during the last week with temp in the 35-36 range. Back to business now and hope others also continue with the prayers and I am sure the temp can be brought down.

 

[renuka]

Sorry folks for the second time and hopefully the last time. I was not able to pray for the whole of last week and are others also not praying? because the sun god was running riot during the last week with temp in the 35-36 range. Back to business now and hope others also continue with the prayers and I am sure the temp can be brought down.

Wow! so you feel you can over rule Surya Bhagavan??

 

[sravna]

Wow! so you feel you can over rule Surya Bhagavan??

Dear Renu,

I do not see it as overruling but Sun God fulfilling bhakthas request. Sorry if a wrong impression was conveyed

 

[sravna]

It is really good to see that the temp dropped sharply to 32 degrees today which is striking considering the high temp of the past 1 week or so and also considering the time of the year. So folks this effort of us has given me so much happiness just as it would have for you, because we can say that there is what is called as spiritual and it exercises control over physical and mental realm. I am really so elated. Thank you all folks.

I have to personally opt out of the effort now as I will have to start work on a major project very soon. But I end my effort on a buoyant thought that the essence of what is said in the scriptures may very well be true.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sravna Sir,

It seems Sun God grants boon ONLY to you! We are not as efficient in pacifying Him.

If you opt out, Sing. Chennaiites are helpless! :help:

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna Sir,

It seems Sun God grants boon ONLY to you! We are not as efficient in pacifying Him.

If you opt out, Sing. Chennaiites are helpless! :help:

OK RR madam I will try to put in as much time as possible

 

[renuka]

It is really good to see that the temp dropped sharply to 32 degrees today which is striking considering the high temp of the past 1 week or so and also considering the time of the year. So folks this effort of us has given me so much happiness just as it would have for you, because we can say that there is what is called as spiritual and it exercises control over physical and mental realm. I am really so elated. Thank you all folks.

I have to personally opt out of the effort now as I will have to start work on a major project very soon. But I end my effort on a buoyant thought that the essence of what is said in the scriptures may very well be true.

Dear Sravna,

I am just going to say it today..no more sugar coating my words.

Sravna! Wake Up!

Dont let yourself drift into the zones of no return.

Temperatures go up and down on daily basis.

For the past 3 days the temperatures here were almost 38 C and it rained like hell yesterday and temperature was some 28C yesterday.

Please..realize that is the force of nature..NOTHING in is YOUR hands Sravna.

You are deluded to feel or even think that you brought down the temperature.

If you sincerely believe in God as you claim you wont be insulting HIM by saying that your efforts made the temperature drop.

There are enough people who will be cheering you "yes Sravna,.yes Sravna..yes you can" and also claim to join in the prayer and you might feel you have a cult following but the fact remains that they are well within the realms of reality and where else you seem to have to have gone into the realm of delusion and imagination.

You might not like what I wrote and I dont mind you even getting angry with me but please wake up before its too late.

This is my sincere advise as a medical professional...all of us have a zany or nutty side but just dont let it go out of control.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renu,

I too do not want to be out of touch with reality. But no one can be sure that they know the reality very well. So I have to be convinced that spiritual powers do not exist. I will then definitely give up that idea

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

I am not cheering Sravna Sir but trying to make him understand that we can ONLY pray but God has HIS decision!

The weather forecast for five days in Sing. Chennai is 34 today and 37 for the following four days!

Let us see IF prayers can bring the temperature down! ray:

Source: Weather in Chennai - AccuWeather Forecast

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

I too do not want to be out of touch with reality. But no one can be sure that they know the reality very well. So I have to be convinced that spiritual powers do not exist. I will then definitely give up that idea

Dear Sravna,

I think I have said this before..the quest to know spiritual powers can drag us away from the right path.

There was a story where Ramakrishna Paramhansa removed the powers of one of his disciples who could make light appear from his hand cos he said that the disciple was not concentrating on God anymore and was getting too involved in developing his spiritual powers.

I am not saying that spiritual powers do not exists but do not let that be our obsession in life cos our mind would be dragged down to mundane levels and steered away from the path that God intended us to know.

Why do you want to be convinced that spiritual powers do not exists? Why do you need proof?

Surely some power beyond our mind and senses exists..but do we really have to know what it is and waste our time finding out? Its like trying to find out the beginning of Maya.

BTW can you name me even one bonafide Swami ji who emphasizes on harnessing and using spiritual powers? No isnt it?

Cos all these causes mental agitation and that is totally Rajas.

I know you prefer a Sattva mental disposition..so let everything follow its natural cause.

We only need to do our duty right...that's all.

By now you should be convinced that hardly anyone in the world has spiritual powers cos no one can locate the missing Msian plane till now.

 

[tks]

Dear Renu,

I too do not want to be out of touch with reality. But no one can be sure that they know the reality very well. So I have to be convinced that spiritual powers do not exist. I will then definitely give up that idea

Sri Sravana

The last person you want any suggestion in this forum is from me!

What Dr Renu wrote in post #89 was out of kindness and what I write here is for the same reason even if you dont accept it.
You dont need anyone's kindness but I explained myself why I am posting this message.

None of our teachings talk about any super natural powers. You have to leave out Puranas and embellishments in great epics which make the stories interesting.

There is no support for super natural powers (that defy law of nature). Great teachers like Ramakrishna Pramahamsa who has stated he 'talked' to Kali advised against thinking about super natural powers etc because they take one away from true learning and true effort.

There is no rational way to get oneself out of a belief. So you can continue to believe that you possess some powers that others may not understand. Saying you have support from our scriptures is incorrect and cannot be part of the delusion.

Even if you continue to believe in your powers of spirit, one teaching should be providing a wake up call. That is the teaching of Sri Krishna - he talks only about taking ownership to our will based action and not take ownership to results because results are determined by many other factors. So the weather changes have nothing to do with any of our action - thinking that prayer it contributed is fine, but that kind of thinking is not dangerous so long you know it is just a belief (and not rational).

So even if you possess any power there is no way to correlate or assume those your calling made a difference to affecting natural laws and its impact (like weather).

I think some times we do not realize how far deep we have gone into.

My suggestion is to think about this and scale back those beliefs - you dont have to eliminate them

I would heed Dr Renu's suggestion in this instance if I were you - I have stated this for whatever it is worth.

I know you will not listen to this - but I did try

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TKS, Renu,

I appreciate your advice to not get into a delusion. But to me it really seems ironical that what I see as reality should be seen as delusion and vice versa. The great spiritual masters of the past have convincingly argued for the existence of the spiritual and saw the phsyical world only as a delusion. So is it not true that those who believe only in the physical forces are actually deluded?

Let us set aside for a moment my belief that I possess spiritual powers. Imagine what would a clear demonstration of the existence of spiritual forces do? It would create the awareness that there is something higher than what we actually perceive by the senses and that I think would be a good thing to happen. So seeking whether spiritual forces exist or not need not be and in my case not for ego satisfaction.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I think I have said this before..the quest to know spiritual powers can drag us away from the right path.

There was a story where Ramakrishna Paramhansa removed the powers of one of his disciples who could make light appear from his hand cos he said that the disciple was not concentrating on God anymore and was getting too involved in developing his spiritual powers.

I am not saying that spiritual powers do not exists but do not let that be our obsession in life cos our mind would be dragged down to mundane levels and steered away from the path that God intended us to know.

Why do you want to be convinced that spiritual powers do not exists? Why do you need proof?

Surely some power beyond our mind and senses exists..but do we really have to know what it is and waste our time finding out? Its like trying to find out the beginning of Maya.

BTW can you name me even one bonafide Swami ji who emphasizes on harnessing and using spiritual powers? No isnt it?

Cos all these causes mental agitation and that is totally Rajas.

I know you prefer a Sattva mental disposition..so let everything follow its natural cause.

We only need to do our duty right...that's all.

By now you should be convinced that hardly anyone in the world has spiritual powers cos no one can locate the missing Msian plane till now.

Dear Renu,

Seeking whether spiritual force exists or not need not be for ego satisfaction. For those who believe that there is nothing beyond the physical forces this would be ample demonstration that they are dead wrong. If that can bring about an improvement in their attitude then why not go about demonstrating the existence of spiritual power?

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri TKS, Renu,

I appreciate your advice to not get into a delusion. But to me it really seems ironical that what I see as reality should be seen as delusion and vice versa. The great spiritual masters of the past have convincingly argued for the existence of the spiritual and saw the phsyical world only as a delusion. So is it not true that those who believe only in the physical forces are actually deluded?

Let us set aside for a moment my belief that I possess spiritual powers. Imagine what would a clear demonstration of the existence of spiritual forces do? It would create the awareness that there is something higher than what we actually perceive by the senses and that I think would be a good thing to happen. So seeking whether spiritual forces exist or not need not be and in my case not for ego satisfaction.

Dear Sravna,

I too see spiritual power as a reality but the difference is I do not go around claiming that I brought down the temperature without any solid evidence that I did something.

How are you so sure that you brought down the temperature and the temperature did not come down cos of natural causes?

When others were praying too and you did not pray the temperatures shot up..so why didnt it work when others were praying?

Is it becos you have more power than others?

Not true isnt it.

It just goes to show that we can only pray for something but the final results is not in our hands.

That's all we need to know.

There is no need to demonstrate to others that spiritual powers exists..most of us are aware it does..just that we do not feel we have to prove anything to anyone.

There are many people who can even bend spoons by looking at it and also start fire with just staring at any object...lots of powers exists and everyone knows that.

So take the burden off your shoulders..you do not need to be Atlas to carry the burden of the world to prove something that we already know.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Seeking whether spiritual force exists or not need not be for ego satisfaction. For those who believe that there is nothing beyond the physical forces this would be ample demonstration that they are dead wrong. If that can bring about an improvement in their attitude then why not go about demonstrating the existence of spiritual power?

Ok in that case you find the plane and I will start praying to you!LOL

Sravna..you really dont want to 'listen' to anyone.More than this I cant do anything.

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS, Renu,

I appreciate your advice to not get into a delusion. But to me it really seems ironical that what I see as reality should be seen as delusion and vice versa. The great spiritual masters of the past have convincingly argued for the existence of the spiritual and saw the phsyical world only as a delusion. So is it not true that those who believe only in the physical forces are actually deluded?

Let us set aside for a moment my belief that I possess spiritual powers. Imagine what would a clear demonstration of the existence of spiritual forces do? It would create the awareness that there is something higher than what we actually perceive by the senses and that I think would be a good thing to happen. So seeking whether spiritual forces exist or not need not be and in my case not for ego satisfaction.

Sri Sravana

Dr Renu and I may be aligned in terms of what the recommendations might be but I differ that there is no such thing as a spiritual force - it is not possible to even define it. If the spiritual force is about bending a spoon or starting a fire some natural laws have to support that activity.

What is so phenomenal is that nature if one were to personify it does not play games with its laws. The gravitational constant measured happens to be the same in astronomical distances (in light years) and when measured at extremely small distances. The real miracle is to be able to see the miracle in day to day events we take for granted. But I do not want to reason with your beliefs. All I can tell you is that no serious teacher will tell you anything about spiritual power. Sri Sankara in all his teachings never did. There are others who may attribute some powers to him in their stories but what he taught did not have any such ideas.

There two levels of delusion. One is normal delusion - this gets addressed by our teaching for sincere students in the most logical manner.
Then there are abnormal delusion - this cannot be fixed by any teaching.

Believing in super natural things and thinking that one can do magic is abnormally delusional - that was the point.

I know you are not going to be convinced but I wanted to provide clarity to my statement

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TKS, Renu

I think arguments are of no avail when pitted against beliefs. So the only way to convince is to actually demosntrate.

Let me do this. For the next week will pray for lower temp and the week after that not pray and the next week after that for lower temp. So if my theory is right the middle week should record higher temp than the other 2 weeks. Would you agree that this cannot be by chance?

Or check the forecast and choose your weeks if you want to.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri TKS, Renu

I think arguments are of no avail when pitted against beliefs. So the only way to convince is to actually demosntrate.

Let me do this. For the next week will pray for lower temp and the week after that not pray and the next week after that for lower temp. So if my theory is right the middle week should record higher temp than the other 2 weeks. Would you agree that this cannot be by chance?

Or check the forecast and choose your weeks if you want to.

Dear Sravna,

The one thing I admire about you is your perseverance but sadly its misdirected.

Please do not wast precious time in pursuits that are not within anyone's capacity.