Ritual Purity and Men.

[sarang]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

From acharakovai, sangam period:

3. தக்கிணை முதலியவை மேற்கொள்ளல்
(இன்னிசை சிந்தியல் வெண்பா)
தக்கிணை வேள்வி தவம்கல்வி இந்நான்கும்
முப்பால் ஒழுக்கினால் காத்துய்க்க - உய்க்காக்கால்
எப்பாலும் ஆகா கெடும்.

 

[Raji Ram]

....Now in my home there is no Pooja room anymore.

I feel I can not confine God to a room anymore.

Heee! Heee! Another traditional thought! :decision:

 

[renuka]

Then all the sastras, religious and secular literature of sanatana dharma and the bhashyas of the acharyas are meaningless.

Even in common civil functions protocol and ritual are important to give meaning and importance to any function. Every ritual has a meaning and purpose; perhaps not understood, superfluous by today's standards. Without rituals in personal and public worship, our dharma may take a beating, but some adherents will save the day.

Dear Sarang ji,

I beg to differ. In my post to RR ji above I wrote that I do not have a Pooja room anymore in my home.

The reason is becos I do not want to confine God anymore in a room.

I dont consider the act of not having a Pooja room being anti tradition at all because actual tradition says that God is limitless.

I am still the same person with or without Pooja room.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,
Educate your children: Hariyum Sivanum oNNu!! eace:

 

[renuka]

this pooja room .thing

all TBs like to have one

My son who bought a flat recently is being persuaded to have a pooja room in his new flat

Poor fellow ,he has engaged an interior decorator to create space for first iyer Gods [ his wife is an iyer] .

Not to be left behind my wife would like to have iyengar Gods there.

I have forgotten saibaba also beside some swamiji looking for space in the pooja room

most likely my son might end up with a pooja room bigger than his bedroom.

Gods after all require an abode.

Otherwise after bath where will the couple go if not pooja room .[with apologies to RRji]

Dear Krish ji,

Even all Non TBs have Pooja Rooms..some of my friends literally have temples at home with such elaborate decor and imported stuff from India and doors like Vaikuntha with bells etc and full audio visual facilities in the prayer room.

True prayer can come from anywhere and it can happen anytime without the need of a specific pooja room.

I do not however impose this on others but for me my mind preferred it this way.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sarang ji,

I beg to differ. In my post to RR ji above I wrote that I do not have a Pooja room anymore in my home.

The reason is becos I do not want to confine God anymore in a room.

I dont consider the act of not having a Pooja room being anti tradition at all because actual tradition says that God is limitless.

I am still the same person with or without Pooja room.

Dear Renu,

Sarang Sir's reply is to Sravna and not to you!

 

[krish44]

I agree.

At the end of the day we adhere to nothing at the time of death.

All rituals come to a stand still.No ritual is going to take us anywhere but only Dharma follows us like a faithful shadow.

I am not saying that rituals are wrong but just because someone before me adhered to it that does not automatically make me follow it.

But what I fail to understand why there is acute fear in humans all across the world that their culture will vanish?

What actually finally remains?

why this hang up about death all the time?

it is another event like birth

one does not live life thinking of death and life beyond all the time

life is to be taken one day at a time

each day has to be lived fully doing what is possible, and also planning for the next day what cannot be done today.

we will face death when it comes ,just an event and nothing more after that . no culture to think of .no after life . only reduced to ash and pieces of bones

why think of other things and be miserable .life is one long celebration .let us all join in that












.

 

[sravna]

Then all the sastras, religious and secular literature of sanatana dharma and the bhashyas of the acharyas are meaningless.

Even in common civil functions protocol and ritual are important to give meaning and importance to any function. Every ritual has a meaning and purpose; perhaps not understood, superfluous by today's standards. Without rituals in personal and public worship, our dharma may take a beating, but some adherents will save the day.

Dear Shri Sarang,

I see rituals as something that impart necessary discipline in a person and enable him to practice the scriptures in an effective way. It is strictly a means of achieving the higher goal of self control. Since achieving self control without some support is difficult for many, rituals can be seen as an aid to that.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish Sir,
Educate your children: Hariyum Sivanum oNNu!! eace:

First I have to believe in worship of these entities.

secondly I stay away in imposing/ my ideas of religon / worship on anyone else

I do not want to add to the misery of my children

now they are slowly discovering what it means to be married to people and into families who have different ideas and beliefs.

if they care enough about each other , they will make space for each others beliefs

 

[sarang]

Arguments are relevant only when one wants to follow shastric or traditional/cultural rules. For e.g. the tamil saying is - don't live in a town which has no temple. Our ancestors had to and did settle down in far flung areas for various reasons, but they met the criteria by building temples wherever they settled. When krishna says offer simple fruit and water to me every day, some may have a krishna vigraha in the puja cupboard, some (like azhwars) may go to the temple and do the kainkaryam, or a sanyasi with only a biksha patram may do the offering in the river. If one says I don't want to do it, he/she automatically is excluded from the personal god group. All advice is only for the believers and those who wish to adhere; makes no sense to others.

Dear Sarang ji,

I beg to differ. In my post to RR ji above I wrote that I do not have a Pooja room anymore in my home.

The reason is becos I do not want to confine God anymore in a room.

I dont consider the act of not having a Pooja room being anti tradition at all because actual tradition says that God is limitless.

I am still the same person with or without Pooja room.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Sarang Sir's reply is to Sravna and not to you!

I know..I was just stating my opinion on why I differed even though the post is to Sravna.

BTW RR ji..since when we have a "tradition" of only replying posts meant for us!LOL

 

[renuka]

All advice is only for the believers and those who wish to adhere; makes no sense to others.

Dear Sarang ji,


A Non believer will think its nonsense but I am a believer who would like to go beyond sense.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Sarang,

I see rituals as something that impart necessary discipline in a person and enable him to practice the scriptures in an effective way. It is strictly a means of achieving the higher goal of self control. Since achieving self control without some support is difficult for many, rituals can be seen as an aid to that.

Dear Sravna,

But do rituals actually aid a person to achieve self control?

Since a child I never adhered to any ritual. I Never followed anything. Both my brothers adhered to all rules and regulations.

When my parents used to ask me to put off the lamp in the prayer room at night..they had instructed me to slowly push it with a small stick they kept there.

I would never do that . I used to sing "Happy Bday to You" and blow off the wick much to the displeasure of my parents.

They would ask me why are you singing happy bday and I would ask them "When was God born?"

They would not say anything and I would tell them "So it could be anyday.. let me sing Happy B'day for God"

Actually now when I look back in my childhood I feel pity for my parents,they really tolerated me!LOL


So you see even then I turned out pretty fine in life and spiritually inclined.

 

[rishikesan]

Lots of comments have come up, mostly against Purity , even on occasion of Death ? Many opinions are negative & shows easy way of leading life , with no need for understanding seriously about any Topic or subject matter. Let me say in simple terms my practical approach to all the points raised here in the Topics. 1) When we get up in the morning we go to bath room, brush teeth & wash the face & then drink Coffee . Both Men & women do this. However majority of brahmins , both Men & Women try to finish bathing at the earliest , before going to work. Let me tell you :- Will any one like to put on neat dress , when he has not taken bath , which makes one FRESH , not only of Body but also your Mind .People who take longer time for Bath would realise that bathing is a Must & feel good whole day. Will any one like to contradict ? There fore There is vast difference being Clean & not being clean . Are not all of us rush to bath room if any one knocks at the door, may be a stranger ?So appearing clean is the first thing which we do not condemn.
If you decide to go to temple will any one of us would simply leave the house with unshaven face if you are in the habit of shaving atleast alt days ? About Death rituals :- Even in Hospitals these days the next of Kin are prohibited to be inside ICU not more than 2 minutes, & JARGANDI starts. When the person dies will there not be tons of Bacterias & all disease causing <unseen bacterias hovering around to catch any healthy person & make him sick ?
I am sure , we all know that Pure body/ clean Body automatically contributes to fresh mind, & that is all what is required. I only ensure this & some important HYGIENIC things like washing the Feet after reaching home & this is not to be despised ? Don"t you feel SAD when you attend Deaths & feel pleasure when in TEMPLE ?
Let us not ridicule atleast such simple matters & try to adhere, for GOOD .
Note : Dear Mr Krish 44, Please do not get angry on reading the following, which is written in lighter vein & humour intended . You have written that whatever dictated by your wife you , utmost follow only reluctantly . Had you been the groom of this decade, I am sure you would have attempted for DIVORCE ?
Let , we elderly Men & women follow our conscience, which I am sure is by & large PURE , lead others for following Righteous things

Rishikesan

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

But do rituals actually aid a person to achieve self control?

Since a child I never adhered to any ritual. I Never followed anything. Both my brothers adhered to all rules and regulations.

When my parents used to ask me to put off the lamp in the prayer room at night..they had instructed me to slowly push it with a small stick they kept there.

I would never do that . I used to sing "Happy Bday to You" and blow off the wick much to the displeasure of my parents.

They would ask me why are you singing happy bday and I would ask them "When was God born?"

They would not say anything and I would tell them "So it could be anyday let me sing Happy B'day for God"

Actually now when I look back in my childhood I feel pity for my parents,they really tolerated me!LOL


So you see even then I turned out pretty fine in life and spiritually inclined.

Dear Renuka,

You are right. To some self control comes naturally. That is exactly what I was trying to argue. Having said that, I would also say that rituals are not really meaningless but have mostly turned to be that way.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You are right. To some self control comes naturally. That is exactly what I was trying to argue. Having said that, I would also say that rituals are not really meaningless but have mostly turned to be that way.

Agreed..I dont feel its meaningless but if one does not need it there is no harm not adhering to it.

 

[sarang]

What sense? beyond karma-jnanendriyas? Before giving up senses one must understand senses. One must understand the rituals and traditions before discarding them from personal life.

Dear Sarang ji,


A Non believer will think its nonsense but I am a believer who would like to go beyond sense.

 

[renuka]

What sense? beyond karma-jnanendriyas? Before giving up senses one must understand senses. One must understand the rituals and traditions before discarding them from personal life.

Dear Sarang ji,

I am not talking about senses. I am talking about Sense and Nonsense.

A believer holds on to a ritual tightly believing its make sense. He feel he needs the ritual or he is made to believe that rituals prepare him for detachment eventually but in that process he has a risk of becoming attached to the ritual(its evident that many are actually attached to rituals!LOL)

Detachment does not mean adhering to anything new and beneficial....absence of attachment is detachment.

I dont think everyone needs rituals to realize this.


Now coming to Nonsense...a Non Believer thinks that rituals are nonsense.He too gets attached to the idea of nonsense.

So both the Believer and Non Believer here are stuck with being attached to sense and nonsense respectively.

Both are not detached in anyway.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

I remember one of your posts in which you had described the way you saw your husband, when he was doing

sincere prayer in the poojA room, without even realizing that the towel which was the only thing he had worn

slipped down! Have you made some new changes in your house to discard the poojA room or have you shifted

to a new house recently? Or did you see him when he was praying in some other house?

Just curious to know!

 

[renuka]

Have you made some new changes in your house to discard the poojA room

Dear RR ji,


I did not discard the Pooja Room...I decided to make the whole cosmos my Pooja Room and not restrict God to a room....so I did not discard it but rather extended it.

I have shifted all the pics to the wall in the hall to be a piece of art instead.(I can email you if you would like further details)


BTW that incident I was talking about my husband praying attentively happened many years ago.

 

[prasad1]

I did not discard the Pooja Room...I decided to make the whole cosmos my Pooja Room and not restrict God to a room....so I did not discard it but rather extended it.

That is great philosophy.

I have shifted all the pics to the wall in the hall to be a piece of art instead.(I can email you if you would like further details)
They were pieces of art in the pooja room as well.


BTW that incident I was talking about my husband praying attentively happened many years ago.
Has he stopped praying now?

Or may be you stopped surprising him.

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad ji,

I am aware that the pics were pieces of art in the Pooja Room itself but as long they remained in the room the mind would tend to compartmentalize God.

So by spreading all the pics on the wall..its increases the radius of one's mind and compartmentalization is less.

Its a perception and nothing more.

To your question if my husband has stopped praying..the answer is No..he still prays daily in his heart.He too has learnt to pray silently without an image. I did not force him.I never force anyone.

My son since he was a child he used to prefer reciting his prayers all alone in his room after his bath.

So he still does that regularly without fail reciting 108 Namavalli by memory.

So technically the Pooja room has served its purpose for my family and we decided to move on to the next level of increasing the radius of our mind as not to limit God to an image or space.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

It is nice to have the whole world as our pooja room.

But even then I don't think anyone will have the courage (?!) to keep the God picture, which according to some is just

an art piece, on a trash can!! :nono:

There is a phrase 'idam, poruL, Eval' in Tamil which means ''circumstances suitable for something under consideration''.

There is a right place for everything, correct words for every occasion and correct way of doing anything meticulously.


Human mind is a monkey and wanders every moment. A theist has one ishta dEvta and sees / thinks of His /Her form,

which is man made, to focus on the Almighty! Just as we have a washroom for specific purpose, we have a pooja room

for prayer. That is all.


BTW, the nAmAvaLi recited by your son should be about some God / Goddess, as far as I know. Please ask him whether

he has the (man made) image in his mind while reciting it!

 

[Raji Ram]

Think of correct words for any occasion, I remember a story about a smart and not-so-smart younger brother living in a village.

(I think it was shown as a comedy scene in a movie also!)


The elder brother used to go to all the 'nalladhu, kettadhu' of every family in that village and was honoured by everyone.

The younger brother wanted to become popular and requested his brother to take him to also the next time, to know how to talk

to people in the crowd. Done! It was the death of a nice old woman and the condolence message to his son was, 'She was a mother

not only to you but to every one of us in the village!' The younger one thought that condolence message was very easy!

Next time, when a man lost his young wife, this not-so-smart went and replaced the word 'mother' with 'wife'!

And....... You know the result!! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

It is nice to have the whole world as our pooja room.

But even then I don't think anyone will have the courage (?!) to keep the God picture, which according to some is just

an art piece, on a trash can!! :nono:

There is a phrase 'idam, poruL, Eval' in Tamil which means ''circumstances suitable for something under consideration''.

There is a right place for everything, correct words for every occasion and correct way of doing anything meticulously.


Human mind is a monkey and wanders every moment. A theist has one ishta dEvta and sees / thinks of His /Her form,

which is man made, to focus on the Almighty! Just as we have a washroom for specific purpose, we have a pooja room

for prayer. That is all.


BTW, the nAmAvaLi recited by your son should be about some God / Goddess, as far as I know. Please ask him whether

he has the (man made) image in his mind while reciting it!

Dear RR ji,

Trash cans having pics of God happens all the time.Just go to any pilgrimage centre in India and take a look at the garbage bin or the garbage on the road.

You will invariably see a agarbathi cover or a Camphor box cover with a pic of some Hindu Deva or Devi on it.

Everything is just strewn about and no one cares.

Wedding cards are tossed into the garbage bin eventually and that too has symbol of Ganesh most of the while and also the AUM.

So that shows that the human mind is selective in what he considers God.

The pic of God on the agarbathi or Camphor cover or even the cover of an oil bottle will not appeal to him as a pic to be worship..so he has no problem throwing in on the ground or in the garbage bin.

If you dont believe me the next time you go to any pilgrimage center take a look at the garbage bin.

Yes..you are right Human mind is a monkey mind.

The human body has evolved Karmically from the ape but its optional to hold on to the monkey mind.

BTW RR ji,giving up a concept of an image worship and Pooja Room is not becoming an Atheist.

One just wants to not hold to anything external anymore.


Coming to my son I feel he is far more matured than me when it comes to spirituality.

Once I gave him a pic of the Idol of Ambegalu Krishna from Karnataka and he looked at it and gave it back to me.

I asked him why. He said he did not find it attractive and felt Lord Krishna would have certianly looked much better that what was depicted.

Then he told me that "no one has actually seen God. I rather not have an image...if any image appears in my mind that would be my personal image and not someone else's painting"