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TALE OF TWO SISTERS..[ 1 ]..kk4646 [TVK]
- Thread starter kk4646
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C RAVI
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Very well said, dear Sir...
I am sure 99% of human population on this Earth is living, considering only the present life span.
All the pleasures, pains, expectations, hopes, love, compassion, needs, wants, helping, satisfaction, dejection, distress, demands, ego, sacrifices, love towards friendship, love towards life partner, love towards siblings, love towards parents, domestic commitments, official commitments, social commitments, spiritual practices, earning money, material fulfillment, emotional fulfillment, hunger, thirst, sense of security/protection etc..etc..etc.. are all considering the present life. That's the truth and that's the only truth in this physical world during one's life time in the present.
These alone makes the whole some life of satisfactions or dissatisfaction or combination of both; realizing, feeling and experiencing the present life time events.
Neither we remember the past birth Nor we could perfectly predict the future birth.
The present span of life is the present reality, for which we strive hard to live to the fullest and attempt towards achieving meaningful life, embracing our self and the others who participate in our life.
Living the present life of relationships, considering the Unknown past birth relationships and considering the Unknown future birth relationships would be similar to living the present life deceiving ours self and the others.
Only Gnyaanis/Mahaathmas/realized souls have the ultimate wisdom and knowledge beyond space and time. They live is Isolation, naturally giving true meaning to their realization. These are the true Gnyaanis/realized souls who don't mislead other souls towards their path and profess others on living the present reality with sense of true honesty to one's mind, body and heart, without deceiving the Self and without deceiving the others whom "you have included " in "your Self".
renuka
Well-known member
I am 100% sure Sebastian is real and not reel...cos how else will a இளிச்சவாய் Hindu like Savitri exist?
renuka
Well-known member
Dear sir,
I do live in the present but I would not want to think that this is all in life..to be loved etc.
Love feels true but in reality it's transient but that doesn't mean that we can not love someone deeply.
Love can be present without blind attachment.
"Love can be present without blind attachment."...
Yes..True but in my opinion attachement itself is a form of representation for love.. It can be of anything...parents-children,--man-woman,--even to pets....and love needs a feeling of attachement or liking on something...
TVK
tks
0
Sri TVK -
I got to browse this thread lately - Though I did not get time to read all of the postings of the story I really enjoyed snippets of what I read.
There is no such thing as true love if it is based on attachments. In fact true love to any being or object is not possible if one *needs* that being/object to feel full/complete. It is only when we realize that our true nature is whole and complete (and I have not realized that) it is possible to truly love another being.
All other love is selfish and self centered because the feelings evoked by the other person/being/pet/object makes us feel better and *complete* and is mistaken for love. Such love causes suffering..
Selfless love to even our children is not possible if it is based on attachment (meaning their presence needed to enhance our sense of well being).
With that said I tend to support Dr Renu's views in the recent posts. Her easy going style of posts in this thread actually communicate essence of teaching of universal truths .
C RAVI
0
Shri Tks,
Human survival is purely existing on "WANTS & NEEDS FOR THE SELF". The thing that fine tunes this foundation is,
"How much you give too?" & "To whom?". On these factors does revolves the human life of relationships.
The whole Human life depends on sense of attachment, bondage, love, liking etc in terms of Human interconnectedness and that of with Human-Pet relationship of liking and loving.
A woman looks for marriage with a man. For what?? Is that only to have safe and legal sex??? No, certainly not.
She marries a man to fulfill all her physical, mental, emotional requirements and lead a meaningful life. Why?? Coz that's her needs. The same is the case with Men.
These "needs and wants" of Men and Women are neither Universally False nor condemnable/laughable/illogical/non sense.
Based on these "needs and wants" there arises Loving/Liking a person and leads one towards accomplishing one's meaningful life with sense of dependability, trust, attachment, bondage, love/liking, commitments etc. towards each other.
We pet a Dog. Why?? Only to guard our home?? Certainly not. We pet Dog out of our liking towards Dog and having domesticated a Dog we offer our love and care to our pet. The pet too enjoys the relationship and offer its love and care towards us.
The Universal Truth of Human Survival is what that I have said above, IMHO.
When we live in this physical world, its our duty to obey the above Universal Truth of Human Survival. KARMA would be meaningful and blissful only if we fulfill our duties with out any sense of "I Am Doing Only Because I Have Been Made To Do Just Because I Opted To Marry A Person And Just Because I Had Children. What To Do?? Oh God, Help Me To Remain Detached With Them Because All Wants Me Only Because They Have Their Wants & Needs. Oh God, Help Me With This Selfish World. I wanna escape now because my needs and wants are enough after marrying a person and having children........"
Just because attachment can give sufferings in some of other way, it doesn't constitutes that True Love doesn't exist and that, the sense of attachment does not make any sense.
Parents love and attachment towards children need not to bring suffering to parents just because they don't have the presence of their grown up and independent children with them. It may just make parents feel more for their absence BUT does not make them hate their children and curse them.
It all just depends on different hues of perceptions of Men and Women, that makes them realize what is True Love. It is also depending upon different degree of self centered attitude and the level of appreciation and reciprocation/offerings towards the other, that can make one realize what is Love and what is Commitment.
When human survival is on the foundation of "WANTS & NEEDS", Love, Liking and Commitments are the mutual exchanges with sense of valuing and respecting the relationships (between humans and between humans and pets).
This physical world of Human Survival is meant for achieving Spiritual Growth For Which "WANTS & NEEDS" are the must. To see how you fulfill them (doing karma) and how you progress towards refinement and realizations. We have to achieve Spiritual Growth amidst the challenges by which Alone "You can show yourself, Who you are?"
Let us not give prominence to Spiritual Truth "by" devaluing the truth of Human survival as Humans with wants and needs. Let us help every other to fulfill their KARMA with natural and mutual exchanges.
Humans realization of Spiritual Truth will become Void with out realizations of and adherence to Universal Truth of Human Survival With Wants & Needs, with human interconnectedness
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renuka
Well-known member
Dear Ravi,
Very very true..and you know why?? One loves another for the sake of SELF.
Didnt Yajnavalkya say this to Maitreyi?
SELF here is not to be confused with being Selfish but rather identifying one's self with ones true innate nature which is actually Sat Chit Ananda.
We are all looking for the bliss part in our lives and we hang on to what gives us immense Bliss.
Actually to a certain extent we humans are selfish even in the best and purest of love.
Best of friends today become enemies tomorrow.
Husband and wife are happy today and divorce tomorrow.
Why?? becos they cease to make us happy.
So it all boils down to a dependency on happiness.
Have you noted even in Sanskrit poems for example Samkshepa Ramayan itself..the following description is always used..
Increases the happiness of Kausalya/Sumitra when describing Lord Rama and Lakshmana respectively.
“He is fit to be worshipped, treats every one as equals, always appears as lovable, increases the happiness of Kausalya and is one with all good qualities.” 16
“It seems that Lakshmana who is humility personified, who increases the happiness of Sumithra, who is a dear brother, and who does good to his brother, exhibiting affection towards his brother, accompanied his brother who was going to the forest.” 24
Even for Lord Krishna the stanza goes Devaki Paramanandam Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum.
So the meaning is enhancing one's happiness as in this case increasing manifold the happiness of their mothers.
Happiness is enhanced by the mere presence or action of a loved one.
External factors enhancing the feeling of love is called True but transient love.
The day we realize that what we have been searching for is actually present internally that's the day we will realize True Love and start radiating it to everyone without the feeling of Mine and Thine.
Till then every love is tainted with some amount of attachment and personal gain.
I have a small doubt...it may be due to the reason that I am ignorant of our Puranas..Ithikasas etc... and 'Aanmigam'...is not 'my cup of tea'...
"Are our puranas and all other things are to be taken as WAY OF LIFE even to-day or they are just guidence for better understanding of society...??''
TVK
renuka
Well-known member
Dear sir,
You know Puranas, scriptures etc reveal to us the core of the reason of our existence.
It's more than a guide its a remedy for the ills of existence.
That's why you should not have had the episode of Savitri trying to convert! ha ha ha.
You should have some episodes on Puranas,religion etc to enhance the happiness of readers here especially the reader named Renuka!!LOL
BTW you say you are ignorant of our scriptures but you wrote about conversion???LOL
Funny guy you are.
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C RAVI
0
Dear Renuka,
You are talking on spiritual sense. If the thread/topic in hand is all revolving around spirituality, I would add more to your thoughts in line with your views and opinions. The spiritual/puranas reference can help one who got deluded with pains and disappointments out of one's wants and needs as a humans, as per one's Karma/Destiny.
As a reply to your above post #308, let me, quote the most relevant part of my previous post #307, that can show you what way I agree with you and what else I am conveying, other than what I am willing to add at the end.
Dear Renuka,
True love makes true sense when there exist "Mutual" True Love between the two. True love do exists when Love is not just about physical satisfaction.
Even if True love is not mutually exchanged, the person who hold on true love would not be flawed with his/her sense of love. At the most he/she would be disappointed, some way.
Most importantly, its the sense of attachment, commitments, responsibilities, respect, trust and bondage that keeps human relationship and human's heart & mind intact. And such positive attitude and perceptions is not possible unless one has a sort of Love/Liking/Acceptance towards the other.
And unless one be true to such human senses one can not define and refine one self.
Let us highlight the universal truth of mere human survival, amidst the crowd of humans with agreeable, acceptable and reasonable wants and needs.
Let us leave the Spiritual Philosophies aside that is not under the purview of all common folks, who can't resist them selves from enjoying the charm of human relationships.
Let us not profess something which we our self are not following, having desires of life, having married, or looking for marriage, looking of career growth and all fulfillment. All for personal gains & share the gains and all such gains make absolute Sense, no matter if it is transient or not. We are determined to live the present to the fullest, understanding, realizing and accepting the present span of life within space and time constrains!!!!
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Ha..Ha..Is there anything in our scriptures that conversions are prohibited..?.. But I am not able understand... why I should write something on Puranas...when so many episodes are available to enhance the knowldge of people like Renuka madam..? I am yet come across anyone who follows our puranas as their 'way of life' to-day...
If I quote it in lighter vain is their any Doctor who prescribe medicines as per Dhanvanthri and other great scholars...?...When people gets change in anything and everything ...is their anyone who proudly says I am a strict follower of our treasures [such as our great epics] even to-day...
""You know Puranas, scriptures etc reveal to us the core of the reason of our existence.
It's more than a guide its a remedy for the ills of existence.""...
Yes this may be true [ I am not competent talk much about this ]... But are we able to follow and do things as these Puranas & scriptures...?..It may a wish but in practice ..not possible... in present world ....
"I am the thread that runs through all these pearls," and each pearl is a religion or even a sect thereof. Such are the different pearls, and God is the thread that runs through all of them; most people, however, are entirely unconscious of it.""...
" SWAMY VIVEKAANANDA "........Is He wrong and only our Scriptures are right...?
TVK
renuka
Well-known member
Hey my dear,
Off course many of us do follow what Puranas and scriptures say for example majority of us speak the truth and lead dharmic lives.
Sathyam Vada and Dharmam Cara.
And you know I like the Polyandry/Polygamy part of the Mahabharat and the Puranas and just hope that one day polyandry and polygamy will be legalized!!
See if Polyandry and Polygamy was legal your whole story would have had a happy ending.
Savitri could have married Sebastian(without conversion) and Krish.
Raji could have married Krish and Ram..see how easy it would have been??
I would not want to PROUDLY acclaim that I strictly follow whatever religion dictates cos PRIDE is one of the enemy of man(Hey see I am still following religion)
I do not like to use the word PROUD to be this or PROUD to be that cos with PRIDE comes PREJUDICE.
Anyway what have we humans actually achieved so much that we can proudly acclaim anything?
Do not think that its not possible to be dharmic in this present world.Everyone says its not possible to be good and sincere in this present world and goes along with the flow of adharma.
Who makes up the present world?
We ourselves make up the world.
Whatever said and done..no matter how hard it seems in this world Satyam Eva Jayate never goes out of fashion.
Dharmo Rakshati Rakshita....so don't worry,nothing can really go wrong.
BTW in our scriptures the topic of conversion didnt come up cos that time only Sanathana Dharma existed in its various forms.
Any school of thought was called "Matam" meaning "I think or my opinion"
Yes you are right about God being the thread which runs through the pearls but one should understand that all pearls are equal and only then we can wear a necklace..tell me if one person thinks his pearls is better to anothers how on earth can we string a necklace?
So that is conversion..one thinks one religion is better than another's and feel that one can only be "saved" if one follows only one path and the rest rot in hell.
When we convert that means we acknowledge that there is more than ONE hence the choice to denounce and to convert.
So that itself goes againts the understanding of EKAM EVA ADVAITAM BRAHMAN.
So for me if you ask me..just follow one's own religion without conversion.
See you guys later have to go out today..So I will be back soon for another sermon of Tale of Two Sisters(the untold version)!!LOL
Just to add..following Puranas does not mean that we do not progress in time.
Travelling was by chariots those days but now we travel by car.
Is it wrong to go by car?
No cos the underlying principle remains the same..Locomotion..moving from one place to another.
We have to follow the essence of the Puranas and not just rewind and replay scenes from the past.
The goblet in which the Essence is placed might change but the Essence remains the same.
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tks
0
Sri Ravi -
Some comments below..
Some comments below..
Rest of your statements are based on your assumptions and hence I will not debate them .. Peace
C RAVI
0
Shri Tks,
Thanks for your feedback...
Shri Tks, and dear Renuka,
If we dwell deep into what is human life , what's the purpose of the soul, who is "SELF" and what for is this "SELF", what the "SELF" wants and what only should the "SELF" achieve, what is transient and what is not, what is space and time bound and what is beyond them etc..etc.., there can be many many detailed elaboration with reference to spiritual philosophy, scriptures, puranas etc..etc.
Even these Hindu Religious scriptural reference are vivid and contradictory in terms of defining the Super Natural Agencies.
All my attempts towards counter argue with dear Renuka is, to emphasize the facts that -
1) The charm of human life lies on the inbuilt natural tendencies and basic instincts.
2) The charm of human life depends on how you deal with others and how others deal with you.
3) The charm of human life depends on how you value relationships and how much are you determined to be true to your sense of valuing relationships.
4) The true meaning of human life with human interconnectedness makes sense only if each human values the emotions and feelings of the other human.
5) The life through out the span of survival with human inter dependencies depends on how you accept the other as how the other is and to what extent you are been accepted as you are, in return.
The human life and human relationships across the glob revolves around the above 5 factors, irrespective of to which belief system they belong to.
As such, ignoring the significance of the above factors, while living this present life, in consideration of the past and future phenomena of the soul that none of us ever could know well assertively in this present life span, would simply lead us to the following -
1) Deceiving our self and the others.
2) Losing the charm of the "SELF" in the present life
3) Fooling our self by considering the unknown past life and future life relationships and falsely accepting that the present life and its relationships has no value.
4) Thinking that, when everything is transient, than why to be serious of the present life events that we share in our relationships.
5) Be robotic and live the life as per one's whims and fancy, ignoring the feelings of other humans.
So, all I am saying to dear Renuka is, Live the life just as a human, giving significance to the present life and personal relationships. Can still be inclined to spirituality. In a more focused manner as how Renuka feels, in old age when all her responsibilities are over and she will keep blessing the others.
Off course, all the religious/spiritual talk about realization of soul; birth-death-rebirth of soul; the real true love towards the Brahman, that's unconditional; everything is transient so no need to be worried; relationships of the present live are not to make the absolute sense out of it for the SELF etc..etc..Can help a lot to the souls that are experiencing pains and suffering out of the present life human interconnectedness, as per souls karma/destiny.
Thanks for your feedback...
Shri Tks, and dear Renuka,
If we dwell deep into what is human life , what's the purpose of the soul, who is "SELF" and what for is this "SELF", what the "SELF" wants and what only should the "SELF" achieve, what is transient and what is not, what is space and time bound and what is beyond them etc..etc.., there can be many many detailed elaboration with reference to spiritual philosophy, scriptures, puranas etc..etc.
Even these Hindu Religious scriptural reference are vivid and contradictory in terms of defining the Super Natural Agencies.
All my attempts towards counter argue with dear Renuka is, to emphasize the facts that -
1) The charm of human life lies on the inbuilt natural tendencies and basic instincts.
2) The charm of human life depends on how you deal with others and how others deal with you.
3) The charm of human life depends on how you value relationships and how much are you determined to be true to your sense of valuing relationships.
4) The true meaning of human life with human interconnectedness makes sense only if each human values the emotions and feelings of the other human.
5) The life through out the span of survival with human inter dependencies depends on how you accept the other as how the other is and to what extent you are been accepted as you are, in return.
The human life and human relationships across the glob revolves around the above 5 factors, irrespective of to which belief system they belong to.
As such, ignoring the significance of the above factors, while living this present life, in consideration of the past and future phenomena of the soul that none of us ever could know well assertively in this present life span, would simply lead us to the following -
1) Deceiving our self and the others.
2) Losing the charm of the "SELF" in the present life
3) Fooling our self by considering the unknown past life and future life relationships and falsely accepting that the present life and its relationships has no value.
4) Thinking that, when everything is transient, than why to be serious of the present life events that we share in our relationships.
5) Be robotic and live the life as per one's whims and fancy, ignoring the feelings of other humans.
So, all I am saying to dear Renuka is, Live the life just as a human, giving significance to the present life and personal relationships. Can still be inclined to spirituality. In a more focused manner as how Renuka feels, in old age when all her responsibilities are over and she will keep blessing the others.
Off course, all the religious/spiritual talk about realization of soul; birth-death-rebirth of soul; the real true love towards the Brahman, that's unconditional; everything is transient so no need to be worried; relationships of the present live are not to make the absolute sense out of it for the SELF etc..etc..Can help a lot to the souls that are experiencing pains and suffering out of the present life human interconnectedness, as per souls karma/destiny.
renuka
Well-known member
My dear Ravi,
I wonder what on earth gives you the impression that I DO NOT give significance to present life and personal relationships.
You know last month I was in my car and my husband was driving and we were talking and he accidently drove over a huge iguana and it died.
I cried non stop for half and hour thinking may be I was talking and that distracted my husband and he didnt see it suddenly dart across the road.
I have spent one whole night crying when a Korean man was beheaded by Al Qaeda and my husband was asking me why on earth are you crying for someone you dont even know.
I felt bad that I was happily alive at home when someone else was getting his head cut slowly by a knife.
As a doc I know how painful that is.
I even wrote a letter that very night and placed in on the altar ..a letter to God asking Him to do something about the Adharma in the world.
I even prayed to God to remove all the Korean's man pain so that he doesn't suffer too much.
If you think that's not giving importance to present life..I dont know what else I can say.
I do not feel too attached to anything but I can feel pain for others.
I am not selfish and think of myself and my family only.
P.S I am not writing all these to brag that I am kind and compassionate but to give you a slight idea of how my mind functions.
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C RAVI
0
Dear Renuka,
I know about you. I didn't say you are selfish and thinks about yourself alone.
My post #315, and the other few previous ones were all based on the following -
1) You said, there exists no True Love other than Love to GOD
2) You said, SELF is predominant in Humans and no one do anything against the SELF SATISFACTION to please others. If they do that again amounts to Satisfying the SELF.
3) You said, SELF can be blissful only if the SELF is in all praise and in all dedication towards GOD AND not on any one else. Your expressions were indicating clearly that, as if, no human on this earth do sacrifice to see the others happy (including spouse).
4) You said all is transient. You don't fancy about your marriage and relationships in this present life of yours, because you might have had many marriages/tying knots/relationships in previous birth and may have many in future birth. So, this present life's tying knot/marriage/relationship is not something to feel great about.
5) You said, how in puranas the meaning and purpose of "SELF" has been emphasized to make one understand that there is nothing that is against the SELF in human relationship, in this land of survival.
6) You gave the impression that, this present life is not all about the whole some life of the soul and the relationships and the event in this life time that you experience has no actual significance. (But what I personally would say and said is - You are right, but its only on deepest spiritual plane where a pained soul has to live in peace without doing anything bad.)
My posts were all based on all the above stuffs of yours. Not assuming myself that you are not kind and compassionate. Not concluding that you don't emotionally go down on seeing cruelty around you etc..etc.
Hope this clarifies.....
I have decided to post the REAL ..tomorrow.... Let there be some more FUEL to FIRE..!!
TVK
renuka
Well-known member
Dear sir,
You know why this happened?
Cos we were waiting for the next episode of your MEGA Serial and we were having a commercial break!!LOL
tks
0
Sri Ravi -
Just few comments .. Anyway let us get back to the entertaining stories told by a great story teller of our forum
Just few comments .. Anyway let us get back to the entertaining stories told by a great story teller of our forum
Shri Tks,
Thanks for your feedback...
Shri Tks, and dear Renuka,
There is nothing called soul - that is a biblical concept ..
Truth does not come in many flavors .. apparent contradiction is actually a reflection of our own understanding, training, maturity.
Gaining true knowledge - even attempts at this - does not negate any of the above experiences..Actually it only enhances the experience. In fact 'true love' is a just a romantic idea at best unless our relationship to any being is without an agenda. All relationships tend to have an (unconscious) agenda even if such an agenda is not purposeful.
This conclusion is impossible but is possible with incorrect interpretation and understanding of what our scriptures teach us about the truth of us.
So, all I am saying to dear Renuka is, Live the life just as a human, giving significance to the present life and personal relationships. Can still be inclined to spirituality. In a more focused manner as how Renuka feels, in old age when all her responsibilities are over and she will keep blessing the others.
Off course, all the religious/spiritual talk about realization of soul; birth-death-rebirth of soul; the real true love towards the Brahman, that's unconditional; everything is transient so no need to be worried; relationships of the present live are not to make the absolute sense out of it for the SELF etc..etc..Can help a lot to the souls that are experiencing pains and suffering out of the present life human interconnectedness, as per souls karma/destiny.
Ha..Ha.. So you want to reduce the membership in this site... !!..Already No. of people might have stopped reading... !!
TVK
renuka
Well-known member
No I dont want to reduce traffic this site but just prompting you to post your next episode fast!!
I will be posting the real.. Tale of two sisters in few minutes... You will get enough to munch..!!
TVK
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