The gothram of a child

[Raji Ram]

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Something to prove that love is trust and trust is life!

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A plane was flying through the clouds. Suddenly it lost the balance!

Everyone started shouting in fear.

But a small boy kept playing with his toy.

After an hour the flight was landed safely!

A man asked the boy, "How could you play with your toy when everyone was afraid?"

The boy smiled and said, "My dad is the pilot.I knew he will land me safely."

Love is trust,Trust is life. :high5:

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Source: Love is trust,Trust is life | FaadooIndia - Fun All Around!

 

[sarang]

perhaps some pockets may survive. If shariat islam and non catholic christianity rule the world, then those rules must be followed. Triple talak, ritual slitting of goat and 'your children and my children are playing in the street; we must produce our children to keep them out' will be an acceptable order of the day.

Egyptian and mayan civilizations were destroyed by outsiders; it will be a shame if hindu civilization is eaten by insiders.

If parents give up hope and denigrate our values, what can one say?

hi
nice to hear these words...IDEALISM ALWAYS GOOD...BUT REALITY IS VERY DIFFERENT....NEXTGEN IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT...

after some years...gothram will go away...many sagotra marriages going to be happen....many icm will happen..gothram just fade

away....

 

[sarang]

The rituals are for the benefit of all - doer, family, society, ancestors and descendants.

post9 #
all should keep it mind that doing surya namaskaram after we became blind is useless.we elders said that we should our agriculture activities according to seasons ,
கண் கெட்ட பின் சூர்ய நமஸ்காரமும் காலத்தில் செய்யாத பயிரும் வீண் .it is also like showing torch to blind horse .the torch will not give benefit to the horse ,but useful to passerby.
குருட்டு குதிரைக்கு தீவட்டி உபயோகமில்லை ஆனால் எத்ரில் வருபவனுக்கு பயன் .அது போல பேருக்கு சடங்கு செய்வது அவனுக்கு பிரயோசனம் இல்லை .அந்த சடங்கை நடத்தி தருபவருக்கும் பங்கு பெறுவர்களுக்கு மட்டும் தான்
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

post 43 #
இஷ்டப்பட்டு கஷ்டப்பட்டு நடப்பது தான்திருமண வாழ்க்கை .பிற்காலத்தில் அது தான் சந்தோஷம் தரும் .நாம் உழைக்காமல் எதுவும் சுலபமாக கிடைக்காது .
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear sarang !
i am also agree with
"The rituals are for the benefit of all - doer, family, society, ancestors and descendants."
but it will have meaning only when it is done with devotion and not for name sake to praise from others. பெண் மாதாந்தர விலக்கு நின்றபின் திருமணத்தால் என்ன உபயோகம் ?
once again they have go medical help /sargote mother
guruvayurappan

 

[prasad1]

I repeat:

The world is changing and we have to accept whatever others do.
Best way to live in eace: and be is to :tape: !

Mrs. RR.
You said it correctly. Culture is always evolving. That is why you see variations from village to village. Traditions change from time to time as well. That is the way of keeping in contact with our ever expanding family. If we start imposing age old practices, without valid reasons, we will be isolated, and die lonely.

 

[suraju06]

I repeat:

The world is changing and we have to accept whatever others do.
Best way to live in eace: and be is to :tape: !

I repeat:

World is changing some time for the better and some time for the worse. We have to accept what others have accepted after evaluating the need for the change. Best way to live in the world is not to cut our roots and drift as it is easy to do. It is better to keep our roots in tact and float in thecurrent of flood waters of change so that we do not ultimately reach hostile philistine waters.

 

[sarang]

Every body says it is impossible to do business in india without giving bribes. Ratan tata, in a tv interview after the radia tape expose, said: I have not given a single rupee as bribe.

Which statement is correct? Ratan (as radia calls him in the telecon) is swimming against the current or flows with the current without getting his fingers wet. And he gave pats and kudos to spectrum raja.

I repeat:

The world is changing and we have to accept whatever others do.
Best way to live in eace: and be is to :tape: !

 

[renuka]

May be you are too pessimistic. There were many such dark periods (e.g. kalapirar in tamilnadu). Let us hope that krishna will keep his word and take avatar again whe the 'glani' becomes acute and threatens to drown dharma.

There are some, young and old, who are serious and sincere in anushtanams. They have not fallen below the replacement level, so still there is some hope.

Glanir Bhavati Bharata??

I think there are many real serious matters that the avatar is more concerned about.

Just observe this stanza:

Paritranaya sadhunam vinashaya cha dushkritam.
Dharma sansthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge.

(Gita 4:8)
​

For the up-liftment of the good and virtuous,
For the destruction of evil,
For the re-establishment of the natural law,
I will come, in every age

So what is the definition of Sadhunaam?

The Avatar was obviously only talking about Gunas here.

 

[suraju06]

,

hi
nice to hear these words...IDEALISM ALWAYS GOOD...BUT REALITY IS VERY DIFFERENT....NEXTGEN IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT...

after some years...gothram will go away...many sagotra marriages going to be happen....many icm will happen..gothram just fade

away....

About a 100 years back in my remote village in the southern district of Tirunelvely they used to celebrate every year during navratri a special utsav. They used to make out of clay the doll of a cow and a calf. The cow and calf was kept in one of the houses in the village. In front of the cow paddy and other grains were sown in a small flat earthern utensil and were meticulously fed with water so that they will germinate and grow. Every day in the evening the women in the village will assemble in front of the house and after worshipping the Gomatha will sing and dance(கும்மியடித்து) around a lamp (kuththuvilakku) singing songs. Something akin to the garbo celebrations in Gujarat-if you have witnessed it. After 10 days of celebrations, the cow and the calf will be taken in a grand procession with the accompaniment of Nadaswaram and thavil, to the paddy fields lying in the north of the village and left in the midst of a chosen field so that when the Aippasi (north east monsoon) rains pour down the cow and calf becomes one with the soil. My great grand mother has left behind handwritten Tamil songs written on one side of a paper, which is so old that it breaks when you take it in your hand. The other side of the paper carries a marriage invitation of someone.. One song goes like this "கலிகாலம் முத்திப்போச்சு, உலகில் காட்சியெல்லாம் மாறிப்போச்சு.....etc., etc., It goes on to rue many things which were happening in the society of that time. The redeeming part of it is that even today that song can be sung and many amongst us can relate to it. We have come a long way from the குடுமி முடிச்சு (tuft) and the nine cubit saree but certainly slowly after evaluating the need for the changes. And 100 years is not a small window of time. So:

Even after some years some things will never go away. Gothram will never go away. Marriage within the caste will not be given a go by. poonool will not become a thing of past. All this because Gothram does not harm you and helps in sustaining the health of the society, marriage within the caste is least problematic even in the midst of material prosperity, poonool gives a unique identity etc., etc.,

This is not the idealism of an islander. It is fact of the world as recorded by that grand old lady 100 years back because she ended her song with the hope that God will always give necessary balance of mind to individuals to accept only what suits our society.

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

Every body says it is impossible to do business in india without giving bribes. Ratan tata, in a tv interview after the radia tape expose, said: I have not given a single rupee as bribe.

Which statement is correct? Ratan (as radia calls him in the telecon) is swimming against the current or flows with the current without getting his fingers wet. And he gave pats and kudos to spectrum raja.

What a stretch. No relation to the thread:focus:

 

[sarang]

This was in response to some observation srimathi RR in #45. In your exuberance to find faults or call names you miss a lot!

You are welcome to keep swinging your sword. I will get back to content posting, even if it is not palatable to you.

jai sri ram.

What a stretch. No relation to the thread:focus:

 

[prasad1]

This was in response to some observation srimathi RR in #45. In your exuberance to find faults or call names you miss a lot!

You are welcome to keep swinging your sword. I will get back to content posting, even if it is not palatable to you.

jai sri ram.

Please do not drag Ms. Raji Ram into this. Her post was to the point in the context of the thread. Your post was totally unrelated. Just because you have your jalara party agreeing with you does not make it in the context.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Lot of supermen have been telling the descendant Brahmins to give up hypocrisy so that the West will be pleased with us. Funny they do not consider themselves hypocrites. These people will be votaries of Heritage sites, campaigners to preserve nature, environment, and wild life which can include us kind. Maybe we are not Vashishtas, Vishwamitras, Angirasa, Ambarishas. There are people like me who, IMHO, are doing better their our parents or even grand parents to be more Brahmin-like. As long as it goes would it all hurt these men. Shri C. Ravi rightly said after Poonal cermony, say after or before school, the boy might throw it in rubbish without telling "upaveedhim binna dantum jeernam kasmala dooshitam visrujami......" But it is also true PIO in the US turning 50, evince interest to know their gotram, details of all the 16 rituals or so. Who prompted them. May be Julia Roberts, Steeve Jobs and the likes. Well, who is a hypocrite is a moot point to educate oneself.

 

[sarang]

Police, gatekeeper and spokesperson - multitasking and multi responsibilities - amazing mix of roles.
My every post is related to the topic or a response to some observation. If it is not understood and explanation is needed, same will be given to the right person.

Please do not drag Ms. Raji Ram into this. Her post was to the point in the context of the thread. Your post was totally unrelated. Just because you have your jalara party agreeing with you does not make it in the context.

 

[C RAVI]

Lot of supermen have been telling the descendant Brahmins to give up hypocrisy so that the West will be pleased with us. Funny they do not consider themselves hypocrites. These people will be votaries of Heritage sites, campaigners to preserve nature, environment, and wild life which can include us kind. Maybe we are not Vashishtas, Vishwamitras, Angirasa, Ambarishas. There are people like me who, IMHO, are doing better their our parents or even grand parents to be more Brahmin-like. As long as it goes would it all hurt these men. Shri C. Ravi rightly said after Poonal cermony, say after or before school, the boy might throw it in rubbish without telling "upaveedhim binna dantum jeernam kasmala dooshitam visrujami......" But it is also true PIO in the US turning 50, evince interest to know their gotram, details of all the 16 rituals or so. Who prompted them. May be Julia Roberts, Steeve Jobs and the likes. Well, who is a hypocrite is a moot point to educate oneself.

:yo:

 

[C RAVI]

Raghy in #34:



With the same assumptions, the way the mother manipulated everything-a helpless anglo-saxon sperm, artificial insemination, rahu kalam for upanayanam, an upanayanam conducted by “Iyengars” with sudarshana homam to boot, with many invitees etc., just to prove a point to some one, deserves a critical assessment.



People here are not judgmental about the mother. It was not an ordinary upanayanam of an ordinary child. Because of and only because of the mother’s background the child became a special child and its upanayanam also became a special one. Here the mother, her actions and the child are inseparable.



More acceptive of what? Acceptive of relentless attacks to wipe out? Acceptive of the persistent demand to forget glorious traditions and culture and take inferior and harmful “glittering cellophane packed” modern values? You may not ‘know’ the tradition and so you may not be a traditionalist. But that does not give you the freedom to call traditionalists stupid. The so called traditionalists are ready to wait indefinitely until you understand traditions and take a view.



Which caste is claiming such a privilege?


Yes with just one correction. …..nicely without any judgment where judgement is not called for, it would be………….

:clap2:

 

[C RAVI]

TKS in #32:



I think people here have given only their views on the basis of the facts as they were presented. They were only trying to interpret the data given. We need not call it being judgmental. Rather to say that “what came across as narrow minded and extreme judgement of the mother” is being judgmental about the people here. Members here do not know the mother or her character and so can have nothing against her.

.

Being a birth-based Brahmin only means that you are endowed with the raw material. How you make use of it to produce an end product depends on you, your circumstances, your surroundings, your food, your acquired value system and your society. So whom do we blame?



Do you seriously think this is what a true guna Brahmin ought to do?



Yes. who is bothered. But the way a mother manipulated every one-- from the donor’s sperm to the Iyengars who did the homam to the crowd of invitees to the upanayanam-- deserves a critical appraisal and that is what is done here I think.



Tks in #37:



Yes the label was designed by the invader. But the basic entity identified by that label was already existing for centuties.



If being aware of one’s heritage and culture means being egotistic, yes.

:yo:

 

[tbs]

,

About a 100 years back in my remote village in the southern district of Tirunelvely they used to celebrate every year during navratri a special utsav. They used to make out of clay the doll of a cow and a calf. The cow and calf was kept in one of the houses in the village. In front of the cow paddy and other grains were sown in a small flat earthern utensil and were meticulously fed with water so that they will germinate and grow. Every day in the evening the women in the village will assemble in front of the house and after worshipping the Gomatha will sing and dance(கும்மியடித்து) around a lamp (kuththuvilakku) singing songs. Something akin to the garbo celebrations in Gujarat-if you have witnessed it. After 10 days of celebrations, the cow and the calf will be taken in a grand procession with the accompaniment of Nadaswaram and thavil, to the paddy fields lying in the north of the village and left in the midst of a chosen field so that when the Aippasi (north east monsoon) rains pour down the cow and calf becomes one with the soil. My great grand mother has left behind handwritten Tamil songs written on one side of a paper, which is so old that it breaks when you take it in your hand. The other side of the paper carries a marriage invitation of someone.. One song goes like this "கலிகாலம் முத்திப்போச்சு, உலகில் காட்சியெல்லாம் மாறிப்போச்சு.....etc., etc., It goes on to rue many things which were happening in the society of that time. The redeeming part of it is that even today that song can be sung and many amongst us can relate to it. We have come a long way from the குடுமி முடிச்சு (tuft) and the nine cubit saree but certainly slowly after evaluating the need for the changes. And 100 years is not a small window of time. So:

Even after some years some things will never go away. Gothram will never go away. Marriage within the caste will not be given a go by. poonool will not become a thing of past. All this because Gothram does not harm you and helps in sustaining the health of the society, marriage within the caste is least problematic even in the midst of material prosperity, poonool gives a unique identity etc., etc.,

This is not the idealism of an islander. It is fact of the world as recorded by that grand old lady 100 years back because she ended her song with the hope that God will always give necessary balance of mind to individuals to accept only what suits our society.

Cheers.

hi
i agreed with u in some way....i tried to keep my tradition my own way....just....MY SON'S NAME IS BHARADWAJ ...i did not

keep any god's or my grandparents name...generally we do..my name is with my agraharam name/grand father's name/and

my original name..very big name...everybody asked why bharadwaj name...i said at least he can remember his gothra

when he grown up in USA....its my gothra rishi's name....not my kula daivam/family elders name....even my wife/mother does not

like BHARADWAJ name...so they put another name...just day to day name...i may be wrong...but i like my gothra...

 

[tbs]

hi
just see any matrimonial add now a days....SUBSECT NO BAR...GOTHRAM NO BAR....IYER/IYENGAR OK...like that...

 

[suraju06]

hi
just see any matrimonial add now a days....SUBSECT NO BAR...GOTHRAM NO BAR....IYER/IYENGAR OK...like that...

i looked up The Hindu of last Sunday. out of a hundred I could count only two ads with those words. One tree does not make a forest (தனி மரம் தோப்பாகாது). Also please note SUBSECTS NO BAR AND IYER/IYENGAR OK is not equal to ICM. I did not find a single ad with the words GOTHRAM NO BAR. Take a look. Cheers.

 

[tks]

TKS in #32:

I think people here have given only their views on the basis of the facts as they were presented. They were only trying to interpret the data given. We need not call it being judgmental. Rather to say that “what came across as narrow minded and extreme judgement of the mother” is being judgmental about the people here. Members here do not know the mother or her character and so can have nothing against her.

Sri Raju - Thanks for commenting on my comments. You are usually thoughtful in your posts and hence I would like to engage you in this discussion.


Yes, my judgement is not about the people but the thoughts expressed. I do not know anyone to pass judgement of the persons, and I dont care to judge anyone. The data given was about a woman who got divorced, sought to get a child without a man which is possible these days, and tried to indulge in some 'Hindu culture/tradition' like most Hindu families do in USA and in India. It is all a show for most part anyway. So she did what everyone else does.

The real question to you is 1. Do you blame her for the divorce?

2. Because of the divorce should she be deprived of conceiving a child and raising a child? I am sure her boy gave her immense joy and if such a possibility exist and available do you see that it is wrong to do so? If she should be deprived, why? Why would you care?

3. If the lady chose an white man's sperm - is that a big deal? I cannot imagine a TB lining up to make a donation. Why do you care if she conceived a baby of a white man's sperm? In what way it is a manipulation? It is like a medical procedure. If the procedure is available to resolve an issue why not take advantage?

4. In what way her conduct of the function any worse than many TBs. Not long ago I attended one such function of a TB family of busy Doctors. The Sastrigal who did the function comes to our house too and is educated in Gurukulam in Kumbakonam. He knew that the function is a show since he was told to do this in 1 hour and 15 minutes. It was a in a fancy hotel and the homam was a joke. It was the smallest homam and would have made some record. He knew he was getting a good fees and though his heart was against conducting this function he has a family to feed. The main function was the meal. So there is no manipulation involved - there are willing priests who are freelancing available to conduct any function anywhere. Why do you think this woman in the story did any manipulation - she simply availed of the services offered.

Being a birth-based Brahmin only means that you are endowed with the raw material. How you make use of it to produce an end product depends on you, your circumstances, your surroundings, your food, your acquired value system and your society. So whom do we blame?

Birth based Brahmin does not endow with any special raw material. I do not even know what raw material you are referring to. If a household is sincere in following traditions while being Satvic in outlook and hence also a family of Guna brahmanas then the tradition, family values provides an immense opportunity for one to develop interests that may lead to study of Vedas and hence seek truth & eventually understand Isvara. The raw material of the body is no different than that of anyone else in the world.

Do you seriously think this is what a true guna Brahmin ought to do?

In the example of the Seattle woman I referred to I thought she exhibited a sense of compassion for all beings. She had made effort and succeeded in becoming a Vegetarian for all the right reasons. By studying and understanding the Moksha Sastras she may one day be able to teach and interpret. She is Satvic. What Guna Brahmin out to do is described in Bhagavad Gita well and so I won't repeat that here.
In any case I sincerely think that the degree of compassion for all beings and ability to lead a conflict free (Dharmic) life is a hallmark of true education of our Sastras. By that measure this woman in my view is aspiring to be a Guna Brahmana.

Is it possible to say the same about some of the thoughts expressed here? I leave you to answer that..

Yes. who is bothered. But the way a mother manipulated every one-- from the donor’s sperm to the Iyengars who did the homam to the crowd of invitees to the upanayanam-- deserves a critical appraisal and that is what is done here I think.

I am not sure I even understand what manipulation mean anymore. All these services are available for asking and for paying a nominal fee.

 

[renuka]

Birth based Brahmin does not endow with any special raw material. I do not even know what raw material you are referring to.

I too was wondering yesterday what was actually meant by Raw Material?

I feel since these days almost every caste has left their traditional professions I guess it is the person who makes the extra effort of understanding the Truth and human values is the person who has made use of the "Raw Material" of spirituality that God has endowed each and everyone of us.

 

[Raji Ram]

.. just see any matrimonial add now a days....SUBSECT NO BAR...GOTHRAM NO BAR....IYER/IYENGAR OK...like that...

Dear TBS Sir,

In matrimonial ads, we can see even 'caste no bar' but no one dares to mention 'GOthram no bar'! But when they

search in the matrimony sites and get some excellent profiles in the same gOthram, they talk to the families and

if both the families do not have any objection, they finalise the wedding. We have seen a few sagOthram weddings

in our extended family circle and all are blessed with lovely children. I have heard that if seven generations of the

two families (does anyone really know???) of the same gOthram do not have common persons, then the wedding is

very much acceptable!

 

[tbs]

Dear TBS Sir,

In matrimonial ads, we can see even 'caste no bar' but no one dares to mention 'GOthram no bar'! But when they

search in the matrimony sites and get some excellent profiles in the same gOthram, they talk to the families and

if both the families do not have any objection, they finalise the wedding. We have seen a few sagOthram weddings

in our extended family circle and all are blessed with lovely children. I have heard that if seven generations of the

two families (does anyone really know???) of the same gOthram do not have common persons, then the wedding is

very much acceptable!

hi
im not against subsect/gothram....in fact im very proud of my subsect/gothram.....but these are the new trends....even

my wife's extended family married sagothram and nice kids...they are very happy...but im not supporting personally...

even once IYENGARS WERE UNTOUCHABLE TO IYERS....VICE VERSE.... not many things changed and accepted...

if we like it or not...many things are not in our hand.....