• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple Treasure.

Status
Not open for further replies.
You are Right HH about your views on the Royal Family,
It is really Gatifying to note that for over Two and Half Centuries The Royal Family of Travancore has not only safeguarded the wealth but also not claimed a gram of Gold from theTreasure.If it were left to the custody of Politicians,Private Trustees(like the one Sai Trust) with or without the Knowledge of people controlling the Treasure it would all have been Swallowed.At this stage The Treasure should be left the Travancore Royal Family snd the Status quo should continue.
alwan
 
hi

swami ayyappooo enthenkilumundenkil matti vechoo....padmanabhante ullathellam poyi...LOL

regards
tbs
 
Last edited:
You are Right HH about your views on the Royal Family,
It is really Gatifying to note that for over Two and Half Centuries The Royal Family of Travancore has not only safeguarded the wealth but also not claimed a gram of Gold from theTreasure.If it were left to the custody of Politicians,Private Trustees(like the one Sai Trust) with or without the Knowledge of people controlling the Treasure it would all have been Swallowed.At this stage The Treasure should be left the Travancore Royal Family snd the Status quo should continue.
alwan
பாடுபட்டுத் தேடிப்பணத்தைப் புதைத்துவைத்துக்
கேடுகெட்ட மானிடரே கேளுங்கள் - கூடுவிட்டிங்
காவிதான் போயினபின் பாரே யநுபவிப்பார்
பாவிகா ளந்தப் பணம்.
The habit of protecting the wealth is what killing our economy. Nobody can swallow gold and diamond and digest it. These are wealth only if they are deployed productively. The Indians show a caterpillar's appetite in earning money. But when it comes to deploying it they score a big zero. That is the reason all the productive capital deployed now in India is an FDI. It is strange that people talk now about status quo. Will these people agree if Supreme Court has ordered status quo for the rotting grains in our granaries amidst poverty death happening everywhere?

For a Royal family the service to God should come only after service to people. May be the Royal family might have protected it due to political turmoil arising out of invasion. But did they do anything to use it for a war against invasion?
 
hi
some history background....

SRI PADMANABHASAWMY TEMPLE, TRIVANDRUM
And
SIR THOMAS MUNRO, GOVERNOR of MADRAS
Hinduism, also called Sanathana Dharma, is universal in application and does not make any difference between one religion and the other. All the devotees who believe and follow the tenets of Hinduism are respected and rewarded alike. The foregoing is a classic example of an Englishman by name Sir Thomas Munro [1761-1827] who was the Governor of Madras and his devotional attachment to Sri Padmanabha Swamy Temple at Trivandrum [then called Travancore]. When India was ruled by the British, there were so many princely states like Mysore, Rajasthan, Travancore etc which were directly ruled by the respective Maharajas who owed allegiance to the British throne. The erstwhile Maharajas of Travancore ruled the State in the belief that it was their ‘Divine Right to Rule’. They were simultaneously aware of the fact that the Right to Rule entirely depended on their ability to rule ‘rightly’ in keeping with the tenets of Hindu Dharma or Raja Dharma as it is called in Sanskrit. They also knew that it was Divinity that gave them the power to rule. In 1750, King Martanda Varma, the most powerful of the Travancore rulers, pledged that he and his descendents would serve the kingdom as servants of Lord Padmanabha [Padmanabha Dasa], the Lord being the King. The British had observed the tradition and honoured the Lord with a 21-gun salute When the Indian states were merged, Independent India appointed the Travancore royal head as the Raj Pramukh; but he preferred to be known as Padmanabha Dasa, and not as Raja Pramukh. The government had continued to honour the tradition of 21 gun-salutes to the Lord till 1970 when, along with the abolition of princely titles, the honour of the Lord was withdrawn! Sri Padmanabha Swamy Temple, as seen today, was built by Maharaja Martanda Varma in 1773. Dedicated to Lord Vishnu, the Temple has an 18 feet long idol and a seven-tier Gopuram. Sometime in the early 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century, the State was ruled by Maharaja Martanda Varma. When he passed away in 1813 he had no male heir to succeed him to the throne. So, the British Government approved of a provisional arrangement to rule the State by making his wife Rani Lakshmibai as a Regent. This was an immediate and temporary arrangement till a final decision was taken about the successor. At that time Thomas Munro who was stationed at Travancore was representing the British Government as Dewan.of Travancore. After sometime, the Governor General of India asked Munro to intimate the name of a suitable successor. Munro could not give an immediate reply as he knew that at that time Rani Lakshmibai was carrying and the delivery was expected soon. If the Rani failed to deliver a male child, the Travancore State, as per the Doctrine of Succession, would lapse to the British throne. When a final reminder came from the Governor General for an immediate reply and the decision could not brook any delay, Munro was in a real fix. The Queen had not yet delivered. However, as Munro had great respect to Hinduism and believed in the Divinity of Lord Padmanabha and as he was also keen on continuing the lineage of the Maharaja, he prayed to Lord Padmanabha and sent a letter to the Governor General saying that the Queen had delivered a male child, even though no delivery had taken place. He took a great risk of uttering a lie, guided by an inner voice that divine intervention would prove him true. Munro spent sleepless nights after sending the letter. One fine morning he went on horse back to the East Fort at Travancore and facing the Lord murmured “O Lord! I believe you are omnipotent. I adore you. Please grant me a boon. Let Her Highness deliver a male child. There should not be a gap in your Slave Kings. Bless Her Highness with a male child for the throne”. He further added “if it is true that you are there, grant me my boon. If it is not granted, I cannot say what I will do”. After his prayer, Munro returned to the Residency, his official residence. Within a few minutes, he heard the news that Her Highness had delivered a male child. The joy of the Resident knew no bounds. He cried in ecstasy “O Lord Padmanabha! You are a reality. You are very much there in flesh and blood” The male child that was born to Rani Lakshmibai in 1813 was none other than the most famous ruler of the State who later ascended the throne of Travancore as Swathi Tirunal Maharaja—one of the greatest composers of Carnatic music. Besides music, His Highness was highly learned in Sanskrit, poetry and other fine arts. Though His Highness died at the young age of 34 years, he ruled the State for nearly 18 years and was a master of 13 languages. Apart from music compositions, he has written a book on “The Theory of Music” in his own handwriting which is preserved even today in the Department of Oriental Studies, Trivandrum. Munro became an ardent devotee of Lord Padmanabha and personally undertook the work of temple administration. The code he evolved in Temple Administration is even now followed in several temples of that region. As a digression, it may be noted that when Munro first came to India and took service under the British Government in 1801, he was for some time looking after the administration of some of the districts in the South, ceded by the Nizam of Hyderabad. In this capacity, he was once entrusted with the job of bringing the land on which the famous Sri Raghavendra Swamy Math is situated in Mantralaya under the control and jurisdiction of the East India Company under the Permanent Settlement Act. When this order came to the notice of the local citizens, many natives and devotees of the Math vehemently opposed the move as they thought it would be a religious sacrilege for a foreign government to encroach upon the holy premises of the Math. They approached Munro with their grievance. Munro decided to visit Mantralaya personally and check about the religious sanctity of the Math. It is said that when he reached the Math premises, removed his shoes and was about to enter the Math, Sri Raghavendra Swamy himself appeared before him in a vision and it is further said that both became involved in a conversation. However, no one knew about this till the fact was made known by Munro himself. A subsequent issue of the Madras Government Gazette, however, bears witness to this strange incident. It is also learnt that soon after this incident, Munro was promoted as the Governor of Madras Presidency in which capacity he got cancelled the earlier decision of the British Government to annex Mantralaya. When the Math sent some consecrated coloured rice [Mantrakshatha] to Munro as God’s Blessings on the occasion of his elevation to the post of Governor, he received it with all humility and reverence. Sir Thomas Munro, Scottish by birth and Hindu at heart, died of Cholera in India in 1827 when he was on tour of the Northern Districts. B.M.N.Murthy


cortesy Keralaiyers.com

regards
tbs
 
To me the black money of the devotees offered as a contribution continues to be a black money. I have earlier posed a question as to how the income tax people will tax the wealth that people believe Bhagwan Sathya Sai created by black magic. Therefore I suspect that all black magics are just a cover-up for black money. It is not clear to me as to why the trustees say the wealth as the offering from devotees. If only they have answered it as the creation of wealth by Bhagwan.....!!!

Harini,

"Black money" unlike a bearer cheque, does not always remain black and that is the reason for the very term "money laundering" (turning black or soiled money into white) originating. I do not believe that SSB had any power to "create" anything new, but having started in his life as a street magician, he had unbelievably nimble hands and could create the impression that he was a supernatural being. Youtube has videos revealing how the tricks were executed in a few instances. See ‪TV9 - "SRI SATHYA SAI BABA's" TRICKS REVEALED - Full‬‏ - YouTube and ‪Sai Baba Tricks Completely Exposed, Satya sai baba fraud, Sa.mp4‬‏ - YouTube
Since these should thus be existing money, sacred ash, sivalingam, saalagraamam, gold chain, wrist watch etc., only the source is unknown. In that way any currency if created by ssb may be treated as black money by the tax authorities till its genuineness is proved.

In my limited knowledge "all sanyasis and babas and gurus are for covering up and laundering black money except when otherwise proved". Devotees with huge amounts of black money like politicians, industrialists, anti-social elements and even terrorist organisations, those having links with drug trafficking, illegal arms trade, sex trade etc., in fact cause new swamijis and gurujis to germinate, nurture their growth - mostly meteoric - with the help of the vast amounts of money at their disposal and then enjoy the benefits of such laundered money; the last point is usually covered in extreme secrecy.

If "Bhagwan" had created real wealth as you seem to hope, all of that would be illegal and could be attached by any honest government, leaving the Bhagwan once again to the mercy of the ordinary devotees!!
 
Harini,

"Black money" unlike a bearer cheque, does not always remain black and that is the reason for the very term "money laundering" (turning black or soiled money into white) originating. I do not believe that SSB had any power to "create" anything new, but having started in his life as a street magician, he had unbelievably nimble hands and could create the impression that he was a supernatural being. Youtube has videos revealing how the tricks were executed in a few instances. See ‪TV9 - "SRI SATHYA SAI BABA's" TRICKS REVEALED - Full‬‏ - YouTube and ‪Sai Baba Tricks Completely Exposed, Satya sai baba fraud, Sa.mp4‬‏ - YouTube
Since these should thus be existing money, sacred ash, sivalingam, saalagraamam, gold chain, wrist watch etc., only the source is unknown. In that way any currency if created by ssb may be treated as black money by the tax authorities till its genuineness is proved.

In my limited knowledge "all sanyasis and babas and gurus are for covering up and laundering black money except when otherwise proved". Devotees with huge amounts of black money like politicians, industrialists, anti-social elements and even terrorist organisations, those having links with drug trafficking, illegal arms trade, sex trade etc., in fact cause new swamijis and gurujis to germinate, nurture their growth - mostly meteoric - with the help of the vast amounts of money at their disposal and then enjoy the benefits of such laundered money; the last point is usually covered in extreme secrecy.

If "Bhagwan" had created real wealth as you seem to hope, all of that would be illegal and could be attached by any honest government, leaving the Bhagwan once again to the mercy of the ordinary devotees!!

Dear Sangom Sir:

With your characteristic clarity of thinking and analysis, you have said it very well about "Bhagwan" Sai (and other Godmen).

Thank you.

Regards

Y
 
only the source is unknown.
"all sanyasis and babas and gurus are for covering up and laundering black money
Doing just magic and exhibiting as a tantrik is something that all have perceived about him, including his devotees. The devotees are behind him for the watch or chain that Baba may throw on him/her!

The purpose of earning extra money is for offering it to the needy (Dhaanam). The rulers of our land understood this and did offered the earned wealth with right discrimination to the needy. The best part of it did reached the temple and the temples served as an hub of economic activity for social justice. The temples by itself did 'dhaanam' from its revenue in the form of offering and performed numerous festivals to kindle the local economy. But today the understanding has changed and people are looking for ways to build their own treasure trove in the guise of 'savings' and so the concept of 'dharmam' has died in our mind. The preaching of the SG that it is the Indian saving that saved Indian economy from being affected by financial meltdown is the worst part of it. Are we migrating from the age old magnanimous understanding of 'Dharmam Thalai kaakkum' to selfish understanding of 'Savings thalaimurai kakkum?
 
Doing just magic and exhibiting as a tantrik is something that all have perceived about him, including his devotees. The devotees are behind him for the watch or chain that Baba may throw on him/her!

The purpose of earning extra money is for offering it to the needy (Dhaanam). The rulers of our land understood this and did offered the earned wealth with right discrimination to the needy. The best part of it did reached the temple and the temples served as an hub of economic activity for social justice. The temples by itself did 'dhaanam' from its revenue in the form of offering and performed numerous festivals to kindle the local economy. But today the understanding has changed and people are looking for ways to build their own treasure trove in the guise of 'savings' and so the concept of 'dharmam' has died in our mind. The preaching of the SG that it is the Indian saving that saved Indian economy from being affected by financial meltdown is the worst part of it. Are we migrating from the age old magnanimous understanding of 'Dharmam Thalai kaakkum' to selfish understanding of 'Savings thalaimurai kakkum?

Smt. (I suppose this is correct) Harini,

I like your pov and also the way you express it. I don't get what is meant by SG, though.

"Savings" saving India from the financial meltdown and "Dharmam thalai kaakkum" are, IMHO, two different scenarios. The second, viz., "Dharmam thalai kaakkum" applies to sharing a part of your surplus income/wealth with other needy people without expecting anything in return, and this condition is important. If you go through the newspapers or watch regularly the Malayalam TV channel asianet's programme "Kannaadi" கண்ணாடி, you will find that any request for helping people who are genuinely in need does get ample response from far and wide. I for one, therefore, believe that even amidst the consumerist mentality of today, there is innate compassion and empathy within the hearts of people. But there are many, many people who will look for tax-exemption or புண்யம் (religious merit) in any charity they give, and these are the people who give large donations to mutts, swamijis, ashrams, babas and so on. The former set of people make the "Dharmam thalai kaakkum" principle work even today while both the sets encourage frugality and savings, indirectly perhaps.

In the US, August 2 is a crucial date and probably you know it. If the US govt. does not pass a law which will make more debt legal by that date, the US will not be able to borrow even a cent more; it won't be able to pay its officials, or do anything including pay the President's salary. Since US is like a Draupadi with many husbands, most of the world, including China will sink, so to say, along with the US ;) if such an eventuality happens. But since the senators also will stop getting their emoluments and it will hit them also equally, we may see that the US raises its debt ceiling before that date.

US is a nation which has lived beyond its means by borrowing from almost the rest of the world for far too long and it will have to learn a lesson from India, one day or another, and then it will realize the truth of the saying "savings thalaimuraikalai kaakkum";) But this does not mean that people will become stingy and Dharma will vanish altogether from this world!

Anyway, have you read anywhere about what exactly is this "Dharma"? In the famous yakṣa praśna of Mahabharata, yudhiṣṭhira answers one of the questions of yakṣa as under:—

तर्कोऽप्रतिष्ठः श्रुतयो विभिन्नाः
नैको ‍ऋषिर्र्यस्य मतं प्रमाणम्।
धर्मस्य तत्त्वं निहितं गुहायां
महाजनो येन गतः स पन्थाः ॥
( Logic alone cannot establish a conclusion. The oral
tradition varies. There is no one sage whose teaching is accepted by all.
The essence of Dharma is something that is hidden in secrecy.
Thus the way people should follow is the path traversed by great
individuals.)
 
I give below the excerpts from Blog site Sathya Sai Baba - Life, Love and Spirituality without any comment.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Sathya Sai Baba asked me the year of my birth, and when I told him, He said that He would get for me from America a coin minted there in that same year.

He began to circle his down-turned hand in the air in front of us, making perhaps half a dozen small circles, saying, “It’s coming now… coming… here it is!”
Then He closed His hand and held it before me, smiling as if enjoying my eager expectancy. When the coin dropped from His hand to mine, I noted first that it was heavy and golden.
On closer examination I found, to my delight, that it was a genuine milled American ten-dollar coin, with the year of my birth stamped beneath a profile head of the Statue of Liberty.
“Born the same year as you,” Swami smiled.

What would the sceptics say about this, I wondered.
Would they suggest that Baba carried around with him a stock of coins so that He would have one to match my year of birth.
Such old American coins, now long out of circulation, would not be easy for Him to obtain in India through normal channels.
I have no doubt whatever that this was one of Baba’s many genuine apports. While He circled his hand before us, some agency under his will had dematerialised this gold coin at some place somewhere, carried it at space-annihilating velocity, and re-materialised it in Sai Baba’s hand.

From where did it come? Who knows? Sathya Sai Baba would never say; perhaps from some old hoard, hidden, lost, forgotten long ago, and now belonging to no one alive.
Reference: “Sai Baba: Man of Miracles” by Mr. Howard Murphet. Page: 84 (Paperback Edition, 1972). Published by Macmillan India Ltd."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: I checked the meaning for the word Apport used in the Blog and found the following
Paranormal Definition: An apport is a solid object that seemingly appears from nowhere in the presence of a medium. Some apports are assembled from invisible material matter; others are teleported from another often-distant location.

Brahmanyan.
Bangalore.



 
I give below the excerpts from Blog site Sathya Sai Baba - Life, Love and Spirituality without any comment.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Sathya Sai Baba asked me the year of my birth, and when I told him, He said that He would get for me from America a coin minted there in that same year.

He began to circle his down-turned hand in the air in front of us, making perhaps half a dozen small circles, saying, “It’s coming now… coming… here it is!”
Then He closed His hand and held it before me, smiling as if enjoying my eager expectancy. When the coin dropped from His hand to mine, I noted first that it was heavy and golden.
On closer examination I found, to my delight, that it was a genuine milled American ten-dollar coin, with the year of my birth stamped beneath a profile head of the Statue of Liberty.
“Born the same year as you,” Swami smiled.

What would the sceptics say about this, I wondered.
Would they suggest that Baba carried around with him a stock of coins so that He would have one to match my year of birth.
Such old American coins, now long out of circulation, would not be easy for Him to obtain in India through normal channels.
I have no doubt whatever that this was one of Baba’s many genuine apports. While He circled his hand before us, some agency under his will had dematerialised this gold coin at some place somewhere, carried it at space-annihilating velocity, and re-materialised it in Sai Baba’s hand.

From where did it come? Who knows? Sathya Sai Baba would never say; perhaps from some old hoard, hidden, lost, forgotten long ago, and now belonging to no one alive.
Reference: “Sai Baba: Man of Miracles” by Mr. Howard Murphet. Page: 84 (Paperback Edition, 1972). Published by Macmillan India Ltd."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: I checked the meaning for the word Apport used in the Blog and found the following
Paranormal Definition: An apport is a solid object that seemingly appears from nowhere in the presence of a medium. Some apports are assembled from invisible material matter; others are teleported from another often-distant location.

Brahmanyan.
Bangalore.
Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

I was not aware that you are also a SSB devotee. The fact that Mr. Howard Murphet was a staunch SSB devotee makes his testimony something like வேலிக்கு ஓணான் ஸாக்ஷி in Tamizh, IMO. Even if we forget this aspect for the moment, and assume the account to be true in all respects, Mr. Murphet was born in the year 1906 and a Liberty Head of that year is not all that difficult for a person like SSB to acquire. (Ten Dollar Gold Coins, the Liberty Head Eagle Gold Coins, are quite easy to find. Most examples are worth about $175 and closely follow the price of gold bullion. — Ten Dollar Gold Coin) The given anecdote does not state specifically that SSB started waving his hands in semi-circles immediately on Murphet telling him the year of his birth. Incidentally, for a person who could apport a US minted gold coin from some unknown corner of the earth, why was it not possible to know the year of birth of Murphet? Is this a more difficult task in the ethereal plane of apporting, etc?

What I would think is that as soon as Mr. Murphet told his year of birth and SSB answered saying that He would get for him (Mr. Murphet) from America a coin minted there in that same year, one of SSB's trusted assistants would have searched out a fitting gold coin from his collections, covered it deftly in a handkerchief and placed it unobtrusively in front of SSB who would then take it, wipe his face and chin up to the shoulders with it and then get the coin just as the video I referred to in my post #132 depicts the materialisation of a gold chain and a wrist watch. Mr. Murphet of course would like to give it out as miracle. And this is the way Godmen are created ;)
 
I give below the excerpts from Blog site Sathya Sai Baba - Life, Love and Spirituality without any comment.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Sathya Sai Baba asked me the year of my birth, and when I told him, He said that He would get for me from America a coin minted there in that same year.

He began to circle his down-turned hand in the air in front of us, making perhaps half a dozen small circles, saying, “It’s coming now… coming… here it is!”
Then He closed His hand and held it before me, smiling as if enjoying my eager expectancy. When the coin dropped from His hand to mine, I noted first that it was heavy and golden.
On closer examination I found, to my delight, that it was a genuine milled American ten-dollar coin, with the year of my birth stamped beneath a profile head of the Statue of Liberty.
“Born the same year as you,” Swami smiled.

What would the sceptics say about this, I wondered.
Would they suggest that Baba carried around with him a stock of coins so that He would have one to match my year of birth.
Such old American coins, now long out of circulation, would not be easy for Him to obtain in India through normal channels.
I have no doubt whatever that this was one of Baba’s many genuine apports. While He circled his hand before us, some agency under his will had dematerialised this gold coin at some place somewhere, carried it at space-annihilating velocity, and re-materialised it in Sai Baba’s hand.

From where did it come? Who knows? Sathya Sai Baba would never say; perhaps from some old hoard, hidden, lost, forgotten long ago, and now belonging to no one alive.
Reference: “Sai Baba: Man of Miracles” by Mr. Howard Murphet. Page: 84 (Paperback Edition, 1972). Published by Macmillan India Ltd."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS: I checked the meaning for the word Apport used in the Blog and found the following
Paranormal Definition: An apport is a solid object that seemingly appears from nowhere in the presence of a medium. Some apports are assembled from invisible material matter; others are teleported from another often-distant location.

Brahmanyan.
Bangalore.

Dear folk,

Just like you I am eagerly waiting for the inputs on this from:
1. Mr. Sangom Sir
2. Mr. Nara.
3. Mr. Yamaka.

Cheers.
 
Dear folk,

Just like you I am eagerly waiting for the inputs on this from:
1. Mr. Sangom Sir
2. Mr. Nara.
3. Mr. Yamaka.

Cheers.

It came fast and thick from Sangom Sir. Now:
( Logic alone cannot establish a conclusion. The oral
tradition varies. There is no one sage whose teaching is accepted by all.
The essence of Dharma is something that is hidden in secrecy.
Thus the way people should follow is the path traversed by great
individuals.)

Cheers.
 
Dhaanam is the Dharmam here

I don't get what is meant by SG, though.


( Logic alone cannot establish a conclusion. The oral
tradition varies. There is no one sage whose teaching is accepted by all.
The essence of Dharma is something that is hidden in secrecy.
Thus the way people should follow is the path traversed by great
individuals.)
The SG is explained in this forum as Swadeshi Group and it also has a Brahmin face of an SG in Tamilnadu. SG says that it predicted economic melt down of US but adds that nothing will happen to India because of the Indian's propensity for saving. By saving they means the tendencies like dropping one part of the earning in to hundi kept near the portrait of the God in house to saving in the bank. By this they mean that the Indians do not over spend and so are contended with what they have. But they also confuse that the India can foot all the expenses for its infrastructure requirement from its savings without needing a penny as FDI. For me a spent saving (here for infrastructure) will never be saving again. But unspent saving will lead only to the treasure troves. That is the reason our emphasis always is on Dhaanam and not on Saving traditionally. The saving habit is what is causing the trouble to us.

In this context the Dharmam is only meant as Seitha Dharmam and it can only be Dhaanam.

The one thing that I have to say is that the SG do not have the right attitude to answer such questions for the image of unchallenged wise people is what is getting them their clients (in their private business)
 
Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

I was not aware that you are also a SSB devotee. The fact that Mr. Howard Murphet was a staunch SSB devotee makes his testimony something like வேலிக்கு ஓணான் ஸாக்ஷி in Tamizh, IMO. Even if we forget this aspect for the moment, and assume the account to be true in all respects, Mr. Murphet was born in the year 1906 and a Liberty Head of that year is not all that difficult for a person like SSB to acquire. (Ten Dollar Gold Coins, the Liberty Head Eagle Gold Coins, are quite easy to find. Most examples are worth about $175 and closely follow the price of gold bullion. — Ten Dollar Gold Coin) The given anecdote does not state specifically that SSB started waving his hands in semi-circles immediately on Murphet telling him the year of his birth. Incidentally, for a person who could apport a US minted gold coin from some unknown corner of the earth, why was it not possible to know the year of birth of Murphet? Is this a more difficult task in the ethereal plane of apporting, etc?

What I would think is that as soon as Mr. Murphet told his year of birth and SSB answered saying that He would get for him (Mr. Murphet) from America a coin minted there in that same year, one of SSB's trusted assistants would have searched out a fitting gold coin from his collections, covered it deftly in a handkerchief and placed it unobtrusively in front of SSB who would then take it, wipe his face and chin up to the shoulders with it and then get the coin just as the video I referred to in my post #132 depicts the materialisation of a gold chain and a wrist watch. Mr. Murphet of course would like to give it out as miracle. And this is the way Godmen are created ;)

Dear Sri "Sangom",

Well. Whether I am a devotee or not, I do not use strong words in my posts that may cause pain to other believers. I try to be a good human being.

I wish to remind that in my earlier posts I have written I have only one Guru in my life, that is my father who had initiated "Gayathri manthra" to me at the time of my Upanayanam. How ever, I respect all those who have done some thing or other to better the life of others.

I am not a knowledgeable or wise person. But I have an open mind to read books and writings on various subjects of interest that I come across. During my continuous search for knowledge I have come across many Mahathmas, Acharyas and leaders who have been doing great things silently in the cause of ameliorating the sufferings of less fortunate beings.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
Dear sir,

It is not a question of whether one is a devotee of SSB or not. We do appreciate
the good work done by him. Look at the chain of schools and colleges founded
by him and the hi-tech hospitals at Bangalore and Puttaparthi. You must also
appreciate his immense contribution to the supply of drinking water to the ceded districts of AP and also help laying of the canal for water supply to TN.

One single individual has done it. The Govt. with all its manpower and money
could not do it. Unless he has some sakthi, this is not possible.

He has preached love of God and His creations. He has not preached hatred and
violence.

People found peace, shanthi and happiness in his presence.

To that extent he commands respect and regard. A single individual has created a Trust with an estimated corpus of Rs 40,000 cr all accounted for as per reports.

No comments about the money found and jewels found now.
 
Last edited:
Dear Sri "Sangom",

Well. Whether I am a devotee or not, I do not use strong words in my posts that may cause pain to other believers. I try to be a good human being.

I wish to remind that in my earlier posts I have written I have only one Guru in my life, that is my father who had initiated "Gayathri manthra" to me at the time of my Upanayanam. How ever, I respect all those who have done some thing or other to better the life of others.

I am not a knowledgeable or wise person. But I have an open mind to read books and writings on various subjects of interest that I come across. During my continuous search for knowledge I have come across many Mahathmas, Acharyas and leaders who have been doing great things silently in the cause of ameliorating the sufferings of less fortunate beings.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Respected Shri Brahmanyan,

I understand your post above, or at least I think I do. But as you might have seen in your life, it takes different types of people to make up this world; while some like you may give emphasis on avoiding the use of "strong words in my posts that may cause pain to other believers", even though they may not mind mildly rebuking plain speaking persons, some others like me feel that educating people so that they do not get beguiled by fake sadhus, swamis, babas and gurus, is a service. But I personally do not have any ill-will or hatred towards any of the gullible devotees of these so-called godmen; if at all, I have profound sympathy for them. I do not know whether that throws me out of the list of "good human beings".

May I know the famous persons among "many Mahathmas, Acharyas and leaders who have been doing great things silently in the cause of ameliorating the sufferings of less fortunate beings" which you have come across; i.e., those who are interested in publicity, those who rush at the first available opportunity to open an ashram or branch in the developed countries and then spend as much time as possible abroad? I also know a few sanyasis who lived and died in India and never asked for any publicity for whatever work they did and so are unknown outside a small circle.
 
Dear Harini,

But they also confuse that the India can foot all the expenses for its infrastructure requirement from its savings without needing a penny as FDI. For me a spent saving (here for infrastructure) will never be saving again. But unspent saving will lead only to the treasure troves. That is the reason our emphasis always is on Dhaanam and not on Saving traditionally. The saving habit is what is causing the trouble to us.

It appears the ideas are jumbled up here. I am not able to get what you are telling. Could you please elaborate?

The one thing that I have to say is that the SG do not have the right attitude to answer such questions for the image of unchallenged wise people is what is getting them their clients (in their private business)

Again not clear. Will you please explain more?

Cheers
 
Dear Sangom Sir,I hope you will not object to my participating in this conversation between you and Mr. Brahmanyan.
Respected Shri Brahmanyan,while some like you may give emphasis on avoiding the use of "strong words in my posts that may cause pain to other believers", even though they may not mind mildly rebuking plain speaking persons, some others like me feel that educating people so that they do not get beguiled by fake sadhus, swamis, babas and gurus, is a service. But I personally do not have any ill-will or hatred towards any of the gullible devotees of these so-called godmen; if at all, I have profound sympathy for them. I do not know whether that throws me out of the list of "good human beings".
You would have done a yeoman service to the "gullible" public by identifying fake babas, gurus, swamis and sadhus if you had shown any thing wrong done by these babas etc.,;But to rely on hearsay and innuendo to brand one as a fake is not a service. ;It boils down to this sir. ;Have you any personal experience with SS Baba? And if so please explain your experience in detail and tell us what made you come to the conclusion that he is a fake. An uploaded clip in Utube by some one is not adequate and final to prove SSB as fake. What harm did SSB do any of his devotee? On the other hand I can tell you a few good things he did. Like the multi speciality hospitals he has built and the Telugu Ganga Canal relaying work. I pray please give just one instance of his doing harm to any one. ;An encounter with a fake always leaves you with bitter memories which keep haunting you. I have not heard any one reporting such an experience. Because you have 'profound sympathy' for the 'gullible devotees' you should come out with your bitter experiences/encounters with this baba. Otherwise your 'profound sympathy' will be hollow.
May I know the famous persons among "many Mahathmas, Acharyas and leaders who have been doing great things silently in the cause of ameliorating the sufferings of less fortunate beings" which you have come across;
SS baba is himself ;such a famous leader/acharya who had been silently doing things to ameliorate the sufferings of Chennai citizens by relaying the linings of Telugu Ganga Canal. He did not look for publicity in doing it.The publicity came to him as the other noted person involved in accepting the helping hand as representative of people of Tamilnadu was a politician and was perhaps interested in publicity and the benefit that will accrue.
I also know a few sanyasis who lived and died in India and never asked for any publicity for whatever work they did and so are unknown outside a small circle.
It is good that you know such sanyasis. But then what is the yard stick you use to determine the fake and genuine because it appears 'your fakes' are also doing great services to the humanity!!
 
Last edited:
Dear folk,

Just like you I am eagerly waiting for the inputs on this from:
1. Mr. Sangom Sir
2. Mr. Nara.
3. Mr. Yamaka.

Cheers.

Dear Raju:

As you know very well, I have serious problem accepting Organized Religions and their Gods.. then, how will I accept any Godman?

My fil (a TB in his late 80s now) has been saying people, "This Sai Baba is a cheat...he is abusing his devotees, including women...at best he is a Magician or an Illutionist...not a wise man.. he encourages and supports Black money and Thieves".

I agree with him.

There are very many Magicians and David Copperfields in the world... please see the movie "Guzhaarish" (by Krithik Roshan and Ash) to know about their Magic!

Cheers.

ps. Now another Godman Swami Nithyananda is becoming very notorious for all his Magicals... watch out.
 
The SG is explained in this forum as Swadeshi Group and it also has a Brahmin face of an SG in Tamilnadu. SG says that it predicted economic melt down of US but adds that nothing will happen to India because of the Indian's propensity for saving. By saving they means the tendencies like dropping one part of the earning in to hundi kept near the portrait of the God in house to saving in the bank. By this they mean that the Indians do not over spend and so are contended with what they have. But they also confuse that the India can foot all the expenses for its infrastructure requirement from its savings without needing a penny as FDI. For me a spent saving (here for infrastructure) will never be saving again. But unspent saving will lead only to the treasure troves. That is the reason our emphasis always is on Dhaanam and not on Saving traditionally. The saving habit is what is causing the trouble to us.

In this context the Dharmam is only meant as Seitha Dharmam and it can only be Dhaanam.

The one thing that I have to say is that the SG do not have the right attitude to answer such questions for the image of unchallenged wise people is what is getting them their clients (in their private business)

I am neither Swadeshi nor Videshi Group. Thank you for your kind clarification. But I tend to agree with you that the reasons for India escaping the "financial meltdown" is more complex than the mere savings habit of Indians. I also agree that India cannot finance its infrastructure needs out of its own resources, as long as the honesty and sincerity-to-work levels of Indians continue to be what these are.

A spent saving will no longer be saving in the hands of the spender but can become saving in the hands of the very next person to whom the cash/money goes. May be you should brush up your books on monetary theory and behaviour of money.

If you try to trace our emphasis on தானம் (dāṉam) without any predilection, you will find that it can be traced to the purāṇas and a little further reading of the purāṇas will reveal that such emphasis was for ensuring that the brāhmaṇas got adequate incomes.

Dharma can be IMHO both seitha dharmam (dharma already done) as also செய்யவேண்டிய தர்மம் (dharma which ought to be done, in the present and future). I do not therefore clearly get the import of the last sentence viz., "In this context the Dharmam is only meant as Seitha Dharmam and it can only be Dhaanam."
 
Dear Sangom Sir,I hope you will not object to my participating in this conversation between you and Mr. Brahmanyan.You would have done a yeoman service to the "gullible" public by identifying fake babas, gurus, swamis and sadhus if you had shown any thing wrong done by these babas etc.,;But to rely on hearsay and innuendo to brand one as a fake is not a service. ;It boils down to this sir. ;Have you any personal experience with SS Baba? And if so please explain your experience in detail and tell us what made you come to the conclusion that he is a fake. An uploaded clip in Utube by some one is not adequate and final to prove SSB as fake. What harm did SSB do any of his devotee? On the other hand I can tell you a few good things he did. Like the multi speciality hospitals he has built and the Telugu Ganga Canal relaying work. I pray please give just one instance of his doing harm to any one. ;An encounter with a fake always leaves you with bitter memories which keep haunting you. I have not heard any one reporting such an experience. Because you have 'profound sympathy' for the 'gullible devotees' you should come out with your bitter experiences/encounters with this baba. Otherwise your 'profound sympathy' will be hollow.SS baba is himself ;such a famous leader/acharya who had been silently doing things to ameliorate the sufferings of Chennai citizens by relaying the linings of Telugu Ganga Canal. He did not look for publicity in doing it.The publicity came to him as the other noted person involved in accepting the helping hand as representative of people of Tamilnadu was a politician and was perhaps interested in publicity and the benefit that will accrue.It is good that you know such sanyasis. But then what is the yard stick you use to determine the fake and genuine because it appears 'your fakes' are also doing great services to the humanity!!

Shri Suraju,

I think our KRS has given a ruling in the past that if some conversation is going on between two members, a third one should not intrude. Perhaps this is a good ruling. Secondly, I regret to observe that I have found from past experience that discussions between the two of us almost always turn to become cantankerous, and end up in personal accusations; may be the problem is with both of us. I would therefore request you to exhort the members in general towards your pov instead of trying to discuss and prove my pov wrong.

My yardstick of an acceptable guru, or swamiji or Acharya is that he should belong to a known lineage of well-respected Acharyas; he should not invite publicity and project himself before large audiences and lastly, such Acharyas and Swamijis should confine themselves to teaching Hinduism of whatever sect their lineage belongs to (Like saivism, vaishnavism, etc.) The public service done, ameliorating the sufferings of people etc., cannot be the yardsticks for rating swamijis. Lastly, if any godman really has supernatural powers of apporting and materialising objects he/she should be ready to subject himself/herself to scientific tests to verify such powers. SSB did not accept such challenges and had always avoided it.

In case you reply to this, I may not further respond because I do not want to enter into any discussions.
 
i am not doubting the possibility of apporting gold coins by god men..

my worry is why just limit it to gold, why not try U-235 also?


rant and rave , shiv
 
A spent saving will no longer be saving in the hands of the spender but can become saving in the hands of the very next person to whom the cash/money goes. May be you should brush up your books on monetary theory and behaviour of money.

If you try to trace our emphasis on தானம் (dāṉam) without any predilection, you will find that it can be traced to the purāṇas and a little further reading of the purāṇas will reveal that such emphasis was for ensuring that the brāhmaṇas got adequate incomes.
An income to Brahman becomes an expense again if he has to incur it for performing Dhaanam for his/her Dharma. Please note that the traditional concept that I draw to your attention is not accumulating wealth with income.

Similarly the money spent for infrastructure leaves the county in many of the projects today in India and then the saving should be reflecting only in the other developed economies of the world. That may not matter you if you take a position that you are neither a Swadeshi nor a Videshi. But SG doesn't take that stand and so is the confusion.

செய்யவேண்டிய தர்மம் is to spend all your money that you earn if you are a MNC bred citizen of the world choosing to be neither Swadeshi nor Videshi. Take loan and spend if the income is not good enough. But to those who are Videshi to Videshis (I am also not committing me as Swadeshi!) of India then செய்யவேண்டிய தர்மம் is தர்மம் செய்தL!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest ads

Back
Top