Remove the Caste based Reservation System

[zebra16]

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Sri Sangom Sir,

The discussions between ozone and kunjuppu are not germane to our discussions here. I won't badmouth a person if I am unable to counter some point made by him. Kunjuppu had authoritative facts about corruption among brahmin officials. I too have heard many instances, but most of them are by word of mouth. But recently one thing came out in newspaper. When the Secretariat for the Trvancore government was to be built, the then Dewan, Sir T. Madhava Rao, managed to move the powers that be and got his own lands selected. The land was sold at exorbitant prices (called "ponnum vila" in Malayalam) and the beneficiary was the Dewan!

About the high-lighted part of your message. Please say how it is relevant to the discussion on hand? It is given that there will be black-sheep in any community and may be the brahmin community exaggerate their honesty and integrity (just as you exaggerate the supposed deprivations of the lower strata of society for 5000 years).

Sri Lalu Prasad Yadav is convicted of fodder scam. Has that resulted in removal of yadavs from OBC quota? So why should financial malfeasance of Diwan of Travancore inhibit TBs from sharing their view points in a TB forum?

 

[sarang]

1. Brahmins as a varna never exploited or eliminated or enslaved any section of vast population of akanda bharata varsha; there is no evidence literary or physical or royal edicts to support this.
2. The groups that did not accept the pure and ritualistic way of life of brahmins had the freedom and did separate to form new dharma (budhdhism) or avedic systems, and generally kings did not intervene.
3. Vedic knowledge and philosophy was available and known to vast sections of other than brahmins; azhwars, nayanmars in south and hundreds of other abrahminical groups; all have practiced, sung and propagated all over india.
4. None of the south indian kings enslaved any community or put serious restrictions in their way of life. All served the king when needed (say war) and contributed to the local village economy governed by dharmic panchayats.
5. Brahmins were respected for their knowledge, lifestyle and accommodation and advice on religious, vedantic and loukika issues, and were part of the village life and economy.
6. Brahmins moved with the times carrying their knowledge and anushtanam for thousands of years, holding on to the basics, and branching out to new groups when influenced by acharyas and gurus. All acharyas and gurus had sishyas and followers from all varnas and jatis. All sishyas benefited from the guru's grace and wisdom.
7. Unfortunately some brahmins fell for the schemes of the british, and want a no brahmin land.
8. Leading an 'anushtanam' way of life, learning scriptures and being a 'visible brhamin' is possible while following arthic and career ambitions.

 

[zebra16]

Sri Sangom Sir,

But Kolhapur of Sahu Maharaj was not India! Hence, for most of India it was not applicablle, nor have you given how this order of Sahu Maharaj was implemented in actual practice!

I wish you were not dismissive about Maratha empire as if it was a small by-lane Thiruvanantapuram.

You may please have a look at google map of Maratha empire here : https://www.google.co.in/search?q=m...FRRQx8LnM:&usg=__8VLOrHMk6yGa9mpu7fp14XGn2NU=

To my naked eye it approximately covers 60% to 70% of land mass in India in 1758, the period immediately after the death of Sahu Maharaj. Hence your averment that it was not covering major portion of India is erroneous.

Wikipedia says :

QUOTE

• Shahuji was instrumental in giving space to new talents irrespective of their background. During his tenure almost all sections of society rose to power. Perhaps the Maratha empire was the most socially mobile empire which accommodated many new socio-economic groups which hitherto were miles away from power and that caused a socio-political revolution.

UNQUOTE

I can dwell deep into history books and give specfic economic amelioration schemes implemented by him, if you need the same.

But can you please give the specific instances of exploitation of lower class people during his rule instead of generalised statement that the upper classes usurped everything under the sun for their own benefit?

 

[zebra16]

Sri Sangom Sir,

Who are all in the Yadu "dynasty" today? Can you list out, with their unbroken lineage from Krishna? Did not Krishna belong to Nanda vamsa? Was he a Yadava, really? If so, what have your "yadu dynasty" to do with Krishna?

Are you really serious? If Sri Krishna was not a yadava why does Srimat Bhagvatam, Canto 9, Chapter we, verse 19-20 say that one who hears about the exploits of yadavas will be freed of past sins?

Why does Krishna ashtottaram describes Him as " yAdavEndrAi namaH", "yadUdvahAi namaH" if be belonged to nanda-vamSam as you say? It is simple. Lord Krishna belonged to the yadu dynasty.

What makes you think that he belongs to Nanda dynasty rather than Yadu dynasty? Can you share some references?

Where is it mandated that one claiming reservations should declare unbroken lineage of his dynasty or one who is disentitled to it should show it?

 

[zebra16]

Sri Sangom Sir,

Sri Narayanan,


I am sure, given the political and social realities as they now are, the system of reservations will continue for at least the next 100 years, if not more. Why don't you see that this system which was intended to last for 10 years, as per the original constitution, has got enlarged and is gaining strength even after 65 years?

What will come to pass in the future, I cannot say.

But I feel that you overlook the irony of this system that inspite of more than 60 years of its implementation, the country has not been able to produce a Prime Minister who has been pushed up by the benefit of this reservation scheme of things. The sphere of influence of the elected politicians who have come up after the Mandal commission has remained restricted to the domain area of his/her State.

The non-forward community Prime Minister who we have now, did not obviously need the benefit of reservation.

Reservation looks good on paper where people can exhibit token results of achievement like the first Dalit President of India, first Woman President of India, first minority President of India etc. It works well where persons can be nominated to the posts of authority.

If the politicians cannot leverage the benefits to themselves, and being selfish which they are, one can always expect tweaking and fine tuning or even complete overhaul of the system.

 

[kr sekar]

The reservation policy was intended to be operative for a certain period of time but it is continuing till date. The benefit accrued by this policy to the communities to whom it was meant is only meager. Not everybody covered under the reservation policy has benefited. Only a fraction has got employment from those communities for lack of employment opportunities. A large number of those belonging to these communities are still unemployed or are earning their livelihood by their own profession, etc. The percentage of reservation is 15% for SC and 7.5% for ST and 27% for OBC. Not all the reserved posts remain filled up. Even if they are filled up in all the States, there will remain a large number of people from these communities unemployed. Therefore, reservation is no solution. What is required is imparting education to all the underprivileged free of cost to make them compete in the employment market with merit. Let there be totally free education to all these in the categories of SC,ST and OBC and economically backward. This will only ensure proper social justice.

 

[srigou]

I am not talking of past glory but the present and the future. I hope you are able to understand the tense I have used. Nevertheless, you should know a Brahmin as a single entity does not care about any other being on earth and it is the other entities that seek a Brahmin. Examples are Vasishta and not long ago Ramana. Why, even today any Brahmin is an isolated power. You call my utterances unfortunate though you have no business to do so. Another important point you should note is that we as Brahmins need nobody's support, although I do not know about you. I can clearly say that we in our family have struggled through the past nearly 130 years and have succeeded without looking for the sympathy of others. I am sure there are millions of such Brahmins. If you need any sympathy we can certainly extend our support to you. But you are an exception. Lastly, you must know the only claim a Brahmin could make is to go and seek biksha ("bhavati bikshandehi"). He does not need anything else. Remember a Brahmin seeks knowledge and a person who is knowledgeable claims no right as he is supreme and Gods bow to such a person. Do not reduce the Brahmins to mean minded people running behind the so called rights. Our rights are born with us and we are not at the mercy of someone to give it to us. Best wishes to you.

 

[sarang]

Only reservation that had sanction and which survives till today is veda reciting, teaching and performing vedic yagnas. Rest were open to all in the distant past and now also.

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,

I have to break my reply in parts to ensure that the reply does not become excessively lengthy.

It is not that my rebuttal is hollow, but your claim of 5000 years of enjoyment of benefits by higher castes which is hollow and simply a gigantic exaggeration.

What is the basis for your claim? If the current year is 2015 AD on which evidence you claim that from 2985 BC exploitation of the lower strata started? Will you please give some evidence?
Now about class divisions and puruSa Suktam and its interpolation. I suggest you read Dr. B R Ambedkar's book "Who are the Sudras", if you have not done so.

Shri Narayanan,

It seems you can look at caste-based system with so much accuracy that you say such atrocities started in BC2985. I am afraid that if this discussion continues, you may even find out the exact Muhurtham when the caste system came into being!

I do not have any methods for such precise measurements. But I have read that the older Dharmasastras like those of Gautama, Baudhayana, Apastamba, as also Yaska's Nirukta refer to earlier texts on Dharmasastras. These old Dharmasutras are believed to have been composed in the first half of the first millenium B.C., i.e., between 1000B.C. and 500B.C. Hence all these texts are nearly 3000 years old by now.

Since these 3000 year texts talk about things which had already become established customs and rules (and not practices by order of some king or another) it is reasonable to allow another 1000 years for these practices to have existed.

Purusha sooktam of the rigveda can be said to be composed 2000 to 2500 years before CE and hence we may safely say that the caste system or division of the society into the four classes is 4500 years old. I had merely rounded it up to 5000 years from memory when I wrote the post.

Hope this is sufficient evidence.

(i) The varNa "Shudra" does not appear even once in Rig Veda, apart from mention in puruSa sUktam.

(ii) If puruSa sUktam is indeed a part of the original part of Rg Veda, then prajApathi definitely stopped creating Shudras from his feet from the yajurveda days because mantra 11.4.11.11 of SatapAtha Brahmanam of Sukla Yajurveda says from BhuH he created brAmhaNas, from BhuvaH he created kshatriyas and from suvaH the vaisyas. Therefore, no creation of the fourth varNa. So how come the fourth varNa members are there even when prajApathi stopped creating them?

(iii) How come the mantra-dhrashTa of Rg. 9.112.3 of Soma pavamana says, that he is a poet, his father is a physician and his mother is a corn grinder if the class/caste segregration was so rigid?

That reference to sudra appears in rigveda, only in the purusha suktam, is a fact. That way, in the tenth book itself, there is reference to the Yama-yamee samvada and this topic does not appear elsewhere in the rigveda. We cannot say, therefore, that the practice of sibling marriage just started when the suktas of the tenth book were compiled and did not at all exist earlier or later, and hence was just a one-off aberration just for enabling the rishi concerned to write a whole sukta, can we?

sathapathabrAhmaNam (SB) forms an integral part of the Shukla Yajurveda and scholars date it to 800 B.C. with its last revision being considered as being around 300 B.C. The Eggeling version, available in sacredtexts.org has only 4 brahmanas under eleventh kANda. So Iam unable to find the 11.4.11.11.

In many other scriptures also, you will find reference to bhUH, bhuvaH and suvaH only. Even in the most basic gAyatree japam we say only "Om bhUrbhuvassuvaH" and this has been so for possibly as long as brahmins practised Sandhyavandanam. Will it therefore mean that since Prajapati stopped creating the fourth varna, there has been no fourth varna ever and all the Dharmasastras were all cheating us right through? This is the problem when we import emotions into a discusion, I feel.

Our ancients had this threefold classification of bhUH, bhuvaH and suvaH to denote the ground, the moountain sides and the sky, the last one being also called dyauH as also div. They also had only three vedas for quite some time and hence the usage of "trayee veda". Hence, in an ancient text like SB, it is natural to find only the three and the scribe who composed that particular para must have referred to only the three higher castes/varnas. I will say that this is one of the oldest instance of marginalization of the sudras!

Even in Purushasooktam, whereas the brahmana forms the face of the sacrificed and cut purusha, the kshatriya the purusha's upper arm or arm, the vaishya forms his (purusha's) thighs, the sudra does not form any part (not even the sisnam, vrishanam or bhagam) but are said to have been born from the purusha's feet. The difference in status is easy to see; the sudra does not "form" any part of the primeval purusha but was merely "born" from the purusha's feet!

If you see Taittireeyopanishat, you find "bhūrbhuvassuvariti vā etāstisro vyāhṛtayaḥ | tāsāmu ha smaitām caturthīm māhācamasya pravedayate|maha iti | tadbrahma | sa ātmā |...etc."
This is clear evidence of what I said above.

RV 9.112.3 just says that "that he is a poet, his father is a physician and his mother is a corn grinder" in the context of his subsequent nānādhiyovasūyavonugā ivatasthimendrāyendroparisrava |

which means we all do different jobs in our search for wealth, and live our lives in this world, just as cows yield milk and spend their lifetime in the stable, Soma for Indra's sake flow freely.
There is no indication here that because of the different jobs that the father, mother and the poet do, they are of different castes. Even in my lifetime I have seen many orthodox Nambudiri (and tabra) women pounding paddy for rice, rice for flour etc. Rice flour obtained by low caste women pounding it was considered polluted. Paady could be pounded by nair women but not rice!
Hence RV 9-112-3 does not indicate anything at all about caste segregation—for or against.

(iv) How come the description of six rutus mentioned in taittiriya aranka from mantra 1.12 to 1.17, get reduced just to bland three in the puruSa sUktam if the puruSa sUktam was composed in the Gandhar region of Afganistan/Balochistan area?

The "question of three" again revolves around bhūrbhuvassuvariti vā etāstisro vyāhṛtayaḥ . The explanation has already been given above.

(v) Why would SatapAtha BrAhmaNam give the mode of addressing brAhmaNa, kshatriya, vaisya and Sudra yajamanan (yes Sudra yajamanan - sacrificer) in the yajna vedi-s if they (the shudras) were not at all permitted in the yajna vedis and molten lead was poured into their ears for hearing the vedas? (Please refer to SatapAtha brAhmaNam 1.1.4.12).

All these go to prove that there was not even a separate class of varNa Shudra in Rg vedic period and it started to make its nascent growth in yajur vedic period.

So your saying that 5000 years of exploitation (including the period even before Rg veda) without a shred of evidence is a total exaggeration.

Mahabharata, Santhi Parva (if my memory is correct) shows Bhishma advising Yudhishtira on many things. Among these, Bhishma says that a sudra should never be allowed to have any wealth, and, if found, it should be immediately confiscated by the king. Further, Bhishma adds that exception to the above law is only if the sudra concerned was accumulating the money for getting any yaga conducted (by brahmins, of course). Hence Sudras could also accumulate money and if brahmins did agree, he could have a yaga conducted. But even a kshatriya yajamana was not allowed a seat on the yaga vedi but was required to sit on a seat at a lower level than the yagavedi. Possibly, the sudra yajamana was given an even lower seat or was required to stand, we don't know! But the sudra, even if he were yajamana could not witness the whole yaga and once the anukjnaa was over and the moneys changed hands, had to stand outside. Such details may not be there in the texts, and we have to ask yaga experts about it.

Even in a rajasuyam or pattabhishekam, the brahmanas confer the status of kshatriya to the king but chant a verse which states that 'our king is soma' (implying "not you"). Please look into yajurveda and confirm if this is correct.

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,



About the high-lighted part of your message. Please say how it is relevant to the discussion on hand? It is given that there will be black-sheep in any community and may be the brahmin community exaggerate their honesty and integrity (just as you exaggerate the supposed deprivations of the lower strata of society for 5000 years).

Sri Lalu Prasad Yadav is convicted of fodder scam. Has that resulted in removal of yadavs from OBC quota? So why should financial malfeasance of Diwan of Travancore inhibit TBs from sharing their view points in a TB forum?

Once it is agreed that "there will be black-sheep in any community and may be the brahmin community exaggerate their honesty and integrity" all the remarks about reservation system blocking integrity and merit, crumbles down, does it not? Then why all this hullabaloo about reservations blocking integrity and efficiency? Corruption, inefficiency and all that will continue and, instead of a Lalu Prasad Yadav, we may have a Lalu Prasad Sarma, that's all.

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,




I wish you were not dismissive about Maratha empire as if it was a small by-lane Thiruvanantapuram.

You may please have a look at google map of Maratha empire here : https://www.google.co.in/search?q=m...FRRQx8LnM:&usg=__8VLOrHMk6yGa9mpu7fp14XGn2NU=

To my naked eye it approximately covers 60% to 70% of land mass in India in 1758, the period immediately after the death of Sahu Maharaj. Hence your averment that it was not covering major portion of India is erroneous.

Wikipedia says :

QUOTE

• Shahuji was instrumental in giving space to new talents irrespective of their background. During his tenure almost all sections of society rose to power. Perhaps the Maratha empire was the most socially mobile empire which accommodated many new socio-economic groups which hitherto were miles away from power and that caused a socio-political revolution.

UNQUOTE

I can dwell deep into history books and give specfic economic amelioration schemes implemented by him, if you need the same.

But can you please give the specific instances of exploitation of lower class people during his rule instead of generalised statement that the upper classes usurped everything under the sun for their own benefit?

Shri Narayanan,

You had originally said, "Chatrapati Sahu Maharaj of Maratha dynasty implementing such scheme way back in 1901."and you are now giving the map of the Mahratta empire of 1758!

In 1901 the Mahratta empire was no more and the said order should have been issued by the then ruler of the Kolhapur State who, incidentally, was also one Shahu I [Chhatrapati Jashwant (b. 1874 - d. 1922)]. In 1901 this Kolhapur was a small native state under the British and Shahuji was entitled to a 19 gun salute. As per wikipedia, this state "covered an area of 3,165 square miles (8,200 km²). According to the 1901 census, the state population was 910,011, of which 54,373 resided in Kolhapur Town. In 1901, the state enjoyed an estimated revenue of £300,000.[SUP][3]"[/SUP]

I hope the position is now clear. Yet, I will be glad to know all the other economic amelioration schemes implemented by this king of Kolhapur, and not by Chatrapati Shahu, grandson of Shivaji.

You will get full information from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolhapur_State

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,

Are you really serious? If Sri Krishna was not a yadava why does Srimat Bhagvatam, Canto 9, Chapter we, verse 19-20 say that one who hears about the exploits of yadavas will be freed of past sins?

Why does Krishna ashtottaram describes Him as " yAdavEndrAi namaH", "yadUdvahAi namaH" if be belonged to nanda-vamSam as you say? It is simple. Lord Krishna belonged to the yadu dynasty.

What makes you think that he belongs to Nanda dynasty rather than Yadu dynasty? Can you share some references?

Where is it mandated that one claiming reservations should declare unbroken lineage of his dynasty or one who is disentitled to it should show it?

Shri Narayanan,

Though Krishna is referred to as yAdavEndra, yadUdvaha, yadukulatilaka, etc., and he comes in the lineage of yadu s/o Yayati, Krishna is a vrishni (vrishni was the grandson of kArthaveeryArjuna). The rishis cursed all the vrishnis and andhakas, two sub-clans of Yadavas to extinction, and accordingly, everyone of the vrishnis was killed leaving no one at all. I asked about Nanda because krishna grew up in Nanda's care.

So, the Yadavas of today may have only mythical relation or lineage of Krishna. To talk about Krishna and reservation as OBC for today's Yadavas is therefore very far-fetched both in terms of time frame and also lineage/ relationship, I feel.

 

[srigou]

I can only pity you. A Brahmin does not bother about death. That is clearly uttered by any Brahmin who does tarpan each month. It goes like this " Na mata, na pita, na bhrata, na bandhuhu...." So if Brahmins have been annihilated so what? By the by from where do you get evidence to say that Brahmins have been annihilated? Can you please quote?

As far as your argument regarding knowledge, please read the discussion between Udanga and Krishna in Mahabharata and how Krishna fears for the sage Udanaga? You want more examples? Read the puranas and how the saptarishis are found to be more supreme than god? These sages are Brahmins practicing vedas. If your knowledge is limited to suktas, rudram and chamakam, it is not the case with others. Please talk to eminent persons who have knowledge of sastras, you will come to know. In fact Mahabharata is full of examples of Brahmins practicing vedas are considered supreme to Gods like Visnu or Siva. They have the power to curse the "so called Gods". Finally your acrimony "chest thumping" can only be construed as spoken by someone who has strong inferiority complex. These kinds of words do not emanate from learned people. Best wishes.

It now seems perfectly plausible to me that many brahmins of yore must have thought exactly on these lines and were annihilated by invaders!

Many tabras who are at best quasi brahmins claim that since they know Veda, they are invincible; for added effect, some may even drop in names like "apratiratha sUktam"! What this person may be knowing will be just purushasUktam, rudram & chamakam and a few other sUktams which almost all tabras might be knowing to recite, sans the meanings.

Nowhere is it said that knowledge is more supreme than even the so called God.

This is a fine example of very empty chest thumping!

 

[srigou]

Why should anyone be educated or not-educated? A Brahmin is not more powerful than others because of education alone. It comes from the genes. A jasmine remains a jasmine because of the genes. A lion cannot become a domestic cat because of genes. Similarly a kshtriya or vysya or sudra will remain what he is regardless of education because of genes. It is a misnomer to believe education is going to bring great boons to the so called underprivileged persons. By the by who helps a brahmana? Is there a single soul on earth that will whole heartedly support a Brahmin in any aspect? But for his intellectual power and ability to understand contexts and aspects that are intricate no buggar on earth will ever bother about him. In fact current day education is one of the most useless and corrupt. It is a nonsense beyond a certain level. Remember even with high qualification a sudra will remain a sudra. Best wises

The reservation policy was intended to be operative for a certain period of time but it is continuing till date. The benefit accrued by this policy to the communities to whom it was meant is only meager. Not everybody covered under the reservation policy has benefited. Only a fraction has got employment from those communities for lack of employment opportunities. A large number of those belonging to these communities are still unemployed or are earning their livelihood by their own profession, etc. The percentage of reservation is 15% for SC and 7.5% for ST and 27% for OBC. Not all the reserved posts remain filled up. Even if they are filled up in all the States, there will remain a large number of people from these communities unemployed. Therefore, reservation is no solution. What is required is imparting education to all the underprivileged free of cost to make them compete in the employment market with merit. Let there be totally free education to all these in the categories of SC,ST and OBC and economically backward. This will only ensure proper social justice.

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Sir,

What will come to pass in the future, I cannot say.

But I feel that you overlook the irony of this system that inspite of more than 60 years of its implementation, the country has not been able to produce a Prime Minister who has been pushed up by the benefit of this reservation scheme of things. The sphere of influence of the elected politicians who have come up after the Mandal commission has remained restricted to the domain area of his/her State.

The non-forward community Prime Minister who we have now, did not obviously need the benefit of reservation.

Reservation looks good on paper where people can exhibit token results of achievement like the first Dalit President of India, first Woman President of India, first minority President of India etc. It works well where persons can be nominated to the posts of authority.

If the politicians cannot leverage the benefits to themselves, and being selfish which they are, one can always expect tweaking and fine tuning or even complete overhaul of the system.

We have not agreed about the period for which the sudras had been systematically sidelined/marginalized to virtual slavery type of existence, but it goes right back to even the rigvedic period can be said with surety. Tai. Br.I-2-6 says, with reference to the Mahavrata, that a brAhmaNa is the divine varna and the sudra is the AsUrya varNa. It therefore appears that in those very ancient days itself, there were two mutually antagonistic groups, the Aryas and the Dasyus or Dasas. Rigveda III-12-6 says, "O Indra & Agni, by one effort together you shook ninety cities that had dasas as overlords." In the Aitareya-brahmana 35. 2-4 it is said that soma is the food of brahmanas and that a ksatriya was to press the tendrils of the Nyagrodha tree and the fruits of Udumbara, Asvattha and Plaksa and drink the juice so pressed instead of soma. There are many more such gems in our scriptures which will show that brahmanas, kshatriyas, vaisyas and sudras were clearly formed social groups even in the remotest past. And then, even the oldest Dharmasutras clearly lay down that a brahmana is by birth alone!

It is therefore clear that caste classification and caste deprivation was in existence in India for a very long time; if not for 5000 years, at least for 1600 years as claimed by Dr. Ambedkar. The Constituent assembly which had good enough representation from the three higher castes also, decided to have certain affirmative action to undo the harm done to some of these deprived sections and the reservation system came into force. even after 65 years it is reported that close to one million bhangi and dalit families still live by carrying human faeces on their heads and by cleaning lavatories. The reservation system was secretly undone for close to 25 or 30 years by saying no adequately qualified candidate from the reserved category was available and even the reserved seats were enjoyed by the higher castes in government appointments. The government had to bring in harsher law to stem this rampant misuse. So, the reservation benefits did not accrue to those for whom it was put in place! The higher castes conspired to swallow the whole.

Things being like this and since our voting system is based on "one man, one vote" those who have the numerical strength will win and the deprived classes will not easily forego a way out for them from their centuries old hellish existence. That is why this reservation will not easily go away.

We had Jagjivan Ram but he was ingeniously kept our from PM's post. His daughter Meira Kumar is still there but she also may not become PM. For most of these low caste people, even now it is "Dilli door ast" as they say, thanks to the mentality of the high castes and that is the strongest reason why reservations will (and should) continue, imho.

 

[srigou]

You can gloat in reservation so that the rest of the animal kingdom can laugh at us. Oppression, oppressed, oppressor etc are words for defeatists. A Brahmin does not care whether you have reservation or not. Since time in memory a Brahmin has faced opposition. Nothing new about this silly concept called reservation. It will not affect Brahmins. Best wishes.

I am for reservation - Would love to see the constitution and schedule updated to count for some ground realities.
The oppression and humiliation layer cake is the weirdest and most diverse in the world and it needs really a scientific
approach to justly apportion the benefits of affirmative action and effectively track the upward mobilization of the oppressed.
Having a 'free' and 'unmonitored' implementation has indeed resulted in some strange cases where the oppressed have become oppressors in
certain pockets..However to complain that the 'country has gone to drains because of this' is simply juvenile.

 

[tbs]

hi

படேல் சமூகத்தினரின் போராட்டம் நாடு முழுவதும் விரிவுபடுத்தப்படும்: ஹார்திக் படேல்


By புது தில்லி/ ஆமதாபாத்,
First Published : 31 August 2015 12:34 AM IST

"கல்வி, அரசு வேலைவாய்ப்புகளில் இடஒதுக்கீடு வழங்கக் கோரி, குர்மி, குஜ்ஜார் சமூகத்தினரையும் சேர்த்து நாடு முழுவதும் போராட்டம் விரிவுபடுத்தப்படும்' என்று படேல் சமூக போராட்டக் குழுவின் ஒருங்கிணைப்பாளர் ஹார்திக் படேல் எச்சரிக்கை விடுத்துள்ளார்.
குஜ்ஜார், கோரி, குர்மி உள்ளிட்ட சமூகங்களின் தலைவர்களைச் சந்திப்பதற்காக ஞாயிற்றுக்கிழமை தில்லி வந்த ஹார்திக் படேல், செய்தியாளர்களுக்குப் பேட்டியளித்தார். அப்போது, அவர் கூறியதாவது:
இடஒதுக்கீடு கோரி நாங்கள் நடத்தும் போராட்டம், மாரத்தான் ஓட்டம் போன்றது. இது முடிவடைய 1- 2 ஆண்டுகள் வரை ஆகும்.
இதற்காக, பல்வேறு மாநிலங்களில் வசிக்கும் எங்கள் சமூகத்தைச் சேர்ந்த 27 கோடி பேரை ஒருங்கிணைத்து, எங்களது போராட்டத்தை நாடு முழுவதும் விரிவுபடுத்தத் திட்டமிட்டுள்ளேன். எங்களது சமூகத்தின் வலிமையை அரசுக்குத் தெரிவிக்க வேண்டிய அவசியம் ஏற்பட்டால் நாங்கள் ஒன்றிணைவோம். தேவைப்பட்டால் நெடுஞ்சாலையில் மறியலில் கூட ஈடுபடுவோம். எங்களது கோரிக்கையை வலியுறுத்தி, தில்லி ஜந்தர்மந்தர், லக்னெü ஆகிய இடங்களில் பொதுக்கூட்டம் நடத்த திட்டமிட்டுள்ளோம்.
ஜாதிவாரி இடஒதுக்கீடு அளிப்பதால், இந்தியா 60 ஆண்டுகள் பின்னோக்கிச் சென்றுவிட்டது. இதுவே, இந்தியா வல்லரசாவதற்கும் தடையாக இருக்கிறது.
நாட்டில், மொத்தம் 182 ஜாதிகளுக்கு இடஒதுக்கீடு வழங்கப்படுகிறது.
அவற்றில் 4- 5 ஜாதிகள் மட்டுமே குஜராத்தில் உள்ளன.
அனைத்து சமூகத்தைச் சேர்ந்த ஏழைகளுக்கும் இடஒதுக்கீடு வழங்கப்பட வேண்டும் என்றார் ஹார்திக் படேல்.

Thanks dinamani......

even brahmins should support to this patel's agitataion....

 

[yesmohan]

hi

படேல் சமூகத்தினரின் போராட்டம் நாடு முழுவதும் விரிவுபடுத்தப்படும்: ஹார்திக் படேல்
அனைத்து சமூகத்தைச் சேர்ந்த ஏழைகளுக்கும் இடஒதுக்கீடு வழங்கப்பட வேண்டும் என்றார் ஹார்திக் படேல்.

Thanks dinamani......

even brahmins should support to this patel's agitataion....

Even brahmins should support to this patel's agitataion....
Good idea........
But there is no organisation of brahmins outfits without any political affiliation to take the mantle.

 

[tbs]

Even brahmins should support to this patel's agitataion....
Good idea........
But there is no organisation of brahmins outfits without any political affiliation to take the mantle.

hi

its brahmins destiny....

 

[vgane]

State wise OBC reservations! TN is highest amongst all!


http://www.rediff.com/news/report/r...s-the-most-reservations-find-out/20150827.htm

 

[krish44]

Thats why forward castes are in dire straits there.

To be heard, unless they get access to land holdings in rural areas, urban houses [That could bemade possible by overseas TBs] and get concentrated in pockets to increase their

presence in terms of percentages in those areas ,they cannot be politically heard.Even kammas and reddiers in tamilnadu are doing better than TBs. It is because, they

hold sizeable land besides run industries and institutions to take care of themselves. Reddiers have been recognised as OBCs in tamilnadu. even without OBC tags kammas are doing

well due to their hold in industrial enterprise and education.

 

[zebra16]

Even brahmins should support to this patel's agitataion....
Good idea........

It would be most foolish. Please read this article :

'Kitne haath tode maine, maloom?' Meet Hardik Patel, Patidar poster boy and man without a plan


http://www.firstpost.com/politics/k...oster-boy-and-man-without-a-plan-2413230.html

 

[sarang]

Hardik is another kejri, volatile and without principles. A destroyer, not a builder.

 

[auh]

It would be most foolish. Please read this article :

'Kitne haath tode maine, maloom?' Meet Hardik Patel, Patidar poster boy and man without a plan


http://www.firstpost.com/politics/k...oster-boy-and-man-without-a-plan-2413230.html

But he is only a natural outcome of the political system adopted !

 

[krish44]

Hardik is another kejri, volatile and without principles. A destroyer, not a builder.

Kejri has redefined politics in delhi.

His govt has done in delhi far better than modi in india.

I have faced no problems with utilities power and water whole of summer and rainy season.

I hardly come across petty corruption which was rampant before.

Policemen behave themselves or they face the wrath of the media and the public.

law and order is much better.

even the onion crisis, I get onion at my doorstep at control rates.

Hardik will do good if he stands up to reservation policy . He is doing what TBs could /did not do when they got marginalised.

He openly says he is asking for reservation as meritocracy is taking a backseat and his community members who are in distress and they are denied access to

education and govt jobs. His followers are seeing merit in his argument . All lies and projections regarding gujarat are getting exposed.Gujarat model of manufacturing

without services is as much a failure as those with only services and no manufacturing. BJP is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It mifght end up losing gujarat

if Hardik gets a good following. He has touched a chord in people and is genuine.