Theory of Karma

[Nara]

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.....what do you think about the multi-layer level of physical reality posited by the microleptons theory?

Saidevo, there are lots of pseudo-sciences out there, each claiming to be science based, Astrology being one. I don't believe in any of that.

The scientific community through their long standing commitment to careful observation, analysis, verifiability, peer evaluation, practical benefits (and sometimes practical horror) have earned our respect and our trust. So, IMO, unless microleptons theory, or any other theory for that matter, goes through the rigors of scientific inquiry and validation, has to remain pseudo-science.

BTW, I can only subjectively answer your question about the religion

Yes, this can be answered only subjectively. I do concede religion offers a level of solace from our troubles. This solace being out of a delusion may not matter much to individuals, but it does matter at a philosophical level. Religion has wrought too many horrors upon soceity and that is too high a price to pay for the solace that can be had by other means also if only we try.

I can't deny aything to anybody even if wanted to, and I wouldn't want to if I can. This is just shooting the breeze. I do agree, the society is not yet ready to give up on religion and spirituality, but what future holds, who can tell, they say the arc of history bends towards justice, to that I would like to add knowledge, critical thinking, and rationality.

Cheers!

 

[Govinda]

Shri Saidevo, Is not the Karma theory-cum-reincarnation a special feature of Hindu religion only? imo, no other religion allows the 'carry forward' idea. So, is not Karma a religious notion?

The understanding of Soul (Self in Vedas, is philosophical) in other religions mostly western were derived from other sources. Like the soul and body reunion is immortality acc. to Greek, egyptians mummified for physical immortal body etc. must have been the basis of abrahamic understanding of Soul. So, for them this life is only one, once dead, Jesus will resurrect the dead. So, they leave the body un-cremated. I would say those are their choice/understanding.

Whereas the Hindu idea of Karma was a vedic philosophy, the vedas/upanishads had the clear philosophy behind the Self, that is separate from many of our bodily subtle and gross elements, and had prescribed the steps to immortality based on such basis. Thus, they derived the explanation for rebirth. This was more of an inference on reality, based on research for the Rishis [you may not accept they were revealed Oops!], than any religious dogma. The understanding of Inner Self (Creator) who wills/grants and the Individual Self who desires is common to all living beings. Do animals know that, no? as they have a limited level of consciousness. Humans know that , as the level of consciousness varies , such understanding should vary too.

So, it is not a religious problem, it is a problem of understanding. Even our own understanding of Upanishads was varied, hence so many traditions. If it is a religious problem, why are there so many westerners who have fallen for our philosophies? I can give ample no. of such western authors - John Grimes obtained M.A. and Ph.D. from the University of Madras in Indian Philosophy and authored on advaita, C.J. Bartley on Ramanuja, Frank Morales on Vedic way of Knowing God , H.H.Wilson having headed Sanskrit studies, fought against the English Instruction.

 

[Yamaka]

"why are there so many westerners who have fallen for our philosophies? I can give ample no. of such western authors - John Grimes obtained M.A. and Ph.D. from [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]the [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]University[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] of Madras in Indian Philosophy and authored on advaita , C.J. Bartley on Ramanuja, Frank Morales on Vedic way of knowing Godetc..."

India has about 1 billion Hindus... they are divided into many Castes: Most worship the Puranic Gods and follow very many rituals to "bribe or please" their Gods; a small minority follows the philosophies of the Scriptures and Spirituality - these philosophies vary with place to place and to whom you listen to etc... some Vedic Scholars believe that Scriptures are very very hard to understand to know the REAL intent because it's all written in Sanskrit, a very difficult language!

West has nearly at least about 600 million people most of whom believe a generic God, thus they say "God We Trust".. for most of them Christmas is just another holiday to get gifts from Santa!!! Nothing more!

Of this 600 million people how many believe in the Indian Philosophy? Very very very few! A negligible number, IMO.

Can this withstand the test of simple logic?

 

[Govinda]

India has about 1 billion Hindus... they are divided into many Castes: Most observe the Puranic rituals and their Gods, a small minority follows the philosophies of the Scriptures and Spirituality.

Oops! you have a basic mis-understanding. All hindus understand karma-cum-reincarnation as part of their belief system and cremate the dead, and do rituals for the better life of Self, which may be reborn anywhere. Christians still believe that Jesus will resurrect them afterlife, and most of them still bury the dead. Hindus opting for electric cremation, Christians opting for cremation would be very rare. Atleast muslims wouldn't dare do that against their faith.

Can this withstand the test of simple logic? 

I don't understand what you are trying to convey here? Explain.

The vedic system/message was orally transferred to its descendents. People lived by its philosophical understanding and others followed them overtime in basic aspects of living, even if we don't know much on those deeper sAdhanA aspects. But, once such wisdom got published, translated, people became aware of them [like H.H. Wilson of British]. Plus, by recent global communication and travels, people had more exposure and trying to explore. India had always seen through many debates, reformations, adaptations. Whereas, the abrahamic faiths had severe punishments for apostasy even in withdrawal of daily routines. So, the chance of westerners adapting to karma theory cannot be more pronounced, rather than indians becoming more abrahamic. Until recently, Hinduism didn't involve in sharing the religious thoughts, whereas proselytization came easier for others.

 

[Yamaka]

Oops! you have a basic mis-understanding. All hindus understand karma-cum-reincarnation as part of their belief system and cremate the dead, and do rituals for the better life of Self, which may be reborn anywhere. Christians still believe that Jesus will resurrect them afterlife, and most of them still bury the dead. Hindus opting for electric cremation, Christians opting for cremation would be very rare. Atleast muslims wouldn't dare do that against their faith.



I don't understand what you are trying to convey here? Explain.

The vedic system/message was orally transferred to its descendents. People lived by its philosophical understanding and others followed them overtime in basic aspects of living, even if we don't know much on those deeper sAdhanA aspects. But, once such wisdom got published, translated, people became aware of them [like H.H. Wilson of British]. Plus, by recent global communication and travels, people had more exposure and trying to explore. India had always seen through many debates, reformations, adaptations. Whereas, the abrahamic faiths had severe punishments for apostasy even in withdrawal of daily routines. So, the chance of westerners adapting to karma theory cannot be more pronounced, rather than indians becoming more abrahamic. Until recently, Hinduism didn't involve in sharing the religious thoughts, whereas proselytization came easier for others.

Here is the mis-understanding in all this Philosophy of Poorva Janma Karma and Rebirth/Reincarnation:

1. Soul /Mind / "I"-Consciousness /Abstract Thinking & Analysis /Verbal & Mental Bombast etc are all the expressions of the specialized Sensory Neurons in the pre-frontal cortex human beings, as per current Neuroscience Research, with which I am a part of.

If you deprive these neurons oxygen or glucose (or other energy producing organic compounds) for about 4 minutes, they all will die...

Once these neurons die, Soul & the likes just vanishes.... Nobody can retrieve any information from this dead Soul... here is where the Believers of Religions come in and create confusion...

All man-made confusions... Reading the REAL meaning of Scriptures is another source of confusion.

2. By bringing the logic of a very very small number of Westerners "buying into" the Hindu Philosophy, then retreating to the reasoning that "westerners adapting to karma theory cannot be more pronounced" what do you really establish here?

Full disclosure: I have called "Poorva Janma Karma Theory" as a HOAX designed to cheat unsuspecting innocent people!

Cheers.

 

[Govinda]

1. Soul /Mind / "I"-Consciousness /Abstract Thinking & Analysis /Verbal & Mental Bombast etc are all the expressions of the specialized Sensory Neurons in the pre-frontal cortex human beings, as per current Neuroscience Research, with which I am a part of.

If you deprive these neurons oxygen or glucose (or other energy producing organic compounds) for about 4 minutes, they all will die...

Once these neurons die, Soul & the likes just vanishes.... Nobody can retrieve any information from this dead Soul...

This was already known to our seers, that the highest part of the brain is that deals with the Intellect, the area of reasoning, which is still the brain, and not the Self. The brain is the medium that delivers our Self/Personality [Consciousness], the most closest to Self may be Frontal Cortex. They didn't declare PrAnA (breath) as the Self either, naturally, when the flow of oxygen stops, all organs cease to function obviously. Self is an atomic entity, with consciousness spanning everywhere in our body across the parts of memory (temporal) to reasoning/emotions(frontal), and the bodily organs.

The karma begins from such scientific discoveries, you guys would manipulate those genes and destroy one's 'expression' of consciousness and even humanity.

"Julius described his discovery of the neurographic smudges and how they vanished when a creature's DNA was re-engineered, explaining his belief that the creature's soul was being destroyed by genetic manipulation of the embryo.
Julius explained how only 3% of human DNA was known to control the codes for creating the proteins that make up our bodies. This was the DNA defined in the human genome. The remaining three billion bases of DNA, the vast bulk of our human biological structure, he theorized, was a relic of earlier genes that had once controlled the codes for proteins but that evolution had made biologically irrelevant.
But, he wrote, that didn't make them irrelevant to the structure of the human soul. When genetic engineers changed the genes within a human embryo, Julius hypothesized that they altered the sensitive dynamic between the bases of the other 97% of DNA and, when they did so, the human soul, the innate harmony of the relationship between all these ancient DNA structures, could evaporate."

Soul Julius Schumacher

 

[Yamaka]

"Self is an atomic entity, with consciousness spanning everywhere in our body across the parts of memory (temporal) to reasoning/emotions(frontal), and the bodily organs.

The karma begins from such scientific discoveries, you guys would manipulate those genes and destroy one's 'expression' of consciousness and even humanity." -post 256

Where is the structural and functional basis of Janma Poorva Karma here?

What's Julius Schumacher's theory of JPK?

Peace.

ps. Simple Karma is just ACTION or behavior elicited by the motor neurons commanded by the Sensory Neurons via inter-neurons. Here we are talking about JPK and Rebirth of Soul & Body, I believe!

I also reject the assertion that Seers about 3000 years ago KNEW many of what we talk today!

 

[Yamaka]

"Julius described his discovery of the neurographic smudges and how they vanished when a creature's DNA was re-engineered, explaining his belief that the creature's soul was being destroyed by genetic manipulation of the embryo.
Julius explained how only 3% of human DNA was known to control the codes for creating the proteins that make up our bodies. This was the DNA defined in the human genome. The remaining three billion bases of DNA, the vast bulk of our human biological structure, he theorized, was a relic of earlier genes that had once controlled the codes for proteins but that evolution had made biologically irrelevant.
But, he wrote, that didn't make them irrelevant to the structure of the human soul. When genetic engineers changed the genes within a human embryo, Julius hypothesized that they altered the sensitive dynamic between the bases of the other 97% of DNA and, when they did so, the human soul, the innate harmony of the relationship between all these ancient DNA structures, could evaporate." -pst 256

What are the smudges in the Control animal in the Left?

What's that got stained or what structure do you see? Neuro-anatomically speaking what are we talking about here?

Can you explain those two Figures?

 

[Yamaka]

Hello ALL:

Normally, when the Neuro-Anatomists show a picture, they will say, "we took thin slices of brain or spinal cord (they will tell the thickness in microns) and stained it with either an antibody or some specific stain, to visualize a particular structure in the slice".

This will tell the reader as to what exactly we are seeing, and what's the difference between the control and the "treated or test material".

Critics would immediately focus on how specific is the Staining Procedure of the slices, before buying the conclusion of the author!

That's what's missing in this Schumacher's work, as presented.

That's all.

Cheers.

ps. For newer readers in this site, professionally speaking, I review manuscripts for publication in Journal of Neuroscience and other American Journals (at least one a month). Therefore, if someone shows some data, I know exactly what to look for and how to evaluate the soundness of their claims!

 

[Govinda]

Critics would immediately focus on how specific is the Staining Procedure of the slices, before buying the conclusion of the author!

I have also read about staining methods while reading about the works of Golgi and Cajal. I am no way related to medicine/practical science, to comment. In the above case also, he might have used the same stain in both cases and explained he repeated the tests multiple times and I am not going to argue on that either.

I just gave an example/picture to show, soul/consciousness must be something like a separate global entity representing the individual than a specific physical organ/material. Science may even come up with a tool to visualize the deeper horizons.

Where is the structural and functional basis of Janma Poorva Karma here?

Rather, Is what I should answer.

 

[Yamaka]

I have also read about staining methods while reading about the works of Golgi and Cajal. I am no way related to medicine/practical science, to comment. In the above case also, he might have used the same stain in both cases and explained he repeated the tests multiple times and I am not going to argue on that either.

I just gave an example/picture to show, soul/consciousness must be something like a separate global entity representing the individual than a specific physical organ/material. Science may even come up with a tool to visualize the deeper horizons.


Rather, Is what I should answer.

To me whatever it is, the left picture is NOT in focus and perhaps the right picture is in better focus..!!

It could all be explained as an "Error or Noise from the microscope or whatever was used to take the picture."

Anyway, we need to know more about it before we say anything meaningfully.

If you claim that the author has stained "soul/consciousness" and found difference between a control and the test material (here perhaps from a transgenic animal), I am sorry to tell you

It's a FRAUD...-

No wonder Julius Schumacher has lost the respect of the scientific community.

Cheers.

 

[nachi naga]

That will be for the beneficiaries to decide.

One thing is certain; if such anti postings are aired in a muslim forum, the consequences can be violent and decapitating!

sarang,i am not sure who is anti-posting in a muslim forum?nor do i really know whether they are violent or decapitate!!i am just regular tam bram. here.

 

[renuka]

After reading some posts here all I can say is just like how the brain has a blood brain barrier the mind of some have a unseen barrier that just ricochets the "bullets of Truth".
Difference is Blood brain barrier filters harmful substance but the unseen barrier of the mind of some, filters what is badly needed.

No wonder Adishankara said "Pashyannapi Na Pashyanti Muddho"

 

[sangom]

After reading some posts here all I can say is just like how the brain has a blood brain barrier the mind of some have a unseen barrier that just ricochets the "bullets of Truth".
Difference is Blood brain barrier filters harmful substance but the unseen barrier of the mind of some, filters what is badly needed.

No wonder Adishankara said "Pashyannapi Na Pashyanti Muddho"

जटिलॊ मुण्डी लुञ्चित कॆशः
काषायाम्बर बहुकृत वॆषः ।
पश्यन्नपि च न पश्यति मूढॊ-
ह्युदरनिमित्तं बहुकृत वॆषः ॥

jaṭilo muṇḍī luñcita keśaḥ
kāṣāyāmbara bahukṛta veṣaḥ |
paśyannapi ca na paśyati mūḍho-
hyudaranimittaṃ bahukṛta veṣaḥ ||

An ascetic with matted locks, a person with shaven head, one more with hair pulled or plucked out and another parading with ochre or any other colour robes, all these are for a livelihood. They all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are indeed disguises and deceptions for the sake of filling one's stomach.

That was what Adishankara said, and it was about those who paraded themselves as religious, but were really interested in securing their livelihood (filling their stomach).

Don't you feel Sankara's remarks apply more aptly to those who have a blood-brain barrier which stops sane suggestions and from entering the brain matter and successfully keeps them in their pretensions of being true brahmins? They are the people who, though seeing all the changes happening to and in the tabra community, around them, still obstinately refuse to accept that reforms are the only course open to them ? IMHO, they are the eminent paśyannapi ca na paśyati mūḍhāh.

 

[renuka]

जटिलॊ मुण्डी लुञ्चित कॆशः
काषायाम्बर बहुकृत वॆषः ।
पश्यन्नपि च न पश्यति मूढॊ-
ह्युदरनिमित्तं बहुकृत वॆषः ॥

jaṭilo muṇḍī luñcita keśaḥ
kāṣāyāmbara bahukṛta veṣaḥ |
paśyannapi ca na paśyati mūḍho-
hyudaranimittaṃ bahukṛta veṣaḥ ||

An ascetic with matted locks, a person with shaven head, one more with hair pulled or plucked out and another parading with ochre or any other colour robes, all these are for a livelihood. They all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are indeed disguises and deceptions for the sake of filling one's stomach.

That was what Adishankara said, and it was about those who paraded themselves as religious, but were really interested in securing their livelihood (filling their stomach).

Don't you feel Sankara's remarks apply more aptly to those who have a blood-brain barrier which stops sane suggestions and from entering the brain matter and successfully keeps them in their pretensions of being true brahmins? They are the people who, though seeing all the changes happening to and in the tabra community, around them, still obstinately refuse to accept that reforms are the only course open to them ? IMHO, they are the eminent paśyannapi ca na paśyati mūḍhāh.

You know whats the best part of Sanathana Dharma? The is always some technical grounds on which we can be bailed out!!!

So my dear Sangom you being a learned member I can safely call you Viprah..hence my reply to you will be "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"
We can interpret the way we want!!! LOL


P.S..I am not included in the list of Viprahs yet..hope in some life I can be.

 

[sangom]

You know whats the best part of Sanathana Dharma? The is always some technical grounds on which we can be bailed out!!!

So my dear Sangom you being a learned member I can safely call you Viprah..hence my reply to you will be "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti"
We can interpret the way we want!!! LOL


P.S..I am not included in the list of Viprahs yet..hope in some life I can be.

viprah means one who has specialised knowledge, one who knows specially, expertly, etc., I think. In that sense you too are a vipraa, since you have the special knowledge of medicine.

But may be, to become a "dwijaa" either your caste of birth should allow or you may have to wait ... as you say. One who practices medicine and curing of diseases is not considered a blue blooded brahmin by Dharmasastras afaik.

 

[renuka]

viprah means one who has specialised knowledge, one who knows specially, expertly, etc., I think. In that sense you too are a vipraa, since you have the special knowledge of medicine.

But may be, to become a "dwijaa" either your caste of birth should allow or you may have to wait ... as you say. One who practices medicine and curing of diseases is not considered a blue blooded brahmin by Dharmasastras afaik.

My dear Sangom,

I dont want to be a Dwija or a Brahmana.Thats just a bodily indentification.
Didnt Adishankara sing :

[TABLE="width: 85%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 93%"]Na Me Mrityu Shanka Na Me Jati Bhedah
Pita Naiva Me Naiva Mata Na Janma
Na Bandhur Na Mitram Gurur Naiva Shishyah
Chidananda Rupa Shivoham Shivoham[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 85%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 93%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I know physicians are not in the "good" location in the the Varna Scale.

Thats fine with me..cos who needs a caste to know God but everyone surely needs a physician to sign their death certificate!!!

 

[happyhindu]

• Inasmuch as man evolved from the primates, why isn't this happening today? That is, why don't today's primates evolve into men and women as they supposedly did in a bygone age? Are there any experiments of crossbreeding between men and primates--genetical if not physical? Would this guarantee the creation of a primitive man?

• Only smt.HappyHindu chose to answer this question with a joke, indicating the uncertainty of such an experiment. I am surprised that our friends Yamaka and Nara, who talk so much about DNA and evolution, has not given their opinion.

• Since our non-believers do not believe in any metaphysical reality, I introduced an essay on the quantum mechanical concepts of microleptons registering our thoughts and karmic actions. Our friends have not given an opinion on this subject either.

Shri Saidevo,
Possibly you are referring to my post # 124. Please note my post said nothing about any experiment itself. Just that i on a personal note need not agree with specific experiments or their experimental design or their results.

Similarly i need not agree with "scriptures" either. Personally i wud not use the term "scriptures" in such a generalized way, since our "scriptures" can be so contradictory.

Here i would emphasize the problem of interpretation. For example, to you a particular portion of a particular purana means "apes descended from man". To a social anthropologist (or anyone who studies tribal totems, etc), it refers to "human clans using ape as their totem".

To you, fights among Gods (like Narasimha Swamy being killed by Sarabeswara as per Sarabha Upanishad of Atharva) may perhaps mean something else. To me, it may possibly mean an inter and/or an intra tribal fight and subsequent patch-up (like those between Kimpurushas / Kiratas and those using the yaali and saraba totem).

So it depends on the approach....IMO science and religion need not be at opposite ends. Am free to pick and choose portions of 'scriptures' that have already been validated (as true) by science.

As to your post / query, i beleive Sangom sir has elaborated his views in post # 125; which i also agree with. There are already ghost hunting instruments like EMF detectors and air ion measuring equipment.

Who knows in future scientists may develop devices to sense a 'soul'. What we think as "supernatural" today may be accepted as a routine fact supported by science in future. Or it may get refuted with strong evidence as well. So we just have to wait and watch.

Finally, reg your query abt cross-breeding experiments, i beleive i have already answered that in post # 197 (yes, there are).

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

This was already known to our seers, that the highest part of the brain is that deals with the Intellect, the area of reasoning, which is still the brain, and not the Self. The brain is the medium that delivers our Self/Personality [Consciousness], the most closest to Self may be Frontal Cortex. They didn't declare PrAnA (breath) as the Self either, naturally, when the flow of oxygen stops, all organs cease to function obviously. Self is an atomic entity, with consciousness spanning everywhere in our body across the parts of memory (temporal) to reasoning/emotions(frontal), and the bodily organs.

May i know which seers please ? Can you provide some evidence from brahmanical literature in support of your statements that such things were already known to "our" seers ?

The karma begins from such scientific discoveries, you guys would manipulate those genes and destroy one's 'expression' of consciousness and even humanity.

"Julius described his discovery of the neurographic smudges and how they vanished when a creature's DNA was re-engineered, explaining his belief that the creature's soul was being destroyed by genetic manipulation of the embryo.
Julius explained how only 3% of human DNA was known to control the codes for creating the proteins that make up our bodies. This was the DNA defined in the human genome. The remaining three billion bases of DNA, the vast bulk of our human biological structure, he theorized, was a relic of earlier genes that had once controlled the codes for proteins but that evolution had made biologically irrelevant.
But, he wrote, that didn't make them irrelevant to the structure of the human soul. When genetic engineers changed the genes within a human embryo, Julius hypothesized that they altered the sensitive dynamic between the bases of the other 97% of DNA and, when they did so, the human soul, the innate harmony of the relationship between all these ancient DNA structures, could evaporate."

Soul Julius Schumacher

Lets leave aside Julius Schumacher and his views. May i know which hindu seers have conveyed such things ?

On blogs and elsewhere, i come across claims that "our seers" knew about genetic defects and hence devised exogamy in gotras. Basically it is claimed that "our seers" knew everything. If they knew about genetics, did they advise against genetic manipulation? I would like to know which seers prohibitted genetic manipulation citing destruction of consciousness ??

Thanks.

 

[prasad1]

It is easy to criticize religion, as religion is a collection of practice over period of time.
Sometimes we forget that religion has given us great perspective of life, it depends on how we use it or misuse it.

We use steel to make the scalpel that saves life in the hand of a surgeon, the same steel made into a sword kills human in the hand of a butcher.

We have the intellect to choose. We can not blame the religion, just because atrocities have been committed in its name.

A rose comes with thorns, if you want to dwell on thorn it is your problem. I would rather enjoy the rose.

I read it somewhere:

"You are not using your intelligence to reach the peak of your consciousness, to become peaceful and loving. You are using your intelligence to drive yourself and others crazy."

 

[sangom]

namaste shrI Sangom.

I think you forgot to mention Buddhism, which is less religious and more spiritual, and admits k&r theory. Theosophy too admits it, and perhaps the Gnostic Christianity and Sufi Islam too, but I am not sure.

Shri Saidevo,

I think the Buddhist interpretation of k&r is materially different from the hindu view. Buddhism does not admit existence of soul and its rebirth. I have read that Buddha was always reluctant to discuss the topic of rebirth. Just fyi the following small para may be relevant:—

"Finally, I would like to distinguish rebirth from transmigration. You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. We do not believe in a self that is reborn. This is why when we explain rebirth, we make use of examples which do not require the transmigration of an essence or a substance. For example, when a sprout is born from a seed, there is no substance that transmigrates. The seed and the sprout are not identical. Similarly, when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second. When one billiard ball strikes another, there is a continuity, the energy and direction of the first ball is imparted to the second. It is the cause of the second billiard ball moving in a particular direction and at a particular speed. When we step twice into a river, it is not the same river and yet there is continuity, the continuity of cause and effect. So there is rebirth, but not transmigration. There is moral responsibility, but not an independent, permanent self." (Fundamentals of Buddhism: Rebirth)

Of course theosophy is full of reincarnation but is it considered a religion? Gnostics believed in reincarnation, but was karma concept there? I am also not sure of sufism.

 

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

Here are some interesting links, specially for the believers, that speak about the role of karma in human genetics.

Genetics and Karma
Genetics and Karma | atma yogi

Functions of Genes on all 24 Chromosomes
HereNow4U.net :: Books Online | The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics | [3.2] Classification Of Genes | Functions of Genes on all 24 Chromosomes

The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics (book)
HereNow4U.net :: Books Online | The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics

 

[happyhindu]

namaste everyone.

Here are some interesting links, specially for the believers, that speak about the role of karma in human genetics.

Genetics and Karma
Genetics and Karma | atma yogi

Functions of Genes on all 24 Chromosomes
HereNow4U.net :: Books Online | The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics | [3.2] Classification Of Genes | Functions of Genes on all 24 Chromosomes

The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics (book)
HereNow4U.net :: Books Online | The Jaina Doctrine of Karma And The Science Of Genetics

Shri Saidevo,

The first link and the third link mention upanishads (the first link mentions BG also). Upanishads are vedic to vedic-believers (though am puzzled what is vedic in it...but anyways, lets leave that aside and look at the karma-genetics linkage alone). The second link is purely fantastical.

Shri Saidevo, all content of those 3 links are sheer speculation. Am not sure if you saying these links are stating facts? If yes, please could you say which parts of them do you think are true and why?

Regards.

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Sangom.

When SiddhArtha Buddha himself has spoken about his past lives, it seems to me that the continuation of consciousness in physical entities due to universal karma is different only in terminology to the continuation of individual consciousness as individual selves.

I am not much familiar with Buddhism, but it seems that its different schools have differing ideas about rebirth:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddha-teachingsurw6.pdf (ch.24)
Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm

 

[sangom]

namaste shrI Sangom.

When SiddhArtha Buddha himself has spoken about his past lives, it seems to me that the continuation of consciousness in physical entities due to universal karma is different only in terminology to the continuation of individual consciousness as individual selves.

I am not much familiar with Buddhism, but it seems that its different schools have differing ideas about rebirth:
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddha-teachingsurw6.pdf (ch.24)
Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm

Shri Saidevo,

There is some missing link in the Buddhist concept of transmigration. Buddhism does not believe in soul or any such continuance from one birth to another. So, the hindu concept of the same soul, atma or jeeva taking a new birth to experience its karmic effects is not plausible in terms of the Buddhist tenets. What is envisaged, as succinctly given in the extract I cited, is that the karma of one person A lights the origination of another life B, just as one lamp can go on lighting any numbers of other lamps. (Sometimes, reading the various posts here in support of brahminism, I wonder whether the hypocrisy of these people itself is not giving rise to BB thinking in many others, as per the Buddhistic concept! Hence, I think it will not be relevant or sufficient - may be heretical - to support the upanishadic doctrine of karma and transmigration IMO.)