Theory of Karma

[Yamaka]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Dear Shri Yamaka,

True peace is achieved by shunning than by seeking. If you do not perceive the need for something where is the question of losing your peace in not possessing it? On the other hand if you seek something your mind does not rest till you possess it. Even if you possess it, peace is lost if you lose it. This is true with respect to both tangible and intangible possessions.

Science teaches you to seek whereas religion teaches you to shun.

Dear Sravna:

I am a seeker, not a "shunner". I walk into controversies with the intent to solve them! I tend to think that I am a Problem Solver.

What gives me peace? "Proper" understanding of issues and when I propose solutions for problems.

What gives me most happiness? When my working hypothesis turns out to be correct, after experimentation. When I do this, I gather "bragging rights"!!

Personally, when I look back in my life and career, I have been a winner; therefore, I have all reasons to be happy and peaceful...

Disclosure: I have been an Atheist in the past 40 years... I reject Poorva Janma Karma Theory!

Peace.

 

[Yamaka]

"If you seek you need the external world and your happiness or peace is not totally in your hands. On the contrary if you shun you could the sole master of your happiness and peace. The catch is, you could be the emperor of the universe but not so easily be the ruler of your senses and mind." Sravna post 344.

I am not an island.. I am a Social Animal... external world is already there, and I have learnt to deal with that world.

I seek to negotiate with my external world or control it in such a way "I am the Master of my Own Destiny".

My senses are in my control as I am a fully grown and well informed adult... and am an asset to humanity, IMO!

Where's the problem?

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Yamaka,

You wrote:

Personally, when I look back in my life and career, I have been a winner;

My senses are in my control as I am a fully grown and well informed adult... and am an asset to humanity, IMO!

Your homework for today is to contemplate on this few words:

vidyaa dadaati vinayaM vinayaadyaati paatrataam
paatratvaaddhanamaapnoti dhanaaddharmaM tataH sukhaM

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Yamaka,

You wrote:







Your homework for today is to contemplate on this few words:

vidyaa dadaati vinayaM vinayaadyaati paatrataam
paatratvaaddhanamaapnoti dhanaaddharmaM tataH sukhaM

Hi Renuka:

Since you know that I love and admire Sanskrit (if what you wrote is) a lot, do the home work for me!

And bag the Punniya for my sake! Lol

 

[renuka]

What have I won when the game isnt yet over,
How can I alone rejoice when there is a suffering brother,
I live with a borrowed name and borrowed fame,
I am no asset but a subset in this transient game.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka:

Since you know that I love and admire Sanskrit (if what you wrote is) a lot, do the home work for me!

And bag the Punniya for my sake! Lol

"Karmanyevaadhikaraste ma phaleshu Kadacana"


Be a good boy Yams just right click and google search the meaning.

 

[Yamaka]

What have I won when the game isnt yet over,
How can I alone rejoice when there is a suffering brother,
I live with a borrowed name and borrowed fame,
I am no asset but a subset in this transient game.

All this is for the Believers - perhaps, the Weak and/or Fearful - that this world is Transient and Another world is waiting for them with smile and perfume!

Not for Yamaka! Ask the Yama in him!!

 

[nachi naga]

y,

Not for Yamaka! Ask the Yama in him!!

the very rudimentary step taken by you.the "i" in you even though jocularly written,neverthless a baby step.who is this "i"?contemplate....

 

[renuka]

All this is for the Believers - perhaps, the Weak and/or Fearful - that this world is Transient and Another world is waiting for them with smile and perfume!

Not for Yamaka! Ask the Yama in him!!

Ok Yamaka's version(Yamaka's song)

I am the champion..my friend,
And I'll keep on fighting to the end..
I am the champion...I am the champion,
No time for losers cos I am the champion...of the World!!!!

Yamaka you are one Crazy Frog!!!
Dont forget there is always a serpent waiting to get you!!!LOL


Remember this..life is always an illusion..

Oh by god lag gayi
Kya se kya hua
Dekha toh katora
Jhaanka toh kuaan

Piddi jaissa choohaa
Dum pakda toh nikla kala naag
Naag, naag naag,
Bhag Bhag Yamaka,Yamaka,Yamaka,Bhag Bhag Yamaka Yamaka,

Oh by god, I was damned,
became what from what I was,
looked like a bowl,
when peeked into, a well..

A tiny little mouse,
when I caught the tail, turned out to be a black snake,
snake snake..snake,
run run Yamaka,Yamaka,Yamaka,run run Yamaka,Yamaka.


[video=youtube_share;S_IAqwrvEuU]http://youtu.be/S_IAqwrvEuU[/video]

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

The problem with this philosophy of "winner" and "loser" is that it it encourages competitive mode of thinking. That is definitely not good for lasting peace. It is a double edged one. You can be a winner today. What if you become a loser tomorrow? Can you then talk about your bragging rights as you do today?

So why not be equanimous always? This can be achieved only by not getting emotionally attached to the worldly things.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

The problem with this philosophy of "winner" and "loser" is that it it encourages competitive mode of thinking. That is definitely not good for lasting peace. It is a double edged one. You can be a winner today. What if you become a loser tomorrow? Can you then talk about your bragging rights as you do today?

So why not be equanimous always? This can be achieved only by not getting emotionally attached to the worldly things.

Dear Shravna:

1. You asked "What if you become a loser tomorrow?"

I will not wilt in sorrow, for sure... but I would analyze why things didn't work out.

2. If I make mistakes then I will rectify, and move on... "my bragging rights" are what I already earned! Lol.

3. Some people can be equanimous always... I don't have problem with that... after all, I am attached to this world - the real world - I want to enjoy the ride!

Maybe, what you say is good for those who think that this world is a TRANSIENT; they are waiting to live WELL in the "other world", which I think is non-existent....

We belong to two different school of thought, I suppose.

Cheers.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shravna:

1. You asked "What if you become a loser tomorrow?"

I will not wilt in sorrow, for sure... but I would analyze why things didn't work out.

2. If I make mistakes then I will rectify, and move on... "my bragging rights" are what I already earned! Lol.

3. Some people can be equanimous always... I don't have problem with that... after all, I am attached to this world - the real world - I want to enjoy the ride!

Maybe, what you say is good for those who think that this world is a TRANSIENT; they are waiting to live WELL in the "other world", which I think is non-existent....

We belong to two different school of thought, I suppose.

Cheers.

Dear Shri Yamaka,

You belong to a rare breed of people who are affected by good things and not by bad things. Hats off to you for that! I really mean it. The reason hinduism teaches us to be equanimous is to not wilt in sorrow when bad things happen. If you are able to do that and enjoy good things you are close to being unique.

 

[sravna]

Also Shri Yamaka, it is wrong thinking that we forsake enjoyment while being detached. One does derive enjoyment when being detached, the enjoyment being of subtle variety which we can say is a higher level of enjoyment. It is the feeling of total peace. But the enjoyment you derive by acquiring, I think is of a coarser variety.

But I think not being affected by bad things is a major step towards being totally detached.

 

[renuka]

Also Shri Yamaka, it is wrong thinking that we forsake enjoyment while being detached. One does derive enjoyment when being detached, the enjoyment being of subtle variety which we can say is a higher level of enjoyment. It is the feeling of total peace. But the enjoyment you derive by acquiring, I think is of a coarser variety.

But I think not being affected by bad things is a major step towards being totally detached.

Enjoyment derived from attachment binds and we acquire merit or demerit depending on the action.

On the other hand Detachment confers Existence,Consciousness and Bliss.(Sat-Cit-Ananda)

 

[renuka]

In a way some Atheist who rectify their mistakes when faced with lifes up and downs are much better than many believers who blame God when things go wrong!!!(but I have no idea what made anyone an Atheist in the 1st place..by "thinking" or becos of any specific disappointing incident in life.??..God only knows!!!)

 

[renuka]

One who is attached is a Lokanaatha(King) and also a Lokanaatha(Beggar).
Same word Lokanaatha gives two meanings.

Lokanaatha(King)-Lokaanaam naatha(The Lord of the people/world)

Lokanaatha(Beggar)-Loka naatha yasya sah(he whose patrons are the people/world)

 

[C RAVI]

(but I have no idea what made anyone an Atheist in the 1st place..by "thinking" or becos of any specific disappointing incident in life.??..God only knows!!!)

As far as I could know, the reason behind Atheism is to be assertive with thoughts, actions and reactions. Science and the mental caliber of scientists is playsing some vital role in acheiving these. The process is towards getting to know the unknown in due course of time by scientific explorations.

A Theist can have the mind set to accept success and failure without thanking and accusing God respectively and so a Atheist can.

The theists with belief in self Karma of the past and present would be in spirituality in true spirit and understanding. Atheists with no belief in Karma theory would not require to be in spirituality. They are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions...Bravo!!!!!

 

[Brahin]

"If you seek you need the external world and your happiness or peace is not totally in your hands. On the contrary if you shun you could the sole master of your happiness and peace. The catch is, you could be the emperor of the universe but not so easily be the ruler of your senses and mind." Sravna post 344.

I am not an island.. I am a Social Animal... external world is already there, and I have learnt to deal with that world.

I seek to negotiate with my external world or control it in such a way "I am the Master of my Own Destiny".

My senses are in my control as I am a fully grown and well informed adult... and am an asset to humanity, IMO!

Where's the problem?

Cheers.

Dear Yamaka,

Can you please explain how you are an asset to humanity?

 

[sangom]

As far as I could know, the reason behind Atheism is to be assertive with thoughts, actions and reactions. Science and the mental caliber of scientists is playsing some vital role in acheiving these. The process is towards getting to know the unknown in due course of time by scientific explorations.

A Theist can have the mind set to accept success and failure without thanking and accusing God respectively and so a Atheist can.

The theists with belief in self Karma of the past and present would be in spirituality in true spirit and understanding. Atheists with no belief in Karma theory would not require to be in spirituality. They are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions...Bravo!!!!!

Dear Shri Ravi,

Whether God really exists cannot be proven by any theist I suppose. Even if there is some theist who can bring God into visual presence, so far no such person has come forward publicly to demonstrate the existence of God to the non-believers. Besides, God according to theist belief is the all-encompassing Supreme Reality, is it not? How can that Reality change itself to a finite shape? And, for an advaitin, how can that one and only Reality transform itself into any shape in this world which is Maaya and hence antithesis to the very Reality of being God?

So, imho, there is no point in theists (like you) trying to convince the atheists that your notions and beliefs about God are true and have to be adhered to. If as a theist Hindu citizen of today, you believe that all that is here is Brahman the Supreme God's (sarvam khalu idam brahma), does it not automatically follow that the atheists are also as much the creation of the same Brahman as you or any of your theist friends are? So, why should you and your theist friends go on disputing whether theistic belief is better and grander or whether the atheist are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions, etc?

IMHO, if the theistic beliefs are really valid - rationally or spiritually only - the atheists will in due course change and come over to your side. But merely trying to advertise your stock in trade, without ensuring its quality and utility is not a successful way to get atheists drawn over to your side.

In my very limited perception atheists should serve as touchstones for both theists (like you) and agnostics (like me) to evaluate our respective belief systems. I therefore welcome and respect the atheists. I don't have any need for one-upmanship vis-a-vis the atheist.

 

[saidevo]

You said in post #349:
Your Book "Searching for the Origin of Life" concludes that some "outside information" is needed to give life...and for the Believers it's the Creator from somewhere who provides this "outside information".

Can you tell me more about this "outside information" as you understand it?

To have an idea of what this 'outside information' (of multi-dimensional consciousness) involves, you need to look beyond three-dimensional space.

Here is an extract from the book The Astral Body by Arthur E.Powell (ch.18: The Fourth Dimension):-

For those who have made no study of this subject we may give here the very barest outline of some of the main features underlying the fourth dimension.

A point, which has “position but no magnitude”, has no dimensions: a line, created by the movement of a point, has one dimension, length: a surface, created by the movement of a line, at right angles to itself, has two dimensions, length and breadth: a solid, created by the movement of a surface at right angles to itself, has three dimensions, length, breadth and thickness. [Page 164]

A tesseract is a hypothetical object, created by the movement of a solid, in a new direction at right angles to itself, having four dimensions, length, breadth, thickness and another, at right angles to these three, but incapable of being represented in our world of three dimensions.

Many of the properties of a tesseract can be deduced, according to the following table:—

properties of a tesseract--Points--Lines--Surfaces--Solids
A Point has 1
A Line has 2--1
A Four-sided surface has 4--4--1
A Cube has 8--12--6--1
A Tesseract has 16--32--24--8

The tesseract, as described by C. H. Hinton, is stated by C. W. Leadbeater to be a reality, being quite a familiar figure on the astral plane. In Some Occult Experiences by J. Van Manen, an attempt is made to represent a 4-dimensional globe graphically.

There is a close and suggestive parallel between phenomena which could be produced by means of a three-dimensional object in a hypothetical world of two dimensions inhabited by a being conscious only of two dimensions, and many astral phenomena as they appear to us living in the physical or three-dimensional world. Thus:

(1) Objects, by being lifted through the third dimension, could be made to appear in or disappear from the two-dimensional world at will.

(2) An object completely surrounded by a line could be lifted out of the enclosed space through the third dimension.

(3) By bending a two-dimensional world, represented by a sheet of paper, two distant points could be brought together, or even made to coincide, thus destroying the two-dimensional conception of distance.

(4) A right-handed object could be turned over through the third dimension and made to re-appear as a left-handed object.

(5) By looking down, from the third dimension, on to a two-dimensional object, every point of the [Page 165] latter could be seen at once, and free from the distortion of perspective.

To a being limited to a conception of two dimensions, the above would appear “ miraculous”, and completely incomprehensible.

It is curious that precisely similar tricks can be and are constantly being played upon us, as is well known to spiritualists: (1) entities and objects appear and disappear: (2) “ apports” of articles from great distances are made: (3) articles are removed from closed boxes: (4) space appears to be practically annihilated; (5) an object can be reversed, i.e., a right hand turned into a left hand: (6) all parts of an object, e.g., of a cube, are seen simultaneously and free from all distortion of perspective: similarly the whole of the matter of a closed book can be seen at once.

The explanation of the welling-up of force, e.g., in Chakrams, apparently from nowhere, is of course that it comes from the fourth dimension.

A liquid, poured on to a surface, tends to spread itself out in two dimensions, becoming very thin in the third dimension. Similarly a gas tends to spread itself in three dimensions, and it may be that in so doing it becomes smaller in the fourth dimension: i.e., the density of a gas may be a measure of its relative thickness in the fourth dimension.

It is clear that there is no need to stop at four dimensions: for all we know, there may be infinite dimensions of space. At any rate, it seems certain that the astral world is four-dimensional, the mental five-dimensional, and the buddhic six-dimensional.

It should be clear that if there are, say, seven dimensions at all, there are seven dimensions always and everywhere: i.e., there is no such thing as a third or fourth-dimensional being. The apparent difference is due to the limited power of perception of the entity concerned, not to any change in the objects perceived. This idea is very well worked out in Tertium Organum by Ouspensky. [Page 166]

Nevertheless a man may develop astral consciousness and still be unable to perceive or appreciate the fourth dimension. In fact it is certain that the average man does not perceive the fourth dimension at all when he enters the astral plane. He realises it only as a certain blurring, and most men go through their astral lives without discovering the reality of the fourth dimension in the matter surrounding them.
...
Time is not in reality the fourth dimension at all: yet to regard the problem from the point of view of time is some slight, help towards understanding it. The passage of a cone through a sheet of paper would appear to an entity living on the sheet of paper as a circle altering in size: the entity would of course be incapable of perceiving all the stages of the circle as existing together as parts of one cone. Similarly for us the growth of a solid object viewed from the buddhic plane corresponds to the view of the cone as a whole, and thus throws some light on our own delusion of past, present and future, and on the faculty of prevision.
...
With four-dimensional sight it may be observed that the planets which are isolated in our three-dimensions are four-dimensionally joined, these globes being in fact the points of petals which are part of one great flower: hence the Hindu conception of the solar system as a lotus.

There is also, viâ a higher dimension, a direct connection between the heart of the sun and the centre of the earth, so that elements appear in the earth without passing through what we call the surface.

Also check this '4D Spheres':
Samvado - Wood turning and scuplture

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Ravi,

Whether God really exists cannot be proven by any theist I suppose. Even if there is some theist who can bring God into visual presence, so far no such person has come forward publicly to demonstrate the existence of God to the non-believers. Besides, God according to theist belief is the all-encompassing Supreme Reality, is it not? How can that Reality change itself to a finite shape? And, for an advaitin, how can that one and only Reality transform itself into any shape in this world which is Maaya and hence antithesis to the very Reality of being God?

So, imho, there is no point in theists (like you) trying to convince the atheists that your notions and beliefs about God are true and have to be adhered to. If as a theist Hindu citizen of today, you believe that all that is here is Brahman the Supreme God's (sarvam khalu idam brahma), does it not automatically follow that the atheists are also as much the creation of the same Brahman as you or any of your theist friends are? So, why should you and your theist friends go on disputing whether theistic belief is better and grander or whether the atheist are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions, etc?

IMHO, if the theistic beliefs are really valid - rationally or spiritually only - the atheists will in due course change and come over to your side. But merely trying to advertise your stock in trade, without ensuring its quality and utility is not a successful way to get atheists drawn over to your side.

In my very limited perception atheists should serve as touchstones for both theists (like you) and agnostics (like me) to evaluate our respective belief systems. I therefore welcome and respect the atheists. I don't have any need for one-upmanship vis-a-vis the atheist.

Shri Sangom,

You seem to have terribly mistaken me!!!!!!!

I have well stated in "GOD EXISTS" thread that we Theists consider our Atheist humanists very much equal to us as God created. We theist very much beleive that Humans are all same and differ only by their thoughts and actions, living this physical world irrespective of holding belief in GOD or not, whether involve in spirituality or not.


Shri Sangom,

Can you tell me where I have, as a theist made constant efforts to convience Atheists to join hands with we theists? If that is what to be understood from my posts where I share my belief on GOD/Spirituality/Karma etc., can I say that Atheists like you are fighting tooth and nail to conveince we theists to withdraw all such of our belief and surrender ourself to the Mighty Science with all our senses in a single track of Adventure?

Shri Sangom,

I appreciate your middle path. I appreciate your sense of welcoming and respecting atheists.

It's fine that in this controversial debate you are taking a role of equalizer and probably that's how may be you are in real.

Every theists like me admire science and technology and respect scientists. But we don't rule out the existence of God and the concept of Karma. For us, Science and Scientists are the gift from GOD for the human kind. And in debate like this we would present our case as opponents with our belief and the same, the other side is doing.

I am surprised to get some sort of feelings that you are upset with the theists who are presenting/sharing their belief here.

When I concluded in my previous post, saying - "They (atheists) are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions...Bravo!!!!!", their isn't any taunting. But a note of appreciation as how refined the souls are that are contributing to the human kind by their scientific explorations and continue to be humanists (who all are).

Theists and Atheists have their own ways. No one need to/can convince and control the other. But the debate is called debate only when both the sides present themselves with all their understandings, knowledge and belief.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

According to Advaita everything in reality is one thing and it is God. Physical world is a concomitant reality of spiritual world. It is more or less though not in the exact way just as a shadow is related to the object producing it. Without the object there is no shadow. In the same way without spiritual reality there is no physical reality. The body is an approximation or a projection of what a soul is just as physical reality is a projection of brahman. To realize the exact spiritual reality the constraints of space and time have to be removed.

Now to your question how brahman transforms in to various shapes, the answer is there is no real "transformation" happening. Physical realities are concomitant with spiritual reality. Just as we need the experiences of the body as the basis of our happiness, the physical reality is the substratum or the basis of the blissful experience of brahman. Brahman exists at different levels of consciousness and the physical realities are the lower levels of consciousness of brahman. The important point is the consciousness at the lower levels are passing phases and finally become one with the supreme consciousness. Again these phases exist because these form the basis of brahman's experience and the basis of the engrainment of the ultimate truth, which is supreme consciousness is the complete reality. The illusion of space and time blind us to the fact that there is only one reality but we learn the truth eventually.

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

You seem to have terribly mistaken me!!!!!!!


Theists and Atheists have their own ways. No one need to/can convince and control the other. But the debate is called debate only when both the sides present themselves with all their understandings, knowledge and belief.

Originally Posted by renuka (but I have no idea what made anyone an Atheist in the 1st place..by "thinking" or becos of any specific disappointing incident in life.??..God only knows!!!)

As far as I could know, the reason behind Atheism is to be assertive with thoughts, actions and reactions. Science and the mental caliber of scientists is playsing some vital role in acheiving these. The process is towards getting to know the unknown in due course of time by scientific explorations.

A Theist can have the mind set to accept success and failure without thanking and accusing God respectively and so a Atheist can.

The theists with belief in self Karma of the past and present would be in spirituality in true spirit and understanding. Atheists with no belief in Karma theory would not require to be in spirituality. They are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions...Bravo!!!!!

Shri Ravi,

I give rxtracts from Smt. Renuka's post - which you had excerpted yourself - and your post, again. It will be seen that Smt. renuka wondered what makes some people atheists; may be she is convinced that there can be no one without a religion, faith in one God or another.

Your comments to her post did not furnish any valid reason or explanation. On the contrary I found a veiled attempt to heckle Shri Yamaka's different statements. If that was not your intention and my feeling was wrong (it is for readers to judge) I request your excuse.

 

[Nara]

...According to Advaita everything in reality ........ .

sravna, a small correction, please rephrase the above as "According to my version of Advaita" -- then there is no problem with the rest of what you say. As we have already discussed at length, your version of Advaitam has no resemblance to that of Adi Sankara.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi,

I give rxtracts from Smt. Renuka's post - which you had excerpted yourself - and your post, again. It will be seen that Smt. renuka wondered what makes some people atheists; may be she is convinced that there can be no one without a religion, faith in one God or another.

Your comments to her post did not furnish any valid reason or explanation. On the contrary I found a veiled attempt to heckle Shri Yamaka's different statements. If that was not your intention and my feeling was wrong (it is for readers to judge) I request your excuse.

Shri Sangom,

There is no need for me to make a veil attempt to hackle Shri Yamaka's different statement. Personally I have high regard for him as elderly person and admiration for the level of his assirtiveness as well as humanist tendencies.


By mentioning - - - - -

As far as I could know, the reason behind Atheism is to be assertive with thoughts, actions and reactions. Science and the mental caliber of scientists is playing some vital role in acheiving these. The process is towards getting to know the unknown in due course of time by scientific explorations.

A Theist can have the mind set to accept success and failure without thanking and accusing God respectively and so a Atheist can.

The theists with belief in self Karma of the past and present would be in spirituality in true spirit and understanding. Atheists with no belief in Karma theory would not require to be in spirituality. They are the masters of their own Thoughts, Emotions, Actions and Reactions...Bravo!!!!!


---------------

I was implying the superiority of their strong, practical, logical & stable mental intellect that need not to succumb to believe scientifically unproven concept of GOD/KARMA, under any circumstances in their personal life.

I have clearly stated that Atheism is the faith in scientific and practical assertion that stimulates their thoughts, actions and reactions in affirmation. And in my conclusion, I have stated that, with such practical and scientific assertion, they abviously dont need to believe in karma theory and spirituality and hence they are the masters of their own thoughts, emotions, actions and reactions.

I made such a conclusion because that's what been presented here by the opposite group in rebuttal to the concept of GOD/KARMA.


Shri Sangom,

Please dont embrasse me by requesting for my excuse. I have high regard and respect for you. For what ever way you or any elderly members here understand my post and get certian feelings and for that, post something, addressing me in response, I would never have the sense of being accused/mistaken to the extent that I would be expecting such members to request for my excuse. But, I would certainly be clarifying my stand, the way I feel as deem fit.