• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple Treasure.

Status
Not open for further replies.
namaste.

Speaking of Taj Mahal, which was 'tejo mahAlaya', Stephen Knapp has photographed some locked rooms in the Mahal. Why don't the government take steps to open these rooms and see what is inside?

Dear Sri Saideo,

It is an interesting subject. If need be it could be taken under separate thread. Historian Purushottam Nagesh Oak and his "Institute for Rewriting Indian History" have brought out many books and papers on the subject. Though highly researched and documented, his writings have generated heated arguments among the Historians, due to the sensitivity of the subjects he had chosen.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Leftist are expert in generating wealth for themselves through in 'poverty alleviation programs'

Rightist are expert in generating wealth for themselves through in 'developmental programs'

Capitalist are expert in generating wealth for themselves both with leftist and rightist

Aristocrats and royals amass their wealth by displaying generosity by public philanthropy

Theist and atheist promote their cause by siphoning the wealth of Capitalists and Aristocrats as Social Service

In India everybody earns money and make wealth, including the God... and that keeps us united

But we are ever divided on deploying our wealth and so ....

...we invariably bury our wealth to be plundered as treasure by the next invader!

The next invader can be from China or America when the one now plundering it is multinational!!
 
Leftist are expert in generating wealth for themselves through in 'poverty alleviation programs'

Rightist are expert in generating wealth for themselves through in 'developmental programs'

Capitalist are expert in generating wealth for themselves both with leftist and rightist

Aristocrats and royals amass their wealth by displaying generosity by public philanthropy

Theist and atheist promote their cause by siphoning the wealth of Capitalists and Aristocrats as Social Service

In India everybody earns money and make wealth, including the God... and that keeps us united

But we are ever divided on deploying our wealth and so ....

...we invariably bury our wealth to be plundered as treasure by the next invader!

The next invader can be from China or America when the one now plundering it is multinational!!

Today corrupt politicians and corrupt ultra-rich business persons 'bury' their amassed wealth in a Swiss Bank!
 
I am aware of that. It is recollected as I have read, let me find out if I can get the source for this piece of news. Supposedly while the Pakistani Representative( a charming man ) was able to get along well with the Europeans , Gopalaswamy Ayyangar a strict teetotaller and a conservative, upright man was to do a job which ended up as a diplomatic disaster. The person concerned ( the source of this news) felt that had C.P been selected , considering C.P's easy ways with westerners( and his habit for alcohol picked up in europe ) , India's mission might have been more sucessful. The reason this person( I understand he is a diplomat ) feels C.P was not selected was due to concerns over his loyalty

What I heard is from a venerable old man who is no more today, but he was junior to the same lawyer under whom CP started as a junior. It seems CP was associated with the Leadbeater (?) homo-sexuality case ( Jiddu Krishnamurthy, his brother, Annie Besant and the Theosophical society, all were parties in that case) which reportedly went up to the privy council. It seems CP's name became less attractive to the powers that be ever since that case. In addition his erroneously close association with the Queen Mother in Travancore had also set a bad image for him and this ultimately ended in the stabbing incident which made him leave Travancore wounded and in fright.
 
The treasure in the Padmanabhaswamy temple may not all be pure donations. Anizham thirunal Marthanda Varma who is the architect of modern Travancore state had killed the "ettarayogakkaar", consisting of brahmin families, drove their women to fishermen families and dug ponds in the places where the ancestral "tharawaads" stood once. In his remorse about "brahmahathya" so committed by him only did he probably get entrapped by the advice from Namboodiris that he should not rule the country except as an agent of God, he must see that "Murajapam" (recital of vedas eight times in 48 or so days once in twelve years) and daily feeding of any brahmin at the temple throughout the day from the time "naivedyam" was offered to Padmanabha in the morning pooja till sunset, etc., were instituted. In short Brahmins made as much capital from the gullible MarthandaVarma's fear of Brahmahathya and they enjoyed the privileges close to 250 years. In the result there was a hoard of "paradesi" brahmanas (Tamil Brahmins) living within the Fort area and other pockets (agrahaarams) of Trivandrum who became a big bunch of lazy fellows. Lord Curzon, the Viceroy, on his visit to Trivandrum reportedly talked about this feeding of lazy brahmin hordes to the then king of Travancore Moolam Thirunal who took offence and boycotted all the programmes of the Viceroy in Travancore till the latter reportedly apologized in writing.

The cumulative result of the benevolence shown by the Travancore kings has been that the Tamil Brahmins of Trivandrum and nearby areas ( anyone who could make it to the temple for meals) became lazy. I have known many brahmins of previous generations who did not do anything for a living but dutifully got married and produced (as many) children as possible and blissfully depended upon the temple meals (One could eat any number of times a day;)) and the pittance they used to earn by way of palace "sarvaani" (coins sprinkled from palace balcony for brahmins in general, on special days) and from assisting vaadhyaars in their vaideekam.

Some part of the Temple treasure must have been from the plunder of neighbouring principalities like Desinganad, Chempakassery, Ilayidathu swaroopam, Thekkumkoor, Vadakkumkoor,etc., which were annexed by Marthanda Varma. Now that the treasure has been inventoried, the media will try to project a "clean and sanitized" picture about it. So, a certain amount of caution is advisable in believing all that comes out now.
 
Last edited:
The treasure in the Padmanabhaswamy temple may not all be pure donations. Anizham thirunal Marthanda Varma who is the architect of modern Travancore state had killed the "ettarayogakkaar", consisting of brahmin families, sold their women to fishermen familiesdrivenand dug ponds in the places where the ancestral "tharawaads" stood once. In his remorse about "brahmahathya" only did he probably get
This is an unknown fact. Not unlikely as Kings and Nawabs attack the common man and also get wealth through looting.

Tipu Sultan is believed to have committed atrocities in Kerala. It is believed that as an advice for the bad luck affecting him he started donating to the Sringeri Mutt and giving some donations to temple here and there. What I am surprised is, the fact that the Seer of Sringeri, did not know of his activities?
 
Today corrupt politicians and corrupt ultra-rich business persons 'bury' their amassed wealth in a Swiss Bank!
In a way the revealed wealth of Padmanabhaswamy Temple and Saibabha trust are black money that has not crossed our border! Nobody was paying tax for these things for years and nobody is interested in paying tax for it in future also. That is the reason that they want to leave it with the Ananthapadmanabhar so that they can enjoy managing it as a trustee of the God.

The black money that leave our soil at least comes back as FDI and FII. These things will remain a perennial black money
 
The treasure in the Padmanabhaswamy temple may not all be pure donations.
....
....

It was just a question of time before the topic was steered into the usual direction. The major difference in the story I had come across (that story was slanted in dravidian flavour) is that in this episode it is Tamil brahmins and their thondies (pot bellies) and in the other version I read it was namboodris and their penchant for physical gratification.

[QUOTE Anizham thirunal Marthanda Varma who is the architect of modern Travancore state had killed the "ettarayogakkaar", consisting of brahmin families,[/QUOTE]

The spin I have heard is not "yettarayogakkar" - consisting of brahmin families, but "ettuveetil Pillamar" - eight powerful Nair feudal lords - who were supported Kunju Thampies family, which in turn was supported by Pandian kingdom and the Pandian king committed treachery to let Kunju Thampi be killed at Nagarcoil by Marthanda Verma

The common factor in both stories is just about brahmin bashing.

[QUOTE Some part of the Temple treasure must have been from the plunder of neighbouring principalities like Desinganad, Chempakassery, Ilayidathu swaroopam, Thekkumkoor, Vadakkumkoor,etc., which were annexed by Marthanda Varma.[/QUOTE]

This appears to be just a hypothesis and somehow make it appear that at least a part of the treasure is a plunder.
 
Sir;

In olden days, the rulers used to maintain the Temples and manage the Temple
properties. They have constructed many choultries for the pilgrims to stay, and
food was served free. Nattukottai chettiars are generous in the South. Even in
the 1950s these free choultries were maintained by them at their cost. They
were not looting the Temple or parking their money there. I know that many
families have donated their wealth including gold ornaments to the Temple.


Many devotees also used to ( and still ) donate their ornaments to the Temple.
All these were kept in secret vaults so that the invaders do not carry them
away. During the time of Muslim invasion, the panchaloka idols were taken
out by the priests and kept at some secret places.

The point I am driving home is that these are not black money or looted
property.

Only the present day politicians loot the Temple property - from lands, from
hundis , from shopping complex etc., Do you know that contracts for the
safe custody of footwears at the entrance of the temples are awarded taking
bribe and also a share in the daily income ?

Ask them to take an inventory of the jewels and money of the temples belonging
to other faiths . They won't go near them. Only the Hindu temples are the
targets now. Why ?
 
Even today communities like NC contribute enormously to temples. The temple authorities just like that enter in their ledger and accept contributions and some time big value contributions are found dropped in Hundi. My point is that all transactions that do not result in tax to government and all undeclared wealth that is not producing tax revenue to exchequer is in fact ....black money. A NC making a contribution to temple with his black money is not declaring in any way legally the accounts for proper tax estimation.
 
In a way the revealed wealth of Padmanabhaswamy Temple and Saibabha trust are black money that has not crossed our border! Nobody was paying tax for these things for years and nobody is interested in paying tax for it in future also. That is the reason that they want to leave it with the Ananthapadmanabhar so that they can enjoy managing it as a trustee of the God.

The black money that leave our soil at least comes back as FDI and FII. These things will remain a perennial black money

Harini,

I feel the royal family of Travancore cannot ever pay the taxes due on such a large amount even if it sells ALL its belongings. Secondly, once the treasure leaves the temple, it is anybody's guess what will happen to that "white" money; most probably the items will cross the ocean end up in Sotheby's or some similar auction houses, be sold for billions or trillions of $ and then that $ will find its way to some secret account in some tax haven like Mauritius or Caymann islands :) And may I tell you that the money coming in to India as FII/FDI are only a minuscule percentage of what our politicians, exporters and others have stashed away; and they bring the money here mainly to make windfall gains in the stockmarket. Thus black money comes, collects lot of good money and goes away as bigger black money. If GOI tomorrow puts a blanket ban on FII/FDI in stock markets, they will plunge down to zero ;) immediately on hearing the news itself.

Saibaba trust may not have paid taxes for years; probably TTD also has done enough of legal exercises to pay minimum tax; but the money is still within the control of our State and Central Governments and they can utilise that well if they really want to. But have you any idea what our govts. do with the tax-payers' taxes? They simply spend in a wanton manner. Budget-specialists and analysts are not bold enough to call the emperor naked:)

Just what little I have learnt during my long life.
 
but the money is still within the control of our State and Central Governments and they can utilise that well if they really want to. But have you any idea what our govts. do with the tax-payers' taxes? They simply spend in a wanton manner. Budget-specialists and analysts are not bold enough to call the emperor naked:)

Just what little I have learnt during my long life.
This means that the white money is automatically a bad money the black money will be laid to rest in kallaras. Long live the black economy that keeps India an attractive destination for investment and ...invasion (now happening as terrorist attack)
 
தொந்திதொந்திதொந்தி
....
....

It was just a question of time before the topic was steered into the usual direction. The major difference in the story I had come across (that story was slanted in dravidian flavour) is that in this episode it is Tamil brahmins and their thondies (pot bellies) and in the other version I read it was namboodris and their penchant for physical gratification.

Dear Shri Zebra,

I find that you have a certain pre-conceived opinion of what the treasure ought to be and are unable to even countenance any differing view. This was not the impression I got till I left this forum few weeks ago! It is true that the Travancore Royal Family considers certain Namboothiris as their Rajagurus and follows their advice meticulously. It was the Nambbothiris who stipulated "thulaapurusha daanam" துலாபுருஷதானம் as a prerequisite before ascending the throne. The new incumbent gets weighed in pure gold and this gold is then given as தானம to the Namboothiris mainly because they are considered the higher class of brahmins to whom Parasurama gave away the entire Kerala originally. In the "murajapam" also only Namboothiris take part and there used to be more than sumptuous grand feasts everyday for them. Of course the cooks and their assistants down to those who serve, will generally be TBs. This was the situation even until 1920's and 1930's my parents have told me. When the fact is that TBs had their தொந்திs being filled, it is difficult to eulogize the position just because you or I happen to be a TB by the accident of birth and so do not want to see, hear or others speak ill of our folks.

[QUOTE Anizham thirunal Marthanda Varma who is the architect of modern Travancore state had killed the "ettarayogakkaar", consisting of brahmin families,[/QUOTE]

The spin I have heard is not "yettarayogakkar" - consisting of brahmin families, but "ettuveetil Pillamar" - eight powerful Nair feudal lords - who were supported Kunju Thampies family, which in turn was supported by Pandian kingdom and the Pandian king committed treachery to let Kunju Thampi be killed at Nagarcoil by Marthanda Verma

The common factor in both stories is just about brahmin bashing.[/QUOTE]

From very early history, probably going back to the Tamil Sangam times (I don't know - just a guess) this temple existed and its affairs were entrusted, probably by unwritten convention (this is the rule in some other Kerala temples like Guruvayoor as well), to eight "Potti" போற்றி families plus the king. The போற்றிs are Tulu brahmins usually priests in temples. These போற்றிs had one full vote each while the king, enjoyed a half vote. That is how the name எட்டரை யோகக்கார் came into operation. In the course of history the போற்றிs made the Pillais as their Power of Attorney holders because the former could not collect the land revenues, crop yields, market taxesசந்தைப் பிரிவு, etc., sitting in their luxurious surroundings whereas the Pillais could do these themselves or with the help of their goondas. This is part of Travancore history.

Anizham ThirunaaL was the nephew of one Ramavarma who had a concubine in Sucheendram and she was promised on oath by Rama Varma that in case she gave birth to a son, he will inherit the kingdom of Thrippaappur on which the said Ramavarma ruled. The Sucheendram woman gave birth to two sons Pappu (padmanabhan) Thampi and Raman Thampi and demanded that Pappu Thampi be made the King. Anizham ThirunaaL (AT) insisted on the family convention of "marumakkathaayam" and wanted to be made the heir apparent. The எட்டுவீட்டில் பிள்ளை and எட்டரை யோகக்கார் Pottis sided with the Thampis and AT went hiding, waged guerrilla wars and adopted different strategies at the end of which he kille all the Pillais and their famlies, drove away all the females through the West Fort to the fishermen for their enjoyment and killed the children by drowning them in களிப்பான் குளம் which is even today identified as the place where the Attakkulangara sub-jail stands. Not satisfied with this and in order to prove his invincibility and to ward off any future mischief from the Pottis, AT dealt with them just as he did with the Pillais. But then came the objection of Brahmahatya sin from the Namboodiri Kulagurus. You may like to verify the veracity or otherwise of these from more trustworthy sources than I. But the fact that the Travancore kings nurtured thousands of idle, pot-bellied, bone-lazy Tambrams is as clear to all Travancoreans as the Sun and the Moon are.

[QUOTE Some part of the Temple treasure must have been from the plunder of neighbouring principalities like Desinganad, Chempakassery, Ilayidathu swaroopam, Thekkumkoor, Vadakkumkoor,etc., which were annexed by Marthanda Varma.[/QUOTE]

This appears to be just a hypothesis and somehow make it appear that at least a part of the treasure is a plunder.[/QUOTE]When you do not want to believe something which is part of authentic history this is the typical response to be made. That AT demanded 25000கழஞ்சு (a weight) of gold from the Portuguese in return for giving them some pepper trade is a known fact; part of the gold was reportedly used for the rebuilding of the temple and the balance might have gone to the treasure. The "thrippappur" naadu inherited from RamaVarma was only just up to Trivandrum. Kindly see this map for more info. It is history that I learnt in my primary classes which said AM waged war and annexed all the small "kingdoms" till Aluva (Alwaye, now) and could not cross over the periyar river due to flooding and thus he could not conquer Kochi.

Hope you will agree that Brahmin bashing will happen when the TBs acted in a way which would invite such bashing from history :)
 
Last edited:
sh, kunjuppu, that may be his drawbacks according to the TB pov..but look at the higher side

still TBs of kerala hold a better position in KL, thanks to CPR. and look at his positive sides as Dewan..

he brought in women education there, and as on date KL tops in it, including womens employment

first fertilizer plant in india was brought by him, in spite of british anger.

he was the god for tamils.. if tb's dont care for him, all tamils have their due respect for him.. what the dravida folks sant Annadurai said remarked at a speech in 1967 that ""C. P. was the first person in India to suggest a plan for interlinking the nation's rivers"" dont forget, still cauvery-tanjavore tamilandu fights has not ended..we are missing CPR here.

he crushed the communists.. good or bad, to me its good..

In reaction to C. P.'s speeches for the creation of an "American model" of executive in Travancore,[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] a mass uprising broke out in the Allepey region in October 1946.On 24 October

the new KL tourism is still relying on white tourists and unsuccessuful FDI's but still pursuing it. KL's NRI deposits are the highest in india, not with TB's... is it not his vision

just few clips.. hope you would hv read this before about CPR, but pls have a glimpse at again, here below

C. P. Ramaswami Iyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

o
ne small draw back, he was not for independence.but he was better than any prime ministers of this independent india!

shiv,

i do not mean to demean or denigrate sir c.p.

but let us not go overboard in his praises.

The fillip to education came from the missionaries whom cp encouraged. Every town and village in kerala, by the 30s had two mission schools, one for boys, another for girls. my parents from badagara, an unknown hamlet then, studied there. education, discipline and proselytization was strict and thorough. Mummy was not allowed to wear bottu in school.

Kerala took the lead from those schools and in the process provided upward mobility to a vast underclass of hindus who converted. I think that is the biggest mass scale conversion that happened – 1910 through 30s. today the grandchildren of these people are CEOs, and high government officials.

Incidentally while all this happened, neither the pattars or the nairs cared – the theeyan and ezhava was beyond their area of concern. That is all my point and no more.

Cp did not do anything about land reforms, which again was another cause for the conversion. It was left to another set of Brahmins, ems namboodripad the namboodri to oversee, a law enacted by v.r.krishna ayyar, a pattar from telicherry, not only for land reforms, but nationalizing the schools. The land reforms hit the pattars and nairs, and the beneficiaries were theeyas, ezhavas and converted Christians.

So the church kept quiet. Then came the education bill, which threatened the church’s hold and influence. Very smartly all the xtians sects got together, managed to create ‘law and order’ situation, and Nehru from delhi dismissed ems and his coterie. Thus came the first imposition of ‘president’s rule’ aka delhi dictatorship. the pattars applauded this intervention, but their victory was pyrrhic. The land reforms could not be overturned.

The church too lost some of its powers. The teachers were paid by the state, which ensured, that they got the salary that they were hired at. even though the mgt and staff was xtians, it was not beyond the mgt to practise duplicity – print a salary voucher for 200 ruppees, and pay the poor teacher half that amount. this odious practice stopped, and which is why, even xtains in kerala, many vote for the communists.

The royal family? Where were they? No where? They had ceased to become an entity in malayali life a long time ago.

Thank you.
 
shiv,

i do not mean to demean or denigrate sir c.p.

but let us not go overboard in his praises.

The fillip to education came from the missionaries whom cp encouraged. Every town and village in kerala, by the 30s had two mission schools, one for boys, another for girls. my parents from badagara, an unknown hamlet then, studied there. education, discipline and proselytization was strict and thorough. Mummy was not allowed to wear bottu in school.

Kerala took the lead from those schools and in the process provided upward mobility to a vast underclass of hindus who converted. I think that is the biggest mass scale conversion that happened – 1910 through 30s. today the grandchildren of these people are CEOs, and high government officials.

Incidentally while all this happened, neither the pattars or the nairs cared – the theeyan and ezhava was beyond their area of concern. That is all my point and no more.

Cp did not do anything about land reforms, which again was another cause for the conversion. It was left to another set of Brahmins, ems namboodripad the namboodri to oversee, a law enacted by v.r.krishna ayyar, a pattar from telicherry, not only for land reforms, but nationalizing the schools. The land reforms hit the pattars and nairs, and the beneficiaries were theeyas, ezhavas and converted Christians.

So the church kept quiet. Then came the education bill, which threatened the church’s hold and influence. Very smartly all the xtians sects got together, managed to create ‘law and order’ situation, and Nehru from delhi dismissed ems and his coterie. Thus came the first imposition of ‘president’s rule’ aka delhi dictatorship. the pattars applauded this intervention, but their victory was pyrrhic. The land reforms could not be overturned.

The church too lost some of its powers. The teachers were paid by the state, which ensured, that they got the salary that they were hired at. even though the mgt and staff was xtians, it was not beyond the mgt to practise duplicity – print a salary voucher for 200 ruppees, and pay the poor teacher half that amount. this odious practice stopped, and which is why, even xtains in kerala, many vote for the communists.

The royal family? Where were they? No where? They had ceased to become an entity in malayali life a long time ago.

Thank you.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

It is lack of knowledge of Travancore history which possibly made you remark, "The royal family? Where were they? No where? They had ceased to become an entity in malayali life a long time ago." I give below some excerpts from a web-page. These should make it clear that a regent Rani who was mercilessly troubled by the British resident of the times, was the first person to order a school in every Taluk and for universal education of all children. I have heard from elders that the "universal" part took a long, long time to come into actual practice due to stiff opposition from the higher castes. Still, when my mother went to Malayalam scholl around 1912 -1919, it seems the ezhavas and other castes were there, though few in numbers, alongwith high caste children. Of course, problems of theendal etc., did exist alongside this as well.

"Education enjoyed high priority for the rulers of Travancore. Uthruttathi Thirunal Rani Gouri Parvathi Bayi’s reign of regency (1814-1829) was a landmark in the field of education, with succeeding rulers following her footsteps. Famous is her Proclamation of 1817 by which each Mandapathuvathukkal or district was directed to appoint one Malayalam and one Tamil teacher on equalfooting. The salary of Rs 7/- per month was considered handsome. This Proclamation is now exhibited in the University college in Thiruvananthapuram. Primary Malayalam education was introduced by the state for children between the ages of five and ten with the responsibility of sending them to school resting with the parents. Kerala is still the one state which has seriously attempted to provide compulsory primary education to all children. School dropouts are proportionately much fewer in number here. During the Rani’s rule, missionaries from overseas entered the scene in a significant way. Generous help in land, money and material was made available to them to start institutions of learning throughout the kingdom, with greater concentration in places like Nagercoil, Alappuzha, Kottayam etc. A college was set up in Kottayam. Her acclaimed nephew Maharaja Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma (1829-1847) who took over from her, paid a great deal of attention not only to formal education but to certain other systems as well. Spread of English education on a large scale came about during his time. In 1834, a year before Macaulay’s Minutes of English Education came into force making English compulsorily popular in India through the Governmental machinery, the first state English school had already started to function in the capital city of Travancore. In 1835 Swathi Thirunal established five more such schools in Thuckalay, Alappuzha, Kayamkulam, Paravoor and Chirayinkeezhu. Storing and preserving ancient manuscripts were taken up and a Granthappura was made effectively opera-tional. This was the forerunner to the Oriental Manuscripts’ Library for ancient records, serving the needs of many later scholars. Great was his contribution to astronomy in which he himself was well versed. Though many may not be aware of it, the Thiruvananthapuram observatory was set up by this Maharaja in 1836. It possessed the most sophisticated equipment available in the West at that time. It was a golden age of literature and music as well and the Maharaja’s contribu-tions in both fields have been significant and enduring.
Sree Swathi Thirunal’s younger brother Sree Uthrom Thirunal Marthanda Varma succeeded him and ruled the land from 1847 to 1860. Even when he was the Elayaraja, he was much involved in the promotion of education. His special patronage was extended to the Free School managed by his friend Mr J.Roberts, an Englishman. Students with first class were permitted to pay their respects to him in the palace and follow the Elayaraja during his evening drives. This gave real stimulus to the students to secure their grades and by the time he became the Maharaja, nearly all the students of the initial classes had passed out with flying colours and were all offered jobs in government service. The Maharaja’s interest did not wane after he assumed rulership and he would personally attend the xaminations of the students and encourage them in many ways. Deeply interested in and knowledgeable about Western medicine, popularity was generated by him in its theory and practical application. The skeleton in ivory representing a human body was specially made to enable him to study about it. Today it is an exhibit in the Natural History Museum in the Thiruvananthapuram zoo complex.
His nephew Ayilyam Thirunal Rama Varma who became the next Maharaja (1860-1880) made solid contribution to education. In 1866 the Maharaja’s College, now known as the University college, was established in the capital city. Though two mission colleges were already existing in other parts of the state of Travancore, they were second grade colleges. The Maharaja’s college was not only the premier government college, it also had the distinction of being the first Grade One college in the state. Sri V. Nagam Aiya, author of the prestigious Travancore State Manual, was one among the first batch of graduates of this college. A system was already prevailing for state selection and financial support of a fixed number of deserving but poor students of Travancore to continue higher education in the Madras University.
New English and Vernacular Schools came up in scores all over the state, so also Taluk and village schools. A grant-in-aid system was introduced which was greatly helpful in spreading elementary education. Special attention was bestowed on girls’ education leading to the setting up of schools like the Zanana Mission Girls’ School. A separate Department of Vernacular Education and a Book– Committee under Kerala Varma Valiakoil Thampuran for the preparation of necessary text books deserve special mention. In 1847 a Law class was opened to prepare candidates for the B.L. Degree examination.
Maharaja Vishaghom Thirunal Rama Varma, brother of the late Maharaja Ayilyom Thirunal was a scholar of international repute and acknowledged man of letters. Though his reign was lamentably short – 1880-1885– his educational interests included extension of elementary education by the offer of grants-in-aid."

While CP was a very able and talented man he had many drawbacks also. He had very poor opinion about the TBs of Trivandrum, and I feel rightly so as well (though no TB here would agree to it :)) There is one typical anecdote which old timers used to say and denigrate CP. There was (and perhaps still is) a Bhajana mandali in an agrahaaram house in the Padmavilasam st., which stretches from the Pazhavangadi Ganapathi Temple westwards till the Padmavilasam Palace adjacent to the Fort Hospital which is a landmark today. The Mandali was housed in the house owned/rented (?) by a raayar family and every morning and evening they used to have bhajanais.

The Maharajah it seems used to come in chariot drawn by six horses and his route went in front of this Bhajan Mandali house and the timing of the king's visit coincided with the morning Bhajan time. It seems the Tamil brahmin crowd felt that their divine bhajan should not be so disturbed but were afraid to complain to the ruler through proper channel; but one among the bright ! Tbs felt Sir CP, himself being a TB will listen to them and take necessary action because it was அரமனை ரஹஸ்யம் அங்காடி பரஸ்யம் that CP enjoyed enormous influence on the Queen Mother.

Accordingly one auspicious day as per astrology, our TBs lined up across the street when CP came in his horse-drawn carriage for temple visit, stopped his carriage and informed him of their grievances. Much to their dismay, it seems CP got down from the carriage, stood among the TB crowd and angrily told them that they, being a bunch of lazy idiots thriving on the food given by the king, should not even have dreamt of making such a representation and warned them that if they tried any of their smart-arse tactics, he will see that the house in which this bhajan mandali goes on was razed to the ground and all the fellows jailed for life!

The reality of the TBs being a group of lazy idiots thriving on free food from Padmanabhaswamy Temple was thus probably first articulated by another TB and none else!

When I was ten, I lived in a rented house near this bhajan mandali but the rebuke from CP and the fear of jail, in case something turned bad, kept most TBs, who may be claimed as very brave by nature by members here who are out on a hunt of finding out "Brahmin-bashing", out from the bhajans.
 
Last edited:
Sir;

Only the present day politicians loot the Temple property - from lands, from
hundis , from shopping complex etc.,

Dear Shri Ranganathan,

This impression viz., that only the the present day politicians loot the Temple property, is a very erroneous notion. I am aware that I may again be found fault with for what some members deem "brahmin bashing" but the recorded history of Travancore tells that Colonel Munroe, the British Resident, appointed in 1812 as Diwan of the Cochin and Travancore kingdoms, was responsible for bringing effective controls on temples. Munroe recommended that all Devaswom properties be treated as government properties and the revenue from Devaswom be merged with the general revenues of the state. In addition, for the purpose of meeting the expenses of the temples, Pathiv (that is, a scale of expenditure on uthsavams, remuneration to temple staff, maintenance charges etc.) was proposed. These recommendations were accepted by the maharajas of Cochin and Travancore. A committee was constituted to study its implications in 1815. During the reign of maharani Gowri Parvati Bayi in Travancore, a royal decree was passed forming a Devaswom Board, and most of the temples in Travancore were brought under its control. A few large temples preferred to remain independent, although they declared their allegiance to the Travancore Devaswom Board and assured it they would follow all of its policies.

The result of Munroe's action was a significant rise in the land area belonging to temples and an equally significant increase in earning by way of paddy mainly in the immediate next few years. (I do not have the numbers ready but will search and post.) What used to happen was the Brahmins (mostly Nambbothiri manas or houses) used to get land free of land-tax (fully or partly) for running the affairs of a temple, and then slowly alienate part of the land by various ingenious devices like lease, sale to benamis, and so on citing financial needs of the temple. Subsequently such alienated lands used to be transferred to the mana. In this whole chicanery sometimes TBs also benefitted because they were either officials of the government and knew about the swindling, or they themselves were members of the Temple management committee, etc.

I am aware of several "kuladeivam" temples of TBs which owned large amount of tax-free lands, even in Tamil Nadu but today only the documents remain but the lands have mostly been alenated by the TBs who were managing the temple in the past, and there are instances where the ownership ultimately went to the person managing the temple;)

Hence, let us be realistic and be aware that temple property has always been a pet target for those who had the authority to play with those assets and make quick money. Today's politicians are hard put to innovate on the past methods, because there is more accountability and public scrutiny of one type or another.
 
This means that the white money is automatically a bad money the black money will be laid to rest in kallaras. Long live the black economy that keeps India an attractive destination for investment and ...invasion (now happening as terrorist attack)

Harini,

I do not know how you define black and white moneys. In my limited knowledge black money means money or income which is unreported and therefore untaxed; the govt. does not know of this money and hence such moneys are not taken into account by the budget. Hence, it may be correct to brand the treasure in Padmanabhaswamy temple as black money, but such a categorisation can be done only when the Supreme Court finally decides about its tax-status. Suppose the Court allows the taxes due on this vast amount to be paid off in ten years, it is no longer black money, IMHO.

Satya Saibaba's moneys may be black money in the real sense and had satyasaibaba been alive, he could have been prosecuted :) for not declaring this and not paying tax on such income. But now that he is no more, the people who have found out this cash in the Yajurveda mandir can declare this in the proper manner, pay the relevant taxes and then that money also becomes white.

It is not correct to brand some money as black money unless we give time to the person concerned the time entitled to him for declaring it and paying tax. And finally, it is not the black economy as such which makes India an attractive destination for investment; it is black money laundered, which finds India a safe place to invest and make maximum returns. Let there be one more attack in Mumbai and then see how FII and FDI just flow out of India :) Even in normal times if you read the financial papers, you will find references to FDI/FII moving in and out of the country. This is the hobby of Oil magnates and other rich people of the world and they make the stock exchanges around the world dance to their tune with their one click on the mobile/ipod moving billions of USD from one country to another! You have to see it to believe it.
 
Namaste Sri Sangom,

தொந்திதொந்திதொந்தி

Dear Shri Zebra,

I find that you have a certain pre-conceived opinion of what the treasure ought to be and are unable to even countenance any differing view.

My opinion (pre-conceived or otherwise) of what the treasure ought to be is comprised of the following: The provenance of the temple treasure - The Hindu: Mobile Edition; and Do the treasures belong to the temple? | Sree Padmanabhaswamy Temple | | The New Indian Express. In your article you have not indicated what the treasure is, hence it is difficult to say whether I am able or unable to countenance a different view.

This was not the impression I got till I left this forum few weeks ago!

Just the previous day, I had read the article I had alluded to in my previous message (I am unable to upload the article, as I am extremely doubtful of its authenticity) and my mind was practically made up that it was a brahmin bashing, when your article came along, which transposed TBs in place of nambudris at a few places and there were certain discrepancies. My immediate feeling was that you had walked the proverbial extra mile or so to write about the TBs and the context was lacking for such a write-up.

It is true that the Travancore Royal Family ........

As I said earlier, there are some discrepancies in the version I have and the info. furnished by you. Depending upon exigency and your inclination, we may take up the matter later.

Some part of the Temple treasure must have been from the plunder of neighbouring principalities like Desinganad, Chempakassery, Ilayidathu swaroopam, Thekkumkoor, Vadakkumkoor,etc., which were annexed by Marthanda Varma.
and my reply that "This appears to be just a hypothesis and somehow make it appear that at least a part of the treasure is a plunder." and
When you do not want to believe something which is part of authentic history this is the typical response to be made.

In your earlier message you had not indicated any reasons as to why you feel that some part of the treasure MUST have been a plunder; when historians in the two links have indicated that it is not so.

That AT demanded 25000கழஞ்சு (a weight) of gold from the Portuguese in return for giving them some pepper trade is a known fact; part of the gold was reportedly used for the rebuilding of the temple and the balance might have gone to the treasure.

This is new info and I shall revert back after checking up with some info I have.

Hope you will agree that Brahmin bashing will happen when the TBs acted in a way which would invite such bashing from history :)

Yes. But to read about it as a "news item" is different from reading it as a "classified advt."

Regards,

narayan
 
Sangom Sir said this in his post #115:
While CP was a very able and talented man he had many drawbacks also. He had very poor opinion about the TBs of Trivandrum, and I feel rightly so as well (though no TB here would agree to it
clip_image002.gif
) There is one typical anecdote which old timers used to say and denigrate CP. There was (and perhaps still is) a Bhajana mandali in an agrahaaram house in the Padmavilasam st., which stretches from the Pazhavangadi Ganapathi Temple westwards till the Padmavilasam Palace adjacent to the Fort Hospital which is a landmark today. The Mandali was housed in the house owned/rented (?) by a raayar family and every morning and evening they used to have bhajanais.
The Maharajah it seems used to come in chariot drawn by six horses and his route went in front of this Bhajan Mandali house and the timing of the king's visit coincided with the morning Bhajan time. It seems the Tamil brahmin crowd felt that their divine bhajan should not be so disturbed but were afraid to complain to the ruler through proper channel; but one among the bright ! Tbs felt Sir CP, himself being a TB will listen to them and take necessary action because it was அரமனை ரஹஸ்யம் அங்காடி பரஸ்யம் that CP enjoyed enormous influence on the Queen Mother.
Accordingly one auspicious day as per astrology, our TBs lined up across the street when CP came in his horse-drawn carriage for temple visit, stopped his carriage and informed him of their grievances. Much to their dismay, it seems CP got down from the carriage, stood among the TB crowd and angrily told them that they, being a bunch of lazy idiots thriving on the food given by the king, should not even have dreamt of making such a representation and warned them that if they tried any of their smart-arse tactics, he will see that the house in which this bhajan mandali goes on was razed to the ground and all the fellows jailed for life!
The reality of the TBs being a group of lazy idiots thriving on free food from Padmanabhaswamy Temple was thus probably first articulated by another TB and none else!

What a great revelation!! CP was an administrator-and just that. I won’t even say he was very able. Please visit the Malayala Manorama Head Quarters in Kottayam and you will see a big lock hanging in a padlock as an exhibit for visitors to see. It was the lock that was put there to close down the newspaper because the family that owned the newspaper did not lend money to the King of Travancore when he was hard pressed for cash (Indira Gandhi perhaps learnt her lessons on Emergency from the history). And who was the 'able' Divan advising the King? Our great administrator. CP was known for his weaknesses. His moral standards were poor. Debauchery and licentiousness were not unknown to him and he indulged in them when he was Diwan until he got a ‘nosecut’.

The particular ‘anecdote’ Sangom Sir has explained reveals what a snob this man was and how uppity this ‘great administrator’ was. It shows that it was a fashion even in those days to deride brahmins, to call them lazy bones with pot bellies etc., And even today this incident is recalled here only to show that brahmins were lazy bones etc., I do not know about Sangom Sir’s ancestors. But I know many families of TBs from Trivandrum. Their ancestors were learned TBs(learned in Sanskrit and Vedas) who were mostly migrants from the southern districts of Tamilnadu. They went to Travancore because the King’s court had supported and patronized scholars for their vedic knowledge. Many of these families owned fertile lands in Tamilnadu and were not dependent on the temple for their survival. I know many families who brought their annual requirement of rice from the paddy grown in their fields in far away places like Veeravanallur, Ambasamudram,Vallanadu, Chezhiyanallur etc in the fertile Tamirabarani basin Of course there would have been some rare exceptions but exceptions do not become the rule. In fact these brahmins rarely went to the oottuppura to eat the food provided there by the temple. There is a limit to generalization. Unfortunately this is not realized by some learned men here in their frenzy to put down/bash brahmins. In any case the ‘great administrator’ was not qualified to pass any comments about the TBs in Trivandrum.

When I was ten, I lived in a rented house near this bhajan mandali but the rebuke from CP and the fear of jail, in case something turned bad, kept most TBs, who may be claimed as very brave by nature by members here who are out on a hunt of finding out "Brahmin-bashing", out from the bhajans.

When you fight a powerful enemy far superior to you, with a lot of resources at his command and die in the battle field(the inevitable consequence) it is not called bravery. The word is foolhardiness.TBs may be brave but certainly are not foolhardy.That is why they are GREAT SURVIVORS!

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
while we are at it re the dewan, here is another dewan, much greater than cp in my opinion. but modest and had his mindset along the right lines....

V. T. Krishnamachari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in fact i would imagine, baroda, a bigger and more strategically placed princely state than travancore. so, i do not understand re all the fuss about sir cp, where as sir vtk had a much more illustrous career. all around, pre & post independent india. :)
 
Harini,

I do not know how you define black and white moneys.
To me the black money of the devotees offered as a contribution continues to be a black money. I have earlier posed a question as to how the income tax people will tax the wealth that people believe Bhagwan Sathya Sai created by black magic. Therefore I suspect that all black magics are just a cover-up for black money. It is not clear to me as to why the trustees say the wealth as the offering from devotees. If only they have answered it as the creation of wealth by Bhagwan.....!!!
 
Here is the latest news on the Temple issue.
T. P. Sundarrajan, Advocate, whose legal battle led to the opening of the long-shut vaults of the Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram where priceless treasures were kept, died in the early hours today (Sunday).

Sundarrajan, 70, was a former IPS Officer and a bachelor. It is said that he had been suffering from fever for the last two days,

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Here is the latest news on the Temple issue.
T. P. Sundarrajan, Advocate, whose legal battle led to the opening of the long-shut vaults of the Sree Padmanabhaswamy temple in Thiruvananthapuram where priceless treasures were kept, died in the early hours today (Sunday).

Sundarrajan, 70, was a former IPS Officer and a bachelor. It is said that he had been suffering from fever for the last two days,

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I also read that Mr. Sundarajan suspected of "looting" of the treasures by people around the Temple, which only forced him to get the Inventory done.

Hence, he approached the Supreme Court....

It seems people in Tamil Nadu talk aloud about "their share of the treasures" because a part of TN was a part of Travancore Kingdom in 1700-1900 CE.

Wait & watch.
 
Swadeshi Black Money

I am seeing a trend now. People who are talking about curbing black economy, like Swadeshi Group (SG), are talking only about bringing the money stashed abroad. They deliberately ignore the black money havens within India! The recent topical activity in Tamilnadu is about initiatives against 'land grabbing' and at all India level it is about 'forcible land acquisition'. Real Estate business (or infrastructure sector or Property Industry) is where the bulk of the black money is. The Private Educational institutions are the next in line. The Chartered Accountants in India have schemed intelligently these businesses as a sanctuary for black money. Therefore they lobby openly to protect it. That is the reason media and public are not yet seen the reality of blackness in the treasure of the temple, mutt and trusts.
 
A more recent argument is that the black money got exported only after LPG by last decade of the last century. The reason they say is that the corruption started only after that. But SG is not mentioning anything about the un-exported black money. Also it may not be a coincidence that NDA regime started only after LPG!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest ads

Back
Top