Soliciting Opinions on an Earlier Post

[OKO]

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I was going through another forum and found an interesting post, which, unfortunately, no one had replied to, and I would like to know the opinion of other members within the group. (OG thread: https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/threads/reforms-in-hindu-caste-system-by-j-ajithkumar.7480/)

Post by Ms. Yamaka:
"Dear Raju & Co:

Unfortunately, India was under the occupation of invaders since 900 AD and under Colonial power for nearly 300 years... English people as our Masters did so many bad things AND some good things - one among them is writing the Indian History (mostly as non-partisan/non-biased academics) and have done fairly a good job...

Now you people are hell bent on re-writing the known history of Caste Hierarchy in India...you have a political party - the BJP - bankrolling such efforts.

Now, please write "Your History" here by touching the following milestones!

1. Who started the Hinduism as we know it today? When was it started?

2. Is there a Caste Hierarchy in India? If so, how did it get started? How is it connected to Hinduism?

3. Who were the Architects of this Pyramidal Caste Hierarchy?

4. Did Brahmins and "Kings & Warriors" (Kshatrias?) collude to plunder rest of the people in the Caste Hierarchy?

5. Did Brahmins work with the British to codify the caste system in the Indian Legal System?
I have given my answers earlier... now you articulate yours cogently (with PROOF) and spread the blame on OTHERS!
Let's see whether it makes any sense to reasonable people here!!

Good luck.

"

P. S. This is not to incite communal issues but just a survey of people's thoughts in 2025. I have yet to share my perspective as I do not wish to make anyone prejudiced because of my thoughts and share their views openly (regardless of what side they lean towards).

 

[prasad1]

Delete

 

[prasad1]

I started the thread quoted by OP.

• Thread starterprasad1
• Start dateOct 20, 2011

Most of the members of that time have retired from this group.


The history of Hinduism and the caste system is incredibly complex, shaped by many factors over thousands of years. The caste hierarchy, which started as a relatively flexible division of labor, became more rigid over time, especially after the influence of colonialism, which further entrenched it in legal and social systems.


Regarding blame, it’s important to note that while Brahmins and kings played a role in perpetuating the caste system, the historical evolution of these structures involves many different forces and cannot be solely attributed to one group. British colonial rule, in particular, played a significant role in formalizing and reinforcing the caste system in the modern legal and administrative systems.


The historical narrative is not just about finding blame but understanding how different forces—both internal and external—shaped the India we know today.

 

[OKO]

I started the thread quoted by OP.

• Thread starterprasad1
• Start dateOct 20, 2011

Most of the members of that time have retired from this group.


The history of Hinduism and the caste system is incredibly complex, shaped by many factors over thousands of years. The caste hierarchy, which started as a relatively flexible division of labor, became more rigid over time, especially after the influence of colonialism, which further entrenched it in legal and social systems.


Regarding blame, it’s important to note that while Brahmins and kings played a role in perpetuating the caste system, the historical evolution of these structures involves many different forces and cannot be solely attributed to one group. British colonial rule, in particular, played a significant role in formalizing and reinforcing the caste system in the modern legal and administrative systems.


The historical narrative is not just about finding blame but understanding how different forces—both internal and external—shaped the India we know today.

The thread is not about the primary thread, which was regarding something else, but what people believe at present. I don't believe I had requested the initial posters to respond, but rather, I just wanted those particular questions to be answered, as that person had highlighted many of the questions asked by people. That is why it has been started as a separate thread.

I understand that you seem to have closure regarding this topic and maybe this thread to vitiates that. However, as mentioned earlier, this is not for the early members and is just something I wanted to find out. Maybe I should not have cited the post, as that seems to have a bad effect on you for some reason.

 

[a-TB]

I was going through another forum and found an interesting post, which, unfortunately, no one had replied to, and I would like to know the opinion of other members within the group. (OG thread: https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/threads/reforms-in-hindu-caste-system-by-j-ajithkumar.7480/)

Post by Ms. Yamaka:
"Dear Raju & Co:

Unfortunately, India was under the occupation of invaders since 900 AD and under Colonial power for nearly 300 years... English people as our Masters did so many bad things AND some good things - one among them is writing the Indian History (mostly as non-partisan/non-biased academics) and have done fairly a good job...

Now you people are hell bent on re-writing the known history of Caste Hierarchy in India...you have a political party - the BJP - bankrolling such efforts.

Now, please write "Your History" here by touching the following milestones!

1. Who started the Hinduism as we know it today? When was it started?

2. Is there a Caste Hierarchy in India? If so, how did it get started? How is it connected to Hinduism?

3. Who were the Architects of this Pyramidal Caste Hierarchy?

4. Did Brahmins and "Kings & Warriors" (Kshatrias?) collude to plunder rest of the people in the Caste Hierarchy?

5. Did Brahmins work with the British to codify the caste system in the Indian Legal System?
I have given my answers earlier... now you articulate yours cogently (with PROOF) and spread the blame on OTHERS!
Let's see whether it makes any sense to reasonable people here!!

Good luck.

"

P. S. This is not to incite communal issues but just a survey of people's thoughts in 2025. I have yet to share my perspective as I do not wish to make anyone prejudiced because of my thoughts and share their views openly (regardless of what side they lean towards).

In my view these are all wrong questions. Let me give an example as to what I mean by wrong questions.

if someone asks "Say Yes or no first and then explain, have you stopped taking pills for stupidity" what can be a response ?

 

[OKO]

In my view these are all wrong questions. Let me give an example as to what I mean by wrong questions.

if someone asks "Say Yes or no first and then explain, have you stopped taking pills for stupidity" what can be a response ?

yes maybe but I feel that question 4 and 5 are quite relevant. So let's refine it why don't we?

1. Does the "Hindu" identity or religion by itself perpetuate caste and caste-based discrimination?
2. Many claim the caste structure to be originally horizontal, yet, caste today has been seen in a pyramidical structure- How did this come into being?
3. Did colonialism create a solidified caste structure?
4. Did brahmins as a community by large help with the stratification of the caste and designations for personal gain or is that a myth?

This is how I had understood the questions that the initial poster had tried to bring forth. I now realise that I should have given context and worded the question in such a way as to not cause conflict as the initial post does have some biases. Hopefully this helps clarify my intention and point out what I wanted to discuss.

 

[renuka]

Let me try sharing my opinion.

1.Who started the Hinduism as we know it today? When was it started?

Answer : No one started present day concept of Hinduism.
In the past everyone followed their prefered school of thought mostly related to their cultural practice.
One might follow shaivaism, vaishnavaism, shaktaism, yoga system, local deities, ancestor worship etc.
All these various practices were like apps on the Android/ i-phone of India..but these days we call the Android/i - phone as Hinduism.

2. Is there a Caste Hierarchy in India? If so, how did it get started? How is it connected to Hinduism?

Answer: Yes, there is a caste heirarchy.It exists when one has only a superficial understanding of the Varna-Ashrama system which leads to pride and prejudice.

At the same time, there is NO caste heirarchy if one realizes its a Guna based division which is the backbone for both society and self.
Within the Supreme person at a Macrocosmic level these system exist as part of the Guna division..hence the Brahmanatva from the mouth , Kshatriyatva from arms, Vaishyatva from the thighs and Sudratva from the feet.

At the microcosmic level within us itself this division exist depending on which mode we are functioning in at a given time.



3. Who were the Architects of this Pyramidal Caste Hierarchy?

Answer: No idea though its mentioned in the Purusha Shukta and The Bhagavad Gita and both dont mention it as a hierarchy.

Eg in Purusha Sukta it mentions
From His mouth came forth Brahmins..and of His arms were Kshatriyas, Vaishyas from His thighs and Sudras from His feet.

Right away we humans interpreted this as a hierarchy/discrimination.
But surprisingly we didnt choose to asign a heirarchy to the other portions of the Sukta.

For eg..
of His mind, the moon is born
of His eyes the Sun,
of His mouth, Indra,Vayu..
space from His umblicus,
the sky from his head..from His feet the earth, His ears the Quarters..

Here no one decided to say who is superior? The moon or the sun or the wind or earth or Indra or Vayu.

Reason? Because we cant derive pride for ourselves by saying the moon is superior to the sun or the elements have their hierarchy.

We can only feel a sense of High and Low if we can identify with it.
So we humans decided to ONLY asign a hierarchy to the
"From His mouth came forth Brahmins..and of His arms were Kshatriyas, Vaishyas from His thighs and Sudras from His feet"





4. Did Brahmins and "Kings & Warriors" (Kshatrias?) collude to plunder rest of the people in the Caste Hierarchy?

Answer : No kingdom can last long if Adharma prevails.
So answer is No if the King is Dharmic.

5. Did Brahmins work with the British to codify the caste system in the Indian Legal System.

Answer : I have no knowledge on this.
So my answer is I dont know.