Self respect movement

[C RAVI]

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Dear brother,
My response in 'blue':

Originally Posted by Nara

Dear brother, he is not one of those worst offenders, but he has the habit of speculating about me, and I find that offensive. I have to tried to reason with him to no avail, I always had to back off.
You are giving him a back handed complement. Tell me where he 'offended'? I have never edited any of his posts. Everyone knows how gentle he is. Even Sri Yamaka Ji said that. Only thing he has criticized is your stand and your ideas. He has every right to do that in a civil language. If he 'speculated', then please direct him properly. We all 'speculate' based on implications. That is part of the conversation. As much as you find such a thing offensive, others here find your 'speculation' about 'Brahminism', calling folks 'hypocrites and week enders' etc. as offensive. It is all in one's perspective, is it not?

For the most recent case, take a look at his speculation as to why I am excerpting EVR, Raghy also cited this. Whether that was a violation or not, it cannot be construed as amicable.
I have already addressed this with Sri Raghy Ji. If you start calling any 'speculating' what you say is not amicable, then each one of us here in the Forum can feel so. I am sorry brother, you, yes even you, speculate sometimes!

I did not use the word "allowed" in the moderation sense. While others are aghast that I am being allowed to excerpt EVR, Raghy is the only one who pointed out that I can say what I want, like Voltaire would do. For that he has been roundly criticized.
Please again, show me where he was specifically 'criticized' for saying that. He was criticized for saying what he said about Sri Ravi Ji.

Well, let it be. Nobody has written anything about the excerpts themselves. All I have seen are like EVR is hater, Nara is his lackey kind of comments. If these are attacks on my ideas, I have a lot to learn.
Again, this is absolutely a wrong statement. I have posted excerpts, even before my last post.

You have been fair to me and I appreciate that.
Thank you!

Cheers!


Regards,
KRS

Thank you very much for your clear remarks with absolute justifications and highlighting unbiased rule of the debating game, Shri KRS.

 

[Nara]

...Please do not make a charge that I am saying 'personal' things about you. Please cite where I am being 'personal'?

Look how many "you" you have used followed by your opinion of what I am or what I have done, or what I should do.

• you tend to answer only the questions you choose to answer
  
• You never said that he was hateful - your attitude
• you seem to feel that I am attacking you!
• but please, do not ridicule others opinions, formed by facts as something less than your own.
• you pass them off as something based on facts.
• You can only cite examples of a few of them being advisers of some kingdoms
• You don't seem to accept the fact
• You don't seem to accept any of this.
• you keep on pushing the idea of some 'Brahminism' that you yourself can not define.
• I don't understand, as bright as you are, how you miss seeing this.
• if you want to change someone, you start with love
• You can say all this and feel good that you have slain the ghosts of evil and feel justified,
• You will only be saying that these guys are all you are saying,
• you understand a community through your own colored glasses. What good does it do?
  
• If you want a whole community to change,

I am sure you will have your justifications, that is why I have been trying hard to stick to topic.

I did not want to do this, but you are forcing my hand (remember you yourself edited out part of his quote, saying that would 'offend' a few of us here):

I also wish you had not done this. Now you are taking it to a place where even more people are going to get riled up. Let it be known that I did not do this.

Given the Brahmins never tire of citing what true Brahmins are made of -- recently Yudishtra Nahusha dialog was cited -- please tell me which of the things you have cited is false.

If you wish we can take one at a time. But I wish we rather not because truth is bitter, and may cause a lot of sentiments to be badly bruised. Not a very pleasant thought.

Thank you ...

 

[Nara]

As much as you find such a thing offensive, others here find your 'speculation' about 'Brahminism', calling folks 'hypocrites and week enders' etc. as offensive. It is all in one's perspective, is it not?

What is the matter with you brother, why are you on my case?

I did not bring up Ravi's name into this at all, you did, in relation to me. All I wanted to do was to state that I was not exactly having an amicable conversation with Ravi, and you have to challenge me on this also?

If people find my "speculation" about Brahminism offensive, please address them to me. But then, even if they were "speculations", they were "speculations" about an ideology I despise. I did not speculate about any member here, did I? I did not "speculate" that Ravi was probably motivated by "braminical hypocrisy", due to his "theistic ideology", blah, blah.

Now, take a look at this http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/8534-self-respect-movement-14.html#post131526. Why? Why must Ravi speculate about what I mean, or not mean, and why? Why must he speculate why I, in Ravi's words, "support" EVR, that too to Raghy, not addressing me?

In the past you have warned members from butting in, I hope you remember. But, now Ravi butting in and commenting about me to Raghy is just fine, but if I say that is one of the reasons why I think we are not having an amicable conversation, that is not acceptable? You can't take my word for it? I have to prove to you whether I am having an amicable conversation or not?

Also, in the past Ravi has made comments as to why we atheists do whatever we do, etc. There have been other such comments too. This is a pattern and it offends me, but not by much, especially compared to the nasty stuff others dish out. This is why I mentioned "he is not one of those worst offenders" and you picked that up and turned it around against me as if I was offering a "back-handed complement".

So, I ask you again, what is the matter with you brother, why are you on my case?

Let me repeat, I did not bring Ravi back into the discussion. You did. I do not have any major problems with him, that is not to say I have no problem at all. It is not a big deal to me.

Please, leave me alone, let us talk about what EVR has written, why they are, are not true, and why that makes him a monster.

Cheers!

p.s.
Ravi, I saw your long post, I have not read it yet, believe me, I don't have any major problem with you. If Shri KRS had not linked you and me with the "amicable" comment, I won't be saying anything at all about you. My only request to you is, please direct your comments about me, to me. Also, please do not speculate about what motivates me, with somebody else. I think these are not unreasonable requests.

 

[Nara]

....If you feel that I have made speculative remarks about you, here, in this thread, I would humbly request you to pardon me.

Ravi, I am no position to pardon anybody. If you think you could have avoided speculating about what motivates me to Raghy instead of asking me directly, then you may elect to pardon yourself by yourself, I have no role to play in this.

As I have said before, Brahmin hatred for EVR is like the impenetrable maya, Brahmins cannot see past it. Brahmins will have to stop thinking they are mighty "Brahmins" -- which is what EVR wanted -- and be able to tear this screen of maya and behold what the man was really advocating.

Cheers!

 

[tbs]

Respected Nara sir,
I can understand abt u very welll....in ur Poorvasrama ...u lived a pure and pious devoted SV....becoz some undigestable things happened
in SV as well as brahminim....u started hating altogether in ur aparashtrama....this is natural and understandable....ur personal experience made like this....like mahatma gandhi had bitter personal experience in South africa...he started hating british raj.....nothing patriotism....likewise ur opinion
against brahminism....every society had good and bad...not everybody buddha.....but everybody can become buddha...my 2 cents..

 

[Nara]

....against brahminism....every society had good and bad...not everybody buddha.....but everybody can become buddha..

Dear tbs, I appreciate your comments, I agree with you, I am not against any particular Brahmin, I love Brahmins, just as much as any NB or Dalit or anyone else, but not more. Problem arises only when Brahmins refuse to take a broader perspective, but opt to be mired under their own parochial outlook.

Irrepective of what many people say here, EVR has been widely successful, beyond what he could have rationally expected, but far less than what he hoped. Today, in the public sphere, jAti supremacy is clearly obsolete and is seen as downright obnoxious. This is EVR's legacy and he has every right to be smiling in his grave.

However, caste affiliation is still a factor, and for that EVR will be weeping in his grave. This is not a matter to point fingers at anyone, but to see how each caste can find a way to shed its own caste identity and evolve. Brahmins must lead the way. Sitting on the top of the caste hierarchy and refusing to reject their own supremacy, Brahmins can't point fingers at the atrocities committed by other caste Hindus. Come clean first, then take to task the other castes. Until then, only parochially minded people with an ax to grind will try to pit one case against another.

The progressive minded people will work within each caste and will try to free the common people from the cuffs of the rich and powerful within their own castes who have a vested interest to perpetuate the caste conflicts. Those who make excuses by pointing fingers at other castes are the real enemies of progress and the welfare of common Brahmins.

The moment a Brahmin frees himself/herself of the burden of caste identity he/she will be ready to embrace humanity just for its own sake. The burden of a Brahmin will be no more critical to him/her than the burden of age old oppression of the Brahminical system weighing the poor Dalit down.

Cheers!

 

[tbs]

Dear tbs, I appreciate your comments, I agree with you, I am not against any particular Brahmin, I love Brahmins, just as much as any NB or Dalit or anyone else, but not more. Problem arises only when Brahmins refuse to take a broader perspective, but opt to be mired under their own parochial outlook.

Irrepective of what many people say here, EVR has been widely successful, beyond what he could have rationally expected, but far less than what he hoped. Today, in the public sphere, jAti supremacy is clearly obsolete and is seen as downright obnoxious. This is EVR's legacy and he has every right to be smiling in his grave.

However, caste affiliation is still a factor, and for that EVR will be weeping in his grave. This is not a matter to point fingers at anyone, but to see how each caste can find a way to shed its own caste identity and evolve. Brahmins must lead the way. Sitting on the top of the caste hierarchy and refusing to reject their own supremacy, Brahmins can't point fingers at the atrocities committed by other caste Hindus. Come clean first, then take to task the other castes. Until then, only parochially minded people with an ax to grind will try to pit one case against another.

The progressive minded people will work within each caste and will try to free the common people from the cuffs of the rich and powerful within their own castes who have a vested interest to perpetuate the caste conflicts. Those who make excuses by pointing fingers at other castes are the real enemies of progress and the welfare of common Brahmins.

The moment a Brahmin frees himself/herself of the burden of caste identity he/she will be ready to embrace humanity just for its own sake. The burden of a Brahmin will be no more critical to him/her than the burden of age old oppression of the Brahminical system weighing the poor Dalit down.

Cheers!

dear sir,
its a system of thousands of years....it wont go so easily/soon...but soon it will go.....the day will come brahmin will do sudra karma..
sudra will become brahmin by his virtue....once soviet was empire.....once british ruled whole world....slowly everything fade away...
sometime we may not able witness the change ....but we can hope fort that....martin luther king never had a chance to see
a black president of the USA....but he had dream.....உங்க ஆதங்கம் எனக்கு புரியறது...

 

[renuka]

From what I have known in my 42 years of life..I feel that almost every caste practices some form of casteism.

Even among Non Brahmin castes you should just hear how people talk about the so called lower castes etc.

I have even had friends from Gounder caste here in M'sia who think no end of themselves and can proudly tell me that when they go back to their villages in Erode India..their families there only let the so called lower caste workers who work for them to drink water in a coconut shell or let water be poured into their hands from a coconut shell.

But its the same people who get angry when they have an encounter with any Brahmin.
Everyone is guilty of Casteism in one way or the other.

 

[Nara]

.....உங்க ஆதங்கம் எனக்கு புரியறது...

Dear tbs, I am so moved by your comment, you made my day, thank you, I appreciate it more than you will know....

Cheers!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

every society had good and bad...not everybody buddha.....but everybody can become buddha...my 2 cents..

Dear TBS, it is not being claimed that brahmins are virtuous by virtue of their birth. What is being asked is not pour vitriol on them just because they were born in the brahmin caste! That is what is constantly happening in this forum.

Hundred pages of hatred followed by one sagely advice does not cut it!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

However, caste affiliation is still a factor, and for that EVR will be weeping in his grave. This is not a matter to point fingers at anyone, but to see how each caste can find a way to shed its own caste identity and evolve. Brahmins must lead the way. Sitting on the top of the caste hierarchy and refusing to reject their own supremacy, Brahmins can't point fingers at the atrocities committed by other caste Hindus. Come clean first, then take to task the other castes. Until then, only parochially minded people with an ax to grind will try to pit one case against another.

EVR wanted to usurp political power and give it to "upper" caste hindus. He wanted to drive away brahmins from dravida nadu. He suceeded in both. He will be very happy in his grave.

Hardly anyone will disagree today that "Brahmin" is just a caste identity but I don't agree that brahmins sit at the top of the caste hierarchy. They don't. In fact, they are at the receiving end of discrimination with the "upper" NB castes the major beneficiaries. The brahmins are discriminated against in every secular sphere. They do not dominate religious sphere (temple activities) either as Nara claims. The previous DMK govt explicitly ruled that a brahmin cannot sit in any temple administrative position controlled by HR&CE. If the "progressive" people want caste or other identities to go away, they should work towards eliminating discrimination based on such identities. Alas, they are the strongest supporters of such discrimination. As long as benefits are tied to identity, people won't give it up. Therefore, it will only remain a pipe dream.

If brahmins discriminate, condemn it! But do not blame them for the caste atrocities perpetrated by non-brahmins. That is unfair, unjust notwithstanding the origins of the complainant.

 

[tbs]

Dear tbs, I am so moved by your comment, you made my day, thank you, I appreciate it more than you will know....

Cheers!

dear sir,
Thanks sir....life goes on.....this is ur bad experiences of poorvashrama....so u want change in ur aparasrama...

 

[renuka]

As a neutral observer in this thread..I have a sincere doubt.

This thread seems like a Jallikattu contest where certain quarters are trying the tame the Bull of Casteism or in this case "Brahminism"

Ok my doubt is just say if all Brahmins stop identifying themselves with caste tag superiority etc what is the guarantee that all other Non Brahmin Upper Castes also would follow suit?

Are we taming the wrong Bull here or are we leaving out other Bulls too?

Just a sincere doubt.

 

[KRS]

Dear brother Nara Ji,

How one separates oneself from one's ideas? This is impossible.

When one says 'Brahminism is practiced by Brahmins as a blanket statement, then one who identifies himself as a Tam Bra would take it as an affront to him. It is natural then to defend oneself.

Demonizing a whole group brings first person addressing of issues, because it just got personal.

Sorry.

Regards,
KRS

Look how many "you" you have used followed by your opinion of what I am or what I have done, or what I should do.

• you tend to answer only the questions you choose to answer
  
• You never said that he was hateful - your attitude
• you seem to feel that I am attacking you!
• but please, do not ridicule others opinions, formed by facts as something less than your own.
• you pass them off as something based on facts.
• You can only cite examples of a few of them being advisers of some kingdoms
• You don't seem to accept the fact
• You don't seem to accept any of this.
• you keep on pushing the idea of some 'Brahminism' that you yourself can not define.
• I don't understand, as bright as you are, how you miss seeing this.
• if you want to change someone, you start with love
• You can say all this and feel good that you have slain the ghosts of evil and feel justified,
• You will only be saying that these guys are all you are saying,
• you understand a community through your own colored glasses. What good does it do?
  
• If you want a whole community to change,

I am sure you will have your justifications, that is why I have been trying hard to stick to topic.

I also wish you had not done this. Now you are taking it to a place where even more people are going to get riled up. Let it be known that I did not do this.

Given the Brahmins never tire of citing what true Brahmins are made of -- recently Yudishtra Nahusha dialog was cited -- please tell me which of the things you have cited is false.

If you wish we can take one at a time. But I wish we rather not because truth is bitter, and may cause a lot of sentiments to be badly bruised. Not a very pleasant thought.

Thank you ...

 

[KRS]

Dear brother Nara ji,

Sorry you feel that I am 'on your case.'

Yes, Sri Ravi commented on your post to Sri Raghy. He should have addressed you along with Sri Raghy. But that omission is not such a big offense that you needed to take umbrage.

When I said you both were amicable in your discussions, I was saying that you both did not have any rancorous discussions. You blew it off saying that it was a 'myth'. This did not make sense to me. So I provided an explanation.

Sorry if it felt like I was 'on your case'. My aim was to make sure that we don't unfairly criticize someone, who, as I have said, never raised his voice in this Forum. That's all.

Regards,
KRS

What is the matter with you brother, why are you on my case?

I did not bring up Ravi's name into this at all, you did, in relation to me. All I wanted to do was to state that I was not exactly having an amicable conversation with Ravi, and you have to challenge me on this also?

If people find my "speculation" about Brahminism offensive, please address them to me. But then, even if they were "speculations", they were "speculations" about an ideology I despise. I did not speculate about any member here, did I? I did not "speculate" that Ravi was probably motivated by "braminical hypocrisy", due to his "theistic ideology", blah, blah.

Now, take a look at this http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/8534-self-respect-movement-14.html#post131526. Why? Why must Ravi speculate about what I mean, or not mean, and why? Why must he speculate why I, in Ravi's words, "support" EVR, that too to Raghy, not addressing me?

In the past you have warned members from butting in, I hope you remember. But, now Ravi butting in and commenting about me to Raghy is just fine, but if I say that is one of the reasons why I think we are not having an amicable conversation, that is not acceptable? You can't take my word for it? I have to prove to you whether I am having an amicable conversation or not?

Also, in the past Ravi has made comments as to why we atheists do whatever we do, etc. There have been other such comments too. This is a pattern and it offends me, but not by much, especially compared to the nasty stuff others dish out. This is why I mentioned "he is not one of those worst offenders" and you picked that up and turned it around against me as if I was offering a "back-handed complement".

So, I ask you again, what is the matter with you brother, why are you on my case?

Let me repeat, I did not bring Ravi back into the discussion. You did. I do not have any major problems with him, that is not to say I have no problem at all. It is not a big deal to me.

Please, leave me alone, let us talk about what EVR has written, why they are, are not true, and why that makes him a monster.

Cheers!

p.s.
Ravi, I saw your long post, I have not read it yet, believe me, I don't have any major problem with you. If Shri KRS had not linked you and me with the "amicable" comment, I won't be saying anything at all about you. My only request to you is, please direct your comments about me, to me. Also, please do not speculate about what motivates me, with somebody else. I think these are not unreasonable requests.

 

[KRS]

Dear brother Nara Ji,

You said:

However, caste affiliation is still a factor, and for that EVR will be weeping in his grave.

Sorry brother. Yes, he is probably crying loud. That he could not eradicate the TN Brahmins from TN, and moreover seeing them doing well. They don't need to be 'beggars' anymore. And, given time, they will change as they are doing today.

Just leave them alone, they will do just fine.

Regards,
KRS

 

[C RAVI]

1) Those who make excuses by pointing fingers at other castes are the real enemies of progress and the welfare of common Brahmins.

2) The moment a Brahmin frees himself/herself of the burden of caste identity he/she will be ready to embrace humanity just for its own sake. The burden of a Brahmin will be no more critical to him/her than the burden of age old oppression of the Brahminical system weighing the poor Dalit down.

Cheers!

Shri Nara,

Correlate my views below with the listing sequence, above.

1) As you use to say, critical thinking is what the most warranted to see how community's interest can be protected and welfare of common brahmins can be ensured. The present scenario for the past few decades has no relevancy with what was identified as brahmin supremacy, brahmin domination and brahmin discrimination against dalits. All the atrocities and discrimination that happened for the past few decades and still happening are all against dalits and minority brahmins.

Here Brahmin community has no clutch to expect and initiate social reformation, freeing society from the caste discrimination in TN, with a strategy to change the brahmins first to derive the expected results in total. The need of the hour for brahmins is to retain their original identity, that can never be ruled out for any caste people, while ensuring social and political justice, being one among the Tamilians.

The plight of the brahmin community, that I believe you would not reject as unjustifiable sweeping statement, is nothing but the plight of the aliens who all would just be spared to make their own survival in TN, if possible, if feasible, unmindful of injustice against them.

Having such a scenario, those are the enemies of progress and the welfare of common brahmins as well of any community people in TN, who fail to accept the realities of the discriminating movement of the past, the realities of the present AND fail to stand by their own brahmin community folks and fight against discrimination and injustice, making the things clear.

Pointing out -

A) How caste identity by birth would remain in India/TN for at least another 25 years or more and how the community should have justice for them till such time.

B) How other caste community would retain their caste identity and indulge in discrimination for their personal interest for which filthy politics would ever be hand in glow.

C) How wrong are the other upper caste communities that are indulging in exploiting, humiliating, ransacking and keep snubbing the dalits, till date and how Brahmin community can raise voice against this atrocities and bring about social justice to every community that all are willingly or unwillingly wrapped with the caste identity only by their birth.

D) How Brahmin community should be united among themselves, similar to other caste community and work towards betterment of their own community and that of other community in TN. And by that, bring about true and honest revolution in TN that would ensure progress and welfare of every common man, irrespective of their caste.



2) This is ridiculous to expect. There is nothing exclusive for a common Brahmin to make him/her inhuman, for which he/she need to step out and say "I am not a brahmin & I have no affiliation to Brahmin community" so that. that would prove his sense of humanity and shape him to embrace humanity flawlessly.

Every common man in TN is bound to have caste identity by birth and every such common man are having no sense of burden and guilt for what their men did in the past. In fact, common men of upper caste NB's may have a sense of guilt, finding their men weighing the power Dalit down and harassing them as much as possible. This is the ground reality for the past few decades, at present and in future until true revolution takes place, that would help society to live and let live each other with out any discrimination and injustice.

If at all there is any burden on the present time folks of TN, with their sense of guilt, weighing the poor Dalits down in this present globalized world, is all on upper caste NB's who are playing havoc with the lives of Dalits. Such burden are not on Brahmin community/common Brahmins.

Common folks of Brahmin community are out of the picture from any social and political happening in TN. They are alone as a community and alone as an individual of their own community, making their own hard way to survive.

Shri Nara,

IMHO, your views at present, that you find as the most imperative to be considered and actioned upon are all in fact irrelevant for the present time. It may be expected to have its relevancy only for the past. It would be nice if you could figure out the present realities and stand by humanity for the betterment of Dalits and Brahmins.

Dalits are united and struggling hard or self respect, self dignity, indiscrimination and justice. Where as Brahmins are scattered, minding their own hard business, making the best of their possible rational brains.

 

[KRS]

Dear brother C. Ravi Ji,

I can only hope, our brother Nara Ji understands and grasp what a person like you is saying.

Ideology does not care for individuals. It is a brute force of power and when it comes to 'social engineering' - watch out.

In the name of 'social justice' it always produces injustice. Because, it does not care about either - it only cares about power.

It is a sad situation.

Regards,
KRS

 

[prasad1]

By raising voice against the imaginary Tamil Brahmin community, and flogging this community "that evil Person" only created a self serving movement. It was nothing more than a vote bank ploy for his own purpose. Here we are forced to waste time on the defense of Tamil Brahmin community purely for some mysterious reason. I wonder why?

 

[suraju06]

Renuka,

As a neutral observer in this thread..I have a sincere doubt.
This thread seems like a Jallikattu contest where certain quarters are trying the tame the Bull of Casteism or in this case "Brahminism"
Ok my doubt is just say if all Brahmins stop identifying themselves with caste tag superiority etc what is the guarantee that all other Non Brahmin Upper Castes also would follow suit?
Are we taming the wrong Bull here or are we leaving out other Bulls too?
Just a sincere doubt.

This is exactly what was asked repeatedly in various threads of similar nature in this forum in the following words:

"Is there any assurance that there will be no caste discrimination/casteism in the country if all brahmins were converted into donkies overnight by the waving of a magic wand?"

Inga vanthu neraththa veenaakkaama Poi pulla kuttingala padikkavachchu tution solli kudukka pongamma.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri Raghy Ji,

You said in # 136 above to Sri Ravi Ji:


With all due respect, and we discussed a similar thing once before, please do not get in to the job of Moderation, as this comment clearly gets in to that category. If a member talks ill of another member on personal terms, as you know, it is against the Forum rules and will be moderated.

Besides, here Sri Ravi is commenting only on brother Nara Ji's way of handling different ideas, and as you can see both Sri Ravi Ji and brother Nara Ji are entirely capable of discussing things on an amicable manner.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri.KRS, Greetings.

I was not getting into the job of moderation. When someone says this

Shri Nara would admire and support any one IF that person could be in a position to administer his/her ideologies and initiatives to vanquish Brahmin community by ANY ways and means,

, all I said to this charge was

Sri.Nara is not a public figure. He is a fellow member in our forum. Commenting something in compliment of our fellow member is welcome; but negative comments are not

. I was trying to be as polite as possible.

That was not a comment on Sri.Nara's way of handling different ideas. Yourself and the rest of the whole forum may very well agree with such a comment; you may call that as 'discussion on an amicable manner'; I will not. Even for that kind of a comment, I made a humble suggestion only. After that suggestion , when I was accused of accusing a fellow member, I wrote this in #148

That's why I made the suggestion. I can only suggest; one may write what he / she wishes to write anyway.

, meaning, I can't do anything further.

I don't consider what I wrote as interfering with moderation. I know very well Sri.Nara had an admiration for E V Ramasamy Naicker even when he was a staunch Sri Vaishnava. If one reads his messages, one can very easily put together his life. So, he did not start admiring E V Ramasamy Naicker for his words against Brahmin Community.

So, if unfounded charges gets leveled against any member and if I happen to read such a message, I shall make a suggestion in favour of the affected member in the future too. I am prepared to face the consequences.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy,

It is being repeatedly told here that arguments against ideas are acceptable but not against an individual.

But the problem is arguments such as "Most brahmins I know are hypocrites", "The weekend well-to-do brahmins try to too fool poor brahmins" are outright casteist!

To come to this forum where one knows many brahmins congregate and tell them to their face that they are hypocrites is not any different from an attack on an individual!

It is just manipulation of rules to suit one's argument.

Dear Sri. Kalabhairavan, Greetings.

There was a time I used to discuss/debate/argue on daily basis on these subjects... in favour of Brahmin community. Nowadays either I don't find the time or the computer or both. ( cooking takes up a lot of time. I am not multi-tasking as women!). Anyway, when a community collectively gets criticised, then I used to put forth the improvement brought by that said community etc. It's quite hard to say; each message drew different response from me, as one may expect. But, I know what you mean anyway. It is very hard not to get it under the skin.

Debates and arguments are always manupulative anyway. Sorry, I could not write a convincing reply to you.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri Ravi -

While I have not followed this thread - because frankly the topic is boring to me - I resonate with your statement above. I think post #136 offering under the guise of a gratuitous 'suggestion' was actually an accusation and done in poor taste. I would ignore such posts and not dignify with a response any more.

tks,

Although you addressed this post to Ravi, post #136 was written by me. So I am writing this message. Read post #148. I clearly said I did not accuse ravi of anything. I don't lie. If I wanted to accuse, I would not have minced words; would have levelled my accusations. None of my posts are written under 'guise'. Since we have not discussed much, you may not know. Just thought of letting you know.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Raju, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #138. About your point #1 about Hitler, I agree. I mentioned that in post #136.

It is against the general trend in Tamilnadu to hoist on a pedestal and worship anything which is grossly different from what is existing. Whether it is good or bad is not considered material. It is enough if it is different. This trend has a powerful constituency among intellectuals perhaps because intellectuals are constantly on the look out for something novel and different from what is already known.

Sri, Raju, I don't think that is the reason here. Something much more than that. I could not quite put my finger on it either.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Respectable members, Greetings.

I don't understand why there should be so much reaction when someone as much mention E V Ramasamy Naicker's name in awe? I also grew up in a Brahmin home; but I never had that kind of feeling.

Brahmin community survived for milleniums. But to think just one person can bring this kind of reaction is unbelievable, to say the least.

I request the members to consider these - Reservation system was not brought by E V Ramasamy Naicker. Most Brahmins moved out of Tamil Nadu for better prospects, not because they feared E V Ramasamy Naicker or his followers. Pious followers of Hinduism are not only found in the Brahmin community; also in the non-Brahmin community too. so, when E V Ramasamy Naicker dececrated idols, it hurt those non-brahmin's too.

Progress of regress of a community is not governed by anyone outside the community; it is only possible by the community members from the inside, working amoung themselves.

Cheers!