Qualified brahmin!

[vgane]

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Dear Vgane ji,

I find you strange!LOL

Really.

You see its nice to note that Hinduism is being practiced by Hindus of any community in a traditional and orthodox way but what I can't understand is the need for comparison with your own community.

I am sure there are TBs who still adhere to their traditions too so why compare and contrast with other communities and imagine that a Non TB is more religious than a TB or vice-versa or a Martian is more religious than an Earthling?

For me its simple..everyone follows most traditions for some benefit or desire for self,family and even society. So sometimes what we see is desires in action.

When I see someone outwardly very " religious"....I do not start to feel that he/she follows culture more than me..I just feel its their choice but in that process I do not feel I need to be critical of myself that someone else follows tradition better than me.

I think we all need to appreciate ourselves and our own effort no matter if we are TB or not TB.

Dear Renukaji,

The objective of me sharing was not to belittle TB's but bemoan the fact that some of our own community members are questioning these vedic rituals when other learned non brahmin Hindus are embracing our vedic rituals with gusto

Brahmin priests officiating in non Brahmin household functions is as old as the Sangam literature!

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

A note in RED says, 'Please do not inline Project Gutenberg images'!! :nono:

Caged Carrot ?? Need not be -


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[Raji Ram]

Tricky parrot, indeed! Was not visible till 6 a.m and now it is visible!

Got it!! J J Ji should log in, if other members wish to see the parrot and carrot !

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Tricky parrot, indeed! Was not visible till 6 a.m and now it is visible!

Got it!! J J Ji should log in, if other members wish to see the parrot and carrot !

Tasty Carrot Halwa - Parrot in Food Mood - Not Parrot Act/Copy Cat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHf07htpbd0

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukaji,

The objective of me sharing was not to belittle TB's but bemoan the fact that some of our own community members are questioning these vedic rituals when other learned non brahmin Hindus are embracing our vedic rituals with gusto

Brahmin priests officiating in non Brahmin household functions is as old as the Sangam literature!

Dear Vgane ji,

I feel questioning the need for any ritual exists in any community.

It is usually seen when people start to see the practicality of life and realize that tradition/culture need not be actually part of spirituality per se.

Many people these days would not want to follow tradition blindly.

I will give you a simple example.

I know an Iyengar priest who is almost like a family priest to my father's relatives and most of them listen to whatever he says..but somehow he and I always end up arguing!LOL

Ok he told my cousin that one should never recite any Shiva mantra in front of Perumal and my cousin become scared and followed what he said cos my cousin is now a full time Perumal Bhakta.

The priest also told me the same thing and he went more specific with me and told me that Rudram should never ever be recited in front of Perumal.

So I asked him "tell me where Perumal does not exists?"

He did not say anything for a while then he started saying that I never listen to him.

He then said 'Not to recite it in front of a statue of Perumal"

I then asked "So is Perumal only in a statue?"

Then he got mad with me and he started fighting with me!LOL

So you see my cousins dare not ask him anything cos they feel if they do not follow what he says some harm will befall them.

But I feel my questioning him does not mean I do not believe in religion or vedic rites..its just that sometimes I do not see the logic behind certain believes.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vgane ji,

I feel questioning the need for any ritual exists in any community.
It is usually seen when people start to see the practicality of life and realize that tradition/culture need not be actually part of spirituality per se.
Many people these days would not want to follow tradition blindly.

Questioning is alright as it is natural. But one should put the questions to the right person.

I will give you a simple example.
I know an Iyengar priest who is almost like a family priest to my father's relatives and most of them listen to whatever he says..but somehow he and I always end up arguing!LOL
Ok he told my cousin that one should never recite any Shiva mantra in front of Perumal and my cousin become scared and followed what he said cos my cousin is now a full time Perumal Bhakta.
The priest also told me the same thing and he went more specific with me and told me that Rudram should never ever be recited in front of Perumal.
So I asked him "tell me where Perumal does not exists?"
He did not say anything for a while then he started saying that I never listen to him.
He then said 'Not to recite it in front of a statue of Perumal"
I then asked "So is Perumal only in a statue?"
Then he got mad with me and he started fighting with me!LOL

He was just a priest. He studied only the mantras and not their deep meanings. He perhaps did not have the philosophical insight to tell you authoritatively his view points. So the well worn out example of "where God is not/" bowled him out. And did you get your ego tickled? Only you know and you can tell honestly touching your heart. If I were the priest I would not have told you not to chant Rudram. I would have asked to chant Chamakam too if you can. Because they are part of vedas. The poor priest was simple. He had his unswerving devotion to his Perumal and he did not think it proper to sing a song praising someone else before his Perumal. It is like the Rajani fan objecting to playing music from kamal film and fighting for that in a brawl. The level is that. The priest was right in his own knowledge within the limiting coordinates of his own space.

But I feel my questioning him does not mean I do not believe in religion or vedic rites..its just that sometimes I do not see the logic behind certain believes.

Your position is well understood because most of us are in that. But at least I do not look for knowledge in places where I know they do not exist. This is not being judgmental or being egotist. Plain statement of fact.

 

[renuka]

[]
He was just a priest. He studied only the mantras and not their deep meanings. He perhaps did not have the philosophical insight to tell you authoritatively his view points. So the well worn out example of "where God is not/" bowled him out. And did you get your ego tickled? Only you know and you can tell honestly touching your heart. If I were the priest I would not have told you not to chant Rudram. I would have asked to chant Chamakam too if you can. Because they are part of vedas. The poor priest was simple. He had his unswerving devotion to his Perumal and he did not think it proper to sing a song praising someone else before his Perumal. It is like the Rajani fan objecting to playing music from kamal film and fighting for that in a brawl. The level is that. The priest was right in his own knowledge within the limiting coordinates of his own space.


Your position is well understood because most of us are in that. But at least I do not look for knowledge in places where I know they do not exist. This is not being judgmental or being egotist. Plain statement of fact.




.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

The priest is a well trained Vadakalai....having studied in a Vedapathashala and reads Grantham script too.
He is well informed and knowledgeable and I have never underestimated him.

Nope..I did not get my ego tickled..when I question anyone or anything its never to show that I am right but just to exchange opinions to get a better insight.

This is the very same priest who once when I attended a Homa organized by my dad's relatives..he came up and asked me why I have not asked him about the benefits(phala) of the Homa...he was wondering if I was not happy with the Homa!LOL

He told me all my other relatives wanted to know what the benefits were except me and my family never asked him a question.

So I told him "I attended the Homa as a duty towards God and not to think of the fruits of it"

To which he replied "Aiyoo! If everyone thinks like you I will run out of business!"

He then always like to argue with me when he gets the chance and he seems to enjoy the dialogue.

So there is no ego play here..its actually fun!LOL

BTW knowledge exists in every direction.

Aa Nau Bhadra Kritvo Yantu Vishwatah

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

Todays Poem to keep agony away!

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

Bosting Brahmins
Boston brahmins
Humble brahmins
Hussaini brahmins

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

 

[renuka]

Todays Poem to keep agony away!

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

Bosting Brahmins
Boston brahmins
Humble brahmins
Hussaini brahmins

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

50 shades of Brahmins?

 

[yesmohan]

The resolution of the NRI to conduct the Upanayanams for his two sons and the solution given by the Sasthrigal are both laudable. The act of making comments and criticisms without looking back how many of our kith and kins do not wear the sacred thread at all or wear occasionally after resting them on the nail in the wall, is condemnable.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Ji,

Then will the Brahmanas who are doing all these audible rites for the Non Dwija Gounder incur any "sin"?
Just a thought.

Such brahmins were considered "fallen" (because it was considered a sinful activity) and were not included among the priests who officiate in any vedic rite in a Brahmin household. Incidentally, a similar disqualification was there for brahmins who practised the medical profession also, in the olden days (even in my childhood). Even today, there are a few people who sport the poonal and officiate as priests for all the castes who perform pitru tarpanam on Aadi Amavaasya day (called "karkataka Vaavu" in Malayalam) in the more famous centres like Thiruvallam sea shore in Trivandrum, Aluva riverbank in Alwaye, another centre in Vayanad, etc., and these people are never associated with the priests who officiate in Brahmin houses, nor considered as a pucca brahmin. These are all "fallen brahmins" and cannot even be called for Sraaddham in a brahmin's house for eating as "Sraaddha Brahmanan".

 

[sangom]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

< Clipped >

BTW knowledge exists in every direction.

Aa Nau Bhadra Kritvo Yantu Vishwatah

Smt. Renukaji,

The vedic Rik ā no bhadrāḥ kratavo yantu viśvato... does not actually mean "knowledge exists in every direction." This portion of the rik may simply be translated as "Let auspicious Mahaayaagas come (in search of) to us; this does not even remotely refer to knowledge except perhaps the information regarding some kratu (vedic sacrifice) coming to the maker of the sukta and his associates.

Just for information please.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I know an Iyengar priest who is almost like a family priest to my father's relatives and most of them listen to whatever he says..but somehow he and I always end up arguing!LOL

Ok he told my cousin that one should never recite any Shiva mantra in front of Perumal and my cousin become scared and followed what he said cos my cousin is now a full time Perumal Bhakta.

The priest also told me the same thing and he went more specific with me and told me that Rudram should never ever be recited in front of Perumal.

So I asked him "tell me where Perumal does not exists?"

He did not say anything for a while then he started saying that I never listen to him.

He then said 'Not to recite it in front of a statue of Perumal"

I then asked "So is Perumal only in a statue?"

Then he got mad with me and he started fighting with me!LOL

So you see my cousins dare not ask him anything cos they feel if they do not follow what he says some harm will befall them.

But I feel my questioning him does not mean I do not believe in religion or vedic rites..its just that sometimes I do not see the logic behind certain believes.

You have not disclosed whether you are a Shaivite or Vaishnavite. I presume you are a Vaishnavite since a Vaishnavie Priest happened to be your relatives family priest.

Regarding the Priest, it is seems he is a poor communicator.

If Rudram relates to Lord Shiva, no one will recite either in Perumal Temple or in front of Perumal. He doesn't have the guts to say Vaishnavites should not recite Rudram. Regarding 'where Perumal does not exist' is concerned, he should have shot a reply that Perumal does not exist in Shaivite Temples, houses and pure Smartha houses (as prime deity), if he is a true scholar.

 

[renuka]

You have not disclosed whether you are a Shaivite or Vaishnavite. I presume you are a Vaishnavite since a Vaishnavie Priest happened to be your relatives family priest.

Regarding the Priest, it is seems he is a poor communicator.

If Rudram relates to Lord Shiva, no one will recite either in Perumal Temple or in front of Perumal. He doesn't have the guts to say Vaishnavites should not recite Rudram. Regarding 'where Perumal does not exist' is concerned, he should have shot a reply that Perumal does not exist in Shaivite Temples, houses and pure Smartha houses (as prime deity), if he is a true scholar.

Dear Chandru ji,

I am not a Shaivite or a Vaishnavite..we grew up with every image of God in the prayer room.
I have an open concept when it comes to God..Vishnu or Shiva in my opinion are Saguna Brahman.So for me they are one and the same..but I find Lord Shiva more handsome!LOL

Out here in Msia no one is strictly a Shaivite or a Vaishnavite..most people go to all types of temples.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renukaji,

The vedic Rik ā no bhadrāḥ kratavo yantu viśvato... does not actually mean "knowledge exists in every direction." This portion of the rik may simply be translated as "Let auspicious Mahaayaagas come (in search of) to us; this does not even remotely refer to knowledge except perhaps the information regarding some kratu (vedic sacrifice) coming to the maker of the sukta and his associates.

Just for information please.

Thank you.

 

[Raji Ram]

Such brahmins were considered "fallen" (because it was considered a sinful activity) and were not included among the priests who officiate in any vedic rite in a Brahmin household. Incidentally, a similar disqualification was there for brahmins who practised the medical profession also, in the olden days (even in my childhood). Even today, there are a few people who sport the poonal and officiate as priests for all the castes who perform pitru tarpanam on Aadi Amavaasya day (called "karkataka Vaavu" in Malayalam) in the more famous centres like Thiruvallam sea shore in Trivandrum, Aluva riverbank in Alwaye, another centre in Vayanad, etc., and these people are never associated with the priests who officiate in Brahmin houses, nor considered as a pucca brahmin. These are all "fallen brahmins" and cannot even be called for Sraaddham in a brahmin's house for eating as "Sraaddha Brahmanan".

OMG! Are Fallen brahmins = Disqualified brahmins?

In our village a Telugu brahmin mAmA used to perform srAddhams in non brahmin houses.

May be he is a D Q brahmin! :sad:

 

[JR]

OMG! Are Fallen brahmins = Disqualified brahmins?

In our village a Telugu brahmin mAmA used to perform srAddhams in non brahmin houses.

May be he is a D Q brahmin! :sad:

Dear Raji Madam,

It is considered immense merit to do anthima kriya to unknown dead bodies. One of my forefathers (of very long time ago) supposedly did kriya to the body of a certain "Nallan" a dalit which came floating by the river. Hence my lineage hails with the full name of 'Thottam Dhavalasangam Nallan Chakravarthy".. My mother used to say this. So although casteism was widespread in days of yore, somehow they also seem to have recognized the goodness with rendering service to the downtrodden/the dhalits.

 

[JR]

Todays Poem to keep agony away!

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

Bosting Brahmins
Boston brahmins
Humble brahmins
Hussaini brahmins

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

The subtle sarcastic note in this poem could have been subtle philosophical note -- by substituting 'Brahmins' with 'Humans'.

 

[sangom]

OMG! Are Fallen brahmins = Disqualified brahmins?

In our village a Telugu brahmin mAmA used to perform srAddhams in non brahmin houses.

May be he is a D Q brahmin! :sad:

May be the correct/appropriate word is neither 'fallen' nor 'disqualified', but such brahmanas were considered as "bhrashtas" and though no new caste group label was assigned to them, such brahmanas were not considered as "brahmanas" at all and their descendants were also deemed as in the same category.

This was one reason for brahmins not taking up the study and practice of medicine (Ayurveda was the main available system in those days) and the very few who had, somehow, taken up that avocation were ostracized as much as possible by the brahmin society at large.

 

[tbs]

OMG! Are Fallen brahmins = Disqualified brahmins?

In our village a Telugu brahmin mAmA used to perform srAddhams in non brahmin houses.

May be he is a D Q brahmin! :sad:

hi

even in USA...all brahmin priests are doing sradham in nonbrahmin houses tooo....SO ALL ARE D Q BRAHMIN?.....

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

The subtle sarcastic note in this poem could have been subtle philosophical note -- by substituting 'Brahmins' with 'Humans'.

Plesantly embarrssed! Uuperwaala of the digital type - web camera hanging above fixed in the celing- registering shades of emotion and behaviours of TBs where the lens is focused - and not the Divine of the celestial world above our head to preach universal philosophy!! . At the best I am a 'சாட்சி பூதம்’.

 

[Raji Ram]

May be the correct/appropriate word is neither 'fallen' nor 'disqualified', but such brahmanas were considered as "bhrashtas" and though no new caste group label was assigned to them, such brahmanas were not considered as "brahmanas" at all and their descendants were also deemed as in the same category.

This was one reason for brahmins not taking up the study and practice of medicine (Ayurveda was the main available system in those days) and the very few who had, somehow, taken up that avocation were ostracized as much as possible by the brahmin society at large.

Really sad that brahmins were narrow minded!

BTW, there are many leading brahmin practitioners, mostly allopathic medicine, who serve our society. But soon the number

will reduce to a great extent! Thanks to the reservation policies and 'paid' seats!!

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

50 shades of Brahmins?

True - even a single colour - Grey has 50 shades Think of the possibilities with VIBGYOR!!

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

Grey brahmins !
Gay brahmins !!
Gray- matter brahmins !
Clay- matter brahmins!!

Brahmin brahmin
Shades of brahmin

I think suggested optimal dose is once a day for 50 days & may be toxic beyond that - Doctor Please advise

 

[Raji Ram]

We can expect more U S of A brahmins in poems, now that Boston brahmin has entered! A to Z!! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Such brahmins were considered "fallen" (because it was considered a sinful activity) and were not included among the priests who officiate in any vedic rite in a Brahmin household. Incidentally, a similar disqualification was there for brahmins who practised the medical profession also, in the olden days (even in my childhood). Even today, there are a few people who sport the poonal and officiate as priests for all the castes who perform pitru tarpanam on Aadi Amavaasya day (called "karkataka Vaavu" in Malayalam) in the more famous centres like Thiruvallam sea shore in Trivandrum, Aluva riverbank in Alwaye, another centre in Vayanad, etc., and these people are never associated with the priests who officiate in Brahmin houses, nor considered as a pucca brahmin. These are all "fallen brahmins" and cannot even be called for Sraaddham in a brahmin's house for eating as "Sraaddha Brahmanan".

dear Sangom ji,

Out here in Malaysia TB priests do not for final rites for a Non Brahmin. The TB priest only come for the Karumakiriyai prayers and the yearly Shraadha of the NB.

Its a Non Brahmin "pandaram" who comes to do the final rites and there is nothing Vedic about the rites they conduct.

Most of them would be reciting Om Namah Shivaya on top of their voices sometimes..at times some who know more recite Om Trayambakam Mantra and the rest of the ritual they read some Thevaram verses.

But the North Indian Brahmin priest come for funerals of the North Indian community of any caste.



The TB iyengar priest I know who once did some added prayers 2 weeks after the funeral for my deceased MIL..told me much later that actually a Non Brahmin deceased person does not even need funeral rites..he said its not as if any NB is going to go to Vaikunta or Kailasha.

But surprisingly it was him who recommended some extra prayers and a Homa and wanted Swarna Dhanam and even Go-Dhanam with a big time Dakshina.

If he knew that all these is not needed for a NB..then why did he recommend it in the first place?

Strange but true.