The gothram of a child

[renuka]

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I feel the word BRAHMINISM should NEVER EVER be used cos this is the word that all Non Hindu Missionaries use to get converts.

At least it should not be coming out from a Brahmin's mouth.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

In India also, all the weddings are registered soon after 'tying the three knots' is over, on the same day.

There are agents (even a few mamis) to help in the registration, for a payment, in SingArach Chennai.

So only one wedding anniversary each year!!

Dear RR ji,

Yes even here it is done at the temple itself just before the wedding cos some temple officials are registrar of marriages too but having 2 dates of anniversary is fun too.

You see when you register saw a few months before temple wedding..for a few months you are like boyfriend and girlfriend(but legally married) and can have the love marriage feeling too!

So one stone 2 mangoes!

 

[C RAVI]

I think the mother has decided to initiate her son to Hinduism by the Upanayanam...As per the mother it shall be some sort of bonding to our Hindu culture as far as child is concerned...

Let us not read too much into this symbolic act...

It is for the child & mother to take a call whether to attend Avani Avittam or chant Gayatri Mantra as is the case with many of our TB brethren


It may look non conformist to the traditional...Ultimately it is the call of the mother's inner voice to do Upanayanam for her son...Let us respect her feelings, her emotions & her decision on this

Well taken Sir...

When it is all about a human's / a mother's personal emotional choices and preferences, I certainly respect that.


I still feel sorry for the child in the real story, narrated in OP. As long as the mother in the story is spiritually inclined and is determined to facilitate conduce environment for the child to learn religious/spiritual principles and values of Hinduism, I feel, the things can be fine, both for the child and the mother.



Just to add -

It would be nice if brahmin girls opt to marry Non Brahmin boys, they do upanayanam to their husband first and then fulfill their extended/continued desire of doing upanayanam to their child (if at all they wish to do upanayanam for their son). I feel, a mother's sentimental choices and preferences can make true sense to herself and the child ONLY if such preferences and choices can make their sons feel happy and comfortable.

 

[renuka]

I feel no one should force their life style on anyone.

I do not see any reason why a Brahmin girl needs to make her Non Brahmin husband wear Yajnopavitam if he is not keen or not ready for it?

It is purely up to the NB husband to decide what is best for himself.

Some wives/husbands try to impose their lifestyle on each other and cause a mess in marriage.

Some of my relatives(females) after marriage are only allowed to pray to the Devatas of their husband's family and not allowed to pray to their previous Devata.

I do not see any rationale behind that...all forms of God are the same..so more the merrier!LOL
So no harm worshiping any Devata too.

My husband prays to Ganesha only and I have a Sarva Dharma concept in religion and do not impose beliefs on each other.

I am a follower of Sathya Sai Baba's teachings and my husband is neutral on this and I do not impose anything on him too.

So husband and wife should never try to force their thinking and lifestyle on each other after all God is One it is just that Traditions might differ.

 

[sarang]

If the boy gets into the game and becomes a practising vaishnavite, he will be a big asset to his family and community.

1. There is no caste in sanatana dharama, aka hinduism, only varnas.
2. Yajnopavita was worn by many, saraswati sculpture in gangai konda cholapuram, rajaraja chola, and till 1940s by all goldsmiths, thachchars, chettiars, naidus and many more. I have even posted photos of carpenters and goldsmiths wearing poonul.
3. Poonul has nothing to with veg or non veg. Food habits are generally family traditions. Some chettiars in my class were strict vegetarians and some were not. They, the seniors are still vegetarians; the younger generation may have changed.
4. Caturvarna has the sanction of gita and it makes no sense to deny that. it is a classification; who belongs and how to classify or whom to exclude are always under discussion and scanner and will go on for ever. Brahmins mainly have maintained this continuity by birth and sometimes by behaviour for thousands of years. There are kshtriaya and vaisya groups too which have maintained this continuity. In the days of chola and pandya kings all sections of the community had sufficient power and authority on all local issues. Village panchayat system was democratic with able elected representatives.


It is easy to say, there are doctors who do not know abc of medicine (formulae, how it works), lawyers and judges who know nothing of statutes and their inner meanings (lower court judge's knowledge of law has been criticised by the higher court judge), accountants who cannot add - no end to such listing.

Doing is better than non doing. But lord krishna adds more to this.

Yajnopavita is not the domain of any one caste.

Every Hindu who can conform to the rules and regulations of wearing a Yajnopavita has the right to wear it.

I have seen many who wear it but still eat non veg.

I have met many who wear it and still do not know even the meaning of Gayatri Mantra.

Let any deserving candidate wear it if they wish so.

We might not know who this little boy will turn out to be in the future.

Many great souls take birth in unconventional circumstances.

So I don't think we need to speculate if this boy won't live up to the expectations of society.

For all you know he will be teaching everyone one fine day.

Just to add..there is no such thing called Brahminism, Kshatriyaism,Vaisyaism or Sudraism..there is only Sanathana Dharma.

 

[renuka]

If the boy gets into the game and becomes a practising vaishnavite, he will be a big asset to his family and community.

1. There is no caste in sanatana dharama, aka hinduism, only varnas.
2. Yajnopavita was worn by many, saraswati sculpture in gangai konda cholapuram, rajaraja chola, and till 1940s by all goldsmiths, thachchars, chettiars, naidus and many more. I have even posted photos of carpenters and goldsmiths wearing poonul.
3. Poonul has nothing to with veg or non veg. Food habits are generally family traditions. Some chettiars in my class were strict vegetarians and some were not. They, the seniors are still vegetarians; the younger generation may have changed.
4. Caturvarna has the sanction of gita and it makes no sense to deny that. it is a classification; who belongs and how to classify or whom to exclude are always under discussion and scanner and will go on for ever. Brahmins mainly have maintained this continuity by birth and sometimes by behaviour for thousands of years. There are kshtriaya and vaisya groups too which have maintained this continuity. In the days of chola and pandya kings all sections of the community had sufficient power and authority on all local issues. Village panchayat system was democratic with able elected representatives.


It is easy to say, there are doctors who do not know abc of medicine (formulae, how it works), lawyers and judges who know nothing of statutes and their inner meanings (lower court judge's knowledge of law has been criticised by the higher court judge), accountants who cannot add - no end to such listing.

Doing is better than non doing. But lord krishna adds more to this.

Good to know that you echo the same sentiments as me in most of your lines here.

Caturvarna is just a division of society it is not Brahminism, Kshatriyaism,Vaisyaism or Sudraism.
Such words are not found in any religious text.
Each Varna was carrying out their allotted duty without adding any "Ism" behind their community.

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... So husband and wife should never try to force their thinking and lifestyle on each other after all God is One it is just that Traditions might differ.

My brother has a Christian friend at Coimbatore who married a brahmin lady.

He alone will go to the church on Sundays and she will take her children to the nearby temple on Fridays!
Each of them never used to interfere in the method of prayer by the other person. Great couple! :yo:

 

[suraju06]

Dear TKS,
We all really do not know the mother of the boy. We do not know why she took a divorce. We do not know the husband of the lady either and how innocent or cruel he was. So whatever we discuss will be pure speculation and for that reason I did not want to enter into a detailed conversation on this topic. Considering the nature of the subject I am not interested in analysing it in great detail. I will try to just answer your questions as I know where I stand in this matter.

1. Do you blame her for the divorce?

No. I believe every woman and man has the basic right to seek and get a divorce if things do not work out well within a marriage.

2. Because of the divorce should she be deprived of conceiving a child and raising a child? I am sure her boy gave her immense joy and if such a possibility exist and available do you see that it is wrong to do so? If she should be deprived, why? Why would you care?

This is getting a little deeper into the subject which I am reluctant to do. Having undertaken to answer your questions, I take up the task tentatively: She has a right to get a child in or out of wedlock and no one can deny that. Please read answer to the next question for answer to the rest of the querry in this question.

3. If the lady chose an white man's sperm - is that a big deal? I cannot imagine a TB lining up to make a donation. Why do you care if she conceived a baby of a white man's sperm? In what way it is a manipulation? It is like a medical procedure. If the procedure is available to resolve an issue why not take advantage?

Choosing a whiteman’s sperm is not at all a big deal. But the circumstances and the context suggest that she thought it to be a big deal. When someone has a normal option and an extraordinary option if the normal option is chosen there is no big deal. But when the extraordinary is chosen it deserves a careful scrutiny here. What can be the motive for the abnormal choice? Can you answer this question?
It is true it is just a medical procedure which is resorted to when a couple (wedded or not) is unable to conceive in the normal course because of deficiencies. The only other case for adopting the procedure can be when a woman or man does not want to adopt the normal mating procedure and that is abnormal. Can you reason out why this abnormal procedure was chosen?

4. In what way her conduct of the function any worse than many TBs. So there is no manipulation involved - there are willing priests who are freelancing available to conduct any function anywhere. Why do you think this woman in the story did any manipulation - she simply availed of the services offered.

TBs do not conduct any function in Rahukalam deliberately. I have not come across such an instance in my life time so far. Can there be a special motive for choosing the Rahukalam? Ok, after choosing the Rahukalam, normally no Sastrigal will come to perform his role if he knows it is rahukalam; but some sastrigal came forward here obviously after taking into account the fact of rahukalam and the size of the dakshinai packet. The power of money is great indeed as you have yourself said. My question here is can there be a motive to buying the Sastrigal? Was it intended as a message to someone?
I will deal with your two more questions separately as they are general in nature. To me-I have only incomplete data and I have no prejudice-it appears like a simple case where a woman who lost her marriage wanted to avenge. She wanted to convey a powerful message to the other party that she can still win her battles. She manipulated every thing on the way to her victory…….a Pyrrhic victory. I am aware I may be completely wrong. I have my sympathy for that lady.
Cheers.

 

[C RAVI]

That's very nice, Shmt.Raji Ram.


The problem will only start if Father forces children to adopt Chritianity and Mother forces children to adopt Hinduism or even wearing poonal and get into certain brahminical systems.

On this ground, I feel, A mother imposing her emotional preferences on her child against the likes of her husband would lead to chaos between the couples and between the child and parents.

Though I personally respect a Mother's emotions and sentiments, I can't rule out possible disturbances of various degrees when father is not happy with what his son is doing as been directed by his mother.

Thus, I am of the view that, if a Brahmin girl wishes to do upanayanam and other brahminical stuff to her son, having married a non-brahmin man, "it would be nice" and more meanigful, if she first make her husband undergo upanayanam. Doing only to son against his father would not really serve the porpose of doing upanayanam to the child.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Just by reading a post of yours, how is that many members are able to make so many assumptions and discuss this much!

Those who have neither seen that lady nor talked to her are able to write so much about her attitude! I feel sorry for her. :tsk:

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear raji ram !
whether brahmin girl or boy marry other religon they convert to caste of their spouse .if the hindu wants to maintain his/her custom ,there start the problem and end in divorce.i came across many such couples when i was in Bangalore .the marriage is made in hurry and the tradition is thought of leisurely.even in trichy one brahmin boy married a christian and he has become a true christian for his in-laws and when he moves with his old friends he shows his likes towards hindu rituals and food.
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

post 83 #
dear renukaji !
your talking about twin marriage anniversary .but my daughter and sons liker their nitchayathartham (நிச்சயதார்த்தம்) day than wedding day .only parents celebrate their wards wedding day and wishing them on that day.
guruvayurappan

 

[prasad1]

Dear Renu,

In a few cases, a marriage needs the bride, the groom, an officer and two friends for signature!!

Mrs. RR,
What about same sex marriages. LOL

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Just by reading a post of yours, how is that many members are able to make so many assumptions and discuss this much!

Those who have neither seen that lady nor talked to her are able to write so much about her attitude! I feel sorry for her. :tsk:

LOL
I posted the thread just to show how culture is changing. I guess in Tamil Nadu time stands still.
For her sake I hope she is not a member here in this site.

 

[tbs]

Dear RR ji,

Yes even here it is done at the temple itself just before the wedding cos some temple officials are registrar of marriages too but having 2 dates of anniversary is fun too.

You see when you register saw a few months before temple wedding..for a few months you are like boyfriend and girlfriend(but legally married) and can have the love marriage feeling too!

So one stone 2 mangoes!

hi
not only fun...some KICKU too...before marriage ' KIKKU' is differenent.. as gf/bf.....after marriage ' KIKKU' different...becoz commitment/

responsibility...so no real KIKKU here...

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Just by reading a post of yours, how is that many members are able to make so many assumptions and discuss this much!

Those who have neither seen that lady nor talked to her are able to write so much about her attitude! I feel sorry for her. :tsk:

Shmt. Raji Ram,


I can understand your agony, especially when you are a lady yourself....

My gut feelings is that, definitely the members here would show a different reaction if they all would have known the lady personally. When we know some one we would alter our thoughts within us and would also differ in expressing what we have hidden in our heart.


It is common to express critical analysis of a given situation/incident/happening/involvements by others who are all strangers to this lady. Only a stranger can express his/her heartfelt true opinions. Whereas, a known person neither can think exactly that way nor can express the way he/she truly feels about the choices of the lady.


For example, if I want to know some feedback and want to know the reactions and opinions about the others, pertaining to my some unusual/unconventional/peculiar personal choices and I put it forward as the choices of some other xyz, I would get all the best analysis, suggestions, criticism, advices etc..etc.Much Better than what it could have been, by disclosing who is actually into the picture, making such choices.

This is quiet common and there is nothing to feel disappointed, IMHO.


So, what I feel is, you certainly need not to feel sorry for the length and depth of the assumptions been made and discussed here...

 

[suraju06]

Dear TKS,

Your post # 72 for reference:

Here I give my answer to another question of yours:

Being a birth-based Brahmin only means that you are endowed with the raw material. How you make use of it to produce an end product depends on you, your circumstances, your surroundings, your food, your acquired value system and your society. So whom do we blame?

Birth based Brahmin does not endow with any special raw material. I do not even know what raw material you are referring to. If a household is sincere in following traditions while being Satvic in outlook and hence also a family of Guna brahmanas then the tradition, family values provides an immense opportunity for one to develop interests that may lead to study of Vedas and hence seek truth & eventually understand Isvara. The raw material of the body is no different than that of anyone else in the world.

My understanding of Indian Civilization has led me to believe that:

1. Indian society in its distant past at some point of time had consciously chosen to divide itself into three or four groups called varnas. The necessity for this division was nothing but the common good and progress of the society as it evolved over time. Different existential tasks required different skills to manage them. As our ancestors had the brilliant insight that behaviour and culture can be part of the genetically driven evolution process, they chose this path. Thus we came to have the four varnas- Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vyshyas and Sudras with distinct roles marked out for each group in the society.
2. Over hundreds of years of civilizational progress and through several generations these varnas/groups mastered and excelled in the roles they played. It is an anthropologists’ finding that culture has a strong influence over the way genes evolve in the biological evolution process.
3. What all this means is that other things being equal, a kshatriya can wield a weapon better in a battle than a Brahmin, that a Vyshya can manage finances better than a kshatriya etc., etc. and that this inborn inclination to excel in an area of specialization/skill set is superimposed/coded into the genetic material itself through generations of the civil society.

I am calling this predisposition/inclination as the raw material in my post. Let me hasten to add that there is no value judgment involved anywhere in my understanding of the varna system. I strongly believe that when it comes to modern civil rights every human being is equal. I do not believe in caste/varna discrimination of any sort. I do not believe in higher or lower castes/varnas. But I am not inclined to accept that every one is the same when born either. The ‘history’ that the genes remember is not the same for different groups. The caste discriminations, conflicts, and atrocities are all political developments which is an unfortunate development.

What I have mentioned above about the impact of culture on biological evolution is not a cock and bull story spun by me. Anthropologists in US and Japan have done pioneering work in this area and have published their findings which are irrefutable. As the subject is part of modern science and can be quite difficult to negotiate for an uninitiated, I am not reproducing here any excerpts from the original papers. Those who are interested to know more can look up for a book titled “Not by Genes Alone” authored by Peter J Richerson and Robert Boyd published by University of Chicago Press. In his scientific paper published Robert Boyd scientifically proves the theory propounded by him. If you are a member of the UCLA(University of California Los angeles) Library you can access all the papers published by the scientist and all the books he has authored besides his lectures.
So dear Mr. TKS birth based Brahmin is indeed endowed with the necessary basic genetic material to lead a satvic life. What he does with it in his life time is his own take.

I hope this answers Renuka's exclamation (I too was wondering yesterday what was actually meant by Raw Material?) too.
Cheers.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear TKS,

Your post # 72 for reference:

Here I give my answer to another question of yours:



My understanding of Indian Civilization has led me to believe that:

1. Indian society in its distant past at some point of time had consciously chosen to divide itself into three or four groups called varnas. The necessity for this division was nothing but the common good and progress of the society as it evolved over time. Different existential tasks required different skills to manage them. As our ancestors had the brilliant insight that behaviour and culture can be part of the genetically driven evolution process, they chose this path. Thus we came to have the four varnas- Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vyshyas and Sudras with distinct roles marked out for each group in the society.
2. Over hundreds of years of civilizational progress and through several generations these varnas/groups mastered and excelled in the roles they played. It is an anthropologists’ finding that culture has a strong influence over the way genes evolve in the biological evolution process.
3. What all this means is that other things being equal, a kshatriya can wield a weapon better in a battle than a Brahmin, that a Vyshya can manage finances better than a kshatriya etc., etc. and that this inborn inclination to excel in an area of specialization/skill set is superimposed/coded into the genetic material itself through generations of the civil society.

I am calling this predisposition/inclination as the raw material in my post. Let me hasten to add that there is no value judgment involved anywhere in my understanding of the varna system. I strongly believe that when it comes to modern civil rights every human being is equal. I do not believe in caste/varna discrimination of any sort. I do not believe in higher or lower castes/varnas. But I am not inclined to accept that every one is the same when born either. The ‘history’ that the genes remember is not the same for different groups. The caste discriminations, conflicts, and atrocities are all political developments which is an unfortunate development.

What I have mentioned above about the impact of culture on biological evolution is not a cock and bull story spun by me. Anthropologists in US and Japan have done pioneering work in this area and have published their findings which are irrefutable. As the subject is part of modern science and can be quite difficult to negotiate for an uninitiated, I am not reproducing here any excerpts from the original papers. Those who are interested to know more can look up for a book titled “Not by Genes Alone” authored by Peter J Richerson and Robert Boyd published by University of Chicago Press. In his scientific paper published Robert Boyd scientifically proves the theory propounded by him. If you are a member of the UCLA(University of California Los angeles) Library you can access all the papers published by the scientist and all the books he has authored besides his lectures.
So dear Mr. TKS birth based Brahmin is indeed endowed with the necessary basic genetic material to lead a satvic life. What he does with it in his life time is his own take.
Cheers.

Shri raju,


I agree totally with your above post. I could also understand that Genes are influenced by social behavioral patterns, the involvement over years in a specific way etc. Some refuted that, Genes are not influenced by social patterns BUT social patterns are influenced by Genes. If I remember well, it was in the thread where I asserted that, Spirituality would continue to exists in this word of humans and the inherent spiritual elements incorporated in human genes would continue to carry forward to any number of future generation.


As you said in your previous post, the genetic qualities that got designed over a period of evolution of a specific behavioral, analytical, strategical, bravado etc etc patterns of a lineage are the raw materials that the new born physical body possesses and further attempts to enhance its qualities.

How much the genes under the influences of human brain in a particular environment could progress or degrade or totally get altered/differed are subjected to the practices and choices in a new found world.


That's why it is advisable to keep our brain/mind intact and help towards advancing the qualities of the genes for the better. Brain/Mind is the primary player operating under a given place and environment that can alter the genetic qualities BUT the same brain is potent to grasp things beyond the given place and environment, can grasp the spiritual energies and can lead one self towards the path of righteousness and truth. The more refined and excelled qualities of brain/mind is, the more better progress of the genes is rest assured.

 

[renuka]

hi
not only fun...some KICKU too...before marriage ' KIKKU' is differenent.. as gf/bf.....after marriage ' KIKKU' different...becoz commitment/

responsibility...so no real KIKKU here...

Kickku is a technique! LOL

 

[tks]

Reply to Post #108

We all really do not know the mother of the boy. We do not know why she took a divorce. We do not know the husband of the lady either and how innocent or cruel he was. So whatever we discuss will be pure speculation and for that reason I did not want to enter into a detailed conversation on this topic. Considering the nature of the subject I am not interested in analysing it in great detail. I will try to just answer your questions as I know where I stand in this matter.

.I also do not want to get into too much detail of a person's life beyond discussions here that reveal our approach to life events.
.
.



Sri Raju :

My responses.. For some reason I could not reply within that message

Choosing a whiteman’s sperm is not at all a big deal. But the circumstances and the context suggest that she thought it to be a big deal. When someone has a normal option and an extraordinary option if the normal option is chosen there is no big deal. But when the extraordinary is chosen it deserves a careful scrutiny here. What can be the motive for the abnormal choice? Can you answer this question?
It is true it is just a medical procedure which is resorted to when a couple (wedded or not) is unable to conceive in the normal course because of deficiencies. The only other case for adopting the procedure can be when a woman or man does not want to adopt the normal mating procedure and that is abnormal. Can you reason out why this abnormal procedure was chosen?

I do now know what she thought. I am sure no one knows. I am not sure what is a 'normal' option. She may not want to get married again. Who knows? Going to a sperm bank is not such a big deal. And most likely the donors are going to be local natives. With TB culture of admiring fair skin it is not surprising that she chose a white person's sperm as opposed to a black man or Latino. I am sure there may be hardly any asian samples and certainly not TB samples.

So the premise of your question that this is an abnormal path is really a reflection of your belief system. It is an uncommon approach. I come across people now and then who have chosen this path. She may have known someone who may have suggested this. I was on a business trip recently and I happen to sit next to a woman who was an extrovert and started talking (since it was a long flight). It turned out that she was married to a woman (long term relation of about 20 years) and said she has two children obviously through artificial means. What would be considered a definition of abnormal family seemed almost normal as she was showing photos of her family.

If a woman did not want to get married after divorce, and if she wants a child regardless and she was living in this part of the world these options are rare but not uncommon - certainly not abnormal. In any case let me say that in my part of the world here it is not considered abnormal.

TBs do not conduct any function in Rahukalam deliberately. I have not come across such an instance in my life time so far. Can there be a special motive for choosing the Rahukalam? Ok, after choosing the Rahukalam, normally no Sastrigal will come to perform his role if he knows it is rahukalam; but some sastrigal came forward here obviously after taking into account the fact of rahukalam and the size of the dakshinai packet. The power of money is great indeed as you have yourself said. My question here is can there be a motive to buying the Sastrigal? Was it intended as a message to someone?

I do not think there is anything deliberate in any of this. Most Hindus/TBs are clueless with respect to traditions. In this culture birthdays as well as religious functions are celebrated on a weekend. Many of the Sastrigal or those thinking they can perform a function are unqualified in my experience. Many times Kurukkal type people are brought by temples and asked to do Sastrigal activities and they have no clue.
Our society does not respect the profession of Sastrigal and tend to be stingy compared to other religious traditions. So there are many that claim they know and agree to perform a function for some fees.
I suspect if someone told her that it would be better to do this at a different time I would like to think she would have agreed. What you think as a manipulation is really ignorance in my view. Besides why host a function and to send a message to who and for what. In my mind it does not add up.

Let me end this part with two stories of so called priest in USA (one is at least humorous).

One person came as a priest to this country through a connection to a trustee. He has never done beyond Kurukkal type work. He claimed he can perform any function. Two days after he landed in USA there was a death in some family and they wanted a Iyengar priest. This person was sent and he went. After a while he did not know what to do and started crying with everyone else ! This person was going to be fired but saved by one of my friend to work at a different place with very little salary. This was about 15 years ago.

There are many stories but just one more. There was another case in another temple where someone wanted a priest to do a wedding. This person - happened to be Iyengar again (nothing against them) got a crash course as to how to conduct and do what. It seems he wrote the steps and few Mantras in a piece of paper - one for each major aspect. When he went and sat down in the hall it seems the air-condition started working blowing air on his pieces of paper which went all over the place. He quickly collected them only to find out that he never numbered them. Now he ordered to the best of his memory and performed the function in the order - Thali then OOnjal etc .. He made up by reciting regular stotrams and made a show. A few other priests were laughing when they shared the story with me (again some years ago). I am sure it must have been embellished.

I am not surprised that this woman got someone to do this function. Most likely not qualified and ready to take some money.

I dont think there is any manipulation involved from limited facts available.

It is just a story of a human being caught in a bad divorce even if she contributed to the divorce, found a way to get a son though unorthodox and is going about doing what any mother would do - a bit of show, and a bit of wanting the best for her son.

If you read any more into this story then only you can answer the questions

I will deal with your two more questions separately as they are general in nature. To me-I have only incomplete data and I have no prejudice-it appears like a simple case where a woman who lost her marriage wanted to avenge. She wanted to convey a powerful message to the other party that she can still win her battles. She manipulated every thing on the way to her victory…….a Pyrrhic victory. I am aware I may be completely wrong. I have my sympathy for that lady.

I hope your sense of sympathy outweighs your other reasons...


Cheers

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear All

Ref Tmt RR's post # 110 - I think she is 'spot on' - ' Circumstance makes a person '.

We don't even know the person in question, just know what has been posted about her
[ I don't question the authenticity of the OP ], and that is too little to form an opinion/pass comments.

Tmt RR is correct - we ought not to be discussing the personal life of anybody.

Please observe, I have restricted myself to the topic of what The Courts had to say and decree
in the cases of Gotrhram and Pravaram brought before the judiciary.

Yay Yem

 

[renuka]

Sometimes to a certain extent I feel Religion makes us Obsessed with so called "Purity".

To me I feel I might want to discard the usage of the word Religion.

Religion might lead to Dharma but Dharma is not dependent on Religion.

I feel it is better we call ourselves Seekers of God.

This '"ism" behind each mode of prayer actually gives Sanathana Dharma a bad name.

 

[tks]

Dear Raju

With respect to Post #117

I do not dispute theories exist about linkage of culture to human evolution and adaptation. I do not have interest in these theories since their usefulness to the pursuits of Brahmana is limited in my view. I am not expecting agreement here from anyone.

I have not met any more Satvic people who are Birth-Brahminas than from any other culture. I do not like to put down any group including Brahmanas of today or my ancestors of the past. I have great respect and regard for all the sincere Brahmanas. It is a belief system that the Brahmana culture did not help develop Satvic people. Many do not even understand in my limited experience what is expected of them by the term they represent.

The key word that I have highlighted from your post is:
"My understanding of Indian Civilization has led me to believe that"

I do not debate beliefs other than to respect the belief ..

Peace!

 

[suraju06]

Dear TKS,

Your post #123 for reference:

The key word that I have highlighted from your post is:
"My understanding of [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]Indian Civilization has led me to believe that"
[/COLOR]I do not debate beliefs other than to respect the belief ..

I know people will say this. That is why I had made it clear in my post that my belief is not just a blind one and that it is proved to be the truth by empirical methods of Science by Scientists of the West ( the continent from where knowledge comes and the race which speaks that knowledge is important for us Indians!). You do not debate beliefs - and it is okay with me. You do not debate scientific facts too because they are not useful to you-and this too is okay with me. Well, it is your choice after all and I can do nothing about it.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear TKS,

Your post # 120 for reference:

……..what she thought. I am sure no one knows. I am not sure what is a 'normal' option. She may not want to get married again. Who knows? Going to a sperm bank is not such a big deal. And most likely the donors are going to be local natives. With TB culture of admiring fair skin it is not surprising that she chose a white person's sperm as opposed to a black man or Latino. I am sure there may be hardly any asian samples and certainly not TB samples. So the premise of your question that this is an abnormal path is really a reflection of your belief system. It is an uncommon approach. I come across people now and then who have chosen this path. She may have known someone who may have suggested this. I was on a business trip recently and I happen to sit next to a woman who was an extrovert and started talking (since it was a long flight). It turned out that she was married to a woman (long term relation of about 20 years) and said she has two children obviously through artificial means. What would be considered a definition of abnormal family seemed almost normal as she was showing photos of her family.

I did not expect this digression about the word abnormal. Abnormal has the following synonyms. You can take any that you are comfortable with. Synonyms: aberrant, aberrated, exceptional, anomalous,atypical, especial, exceeding, extraordinaire, extraordinary,freak, odd, peculiar, phenomenal, preternatural, rare,singular, uncommon, uncustomary, unique, unusual,unwonted. And , dear friend, you do not know much about my belief system to trace my question to it. If you say that homosexual relationship is perfectly normal/commonplace/natural etc. I have nothing to argue there. It is your belief and you are entitled to keep it.

If a woman did not want to get married after divorce, and if she wants a child regardless and she was living in this part of the world these options are rare but not uncommon - certainly not abnormal. In any case let me say that in my part of the world here it is not considered abnormal.

I understand the standards of your part of the world too. As for the label “abnormal” please refer what I have copy-pasted above as synonyms. I took it from mariam Webster English dictionary. I find the words rare and uncommon are synonymous with abnormal. May be I am still stuck with the Queen’s English.

I do not think there is anything deliberate in any of this. Most Hindus/TBs are clueless with respect to traditions. In this culture birthdays as well as religious functions are celebrated on a weekend. Many of the Sastrigal or those thinking they can perform a function are unqualified in my experience. Many times Kurukkal type people are brought by temples and asked to do Sastrigal activities and they have no clue.
Our society does not respect the profession of Sastrigal and tend to be stingy compared to other religious traditions. So there are many that claim they know and agree to perform a function for some fees.
Let me end this part with two stories of so called priest in USA (one is at least humorous) One person came as a priest to this country…………………………………. must have been embellished. I dont think there is any manipulation involved from limited facts available.

Peace. I have allowed my sense of sympathy for the woman of the story to take over.