Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple Treasure.

[Yamaka]

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Lord Padmanabhaswamy should ward off the evil force called politicians from the treasure that belongs to His temple.

If all the Gods of India have any power at all, there wouldn't be any poverty, any crime, any evil force, IMO!

The question of the moment is "Where are those active Gods, if at all they exist?"

Poet Laureate Kannadasan asked in his lyrics "Kadavul yaen kallaanaan?"

Peace.

 

[srinikarthik]

Now Sattelite watch over the temple.

Satellite to watch over temple | The Asian Age

 

[Yamaka]

Actually, that is the opposite. In a democracy, people (and trusts) have a right to own property. In a Communist state, all property belong to the government. Property Ownership has been the fundamental difference between these two political ideologies, not even the right to vote (which exists in both).

If government is allowed to dip its hand in the honey jar once, it is going to loot all the temples in the country, one after another. Sadly, it will not touch the fat cows in other religions.

In a liberal democracy, the job of the elected gov't is to pay for the Public Goods (Military, police, courts, infrastructure, public education, public health and myriad other functions of the Gov't) FOR the people, by collecting direct and indirect taxes of all sorts.

In general, a good portion of what's collected in Temples, Mosques and Churches are Black Money and Stolen Money, because there is no administrative sieve to separate offerings from ordinary law abiding people from the anti-socials.
Plus, Endowment Laws are already there at the State and Central level.

Just follow the law - Yes, Gov't is the owner or at least part-owner of these assets. No, we don't live under Communism.

Peace.

 

[DrBarani]

In general, a good portion of what's collected in Temples, Mosques and Churches are Black Money and Stolen Money,

This is utter rubbish and I already ignored such a brash statement earlier. I do not want to dignify this conspiracy theory further.

Plus, Endowment Laws are already there at the State and Central level.

Endowment Laws PROTECT private property. You must be confused with Eminent Domain Law. That law cannot be enforced with some serious court intervention.

Sorry, we are miles apart in so many basic issues, I don't think we should be involved in any rational debate. Thank you.

 

[Yamaka]

Thieves and Black Marketeers may do anything in the name of deities. They may even say that the deity is a partner in their business and may offer the partners’ share from profit in the hundi kept in the temple. But that does not mean the deity has any role in the black marketing or other crimes. It is like a thief stealing something from my house and saying Yamaka is my partner and I have done a pooja in his name spending part of the money!



You mean-like the Bofors case? I don’t think so. This time it is Supreme Court that is the prime mover behind this case and there lies the hope of the common man in India. You may, for all your grief and disappointment, see all those in the Tihar Jail staying put there for quite a few years. You may even have to witness with consternation the mentors also behind bars thus giving true nenjukku neethi to the common tamil. This is not the 5ps pesticides case and we do not have the large hearted MGR in the power either. Let us wait and see.



I am not sure whether Arun Shourie said that. If he has said that he has not understood the nature of the spectrum we are speaking about. I am clear as I understand what it is all about. It appears you are either not aware of the matter or are trying to obfuscate. In any case I give here briefly what it is all about(though this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread):
Every time you make a call through your cellphone your service provider uses a certain radio frequency bandwidth to provide you the communication-whether it is just voice service, SMS service or downloads from Internet. Each service provider –like Tata, Reliance, Aitel, BSNL,Vodafone etc –are allotted a certain frequency range to use so that there is no clash between service providers lest the signals will end up as static and gibberish.All these frequency ranges form what is called a band and there are different bands in which different services operate. Army, Navy and Air Force operate in an exclusive bandwidth while civilians operate in a different bandwidth. The Government in every country regulates and allots the available limited bandwidth for radio frequency among various users and hence this is considered a scarce national asset. The Government collects a fee from the various operators for using the bandwidth. This bandwidth is also called spectrum. In India as in many other countries the Govt allots the bandwidth to users for a price depending on the demand. Because it is not a tangible asset it has no intrinsic physical value of constituent components/material etc and its value depends only on the demand for it. India which is on the threshold of prosperity has a huge demand for the spectrum and this has been proved by the phenomenal growth in the cellphone usage. The Government , as the owner of the spectrum, has the right and duty to put the assets to good use and get funds from it to invest in its effort to improve the country’s economic growth. The method adopted was either FCFS (First come first served) or an open auction depending on the size of the bandwidth available for sale and on the likely value it will fetch in the market on the date of sale. The value at call will depend mainly on the likely profit that an operator can earn over the period of operation that is offered as the package. It is here that all the fudgings have taken place. If the former method was adopted, a floor price would have been fixed by an experts committee of the Govt. in advance (taking into account the potential etc) and offers above that would have been,prima facie, eligible for consideration. In the second method it would have been an open house bidding and the highest bidder above the floor price would get the first preference etc., In the case of the spectrum sale in India this simple transparent process has been tweaked many times to suit various “conveniences” and the complaint is that the spectrum has been sold at a price much below its true worth. To determine the true worth the value at which a successfull participant(bidder) Co. sold its share holdings to another player has been taken as indicative.As this participant had not done any business at all after incorporation other than winning the spectrum the assumption that the price represents the true value and potential of the spectrum alloted appears to be reasonable and well supported by logic. On this basis the estimated loss suffered by the exchequer has been worked out by CAG. Next comes the question of the reasons for incurring such an estimated loss. That too inspite of warnings and dissenting notes by Babus in the Govt. The likely kickback and who received it are all being investigated now.

So your as well as Shourie’s(if he has indeed said what you have attributed to him) ignorance will not change one bit what actually has happened. Let us hope the Court brings out the truth and punishes not only the players but also their mentors.



Dear Yamaka, I am not a politician and I have no enmity towards anyone. Rather I am apolitical. I am an ordinary Tamil/Indian and I love my country.The estimated loss suffered by the country is not a conjecture/innuendo/speculation as you claim. It is the amount which would have been added to the exchequer if the process of allotment had been perfect and flawless. After reading what I have given above in detail if you still do not change your claim that this is all innuendo I would like to know your reasons.



If ‘reluctantly working’ has resulted in seeing so many stars behind the bars what would have happened if it had seriously worked?

Cheers.

Dear Raju:

A very long response! Please start a new Thread on this topic... I will respond to all your points...

Please recall what happened to CM Hon'able J Jaya about ten years ago.. when she was CONVICTED by a Special Court... and then what Supreme Court did.... jog your memory till then..

Peace.

 

[srinikarthik]

I Tried to dig deep on as to what will happen to the tresure as per the law. stumbled upon the ASI(Archealogical Survey of India) site and managed to get the PDF of the Indian Treasure Trove Act, 1878 . I'm attaching the same for everyone's reference.

http://asi.nic.in/pdf_data/9.pdf

 

[Yamaka]

This is utter rubbish and I already ignored such a brash statement earlier. I do not want to dignify this conspiracy theory further.



Endowment Laws PROTECT private property. You must be confused with Eminent Domain Law. That law cannot be enforced with some serious court intervention.

Sorry, we are miles apart in so many basic issues, I don't think we should be involved in any rational debate. Thank you.

Please talk to devotees and/or administrators of Temples where "collection" is very poor: Ask them "Why is it some other Temple gets so much "collection and wealth"?

They will smile, and say "Well, everyone knows what's happening... lots of Black Money and other stuffs go there".

This is not a conspiracy... this is being talked about openly in so many places!

You choose to ignore it, that's fine with me!

 

[suraju06]

Dear Raju:

A very long response! Please start a new Thread on this topic... I will respond to all your points...

Please recall what happened to CM Hon'able J Jaya about ten years ago.. when she was CONVICTED by a Special Court... and then what Supreme Court did.... jog your memory till then..

Peace.

Dear Yamaka,

That is typical of another 'great' leader of Tamils and not of Yamaka!! When newsmen raise a question about what is happening in his regime this leader(great as he is) would go at a tangent and ask nonchalantly as to what was happening in the regime of JJ--as if the newsman is himself an avatar of JJ standing before him. Coming to your request to me to jog or bog my memory, please understand that I have no sympathy for JJ or KK or for that matter any J or K. I dont care as to what JJ did last time when she was in power as I do not expect any of the present day tamil politicians to do anything good to the community. I am concerned with what is happening now and here. I think now the position is clear to you and hope you will stop going at a tangent every time I have something to say about your nenjukku neethi hero.

The response had to be long because of the attempt to obfuscate or trivialise the findings of the experts in CAG(they are not the kanakkapillais sitting in the Levathevi/kanthuvatti business firm of a Madurai usurious money lender) who estimated the likely loss that was suffered by Indian exchequer. Well, I am not interested in starting a new thread about this topic as this has been already discussed adequately and my area of prime interest is also not politics. Thank you.

Cheers

 

[happyhindu]

The senior Princess also wants the tresure to be kept at a museum like the crown jewls

Senior Princess Rukmani Varma of the Royal family of Travancore insists treasure must stay within temple. | The Asian Age

Since this is coming from the family itself, i feel it should be acceptable to everyone. The way they have conducted themselves wrt the wealth is exemplary. Wish she had elaborated more on the valuts leading to the sea.

Rumors are that if some vaults are opened it will lead to catatrophe. Infact i even read one blog entry where it was said that the doors of these vaults have the image of a snake on it, some say it is protected by tantra, and what not (like chandramukhi style perhaps ). Catastrophe means sea water will come in if the vaults are opened?

Wonder why this wealth inventory is happening now...wonder whats in the fate of the future....Lets wait for 2012 and see....

 

[srinikarthik]

The latest in the news. SC orders against opening of the vaults.

Manorama Online | SC bars opening of Padmanabhaswamy temple vaults=@@@

 

[ShivKC]

Venugopal said the head of the Travancore family, Marthanda Varma, believed the stunning treasure "should be used judiciously for religious and social purposes" such as building hospitals and schools.

"The artifacts may be kept in a museum independent of the temple," he added.


an unexpected one! to be appreciated., in times where mysore maharaja is still fighting in Supreme court to get hold of his ancestoral fortunes & few unknow maharajas knocking dist collectorates ,for indra gandhi- pensions, this is one is, indeed a good great gesture from uttaradams/sethulakshmi/chitirai's progeny !.. rejoice.

Use temple treasure for hospitals and schools: Royals - The Times of India


but im worried, if Ommen Chandy would stake a claim , that, all that charitable expense would be spend within the kerala border, defined by C.P.R. Iyer,.

 

[DrBarani]

Venugopal said the head of the Travancore family, Marthanda Varma, believed the stunning treasure "should be used judiciously for religious and social purposes" such as building hospitals and schools.

"The artifacts may be kept in a museum independent of the temple," he added.


an unexpected one! to be appreciated., in times where mysore maharaja is still fighting in Supreme court to get hold of his ancestoral fortunes & few unknow maharajas knocking dist collectorates ,for indra gandhi- pensions, this is one is, indeed a good great gesture from uttaradams/sethulakshmi/chitirai's progeny !.. rejoice.

Use temple treasure for hospitals and schools: Royals - The Times of India


but im worried, if Ommen Chandy would stake a claim , that, all that charitable expense would be spend within the kerala border, defined by C.P.R. Iyer,.

We have a Bharatha Ratna, Folks, time to nominate him at once and spread the word.

 

[ShivKC]

We have a Bharatha Ratna, Folks, time to nominate him at once and spread the word.

i would not recommend B.R award, for the simple reason, these treasures were not his ancestral blood, rather its made out of the VARI/vatti (tax money) of the travancore samasthanam, for he hasnt opposed it, and want to sail along the stream..

though i appreciate Uttaradam progenies magnanimity , with a strike of the Yeh/N button voting in parliament, all these things could be made 'National'. Unlike mysore kings, i think our man realized that now, and want to be in good books with future Indian history text books..

anyways, i appreciate his good guesture, without making any complicated controversy blending myths.

 

[happyhindu]

In 1750 the Travancore ruler Marthanda Varma donated the royal wealth to the Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple.

At that time, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh were not seperate countries. So some say they too have the right to stake a claim for the wealth.

However, such a line of argument is foolish. After the division of states, the state borders are binding upon everyone legally.

The wealth belongs to Kerala alone for now. If the erstwhile travancore royals and the trust wants to do something for other states, it will be out of their good will only.

Just because a large part of India paid taxes to Mughal rulers, does not mean, the Mughal descendents have to share stuff (that is, whatever wealth is remaining with them now) with the rest of the country.

Pujyashri Marthanda Varma's willingness to use part of the wealth for social benefit is highly praise worthy. Locking up all the wealth may not also be a good idea. Esp when we are reeling under poverty. Maybe better to diversify instead of putting all eggs in one basket (like a museum).

Commercial interests that can bring in revenue, generate cash flow and benefit people by creating employment is also a good idea. So that everyone, the erstwhile travancore royals, the state government as well as the aam aadmi benefits.

It wud all really depend on how many items are not artefacts of historical value, since no one wud like to see such rare items being withered away..

 

[Yamaka]

I wish the wealth is used to open

1. Schools for Handicapped
2. Hospitals for Poor in Rural Districts
3. Hostels for Orphans
4. Roads & Bridges to modernize Kerala
5. Hostels for Single Working Poor People etc etc.

Anything that helps the poor and destitute; but not for just Consumption but for Investments that will go for a long time.

Peace.

 

[Brahmanyan]

The "treasure" should be used for the purpose for which it was given by the devotees. Otherwise, when it befalls in the hands of Politicians we know what will happen to it. The present day media is full of news about them. Again, let us not forget that such suggestions for using wealth of Religious places will open flood gates of similar suggestions in respect of all religious places of worship.

While browsing the internet I stepped into the following Blog, which may be of interest to read:
Song of the waves - Parayil A. Tharakan Blog

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[DrBarani]

The "treasure" should be used for the purpose for which it was given by the devotees. Otherwise, when it befalls in the hands of Politicians we know what will happen to it. The present day media is full of news about them. Again, let us not forget that such suggestions for using wealth of Religious places will open flood gates of similar suggestions in respect of all religious places of worship.

While browsing the internet I stepped into the following Blog, which may be of interest to read:
Song of the waves - Parayil A. Tharakan Blog

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Yes, yes and and a million times Yes! Calls for spending out the temple property utterly ignore the fact that Government is RICH (right now $320 billion foreign reserves), and it wastes billions more on useless and free stuff. Principles cannot be altered based on the Treasure worth! What if the Treasure was worth just Rs.20 lakhs? Would these "spend it now" crowd will be asking that to be spent on "goodies to people"?

If you want to spend this temple's property, I suggest that they first demand AUDITING of all other religious institutions and figure out how much they are worth. My friend here tells me a remote church in chennai owns some Rs.4,000 crores raw cash wondering which is the best way to invest it. How about starting there.... Hello!!!

 

[happyhindu]

Lets wait and watch.

Right now looks like the erstwhile travancore royals are also divided in opinion.

One paper says Shri Marthanda Varma wanted part of the wealth to be spent on hospitals, schools.

Another newspaper article by Shrimati Rukmini herself says her family wants the wealth to be put up in a museum.

Whatever they collectively decide, or what course they want to take, the final call is all theirs.

Definitely i don't think they will be interested in giving freebies to anyone (freebies really kill the spirit to strive, learn, grow...and should be assiduously avoided).

At best, they can help generate employment for their people -- either thru a museum or thru some projects.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

There are some glaring omissions in the reports.

1. Padmanabha Swami Temple was never a public temple. It was a temple of the Maharajah where the public were admitted for some time every day and during festivals. Before independence it was open to the public for hardly one or two hours every day. Even then the timings depended on the wishes of the royal family. The public could not enter the temple when the Maharajah or his family was present.

2. There was no Hundi in the temple. Offering from the public were not accepted.

3. The temple was considered a private property of H.H. Chitra Thirunal Bala Rama Varma Maharaja. This was stated in the agreement during the state's accession to India. This issue was discussed in detail in the High court judgement sanctioning taking over the temple.

4. The legal heir to H.H Chitra Thirunal Maharaja is his nephew. Utthiradam Thirunal Marthanada Varma is the brother of Chitra Thirunal Bala Rama Varma the last Maharaja. He is the head of the royal family but not the Maharaja.

The court case was filed by some devotees because of the purported statement and actions of Utthiradam Thirunal Marthnada Varma.

You can read the entire case here.

Uthradam Thirunal Marthanda ... vs Union Of India on 31 January, 2011

The last Maharaja H. H. Chitra Thirunal Balarma Varma lived upto his name of Padmanabha Dasa. He was a devout man who was totally dedicated to Lord Padmanabha. The entire privy purse amount that he received was given to the Padmanabha swami Temple Dewaswom for running the temple. He gave additional amounts as and when it was needed. He was a simple man and the people of Travancore revered him.

The treausre in the temple is a known fact. We all knew it. But no one ventured near it.

Even when the state of Travancore had almost become Bankrupt and could not pay the Tribute to the British, no one thought of the treasure. Even when the British threatened to take over the state, some of the Maharajas preferred to take their own lives than even think of touching the age old treasure.

It is a sad state when devotees had to approach the court for taking over the temple by the state.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The treasure in Padmanabhaswami temple belongs to the Deity. If people have right over it, it is the people of erstwhile Travancore state and not the state of Kerala. Part of Travancore is now in Tamil Nadu.

Comparing to Thirupathi is not correct. There the temple grew rich with public donations. But the wealth of the temple is not used even for maintaining other temples. Only Vaishnavite temples are helped. That too not much. Most of the money is in banks as deposits not being used to serve the lord or the people. They can afford to give a free Laddu to all the pilgrims. Instead they keep on raising the price and reducing the size. Laddu Mirasudars were better.

There was a spate of temple reconstruction during the British rule in Tamil Nadu. It is alleged that the communities and persons who did it took away valuable jewllery and precious stones form the temples.

Even today the looting is done by the erstwhile private managements who are the residual trustees. You read about it and blame the HRCE without understanding the power of the older management.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

It is not the Government of Kerala which wanted to take over the temple. The suit was filed by a group of Devotees.

Quotes from the judgement.

The stand taken by the Government before the Civil Court and before us is that Government has no role in the matter and like other private temples run in the State, Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple is also run by an individual with the help of Executive Officer and Advisory Board constituted by them. Government obviously has not answered the query raised by the court as to whether the present management has legal authority to run the Temple and if not, what is the step to be taken by the Government to arrange for management of the Temple. According to the Government, the Temple is fairly well run and there is no need for the Government to interfere in the matter. We do not think the approach of the Government is fair, reasonable or legal. We have concluded above that the provision in Chapter III of the TC Act was only to give effect to the provision in the Accession Agreement whereby the Ruler of

So much so, in the literal sense and by virtue of the operation of Articles 295 and 296 of the Constitution, the Temple vests in State Government through succession or escheat or atleast as the present Ruler of the State. Therefore, Government necessarily have to make arrangement for creation of authority, statutory or otherwise, to take over management and for running the Temple. In our view, the opinion of the State about private temples in the State, conveyed to us in court by the Government Pleader, itself is not going to advance any public interest. Ever so many private temples have assumed great importance and have accumulated wealth which is nothing but contribution from the devotees and public. Wherever public money is collected by temples and religious institutions, we feel Government has a duty to ensure that such public institutions are accountable to the devotees. We feel it is high time regulatory measures are made in the State to prevent plundering of the public money in the name of God and faith. Public money collected in trust for the Diety or for religious institutions, should never be allowed to be diverted for personal gains and if it is permitted, the same amounts to permission to carry on business in faith or in the name of God. The question is whether the Government should allow religion and faith to be made a business activity by private individuals or trusts. We are constrained to observe that the attitude of the Government in this matter is not helpful to the interest of the State or to the devotees or to the public at large. We have already noticed that besides being a Hindu Temple, where people ardently worship, the Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple is a building of great architectural value and it's treasures are worth-preserving, protected and exhibited for the public to view the same. The operation of Section 18(2) of the TC Act after the death of the last Ruler of Travancore should not lead to any orphanage for the temple as we have already found that neither the first petitioner in W.P.(C) No.4256/2010 nor any of his family members get any right in management or control of the Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple. So much so, Government being the successor to the assets and institutions of the erstwhile Princely State of Travancore, it is the duty of the Government to make arrangement in the same way once State-run temples were handed over to Devaswom Boards.

It is a well known fact that the Temple has immense treasures, some of which are centuries old and are highly valuable by virtue of it's antique value and it's price in terms of the value of precious metals like gold, silver and stones used in the making. Even though we directed the present management to produce the inventory prepared by the last Ruler, about which there is a mention in the book written by the previous Ruler's niece namely, Smt. Gouri Lakshmibhai, they refused to produce the same. Some registers produced in the Court were thoroughly incomplete and unreliable. In view of the public claim made by the last Ruler's brother who is presently managing the Temple that the treasures belong to the Royal Family of Travancore, the injunction granted by the Sub Court against opening any of the Kallaras (storage place in the Temple) and removal of any valuable item, should continue in force and we order so. However, the management is free to use such of the items which are required for the regular rituals and ceremonies in the Temple. In our view, there is no purpose in keeping the treasures of the temple acquired by it in the course of several centuries as a mystery and if all the storage rooms (Kallaras) are opened and the treasures are exhibited in a Museum to be set up in the Temple compound, the glory of the Temple and the State will get a boost and probably the Great Temple will become a major tourist attraction and income earner. The authority constituted by the Government should also verify the inventories previously prepared and check whether any item is lost from the custody of the Temple and if so, proceed to identify the persons who have taken away the same and take steps to restore it to the Temple.

Please go through the judgement which pulls up the state government.

This is a victory of the Devotees over vested and powerful interests which are supported by the State Government.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

A thorough inventory of the treasure should be taken and proper records should be maintained not in the government offices ( because of possibility of fire accidents consuming the sensitive and important records is common ) but by the Supreme court in order that the political thugs do not pilfer the temple treasure and start the blame game.

 

[srinikarthik]

The latest update on the temple. The petitioner gets eviction notice.

Kerala temple petitioner gets eviction notice - Hindustan Times

 

[srinikarthik]

I really like the way the royal family has conducted itself on the tresure. This is an example for all the other royal families who tend to lay the claims on the tresures.

Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple treasure belongs to deity: Royal family - The Times of India

 

[Brahmanyan]

Ramayyan Dalawai

I wish to give below a brief account on a Tamil Brahmin who served the famous Maharajah Sri Marthanda Varma - 1706-1758, as Dalawai.

Ramayyan Dalawai was a Sankethi Smartha Brahmin from Yervadi village Tirunelveli District. He joined a minor post in the Palace Management and rose to the height of Dalawai by his intelligence, hard work and dedication to the then Maharajah Marthanda Varma of Travancore. He served the Maharajah both as a Dalawai and Chief of staff and due to his efforts many battles were won and the State expanded considerably in area and wealth during his time. He was instrumental in introducing Revenue Records for the State. The renovation of Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple at Tiruvananthapuram and introduction of daily rituals at the Temple took place during the reign of Maharajah Marthanda Varma and Ramayyan Dalawai.

The sobriquet "God's own Country" is the result of gifting the entire Travancore (திருவிதாங்கூர்) to Sri Padmanabhaswamy by Sri Marthanda Varma. Maharajah Marthanda Varma surrendered his Kingdom together with all properties to Lord Sri Padhmanabhaswamy on January,3,1750 AD and ruled the kingdom as Sri Padmanabha dasa ,the servant of the Lord.

While Ramayyan Dhalai was carrying his Administration most successfully, he fell ill at Mavelikkaray in Dhanu 931 ME (1756 AD). The Maharajah felt exceedingly sorry and sent the Elia Rajah with an offer to honour and help the most trust worthy and upright minister in what ever way he desired. But even at his death bed Ramayyan Dhalawai declined to accept anything special from his Master and died shortly after. It was surprising that no private property of any considerable value was found in the late Dalawai's residence, though he has been closely attached to the Maharajah from his childhood and had held most responsible appointments from his Secretary to Dalawai for about twenty seven years. The loss of Ramayyan Dhalawai was so personal to the Maharajah, he fell into deep melancholy and within two years the Maharajah Marthanda Varma also fell ill and died on 27th Mithunam 933 ME (1758).

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.