Theory of Karma

[Yamaka]

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"Aryan Invasion is a mis-construed theory." -post 294

How do you account for higher melanin people (darker skin color) in South India and lower melanin people in the North?

My answer is:

1. ALL human beings evolved by Biological Evolution in the Great Rift Valley of Africa near Lake Victoria.. About 50,000 years ago, Anthropologists say some of these early humans migrated towards Australia following a Southern Route - Kenya, Oman, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Indonesia to finally Down Under.

Many of these moving migrants stayed in India creating the glorious Indian civilization (think of the Indus Valley, Mehrgarh Civilization of 3000 BCE)

Some other group migrated to the North via the Northern Route towards Europe, Asia (then migrating to North and South America via Bering Sea).

These Northern people shed their melanin by mutation of their melanin gene(s) due to the need for sunlight for Vit D metabolism for their health in the Northern colder climate. These are the "Whites".

2. About 5000 years ago, some of these people in the Central Asia (presently Turkmanistan, Uzbakistan - West Eurasia) moved towards India... these people are the low melanin people (called Aryans)and is called the Great Aryan Migration... these people cross married people of high melanin (for at least 2000 years) who have been there in India for 50,000 years and created a hue of skin colors.

That accounts for the "whitish" people in North India, and a hue of darker colors in South India.

I am not a racist.. I don't stand Racial Bigotry, because even in my own family, we have high melanin genes and the low melanin mutant alleles...some members are of lighter color and others darker...

For me, after 5000 years, Aryan Dravidian politics is UNNECESSARY, and is very divisive.

Also, we need not TRY to re-write history for the sake of some dirty politics... I believe what anthropologists and human population geneticists say.

 

[prasad1]

namaste Prasad.

Alfred Bernhard Nobel invented the dynamite in good faith about its positive uses. Scientists are not immune to the pressures of human greed for power, which can make them shape up science the way it should not be.

In the word of Jaggi Vasdev:
"Whenever you are happy, the real source of happiness is within you. It bubbles up. It is just that you are looking for an external stimulus to make you happy."

"Religions of the world are not bout one man’s belief against another, but an opportunity for all humans to each to their common ultimate source."
"When you become meditative, you will see, your intellectual capabilities will increase many times more than what it is right now. Not because meditation makes you intelligent, but because meditation clears up the mess, the muck that’s gathered on the glass of the flashlight. As your meditation deepens, it just clears up the muck more and more and the flashlight becomes more and more powerful. It shows you things more and more clearly."


"This non-physical dimension-the very core of who you are, which we can refer to as no-thing or everything-is the basis of all creation. It is the ultimate intelligence that creates, maintains, and destroys all existence."


"You must become willing to transcend your limitations. This willingness is surrender. The only barrier to it is you. If you are willing, who can stop you? So, the sadhana is just to make you willing. Enlightenment is never far away, but to make a person completely willing takes time because you have layers and layers of resistance. It takes time to work through the resistance, to become absolutely willing. It need not necessarily take time, but generally people do take time."

"Anyone with a little sense can see that all life has definitely come from the same source. So, if we all come from the same source, all of us carry the same energy within us."

May the one you seek grant you your desire.

 

[saidevo]

Hey, Yamaka, why did you forget peace in your post #300? I said in post #299 that I need both happiness and peace, which science alone cannot offer me. This means that I do use science for worldly happiness and religion/spirituality for mental happiness and peace.

You have conveniently forgotten about peace. Is it because science cannot afford it, in all the senses of the word 'afford'?

 

[saidevo]

namaste Prasad.

Thank you for the nice post #302. If only some of those words you quoted percolate down into the consciousness of our scientists, the world could be a much better place to live in.

IMO, we as believers can have the perception of 1/3rd science and 2/3rds religion/spirituality in life. Why 1/3rd to science? Because science can make us comfortable and happy only in this physical world; and we have two more metaphysical worlds in our cycle. Why religion and not just spirituality? Whatever the views of skeptics about religion, it is religion that shapes up a person's moral core and cleans up his chitta--mental impressions, and makes the person ready for the path of jnAna through meditation.

 

[happyhindu]

namaste smt.HH and others.

You said in post #269:
May i know which seers please? Can you provide some evidence from brahmanical literature in support of your statements (about the brain) that such things were already known to "our" seers? Lets leave aside Julius Schumacher and his views. May i know which hindu seers have conveyed such things?

Incidentally, what is the Sanskrit word for brain? Yea, I got it: mastiShkaM, go(r)daM. Checking with Ayurveda, I have the following, for a start (emphasis in the original quote):

The mastiShka or the brain is considered to be an 'instrument' through which the manas or the mind is able to reveal its effect. It governs both the indriyas namely the sensory and motor organs (gnana indriyas and karma indriyas respectively).(sushruta sUtra12:5)

The mastiShka having received the sense impressions processes the data collected, and in turn stimulates the motor organs (karma indriyas) and other internal organs to function. The manas (mind) characterises one's pattern of response and individuality in time (kAla) and space or environment (dik).

Ref: Treatise on Ayurveda - Srikantha Arunachalan - Google Books

Shri Saidevo,

Am aware of the contributions of Ayurveda and Sthapatya Shastra from the Atharva texts to humanity. However, the atharva texts were not at all a part of Vedas.

The Vedas recognise themselves as Trayi-Veda (of Rig, Sama and Yajur). We have had discussions in the past about Indra throwing yatis to hyenas, and blood-shed leading to the inclusion and merger of the Atharva with other Vedas.

And yet it is subject to debate if the Atharva texts can be called part of the Vedas; although parts of it got absorbed by the brahmanas (texts) in the creation of vedic sacrifices (after having been supplanted by the Gods of the trayi-veda). The remaining Atharva was apparently destroyed (but imo some fled and survived in safe havens).

Even to a layman it will be clear that the Atharva texts consist of things that are totally opposite to the Vedas (trayi-vedas). The Atharva Sthapatya texts are about idols, pranapratishta, etc. But the other 3 vedas have no idol worship. It is an accepted theory that the Vedas (that is trayi-vedas) do not recognise idol worship.

Sisnadeva (Linga) worship is prohibited in the Rig. But Sarabeswara is considered an Atharva God. As such, Atharva Gods like Skanda, Narasimha, Pratyangira, etc are completely different from the Gods of the Trayi Vedas. The Vedas (trayi-vedas) do not even recognise such Gods.

Then again, all Abhichara rites are exclusive to the Atharva alone and they are considered Sorcery by the other vedas. You do not find the Atharva Angirasa kapu, viparva, rodaka, nada, etc used in Shrauta sacrifices involving the vedas (trayi-vedas). The Atharva rites are not recognised by the Vedas (trayi-vedas).

The Atharva obviously has some unexplored ancient links with Zoarashtrianism and Jainism. Unfortunately, the divergence model of Atharva texts has not been studied yet.

I laid empasis on the term "our seers". Frankly, it would seem dubious that "brahmanical seers" of the Vedas take credit for something that was not discovered by them.

Am beginning to agree that IVC was Jain-Zoarastrian-Atharva.

Regards.

 

[Yamaka]

Hey, Yamaka, why did you forget peace in your post #300? I said in post #299 that I need both happiness and peace, which science alone cannot offer me. This means that I do use science for worldly happiness and religion/spirituality for mental happiness and peace.

You have conveniently forgotten about peace. Is it because science cannot afford it, in all the senses of the word 'afford'?

I said "Cheers" - don't you think being cheerful is peaceful? Science can give you cheers, peace, comfort and happiness!

Are you happy now?

Peace

 

[renuka]

Dear Saidevo,

You quoted :

The mastiShka or the brain is considered to be an 'instrument' through which themanas or the mind is able to reveal its effect. It governs both the indriyas namely the sensory and motor organs (gnana indriyas and karma indriyas respectively).(sushruta sUtra12:5)

The mastiShka having received the sense impressions processes the data collected, and in turn stimulates the motor organs (karma indriyas) and other internal organs to function. The manas (mind) characterises one's pattern of response and individuality in time (kAla) and space or environment (dik).

How I wish this was in the medical books I studied cos it makes perfect sense.

HH thanks for highlighting this post of Saidevo cos I missed it.

 

[renuka]

Science deals with the Gross Body,Spirituality deals with the Subtle Body.
Atma stands as a witness.

Our very existence is made up of the MBA complex..Mind Body Atma Complex.
If we can realize this fact we can feel that science paints a beautiful picture on the canvas of the Atma with the colors of spirituality.

 

[Yamaka]

namaste Prasad.

Thank you for the nice post #302. If only some of those words you quoted percolate down into the consciousness of our scientists, the world could be a much better place to live in.

IMO, we as believers can have the perception of 1/3rd science and 2/3rds religion/spirituality in life. Why 1/3rd to science? Because science can make us comfortable and happy only in this physical world; and we have two more metaphysical worlds in our cycle. Why religion and not just spirituality? Whatever the views of skeptics about religion, it is religion that shapes up a person's moral core and cleans up his chitta--mental impressions, and makes the person ready for the path of jnAna through meditation.

"it is religion that shapes up a person's moral core" - This is the FALSE propaganda and the marketing slogan by the Believers.

More immoral people can be found among Believers....more MORAL people can be seen among Atheists...

Stop this propaganda!

 

[happyhindu]

namaste everyone.

In reply to my query in post #194 about experiments about the supposed evolution of man from primates, HappyHindu in her post #197 said "Transgenic animals are possible."

I happened to spot a link that says,
Hybrid Human-Animal DNA Experiments Raise Concerns - Slashdot

Efforts of making animals be part humans are fraught with many dangers. Although a sci-fi film like the 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' might be far from becoming a reality, humanated animals might not only acquire unique human attributes like facial features, skin or speech, but may also acquire the human mental attributes like greed, anger, selfishness and craze for power--that is, if the genes are connected to emotional traits.

Who knows what can this lead to? Your immediate boss in future could be a 'manimal' or 'animan'! Worse, just like man prefers animal meat, these 'animen' might prefer human meat and human girls! Or the asuras and rAkShasas of bygone yugas may come back.

Seriously, the search text "mixing of human and animal DNA" produces over 10,000 results, many of which are likely to gloat over the success stories of science. Is science going to be a boon or bane for humanity?

Shri Saidevo,

Your ideas of a sci-fi film turned into reality is sheer fantasy -- good for movie theaters, sci-fi books and mere speculation.

You would not have drugs and vaccines (even polio vaccine) if targetted drug discovery had not explored into the unknown. You would not have stem cell treatment for various diseases either. Scientists are not so foolish as to disregard dangers of the unknown.

Agreed there are risks; but there are tools in place to prevent / control risks. Developed countries may make money dumping unapproved or banned drugs into developing countries -- that simply shows they are aware of the risks and protect themselves.

If a man lost his ear in an industrial accident and found he could grow a replacement using genetic manipulation, he wud go for it. There is absolutely nothing wrong in finding cures and remedies as long as the risks are controlled / contained.

As for your speculation of asuras and rakshasas, you may want to delve deeper into who were the asuras and rakshasas.

According to Jain versions, Ravana being a Jaina prevented the vedic rishis from cruel animal sacrifices. But our hindu itihaasa dubbed him a Rakshasa. Some sections of Southie brahmins consider Ravana their coethnic. So seriously you would not think the asuras and rakshasas were such bad people after all. Especially if you yourself worship a non-vedic idol like Shiva Linga.

Regards.

 

[renuka]

"it is religion that shapes up a person's moral core" - This is the FALSE propaganda and the marketing slogan by the Believers.

More immoral people can be found among Believers....more MORAL people can be seen among Atheists...

Stop this propaganda!

Dear Yamaka,

Dont take the religion word in that line literally.
Moral is shaped by time,place and persons around us.

Most of us have been brought up with values passed down from generations by ancestors who had some form of codes of conduct that could have been shaped through experience or even thru organized religion.

so that way even an Atheist had exposure to a good environment from his parents whose thinking were shaped by positive inputs as I mentioned above.

All this good upbringing leaves an imprint in us and we pass it down to our progeny.

So we can see good people in both the religious and the atheist cos its generations of Subhashitas(Good sayings/teachings) that we carry in our genes.

Along the way may be some of us didnt really follow what is right and turned to the dark side.

So you can find even Darth Vader among the religious and Luke Skywalker among the atheist.
As long as the Force is with us..we are on the right track.

 

[happyhindu]

More immoral people can be found among Believers....more MORAL people can be seen among Atheists...

From personal observation pov, i would agree to this. I did not come across corrupt buddhists and jains (amongst indians) as much as i had come across corrupt hindus who are orthodox to the core but equally corrupt to the core.

I don;t think religion shapes moral values. On the contrary, people shape a religion.

It really depends on a man's character. If he is good he will design a positive religion, positive outcomes for religious practices, or he will utilise existing religious practices positively. If he is bad he will do the opposite.

Unfortunately, we have the concept of bribing Gods, and misutilising the concept of prayaschitam (just to do some prayaschita karmas and go on to the next evil deed) - all this only shows what sort of religious concepts we have designed or how we utilise religion negatively.

 

[saidevo]

namaste smt.HH.

This is wrt your post #305.

I don't understand why you should restrict only the Vedic RShis to being 'seers'. I also fail to understand what you mean by the term 'brahminical literature', and why bring in brahmins in a discussion about karmic theory.

• IMO, all the RShis of shruti which comprises vedas, upaniShads, vedAngas and upavedas (all these are involved in the proper understanding of the Vedas) are seers. I would further say that Agamas and ShaD-darshanas too are shruti, to a lesser or greater extent as views about them differ.

• You are doubtless aware of the chaturdasha vidyAsthAnas of Hindu knowledge (Adherence To The Sastras (Ancient Scriptures) : kamakoti.org). All these branches of Hindu knowledge far predate the earliest scientific discoveries. So, if we find any mention of the human brain, its nature and process in any of them, I think we need to recognize it.

• Sometime back, I posted a snippet about how the king BhojarAjA underwent brain surgery in the 10th century CE.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/3079-snippets-hindu-science.html

So, if you want to restrict the Hindu knowledge of brain to only the three Vedas, it would be like asking if any branch of science other than neuro science and genetics talks about the nature and functions of the brain.

I shall go through the information you have given about the asuras and rAkShasas.

 

[happyhindu]

namaste smt.HH.

This is wrt your post #305.

I don't understand why you should restrict only the Vedic RShis to being 'seers'. I also fail to understand what you mean by the term 'brahminical literature', and why bring in brahmins in a discussion about karmic theory.

• IMO, all the RShis of shruti which comprises vedas, upaniShads, vedAngas and upavedas (all these are involved in the proper understanding of the Vedas) are seers. I would further say that Agamas and ShaD-darshanas too are shruti, to a lesser or greater extent as views about them differ.

• You are doubtless aware of the chaturdasha vidyAsthAnas of Hindu knowledge (Adherence To The Sastras (Ancient Scriptures) : kamakoti.org). All these branches of Hindu knowledge far predate the earliest scientific discoveries. So, if we find any mention of the human brain, its nature and process in any of them, I think we need to recognize it.

• Sometime back, I posted a snippet about how the king BhojarAjA underwent brain surgery in the 10th century CE.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/3079-snippets-hindu-science.html

So, if you want to restrict the Hindu knowledge of brain to only the three Vedas, it would be like asking if any branch of science other than neuro science and genetics talks about the nature and functions of the brain.

I shall go through the information you have given about the asuras and rAkShasas.

There is no problem with the usage of the words 'seers', 'sages', 'rishis', etc. The whole point conveyed in my post was about dubious claims -- that is, dubious claims of present-day brahmins about Vedas, and they taking credit for something (ie, atharva texts) that was not discovered / created by them.

I thot the folk memory of stealth of culture existed only among speakers of austroasiatic-dravidian groups. However, the more i delve into Jaina literature, the more it becomes more clear that they do have a liturgical basis for such a memory....

It is dubious to claim that the Atharva texts were hindu. Period.

You are speaking of things of the 10th century CE, long after the blood-laden history of vedic conquests were over.

Regards.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Even today Atharva Veda is being recited by Brahmin groups in Tamil Nadu, Orissa, U.P and other states. They owe their allegiance to Atharva Veda. The Gods and Goddesses of the Atharva Veda are worshiped by Hindus only. Many aspects of Atharva Veda have become part and parcel of mainstream Hinduism. Atharva Veda recital is part of the Veda Sabhas conducted by the Shringeri Math.

The claim that Atharva Veda is not Hindu is very far fetched.

It is true that the Tamil Brahmins speak very often about Atharva Veda not being a part of the Vedas. The professional Brahmins all over India decried anything which went against their professional interests.

Their power depended on their being the only representatives of GOD. Everyone including other Brahmins had to go through only them to reach GOD. That is why Vanaprastha Asrama became Nished. Because if older people took Vanaprastha they would not require the sevices of a Purohita. Even Sannyasa was frowned upon. The tamil Brahmin Purohits and astrologers inform you that in a Family where many people have taken sannyasa getting a progeny is a problem.

The professional Brahmins were against not only Atharva Veda but also Tantras. There are many theories about Tantras not being Hindu in origin and being Anti- Vedic.

But these theories do not mean that Atharva Veda and the Tantras are non-Hindu. Again it depends on how you define Hinduism. They are part of my Hinduism. The Hinduism which grew by accepting beliefs and practices of others. The Hinduism of the majority of Indian Hindus.

 

[happyhindu]

Even today Atharva Veda is being recited by Brahmin groups in Tamil Nadu, Orissa, U.P and other states. They owe their allegiance to Atharva Veda. The Gods and Goddesses of the Atharva Veda are worshiped by Hindus only. Many aspects of Atharva Veda have become part and parcel of mainstream Hinduism. Atharva Veda recital is part of the Veda Sabhas conducted by the Shringeri Math.

The claim that Atharva Veda is not Hindu is very far fetched.

It is true that the Tamil Brahmins speak very often about Atharva Veda not being a part of the Vedas. The professional Brahmins all over India decried anything which went against their professional interests.

Their power depended on their being the only representatives of GOD. Everyone including other Brahmins had to go through only them to reach GOD. That is why Vanaprastha Asrama became Nished. Because if older people took Vanaprastha they would not require the sevices of a Purohita. Even Sannyasa was frowned upon. The tamil Brahmin Purohits and astrologers inform you that in a Family where many people have taken sannyasa getting a progeny is a problem.

The professional Brahmins were against not only Atharva Veda but also Tantras. There are many theories about Tantras not being Hindu in origin and being Anti- Vedic.

But these theories do not mean that Atharva Veda and the Tantras are non-Hindu. Again it depends on how you define Hinduism. They are part of my Hinduism. The Hinduism which grew by accepting beliefs and practices of others. The Hinduism of the majority of Indian Hindus.

I have a doubt sir -- by "professional brahmins" do you mean brahmins of the trayi-veda ??

Tantras / Agamas being intrinsic to Idol worship, would be considered anti-vedic obviously i suppose (since idol worship plus the gods of the tantras / agamas are not recognised by the vedas / trayi-vedas).

I agree with the last para -- things depend on how we define hinduism. However, this wud apply to each one of us on a personal note.

From the historical pov, the Atharva texts are regarded as an independent tradition. But something violent happened due to which they got partly absorbed into the brahmanical tradition.

Regards.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Atharva Veda is not recognized as an independent tradition at least by the Universities in West Bengal which teach Vedic science courses and do research in Vedic sciences.

 

[happyhindu]

Atharva Veda is not recognized as an independent tradition at least by the Universities in West Bengal which teach Vedic science courses and do research in Vedic sciences.

I wud agree. Atharva texts, Atharva Gods, Atharva practices may have arisen independently but partly became absorbed into brahmanical tradition by force and thus got dependent i suppose.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I am sorry. Unfortunately your speakers of austroasiatic-dravidian groups did not write the Atharva Veda or the Agamas. These were written in Sanskrit by the Brahmins. Saiva Siddhanta of Tamil Nadu originated in Kashmir.

In Bengal we are not obsessed with racial theories unlike South India. That is why we do not consider genetic theories for finding the origins of our scriptures.

Even a scholarly study of the racial origin of the people of Bengal written long back did not create any ripples. The study claimed that about 30% of the people of Bengal were of Dravidian origin.

Modern racial theories do not become fact. I used to fight with people in different internet forums/Wikipedia where many communities claim Aryan descent. Now I do not know whether to laugh or cry laugh when you talk about austroasiatic-dravidian groups. A reaction to the communities who claimed Aryan descent. Many of the communities claiming Aryan descent are are not Brahmin.

 

[subbudu1]

I am sorry. Unfortunately your speakers of austroasiatic-dravidian groups did not write the Atharva Veda or the Agamas. These were written in Sanskrit by the Brahmins. Saiva Siddhanta of Tamil Nadu originated in Kashmir.

In Bengal we are not obsessed with racial theories unlike South India. That is why we do not consider genetic theories for finding the origins of our scriptures.

Even a scholarly study of the racial origin of the people of Bengal written long back did not create any ripples. The study claimed that about 30% of the people of Bengal were of Dravidian origin.

Modern racial theories do not become fact. I used to fight with people in different internet forums/Wikipedia where many communities claim Aryan descent. Now I do not know whether to laugh or cry laugh when you talk about austroasiatic-dravidian groups. A reaction to the communities who claimed Aryan descent. Many of the communities claiming Aryan descent are are not Brahmin.

Dear Nachi, let me know if you are a frequent visitor of the sastha temple in Calcutta, you know where.

 

[happyhindu]

I am sorry. Unfortunately your speakers of austroasiatic-dravidian groups did not write the Atharva Veda or the Agamas. These were written in Sanskrit by the Brahmins. Saiva Siddhanta of Tamil Nadu originated in Kashmir.

In Bengal we are not obsessed with racial theories unlike South India. That is why we do not consider genetic theories for finding the origins of our scriptures.

Even a scholarly study of the racial origin of the people of Bengal written long back did not create any ripples. The study claimed that about 30% of the people of Bengal were of Dravidian origin.

Modern racial theories do not become fact. I used to fight with people in different internet forums/Wikipedia where many communities claim Aryan descent. Now I do not know whether to laugh or cry laugh when you talk about austroasiatic-dravidian groups. A reaction to the communities who claimed Aryan descent. Many of the communities claiming Aryan descent are are not Brahmin.

Sir, Please read my post carefully. Nowhere have i supported racial theories. Please do not allege falsities.

What i said was this:
I thot the folk memory of stealth of culture existed only among speakers of austroasiatic-dravidian groups. However, the more i delve into Jaina literature, the more it becomes more clear that they do have a liturgical basis for such a memory....

This basically means i have come across racial claims amongst austroasiatic-dravidian speakers -- that does not mean i support those theories or find them to be correct. I beleive we have all been misled by racial theories. And that is partly thanks also to brahmins of the colonial period.

From Jain literature i do find there is a basis for stealth of culture -- that is all i wanted to say (i guess i should not have mentioned the austroasiatic-dravidian speakers at all).

Ofcourse one may say everyone grows by "absorbing". But that point i prefer to talk about some other time.

Also, your claim that Atharva Veda and Agamas were written by 'Brahmins' is watery. The discussion about Atharva was in full swing during the time you were absent (between saidevo, myself, nara sir, sangom sir, and few others). If you are keen, you cud start a new thread on it.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

They are written in Sanskrit the knowledge of which was the exclusive privilege of Brahmin Men. Even Brahmin women were not allowed to learn or speak in Sanskrit. This is established historical fact.

 

[Nara]

.... it is religion that shapes up a person's moral core .

Quite the contrary my dear friend Saidevo, it is religion that corrupts the moral core of otherwise decent people.

BTW, science is not a giver of any thing, it is a process by which we try to make sense of everything. It is value neutral. What we do with it is up to us. A morally corrupt person, religious or not, may use it to kill, destroy, dominate and control, and others may use it to help humanity.

Peace and happiness come from how we treat ourselves, others, and the environment, religion has nothing to do with it.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

Shri Nachinarkiniyan,

Perhaps you refer to the period of the dharmashastras.

There were female composers of vedic hymns. A few names are Ghosha, Lopamudra, Maitreyi, Gargi, Vak Devi, Aditi, Yami..

There was no varna system during the vedic period.

 

[ShivKC]

while claiming that the religion is corrupting the moral code, one should also look in to dilemma of that problem of, how to judge who is morally corrupt and who is not?

is there any einstenian formula in advance science to have a thermometric measure of 'morals & ethics'? i am yet to see a journal which can quantify a person or society in moral grades in a scale of 1-10? why science couldn't yet be able to define scales for morality & scales? atheists who claim in precise quantification, could give an attempt here. i know they cant, unless they root their scales in line with religious morality. without god, we can't root morality, rather, with atheism, every society can have their chosen morality.

who in the world is going to set the guidelines for this?

if its more than enough, that living in accordance with the law is perfectly all right, then one should also not be comparing Ambani's with bill gates alturism .

a dilemma here.

what is moral is an universal question, which i think ,atheism has no UNIVERSAL answers for the mankind. if not atheists, should not be complaining about Ambanis.