Religious conversion

[Nara]

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That is like saying apple and fish are interrelated because they are both eaten as food

The issue of anonymity and multiple IDs are interrelated. In a system like facebook where meaningful participation is possible only if you are open with your identity there will be no reason to have multiple IDs. In a forum like this one where anonymity is the norm multiple IDs can't be prevented. Only you and I know whether Nara and KB are two different people or the same person with two IDs, and this is so because of the anonymity.

. we are talking about the problem of multiple IDs arising out of the same IP!

I am feeling tired and not really inclined to explain in detail why I consider this as a problem.[....] I hope you would excuse me for this.

Perhaps, when the problem shows up, we can have a discussion!

Even if it is a problem the time and effort necessary to fret out the "offender" is pretty high. Even with rudimentary skills I can post from different continents if I wanted to, or compteley anonymize my IP through Tor project. So, any "offender" who wishes to throw flames using multiple IDs can do so without getting outed.

Yes, we can discuss it if (not when) a problem related to multiple IDs arise, as of now the suggestion offered is looking for a problem to solve that does not exist.

 

[sarang]

Not one church or mosque is under governmental control. This is secularism.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Even with rudimentary skills I can post from different continents if I wanted to, or compteley anonymize my IP through Tor project. So, any "offender" who wishes to throw flames using multiple IDs can do so without getting outed.

At the least, it requires some surreptitious effort from the offender if a system of tracking is in place. That was my point about first order deterrence.

Yes, we can discuss it if (not when) a problem related to multiple IDs arise, as of now the suggestion offered is looking for a problem to solve that does not exist.

I think the problem is there. That is why we see people speculating. But if there is no easy way to avoid, so be it.

 

[sangom]

I used to see the 'Change of Name' column in 'The Hindu' regularly. It is
shocking to note the incidence of converting to either Christianity or
Islam from Hinduism by both men and women is on the high side. While
it is negligible in the case of conversion from Christianity to other Religions,
it is almost 'nil' in the case of Islam.

Since India is a secular country and change of religion is one's own choice, the frequency of conversion from Hinduism is on the high side. This
needs to be looked thoroughly, whether conversion is due to affairs or
economic consideration.

While all religions preach compassion, tolerance, unity, brotherhood etc.,
conversion may pose danger to the existing culture, secular fabric of the
country.

Sometime back, an entire brahmin family (from the names I presumed),
got converted to Islam.

Religious Conversion from hinduism to other faiths which thrive on proselytization, is the price which hindus have to pay at present for all the inhuman treatment which was meted out to the Shudras (present day SCs, STs, OBCs, MBCs and so on). It is our own "Karma Theory" hitting us where it matters most (viz., the "balls"!), so to say. Do the other forward castes bother about such "conversions"? I don't think. Then why we, tabras, alone bother about this so much? Are we, the tabras, in a position to give equal status to all those who are converting due to maltreatment on the basis of castes, with us brahmins by dining along with such caste people or by inter-marrying? Obviously, a big NO.

Then why shed cocodile tears only because the hindutva vote bank will shrink whereas the Christian and Muslim vote banks will become more powerful and decisive in national/state affairs?

 

[prasad1]

Religious Conversion from hinduism to other faiths which thrive on proselytization, is the price which hindus have to pay at present for all the inhuman treatment which was meted out to the Shudras (present day SCs, STs, OBCs, MBCs and so on). It is our own "Karma Theory" hitting us where it matters most (viz., the "balls"!), so to say. Do the other forward castes bother about such "conversions"? I don't think. Then why we, tabras, alone bother about this so much? Are we, the tabras, in a position to give equal status to all those who are converting due to maltreatment on the basis of castes, with us brahmins by dining along with such caste people or by inter-marrying? Obviously, a big NO.

Then why shed cocodile tears only because the hindutva vote bank will shrink whereas the Christian and Muslim vote banks will become more powerful and decisive in national/state affairs?

What about born-brahmins and others castes converting? Where did you get this theory about Sudras alone converting? Please stop making every thread a Caste topic. You and may be few others alone drag every thread into caste politics. If you so hate brahmins, why don't you do something about it. If you ask we might come up with suggestions for you.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

As of this post you have 13 in this web site, not one of them is in the Introductions thread. You don't have to introduce yourself AFAIC, but if you did post an introduction may I request you to give the link.

Mr. Nara,

I hold you in good esteem. hence responding to you.

I am an Iyengar. I am Asirvadam's wife. This is all what I posted in Introductions thread. I was responded with a message that my post will not appear until the Moderators have approved. ever since i had not returned to the thread. I am not obliged to reveal any more of my identity. seeking further credentials of mine is none of anyone's business. You seem to be the only member in this thread who holds such noble principles.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

The ..... or get Rs 100 by going to the church every Sunday, the choice becomes clear.

If I appeal to the Forum owners to expunge/remove your post because it is a false charge, a bluff and a lie, with absolutely no evidence, posted only with a malicious intent, could you provide genuine reasons defending your post? Are you aware that during Sunday services in churches, contrary to your statement, offertory is taken?

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Would you please reveal your identity so that your authority is established? For all we know "Kuvalayavalli" could very well be the person who controls churches.

Oh, this is not an unwanted probe... just felt that before asking some identity, you should perhaps disclose something about yourself, esp., if you are true, sincere, honest...

Perhaps you are a christian pastor committing what biswa has charged! Perhaps hence, you got the jitters on reading my post!Perhaps to hide/flee you are demanding my identity! Let biswa reveal the truth. then you will know my identity outside of this forum.

i am not under any obligation to reveal my identity. Bear in mind that every post of mine passes through Moderators' tests.

 

[biswa]

Sorry, I missed several pages of this discussion. Who or what is "Kuvalayavalli"?

I hope I spelled that correctly. For the first time I am getting mentioned in so many posts. Feeling quite giddy. :-D

 

[biswa]

Welcome to the forum. Obviously you are a newbie. Most likely your high expectations of forum decorum will not be met. You should probably find a most suitable forum for yourself.

The freedom of expression given in this forum cannot be abused to make factually inaccurate statements especially about religous institutions. To demand an evidence of malicious charges does not mandate revelation of identity. I trust the forum owners agree to this. Would a statement like 'Brahmins of old bribed others into accepting that brahmins are the highest caste' be acceptable without evidence? Would a demand for evidence of such statement mandate revelation of the demander's identity?

 

[biswa]

Could you prove with evidence that churches give Rs.100 to whomsoever visits every Sunday? Have you ever visited one such church and were offered Rs.100? If your statement is true, sincere, honest reveal that church to us and we will take appropriate action. I have the authority.

Ok, finally I found the relevant post. The Rs 100 story was told by her household maid to my wife, so I dont know the name of the church, neither does my wife I think. But you are right and I am wrong. This was 4-5 years ago. Now the amount must be Rs 500 I think.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Religious Conversion from hinduism to other faiths which thrive on proselytization, is the price which hindus have to pay at present for all the inhuman treatment which was meted out to the Shudras (present day SCs, STs, OBCs, MBCs and so on). It is our own "Karma Theory" hitting us where it matters most (viz., the "balls"!), so to say. Do the other forward castes bother about such "conversions"? I don't think. Then why we, tabras, alone bother about this so much? Are we, the tabras, in a position to give equal status to all those who are converting due to maltreatment on the basis of castes, with us brahmins by dining along with such caste people or by inter-marrying? Obviously, a big NO.

Then why shed cocodile tears only because the hindutva vote bank will shrink whereas the Christian and Muslim vote banks will become more powerful and decisive in national/state affairs?

Per your reply, it seems that only NBs are leaving Hindu fold. It is not true. Many Brahmins
are also getting converted.

NBs' role in the propagation of Hinduism is noteworthy.

Hinduism can be classified into two aspects -

Brahminical Hinduism gives importance to Myth and Sringararasam (Bhagavatham, Ramayana, Mahabharatha, Gita, Thiruppavai etc.), whereas

Non-Brahmical Hinduism gives importance to Bhakthi (Thevaram, Thiruvasagam, Peria Puranam,
Thiruvembhavai, Thirupugash etc.)

Please, therefore, don't undermine the role played by NBs for the development of Hinduism, and it is wrong notion that only NBs are leving Hindu fold.

Per Manu's Varnashrama Dharma, there were four divisions. While the Brahmins have lost
their space, Pshatriyas and Vysyas, apart from retaining their positions in Politics and Business, are also encroaching the place, which is hitherto being dominated by Brahmins. Only the Sudras, who primarily belong to SCs/STs, are making attempts to occupy the various areas.

After the Reservation Policy becomes a permanent feature, to a certain extent, the lifestyle
of SCs/STs has improved.

Religious leaders from other forward castes are not as popular as Brahmin leaders (both
Advaitha and Vaishnava).

 

[krish44]

Welcome to the forum. Obviously you are a newbie. Most likely your high expectations of forum decorum will not be met. You should probably find a most suitable forum for yourself.

well. I am a newbie myself. I found this forum quite democratic in allowing expression of contrary views. may be if you peg your expectation of forum decorum very high you might be disappointed. Respected member has very high opinion of religeous institutions.I have my car driver who got converted in return for church accomodation and half a day church work besides convent school subsidised education for kids.I read today about Allahs name being used to promote christianity in malaysia and church priest being charged with sedition. what action can the honourable member take if these happen to be true. Identiy is a minor issue.these instituions need a close watch on their activities sometimes I think these fellows deserve only the RSS treatment

 

[sarang]

Last week in tamilnadu, 100 dalits converted to budhdhism. This group has built a mariamman temple in their village. Conversion is because their religious procession through a particular road is not allowed by the higher castes of the village.

Most of the conversions are due to social and bribing issues.

Religious Conversion from hinduism to other faiths which thrive on proselytization, is the price which hindus have to pay at present for all the inhuman treatment which was meted out to the Shudras (present day SCs, STs, OBCs, MBCs and so on). It is our own "Karma Theory" hitting us where it matters most (viz., the "balls"!), so to say. Do the other forward castes bother about such "conversions"? I don't think. Then why we, tabras, alone bother about this so much? Are we, the tabras, in a position to give equal status to all those who are converting due to maltreatment on the basis of castes, with us brahmins by dining along with such caste people or by inter-marrying? Obviously, a big NO.

Then why shed cocodile tears only because the hindutva vote bank will shrink whereas the Christian and Muslim vote banks will become more powerful and decisive in national/state affairs?

 

[krish44]

Last week in tamilnadu, 100 dalits converted to budhdhism. This group has built a mariamman temple in their village. Conversion is because their religious procession through a particular road is not allowed by the higher castes of the village.

Most of the conversions are due to social and bribing issues.

does it matter

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Sorry, I missed several pages of this discussion. Who or what is "Kuvalayavalli"?

I hope I spelled that correctly. For the first time I am getting mentioned in so many posts. Feeling quite giddy. :-D

Who is Kuvalayavalli?

1. Human Being
2. Bureaucrat
3. Related to JJ

What is Kuvalayavalli?

1. Name of Lord Ranganatha's consort in Nayinamalai, Sendamangalam Taluk, Namakkal District
2. My pseudonym in this forum


"Feeling quite giddy. :-D"

Coz you are guilty, perhaps you bluffed!!

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

...Obviously you are a newbie..

Far beyond the scope of your business.

Most likely your high expectations of forum decorum will not be met. .

Gross misrepresentation of this forum, an underestimation of the standards of this forum. This forum more than meets my expectations. Perhaps you do not qualify to be a member here and hence do not belong here.

You should probably find a most suitable forum for yourself.

Could you provide a reason why you must not be disqualified from this forum for misrepresentation and under-estimation of its standards?

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

.....so I dont know the name of the church, neither does my wife I think.

Then you are a BLUFF!!!!

.....But you are right and I am wrong. .

This I discovered long ago.

..... I think.

Are you alright?

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

does it matter

Indeed it is a matter of SERIOUS CONCERN for those who are not convinced about their own faith, for those who do not have confidence in themselves, for those who do not trust in themselves, for those who are not courageous to face adversities in life, for those who take refuge in a comfortable life with nil challenges, for those who do not have the guts to face catastrophies, calamities and cataclysms in life.

 

[krish44]

Indeed it is a matter of SERIOUS CONCERN for those who are not convinced about their own faith, for those who do not have confidence in themselves, for those who do not trust in themselves, for those who are not courageous to face adversities in life, for those who take refuge in a comfortable life with nil challenges, for those who do not have the guts to face catastrophies, calamities and cataclysms in life.

madam ji
in a country of 120 crores a few changing their religion is not a country shaking event. religion is the personal faith of a person and any individual can choose,change his faith or be faithless if need be . just defending religeous institutions and acting as if they do not do any wrong at all and asking for evidence shows mindset of a prosecuting lawyer looking for evidence to pick holes in. I like yr combative style . keep it up.we have got a good member to keep us busy

 

[krish44]

Who is Kuvalayavalli?

1. Human Being
2. Bureaucrat
3. Related to JJ

What is Kuvalayavalli?

1. Name of Lord Ranganatha's consort in Nayinamalai, Sendamangalam Taluk, Namakkal District
2. My pseudonym in this forum


"Feeling quite giddy. :-D"

Coz you are guilty, perhaps you bluffed!!

1Who- r u all three or one of the three. LOL
2what-got educated about the name . thanks.

 

[sangom]

Could you prove with evidence that churches give Rs.100 to whomsoever visits every Sunday? Have you ever visited one such church and were offered Rs.100? If your statement is true, sincere, honest reveal that church to us and we will take appropriate action. I have the authority.

Kuvalayavalli,

People who convert - especially tabras - bargain with the Church authorities and I know a case of one tabra family converting to Christianity for which the Church paid off debts/loans to the tune of Rs.10lakhs (for 5 members' conversion). I am also told that in some very, very poor coastal villages of TN and A.P., the poor people are given a free gift packet of rice and other essential food items plus a small amount of cash per family/household if any person from that family/household attends the Mass on Sunday. But I don't know how far the second point is true.

 

[Vaagmi]

Hi Kuvalaya,

This is what is said in post #47 by vgane:

Let us take the example of the Koodankulam anti nuclear agitation...The Church is spearheading the agitation in the garb of an NGO...The local Hindus are not supporting this...Due to the agitation Power plant production was delayed by almost 6 months

Let us take the North East which is now fully under the control of Church...You cannot bypass the Church in Mizoram or Nagaland ..In case you do, you will be excoriated and subjected to other forms of agitations and militant terror..Why are the MSM silent about it??

Finally it boils down to "Is secularism only for Hindus"?

Any counter or objection to this also? Is vgane guilty of misrepresentation of facts or telling lies? If not, then the thrust of the accusations by Biswa stands while the specific incident quoted lacks proof. What do you say?

 

[Vaagmi]

1Who- r u all three or one of the three. LOL
2what-got educated about the name . thanks.

"Related to JJ"--Who is this JJ?

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I refer to post 74.
"JJ' could be the present chief Minister of Tamilnadu.I am not sure.
I only recollect the reaction of Cricketer from Kerala when confronted by Police referred to his connection to higher ups in Political circles,but the Police were not convinced
.
Humility and respect to others is always Good.