Meritocracy and Quotas

[Nara]

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It cuts both ways, if you give respect you can expect respect. If you come to my house and insult me you can not expect any respect..

This is not your house, you are no more than just another member. You can speak for yourself, or to the majority to whatever extent as you may imagine, all that matter very little. We all are equal in our rights and obligations. You have no more right to muzzle anybody than your own right not to be muzzled.

If palindrome insulted you then speak up, I will be on your side. Don't say criticizing Brahminism is the same as insulting you, it is not. If that were so, then I am more guilty of insulting you than P. Take it easy man, let logic and rationality guide you, not emotion.

 

[Nara]

....That the accusation of "ganging" comes from the guilty is not ironical. Just a sort of pre-emptive strike to muddle the waters. That is all!

PS: This should have been a general post, but this is deliberately addressed to Prasad so that members can undertstand what it feels like third parties discussing among themselves about the behavior of other members.

KB, my first post was addressed to all of you guys, prasad1 replied and I responded to it.

You want to paint Vaagmi as the victim, that is fine, you have every right to do so. But the facts are there for everyone to see. Take a look at the sequence of posts made. It was Vaagmi who took it down to the level of "drunken dwarf", very enlightened indeed!!!

Okay KB, I am ready to make a pact, let us not make any comment about the individual anymore, no more personal innuendos, no more questioning of motives, let us strictly adhere to the issues. Are you willing to take this pledge? How many takers are there?

thank you ....

 

[prasad1]

KB, my first post was addressed to all of you guys, prasad1 replied and I responded to it.

You want to paint Vaagmi as the victim, that is fine, you have every right to do so. But the facts are there for everyone to see. Take a look at the sequence of posts made. It was Vaagmi who took it down to the level of "drunken dwarf", very enlightened indeed!!!

Okay KB, I am ready to make a pact, let us not make any comment about the individual anymore, no more personal innuendos, no more questioning of motives, let us strictly adhere to the issues. Are you willing to take this pledge? How many takers are there?

thank you ....

Let us add to the pacts no more blaming brahmins. No more caste fights. No more bashing Brahmins. No more lecturing, or sermoning. I agree to your pact only if you agree to my conditions.

 

[prasad1]

This is not your house, you are no more than just another member. You can speak for yourself, or to the majority to whatever extent as you may imagine, all that matter very little. We all are equal in our rights and obligations. You have no more right to muzzle anybody than your own right not to be muzzled.

If palindrome insulted you then speak up, I will be on your side. Don't say criticizing Brahminism is the same as insulting you, it is not. If that were so, then I am more guilty of insulting you than P. Take it easy man, let logic and rationality guide you, not emotion.

I know your skills at manipulating, I am not going to fall for it. I was giving example of proper behavior in general and you are talking it out of context.
I did not claim any special privilege, and I know I will not win any popularity contest on this site. I say the facts as I see it, I am sorry it is not palatable to you.

 

[auh]

You guys are pathetic, ganging up on one single individual because you don't like what she says, shameful. Not a single one of you have successfully countered her in a rational and intellectual way. Stop these insults, stop ganging up. Argue if you can with proper etiquette and evidence, or else at least stay silent. Stop behaving like ruffians.

Perhaps you are able to see, in the darkness, the intellectual part, but the manner of debate is contorted and straight questions are not answered as matter-of-fact, and , rather than rationality, veiled insinuations, pre-meditated motives, self-created theories and conclusions seem to sway the judgement, as seen from what little debate I had.

Instead of equating the "You guys" to ruffians, perhaps it would have been much better if you had called out for your friend to maintain some civility in the exchanges a lot earlier than now. This is, to say the least, a partial and prejudiced outlook.

Including you, another member has supported a similar thought; if this is not ganging up, then what is?

 

[auh]

It was Vaagmi who took it down to the level of "drunken dwarf", very enlightened indeed!!!

Sorry to intrude, but the member you are supporting sports a tone of contempt against the debating member and that is very much evident in the posts. Strange that you are unable to see what many can.

Thanks,

 

[auh]

the welcome of some of us who share my way of thinking has been questioned in the past.

I mean no offence, but perhaps I can start to understand why somebody is unwelcome here, and by this, I do not mean you.

Regards,

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

LOL! Now you have become Thangabali??

Dear Renukaji,

What is Thangabali? Malay for invincible or incorrigible? LOL.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukaji,

What is Thangabali? Malay for invincible? LOL.

Aiyoo!

You dont know who Thangabali is??

What were you doing on August 8th 2013?

BTW it is Tamil..hey you really have Amnesia..you even forgot your Mother Tongue! Ha Ha Ha

 

[Vaagmi]

KB, my first post was addressed to all of you guys, prasad1 replied and I responded to it.

You want to paint Vaagmi as the victim, that is fine, you have every right to do so. But the facts are there for everyone to see. Take a look at the sequence of posts made. It was Vaagmi who took it down to the level of "drunken dwarf", very enlightened indeed!!!
Okay KB, I am ready to make a pact, let us not make any comment about the individual anymore, no more personal innuendos, no more questioning of motives, let us strictly adhere to the issues. Are you willing to take this pledge? How many takers are there?

As the post was addressed to "all you guys" I am responding. You may tell someone "Sir whatever you say is all terminological inexactitudes" and secretly smile and pat yourself for your talent. In that situation I would have just said "dear friend whatever you are saying is all lies and so you are a lier" and would have received a good number of brickbats. Now to make it more plain let me say this: You are devious and scheming while I am straight and to the point. Again please read the posts in the chronological order keeping aside your affection for your friend. You will understand how she had been needling unnecessarily. The drunk dwarf was carefully weighed and worded response to some one who was not able to understand what she was doing. OK let us leave all that aside.

I subscribe to your initiative. Let us make comments only about views expressed here. An individual should detach himself/herself from the views like water stands on lotus leaf!! No personal innuendos or caste based innuendos. No disrespect to hindus on their faith or believers on the God idea or scriptures which are holy to brahmins. Just like the unmentionable person was banned let us ban all atheistic outbursts against God and brahmin bashing outbursts from any quarters. Let us make this forum a அமைதிப்பூங்கா like our CM claims about TN. Will you take this pledge and join?

Thanks

 

[Vaagmi]

Aiyoo!

You dont know who Thangabali is??

What were you doing on August 8th 2013?

BTW it is Tamil..hey you really have Amnesia..you even forgot your Mother Tongue! Ha Ha Ha

This is getting curiouser and curiouser. I really do not get it. Please please what is Thangabali. The clue August does not help. I am poor in my mother tongue too, may be because of "real amnesia". Being a TB my vocabulary is restricted to mainly a few words like, thayir sadham, puliyodharai, vadu mangai etc., What you are offering sounds like something mughalai. I am sorry. Please help me. Thanks

 

[renuka]

This is getting curiouser and curiouser. I really do not get it. Please please what is Thangabali. The clue August does not help. I am poor in my mother tongue too, may be because of "real amnesia". Being a TB my vocabulary is restricted to mainly a few words like, thayir sadham, puliyodharai, vadu mangai etc., What you are offering sounds like something mughalai. I am sorry. Please help me. Thanks

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

Just concentrate and then meditate.....usually Sattva Guna enables one to tap into the knowledge from the cosmos..that is how the ancient sages got their revelations before Google Search Engine came into being.

What is this TB vocabulary is centered around food?

I though it is supposed to be centered around God??

What is this yaar??

BTW here is the 6 feet 4 Thangabali!

[video=youtube_share;xF5lennBvAo]http://youtu.be/xF5lennBvAo[/video]

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr. Praveen, I have requested you to read my First posting on this Topic #20 dt 19/8/ 2013 & having not got response, I wrote #178, with a view to know , not only your views , but also positive initiative towards my proposed views, for the betterment of tamil Brahmins You will agree that the VETERENS have taken the entire field & show their superiority in every comment , whether they know the subject in depth or not ?
Mrs Renuka tops the list. Many new members have been arguing but she is not relenting. You would know her better. Ofcouse , there are few who seem to fall in line , it appears to be a SYNDICATE within our Forum ?
I fervently wish that you start streamlining the Topis & not allow it tO stray. Next, please formulate major Policy decisions for the members to follow. I consider YOU as a leader & please show us the way.

A.Srinivasan (rishikesan) Ph 044/ 24806871

 

[renuka]

Dear Mr. Praveen, I have requested you to read my First posting on this Topic #20 dt 19/8/ 2013 & having not got response, I wrote #178, with a view to know , not only your views , but also positive initiative towards my proposed views, for the betterment of tamil Brahmins You will agree that the VETERENS have taken the entire field & show their superiority in every comment , whether they know the subject in depth or not ?
Mrs Renuka tops the list. Many new members have been arguing but she is not relenting. You would know her better. Ofcouse , there are few who seem to fall in line , it appears to be a SYNDICATE within our Forum ?
I fervently wish that you start streamlining the Topis & not allow it tO stray. Next, please formulate major Policy decisions for the members to follow. I consider YOU as a leader & please show us the way.

A.Srinivasan (rishikesan) Ph 044/ 24806871

Dear Srinivasan,

I have the faintest idea why my name is being dragged in here.

I hardly see you in Forum BTW.

 

[sangom]

You guys are pathetic, ganging up on one single individual because you don't like what she says, shameful. Not a single one of you have successfully countered her in a rational and intellectual way. Stop these insults, stop ganging up. Argue if you can with proper etiquette and evidence, or else at least stay silent. Stop behaving like ruffians.

Dear Shri Nara,

After four years or so in this Forum, is it not sufficiently clear to you as to what "real Brahmin qualities" are? Our Brahministic friends will never be able to change, just as a donkey will never be able to stop braying.

Let us leave it at that and take whatever we can learn from Palindrome's posts here. After all even AdiShankara had something to learn from a lowly Chandala, was it not?

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

Just concentrate and then meditate.....usually Sattva Guna enables one to tap into the knowledge from the cosmos..that is how the ancient sages got their revelations before Google Search Engine came into being.
What is this TB vocabulary is centered around food?
I though it is supposed to be centered around God??
What is this yaar??
BTW here is the 6 feet 4 Thangabali!

Now I got it. It is the "I" that is creating all the trouble. It is Thangabalu and not Thangabali. So you see,the "I" is always troublesome. I concentrated and meditated taking your advice ( sa tapo thapyadha kind of advice and obeying). Being a TB, first I got the image of a tall and pretty lass and I told God "ramyA ramA mrithu thanu latA nandanE nApiranthum bhAvE bhAvE hridhaya bhavanE bhAvayEyam bhavantham". The lass disappeared. Then the thangam in your word came and troubled me as I saw a vasu nichayam beckoning, I told God, "nAsthA dharmE navasu nichayE naiva kamOpabhOgE yad yad bhavyam bhavathu bhagavan pUrva karmAnurUpam Ethath prArthyam mama bahumatham janmajanmAnthare bi twat padAmbOruha yuga gathA nischala bhaktir asthu". The thangam disappeared. I was left with the bali. Then my daughter came and helped me with Thangabalu. If you still ask what is this yaar, please look up Kulasekhara Alwar's Mukunthamala. Thanks.

 

[sangom]

Dear Prasad,

< snip >

Then Sangom comes in, offers as much the same advice to Palindrome directly addressing her to keep away from such exchanges as if people arguing against her are all guilty of the same crime.

Thus the ganging up is complete.

That the accusation of "ganging" comes from the guilty is not ironical. Just a sort of pre-emptive strike to muddle the waters. That is all!

PS: This should have been a general post, but this is deliberately addressed to Prasad so that members can undertstand what it feels like third parties discussing among themselves about the behavior of other members.

Shri Kalabhairavan,

I am writing w.r.t. the highlighted portion only.

Yes, what you say is partly correct except that your conclusion (viz., as if people arguing against her are all guilty of the same crime.). I did not writeanything to warrant such conclusion. I felt that if Palindrome continues discussing, it may even go worse than it already had become. Hence mine was a cautioning act only.The word "ganging up" does not signify such cautioning and advising one party to desist (from fight, war, assault, debate or argument). 'gang up' in simple terms means 'act as one group', very much like a group of thugs or goons under one leader; if there is one fellow saying 'let us not go forward' it is not ganging up any longer. And a good number of tabras who did visit this site for some time have told me very frankly that they find some elements ganging up under the pretext of 'defending the Brahmin group', making the discussions ugly and unpalatable and that they therefore do not want to register here or contribute, even though a few of them write well for the KBA publications like Vipradhvani, Divyathejas, etc., in Kerala. Hence, the world outside seems to know who all are 'ganging up' and doing a disservice (even if marginal) by preventing more tabras from joining as members of this forum. (Note: I learned this when I got a notice about bringing in more members to TBF etc., and accordingly requested many of my tabra relatives and friends to visit this site and let me know if I can give their names, e-mail ids, etc.)

This also replies Shri Prasad's accusation that I did not help (dissuade) my friend Palindrome.

 

[sangom]

Now that you have started taking names and making it personal, I am going to jump in.
It is not that a NB is saying or a women is saying, it is appropriateness of who is saying.
I have said it before Palindromeji comes across as condescending and condemning Brahmins from a superiority complex. Nobody like likes to be lectured down. More over Motives matter. If the sole perspose of an individual is to heap insult on a community at every opportunity, that too when that person does not belong to that group it is rather sad. There will be defensive action by the group. It is like a KKK member goes in white hooded Garb to a NAACP private retreat and starts insulting the Afro-American. Do you want me to explain what will happen? Or a Brahmin with (namam or Vibhuti) goes to DK (or what ever that group) meeting and starts criticizing the Dravidian Culture.

Just like you said, what happens to Women improperly dressed in the middle of night in back road, similar fate awaits "wrong place wrong comments".
I have nothing against women making comments or any one commenting about Hinduism.

You have the habit of relaxing your own rules for your "personal" friends. Bias for friends is human, but it is your duty to direct the misdirected friend. You have failed your friend.

Shri Prasad,

Kindly see my post:

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/13064-meritocracy-quotas-27.html#post203294

 

[sangom]

Let us add to the pacts no more blaming brahmins. No more caste fights. No more bashing Brahmins. No more lecturing, or sermoning. I agree to tour pact only if you agree to my conditions.

Add "no more criticising India or digging up unsavoury items to criticize the country" also. At least we all have a stake in this country.

 

[Vaagmi]

Shri Kalabhairavan,

I am writing w.r.t. the highlighted portion only.

Yes, what you say is partly correct except that your conclusion (viz., as if people arguing against her are all guilty of the same crime.). I did not writeanything to warrant such conclusion. I felt that if Palindrome continues discussing, it may even go worse than it already had become. Hence mine was a cautioning act only.The word "ganging up" does not signify such cautioning and advising one party to desist (from fight, war, assault, debate or argument). 'gang up' in simple terms means 'act as one group', very much like a group of thugs or goons under one leader; if there is one fellow saying 'let us not go forward' it is not ganging up any longer. And a good number of tabras who did visit this site for some time have told me very frankly that they find some elements ganging up under the pretext of 'defending the Brahmin group', making the discussions ugly and unpalatable and that they therefore do not want to register here or contribute, even though a few of them write well for the KBA publications like Vipradhvani, Divyathejas, etc., in Kerala. Hence, the world outside seems to know who all are 'ganging up' and doing a disservice (even if marginal) by preventing more tabras from joining as members of this forum. (Note: I learned this when I got a notice about bringing in more members to TBF etc., and accordingly requested many of my tabra relatives and friends to visit this site and let me know if I can give their names, e-mail ids, etc.)

This also replies Shri Prasad's accusation that I did not help (dissuade) my friend Palindrome.

OMG!! what all methods are used to coerce the forum owner. I have many friends who complain to me and ask me why should I post anything at all in a forum where people forming gangs bash brahmins relentlessly and eulogise sworn brahmin haters,where our scriptures are all ridiculed repeatedly and where a concerted, orchestrated effort is frequently(in gangland style) made to hound ordinary members out.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Praveen, I have requested you to read my First posting on this Topic #20 dt 19/8/ 2013 & having not got response, I wrote #178, with a view to know , not only your views , but also positive initiative towards my proposed views, for the betterment of tamil Brahmins You will agree that the VETERENS have taken the entire field & show their superiority in every comment , whether they know the subject in depth or not ?
Mrs Renuka tops the list. Many new members have been arguing but she is not relenting. You would know her better. Ofcouse , there are few who seem to fall in line , it appears to be a SYNDICATE within our Forum ?
I fervently wish that you start streamlining the Topis & not allow it tO stray. Next, please formulate major Policy decisions for the members to follow. I consider YOU as a leader & please show us the way.

A.Srinivasan (rishikesan) Ph 044/ 24806871

Rishikesan,

In the midst of all the cacophony here, your voice may be a ray of hope. Please give the full details of what is in your mind in a new thread and it can be discussed by brahmins here in this forum.

 

[palindrome]

Let us add to the pacts no more blaming brahmins. No more caste fights. No more bashing Brahmins. No more lecturing, or sermoning. I agree to tour pact only if you agree to my conditions.

This follows my particular post: Those who do not like "brahmanism" to be associated with "casteism" should first ask these military/trader origin folks to give up their claims of brahminhood. Ask them to revert back to shudra or scheduled tribe positions.

Stating problems with brahmanism does not mean one is anti-brahmin. It is better if one uses wisdom to know the difference. Brahmanism is a poisonous ideology. Eveyone will be better off without it. By stating the above, I do not become anti-brahmin. Why cannot everyone stop the casteist attitude? Why do we get people now and then praising, lecturing, sermonizing on dharmashastras and brahmanism? There are 2 types of people here. One who support such stuff not knowing what it is. Another, which supports everything knowing well what it is. There are many readers who belong to the former category. Unfortunately, the forum is loaded with posters of the latter category. For those who wish to bury in their head in the sand it cannot be helped. But there are people who do not care for caste. I have no intentions of pleasing casteist people who almost always happen to be elderly people. My focus is the younger readership.

 

[vgane]

Praveen,

I think there has been enough of discussions on this thread...The discussions have gone berserk and completely wayward...I think you may like to close this thread

 

[Vaagmi]

This follows my particular post: Those who do not like "brahmanism" to be associated with "casteism" should first ask these military/trader origin folks to give up their claims of brahminhood. Ask them to revert back to shudra or scheduled tribe positions.

Stating problems with brahmanism does not mean one is anti-brahmin. It is better if one uses wisdom to know the difference. Brahmanism is a poisonous ideology. Eveyone will be better off without it. By stating the above, I do not become anti-brahmin. Why cannot everyone stop the casteist attitude? Why do we get people now and then praising, lecturing, sermonizing on dharmashastras and brahmanism? There are 2 types of people here. One who support such stuff not knowing what it is. Another, which supports everything knowing well what it is. There are many readers who belong to the former category. Unfortunately, the forum is loaded with posters of the latter category. For those who wish to bury in their head in the sand it cannot be helped. But there are people who do not care for caste. I have no intentions of pleasing casteist people who almost always happen to be elderly people. My focus is the younger readership.

There is only casteism. There is no brahminism. Why should it be called brahminism? Calling casteism by the name brahminism is equivalent to calling communism with the name slavism and no one does that. Brahminism is an invention by anti-brahmin forces. This includes the british, the dravidianist ideologues/hatred mongers and of course our own people suffering from an overdose of intellectual fervour. Casteism which is exploitative is bad no doubt. It is poisonous. So anyone who speaks about brahminism in place of casteism have a secret agenda. Their aim is not attacking the exploitation in the society. But it is to attack a group of the society out of envy at its trail blazing progress(despite heavy odds) and contribution to nations economy. As long as the brahmins speak about the dharmasastras, scriptures etc within their community it should not concern others. Only if they rub it on others, the concerned people have a right to object(only the concerned people) or accept it. Every member here in this forum is having a very high level of awareness and hence they support or oppose a member's idea posted here with the benefit of this fundamental awareness. If you delude yourself with any other idea about the situation they are not responsible for that. There is no young-old division here. We are brahmins and we know the history of casteism in India and we have been at the receiving end for long along with the panchamans. We do not want lectures and cock and bull stories to forget our pains and suffer from guilt. We have enough strength to fight our battles and keep our group in the forefront of progress as we have always been. The lecture given by you here will suit the people who recently burnt Govt. buses in marakkanam village. Please go and address them. They will benefit. Thanks.

 

[auh]

Why can't people, who are allergic to brahmins or brahminism, try to voice their concerns elsewhere also? Would any member who has voiced out their anathemic lore in these discussion pages (in this site), dare to file a case in the courts, with proper proofs, and fight it out there (maybe they can file a petition to the PM of India). Simply haranguing a group of people who have clustered (anonymously) in a website and clutching at their throats with anti brahmin rhetorics, under the veneer of scholastic attitude, is distasteful, to say the least.