Theory of Karma

[nachi naga]

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asian americans,in particular indian americans show greater flexibility in navigating their lives in usa.as parents education is a must for our kids at least most tambrams or just brams drill and din it,imho.the scope is enormous,facilities to get ahead is just mind boggling.the society encourages every child equally though i must say,high school is one of the tuffest for kids when they grow,things are so raw,as parents its quiet a big deal.suicide is a cowardly action,i know not many ppl attempt,but i have been in close contact with individuals who did this stupid act?the galling part is,instead of owning up their misconstrued behaviour,the blame was promptly dumped on another person!!? such fragile mind needs a doctor in life to shape them,i guess.

 

[Yamaka]

I agree with your post and do congratulate you on raising two successful kids.

What would have happened if one turned out to be mass murderer? Would it your fault. We do provide a nurturing environment for our kids but it is their karma how they turn out to be. Do you know that Asian american kids have the highest number of suicide among school age children. Majority of the kids interviewed after unsuccessful attempt point to the pressure of parental expectation.

We gave them education, support, and all kinds of other worldly knowledge about sport, finance, culture and religion (as much as we know). But also told them that they can choose what they want to do. How they do it, or what they do is strictly their business.""

Hi Raj:

What would have happened if one or both turned out to be mass murderer(s)?

My guess is most probably they would not... because they did not! Lol

My view is in my and my wife's chromosomes there is "no evidence of mass murder gene" as per the known records!

And, their fetal development was "Normal" as per OB GYN's records.

For the first 18 years, parents were their First Teachers, who behaved WELL & RIGHT before their eyes and understanding...

Yes, there are higher "suicidal rate" among Asian American kids... but I don't know the REAL cause!

To some extent, yes, parental high expectation could be the reason....

Our approach has been one of Nurturing, Love, Music, Sports, Laughter and Academic Engagement... all seamlessly incorporated so that they loved every day what they did!

We were never that "Tiger Mom" - the Chinese mother who raised two daughters with lots of abuse!

Yes, at the end of the day, irrespective of what parents do, what kids ingested in them is the key.

Cheers.

ps. My personal battle has been with the parents of the religious TB parents who are my friends, critiques and competitors --- We always tend to compare how our kids turned out to be without any God and Religious environment at home... many TBs gave regular religious sermons and Sanskrit lessons to their kids - believing that God will make them "better" than any other kid.... that turned out to be FALSE, after 18 years of Experimentation....after going to College, many TB kids totally ignored all the Gods and religiosity and their love for Sanskrit, which really angers most of these religious TBs around me... their relationship with their kids also have dramatically deteriorated.... that's the story behind the story! Lol

 

[prasad1]

Ref post#177
We have so many temples in north America, we also have lot of mortgage for the next generations. Unfortunately they do not share this view and very few come back to participate in the organization. Thanks to the new immigrants these institutions are thriving. But it is worrisome development.

It is not just TB kids, it is common to all Hindus.

 

[saidevo]

namaste Nara.

Oh come on, Nara! You know that what I am saying might not be retrofitting after all. Alright, let us look at this your and Yamaka's way.

• When you say "men the world over were physically strong and were able to dominate", they have been so because of their genes, and thus the male proclivity towards family trees might have evolved. Science has only discovered it much later and vindicated the practice, right?

• And then I am surprised you have used a starkly religious word 'emancipation': "With more emancipation and gender equality this practice is slowly changing." Did you mean "with more evolution"? The 'Eve gene' discovery poses a question, however: if the most ancient human being was a lone female, how did she produce her progeny? Of course, this question arises in the case of a most ancient and lone male human.

Yes, I do hold science in high esteem: because it discovers and organizes into empirical knowledge what human consciousness--be it religious, spiritual or just primitive--has known and said or did much earlier in time. If everything connected with man is in his genes, why exclude and trash his proclivity towards religion and spirituality?

 

[Yamaka]

namaste Yamaka.

In post #92, I asked you to highlight any precise definitions that science might have about Nature and Universe.

You came up with this personal opinion in post #95:
By Nature or Universe, I mean everything I have "in me and around me" - including all the living beings AND abiotic materials all of which obey the laws of physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology/medicine, astronomy etc etc., including the Sun, Moon and the milky way....including all that present before my time....

I notice from your post #130 that you are unable to place the role of Freewill as you do not believe in the transcendental karma theory and leave it--not to fate but--Nature. You said further,

My considered view is Nature.... and what I have learned over million years thru Biological Evolution...

• How do you know that you have learned over million years? Does this mean, you as your own special genetical setup was existing all through these million years? If this is so, it would mean reincarnation of the scientific self! If this is no, in what way are you sure about the evolution of your own genetic self through Nature? Is it not just a belief--which is no different from the belief of your opposite camp?

• Another question. If Nature is the Cause of all forms and actions in the universe, would you admit that Nature has a universal consciousness of her own? Or everything is just random play? At least in the case of sentient beings you might say that they are what they are today by a long porcess of trial-and-error evolution. How did the insentient matter and energy originate and evolve from Nature into what they are today? Considering the better order that prevails in the insentient world of Nature, than in the sentient world, how could this insentient world have come about: by random play or by an orderly thinking of a universal consciousness?

In any case it seems that you need to be certain about Nature having or not having a universal consciousness. In Hindu Dharma, Nature as prakRti is jaDa--insentient; she is activated by the puruSha when he unites with her as consciousness.

Dear Saidevo:

1. "How do you know that you have learned over million years? "

I know this because I am a product of Biological Evolution which has been happening for over millions of years.

As I wrote before, all "that learned via Biological Evolution is imprinted in my chromosomes" which is transferred to the progeny unless members of the lineage decided NOT to have kids.

No, this has nothing to do with Reincarnation of Soul, as propounded and practiced by Hinduism.

No, Biological Evolution is not a Belief... typical Beliefs are Hinduism, Islam and Christianity as explained in their Holy Books (of Vedas, Purana and Upanishards) which I have been saying as "All Man-Made Stories"!

You use terms that would confuse lots of people:

What do you mean by Universal Consciousness? I have already said that Soul/Consciousness is the product of Sensory Neurons in the brain.

Like a Forest, when neurons come together, they all together GAIN unique properties not present in individual neurons etc etc.

One thing I can say for sure, the world was NOT created in a week in the month of October about 5000 years ago, as propounded in the Old Testament... I don't know what Hinduism says about this date!

There are very many theories in Science as to how the world came into existence and how we all evolved from the "soup" of nitrogenous compounds with help of energy from Sun. Please Google and you will get plenty of reading material on this.

You may read them and see whether any of them makes sense to you... I believe in the Biological Evolution and the laws of Nature being the ultimate Authority in All - as a Naturalist...

I reject the Supernatural Power Theory of a Creator - let it be called as Ishwara or Allah or Jesus!

And this Power expecting poojas, prayers and all sorts of rituals all day long from the Believers!

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

ps. My personal battle has been with the parents of the religious TB parents who are my friends, critiques and competitors --- We always tend to compare how our kids turned out to be without any God and Religious environment at home... many TBs gave regular religious sermons and Sanskrit lessons to their kids - believing that God will make them "better" than any other kid.... that turned out to be FALSE, after 18 years of Experimentation....after going to College, many TB kids totally ignored all the Gods and religiosity and their love for Sanskrit, which really angers most of these religious TBs around me... their relationship with their kids also have dramatically deteriorated.... that's the story behind the story! Lol

Dear Y,

I feel it was perfectly alright for tabra parents of the earlier generations to teach their children slokas, sanskrit lessons, religious sermons, mythological stories and all that because in those days the children who grew up as brahmin youth (male or female) could make a living with such accomplishments and the field for them was very very narrow.

But today, the world has undergone a sea-change, particularly in the last 20 or 30 years of computerisation, satellite technology and so on, that children will feel badly cheated if they are fed the same old prescription of slokas, sanskrit lessons, religious sermons, mythological stories, etc., which have very little role to play in their getting settled in life. It will be like a mother trying to breast-feed a grown-up child of ten years

My children, being avid readers, grew up on lots of Amar chitra katha and chandamama, etc. They used to ask certain very tricky questions relating to our mythology but my wife and I used to plainly tell them that these are just stories, products of somebody's imagination, so please don't ask us to explain the rationale. If you want to believe that Vishnu came as half man and half lion, OK but do not ask why he could not have had human face and leonine body, and please do not read these things if they frighten you.

They are now all (more than) fully grown up; one likes teravada buddhism more than brahminism or hinduism, another is a NRI hindu but has no brahmin feelings or airs, and the third is a follower of Aurobindo.

 

[prasad1]

Ref post#181.
Be careful with your faith in science you may not be allowed in Texas, and if Perry wins the next election in USA (LOL). ""

 

[prasad1]

Refer post#108
"It will be like a [FONT=inherit !important] [FONT=inherit !important]mother[/FONT][/FONT] trying to breast-feed a grown-up child of ten years"
You think this funny!!!

I know of a mother who is breast feeding her 9 years old boy even outside her house. We tried to dissuade her, but we got brushed off as her doctor recommended it. This mother has a Phd in psychology and her husband is a surgeon. Both side of the family is highly qualified and are not able to influence the mother.

 

[Yamaka]

Can a Self-Proclaimed Atheist be a moral and normal person?

I am going to write something that would infuriate very many God-fearing, Religious people who believe in Poorva Janma Karma (let me call them as GRPs here on)!

From many of the posts in this Thread and elsewhere, I get this distinct impression that GRPs say that Athiests just can't be moral and normal..

This is assertion is a MYTH and therefore is FALSE.

As a Self Proclaimed Athiest, I have been just a normal "Joe" with all the morality expected of me...

I have been an excellent husband and "wonderful father" to my kids.... and a very kind and considerate neighbor.. IMO.. lol.

I have not gotten a single driving violation ticket in the US (after about 32 years of driving), my credit score is the highest possible, I routinely write big checks for all the disasters around the world, I pay generously towards the School Parent Teacher Associations and the Neighborhood Civic Club... and have been a good Samaritan as much as possible...I have been a Juror and a Jury Head many times in both Civil and Criminal Courts here in the US.

Lately, my doctor an MD, a very orthodox Jewish person asked me whether I would volunteer to donate my sperm for an infertile couple (who seem to like my personality and my kids etc)..

I said, "No... because if I get a baby out of my sperm, then I should have the legal custody to raise that kid... which I am not willing to do at this point in my life....and I don't believe in casually giving away my sperm and forget it... that's against my morality!"

There are hundreds of millions of Atheists happily living like myself in this world.....

You see GRPs:

Morality is within each and every person and is independent of any Belief in God, Religion and Jarman Poorva Karma....

You MUST stop your marketing slogan "God gives Morality and Guidance"!

Peace.

ps. Instead of all this false Propaganda, you the GRPs must introspect and ask yourself the question "Why so many GRPs are immoral (as per your own definition) in India ?"

I know the answer "It's all because of prayers, poojas and bhajans... because these immoral people believe that AFTER committing immorality, they can bribe the Gods by their prayers etc to "clear the records"! Once the previous sins are atoned by the poojas etc, now they feel they are licensed to commit some more crimes and immorality! The cycle keeps running... that's the reason world has so many sinners! LOL.

Most Atheists just don't sin in the first place..they have their conscience and inner "call to do the right thing every time and all the time" LOL.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Y,

I feel it was perfectly alright for tabra parents of the earlier generations to teach their children slokas, sanskrit lessons, religious sermons, mythological stories and all that because in those days the children who grew up as brahmin youth (male or female) could make a living with such accomplishments and the field for them was very very narrow.

But today, the world has undergone a sea-change, particularly in the last 20 or 30 years of computerisation, satellite technology and so on, that children will feel badly cheated if they are fed the same old prescription of slokas, sanskrit lessons, religious sermons, mythological stories, etc., which have very little role to play in their getting settled in life. It will be like a mother trying to breast-feed a grown-up child of ten years

My children, being avid readers, grew up on lots of Amar chitra katha and chandamama, etc. They used to ask certain very tricky questions relating to our mythology but my wife and I used to plainly tell them that these are just stories, products of somebody's imagination, so please don't ask us to explain the rationale. If you want to believe that Vishnu came as half man and half lion, OK but do not ask why he could not have had human face and leonine body, and please do not read these things if they frighten you.

They are now all (more than) fully grown up; one likes teravada buddhism more than brahminism or hinduism, another is a NRI hindu but has no brahmin feelings or airs, and the third is a follower of Aurobindo.

Sangom Sir:

Some of my very religious TBs who gave plenty of religious sermons and Sanskrit lessons to their kids now face very "heart breaking" situations once they are in college:

1. One girl openly bragged in her Face Book that she is a lesbian already married to a classmate!

2. Another boy changed to Christianity because of his girl friend.

3. Another girl changed her last name because "this sounds like some stupid God's name".

4. Another boy is going to synagogue with his girl friend... and it goes on...

These TB parents are asking "What did we do wrong.... why is God punishing us like this?"

And, they are anxiously waiting to see "What would happen to Y's kids behaviorally?"

I tell them, "As adults, my kids can marry anybody they want... I want them to be happy.. that's all"

Wait & watch.

 

[prasad1]

Can a Self-Proclaimed Atheist be a moral and normal person?

I am going to write something that would infuriate very many God-fearing, Religious people who believe in Poorva Janma Karma (let me call them as GRPs here on)!

From many of the posts in this Thread and elsewhere, I get this distinct impression that GRPs say that Athiests just can't be moral and normal..

This is assertion is a MYTH and therefore is FALSE.

As a Self Proclaimed Athiest, I have been just a normal "Joe" with all the morality expected of me...

I have been an excellent husband and "wonderful father" to my kids.... and a very kind and considerate neighbor.. IMO.. lol.

I have not gotten a single driving violation ticket in the US (after about 32 years of driving), my credit score is the highest possible, I routinely write big checks for all the disasters around the world, I pay generously towards the School Parent Teacher Associations and the Neighborhood Civic Club... and have been a good Samaritan as much as possible...I have been a Juror and a Jury Head many times in both Civil and Criminal Courts here in the US.

Lately, my doctor an MD, a very orthodox Jewish person asked me whether I would volunteer to donate my sperm for an infertile couple (who seem to like my personality and my kids etc)..

I said, "No... because if I get a baby out of my sperm, then I should have the legal custody to raise that kid... which I am not willing to do at this point in my life....and I don't believe in casually giving away my sperm and forget it... that's against my morality!"

There are hundreds of millions of Atheists happily living like myself in this world.....

You see GRPs:

Morality is within each and every person and is independent of any Belief in God, Religion and Jarman Poorva Karma....

You MUST stop your marketing slogan "God gives Morality and Guidance"!

Peace.

ps. Instead of all this false Propaganda, you the GRPs must introspect and ask yourself the question "Why so many GRPs are immoral (as per your own definition) in India ?"

I know the answer "It's all because of prayers, poojas and bhajans... because these immoral people believe that AFTER committing immorality, they can bribe the Gods by their prayers etc to "clear the records"! Once the previous sins are atoned by the poojas etc, now they feel they are licensed to commit some more crimes and immorality! The cycle keeps running... that's the reason world has so many sinners! LOL.

Most Atheists just don't sin in the first place..they have their conscience and inner "call to do the right thing every time and all the time" LOL.

I have questions regarding your faith (what ever it be).
What is sin? What is good deed? what is that you do not believe?
To deny the existence of something you have to define that first, So define God?
I do believe that morality is within us and irrespective of the religion.
Morality is time and space bound, and changes from location and in time.
For instance polygamy was accepted norm in most part of the world at some time. IT IS NOT MORAL.
All Aryans ate meat, now for a Brahmin it is immoral.
Divorce was immoral, but it is normal.
Sati was prevalent and accepted, even enforced, but it is abhorrent now.
There is famous old Hindi song:
Yeh pap hai kya yeh punya hai kya
Ritoon per dharam ki Muren hai.

What is papam and what is Punyam/
It is practice at that time, with a stamp of Dharam.

Are you classified as Human? How are you not a follower of Sanatan Dharma. Charvaka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charvaka
Please read this article as well.
http://prateekraj.blogspot.com/2007/10/charvaka-philosophy.html

It is very dangerous to generalize (I know the joke), but communist were/are Atheist. Can you say that do not carry out bad deeds for others?

 

[Yamaka]

I have questions regarding your faith (what ever it be).
What is sin? What is good deed? what is that you do not believe?
To deny the existence of something you have to define that first, So define God?
I do believe that morality is within us and irrespective of the religion.
Morality is time and space bound, and changes from location and in time.
For instance polygamy was accepted norm in most part of the world at some time. IT IS NOT MORAL.
All Aryans ate meat, now for a Brahmin it is immoral.
Divorce was immoral, but it is normal.
Sati was prevalent and accepted, even enforced, but it is abhorrent now.
There is famous old Hindi song:
Yeh pap hai kya yeh punya hai kya
Ritoon per dharam ki Muren hai.

What is papam and what is Punyam/
It is practice at that time, with a stamp of Dharam.

Are you classified as Human? How are you not a follower of Sanatan Dharma. Charvaka C
Please read this article as well.
The Story: Charvaka Philosophy

1. I am an Atheist - I have never worshiped any God of Abrahams or Vedas/Puranas in ALL of my adult life, as many in the Forum know me.

2. "Sin" is what the God-fearing Religious people who believe in Poorva Janma Karma (many in this Thread) define.. I leave that to them..

3. Ask the God people here - what or who is God? They will say "What our Scriptures say!"

Happy to know that you also agree "Morality is within us irrespective of the religion (& God)"

4. Happy to know that all Aryans ate meat... today Brahmins feel it is immoral (although they consume lots of cow's milk, killing indirectly nearly 50% of calves!)

5. "What is papam and what is Punyam/
It is practice at that time, with a stamp of Dharam." If it is the stamp of Dharmam, who gives that license?

I say all are fabrications of some human being, some where, who writes all this Dharmams!

Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

1. I am an Atheist - I have never worshiped any God of Abrahams or Vedas/Puranas in ALL of my adult life, as many in the Forum know me.

2. "Sin" is what the God-fearing Religious people who believe in Poorva Janma Karma (many in this Thread) define.. I leave that to them..

3. Ask the God people here - what or who is God? They will say "What our Scriptures say!"

Happy to know that you also agree "Morality is within us irrespective of the religion (& God)"

4. Happy to know that all Aryans ate meat... today Brahmins feel it is immoral (although they consume lots of cow's milk, killing indirectly nearly 50% of calves!)

5. "What is papam and what is Punyam/
It is practice at that time, with a stamp of Dharam." If it is the stamp of Dharmam, who gives that license?

I say all are fabrications of some human being, some where, who writes all this Dharmams!

Cheers.

My God is the all pervading Supreme soul. God is non judgmental but is the basis of everything.

Even in science you can not create something from nothing. So we have assume ether as the medium in vacuum.

The morality has a lot to do with law of the land, the power in that region (local gunda), your own survival, and unknowingly the culture you were brought up with.

If you live in a society you have to follow the rules of that society.
I see you to claim that you are superior to other TB because you are vegan, that is a laugh. Do you know that plants have life too, and you kill them daily. You breath air you kill millions of Bacteria. You walk on street how many creature die. I hate to burst your bubble. We live our life according to our principles, no better than the next person. So please do not gloat.:smokin:

 

[Yamaka]

"I see you to claim that you are superior to other TB because you are vegan," -post 188.

Show me where and when did I say I am a vegan? Here is what I eat regularly...

Lots of chicken, fish, some eggs, lots of vegetables... occasionally goat and beef!

I guess you confused me for someone else! :llama:

 

[Nara]

Here is something that is apt when discussing poorva janma karma, written by a great leader, a past CM of Tamil Nadu, I found it particularly stirring:

"வானத்திலே மயில் ஆடிடக் கண்டேன் என்று கூறிடுபவனை, என்னவென்று கூறுவீர்கள். வாடைவீசினால் குடியன் என்றோ, இல்லையேல் மூளை குழம்பியவனென்றோ கூறுவர். ஆனால் துர்பாக்கிய மிகுந்த இந்த நாட்டிலே, இல்லாததை உண்டென்பவன், ஞானி. இருப்பதை மாயை என்பவன் வேதாந்தி. இயற்கைக்கு மாறானதை இயம்புவன் கலா நிபுணன். பகுத்தறிவுக்கு ஒவ்வாததை கூறுபவனை பரமபாகவதன். பகற் கொற்ளையிடுபவனைக் குரு என்றும் கூறும் பாமரத்தன்மையிருக்கிறது.

இதை வளர்த்து பயனடையும் கூட்டம் ஒன்றுண்டு. அதன் ஆதினத்தில் எது நடப்பினும் இசை, நடனம், இலக்கியம், நாடகம், சினிமா, பத்திரிக்கை பிரசங்க மேடை ஆகிய எதுவாயிருப்பினும், அவற்றின் மூலம் மக்களிடையே பழமை பரவவும் பரவுவதன் மூலம் மனம் பாழ்படவும் பாழ்பட்டதன் விளைவாக பராரியாகவுமான நிலைமைகளை நீடிக்கச் செய்வதையே கைங்கரியமாக செய்து வருகிறது முன்னேற்றத்தை மூலையில் தள்ளி மடத்தனத்துக்கு மாலையிட்டு உலக முன்னணியிலே ஒதுக்கிடம் பெற்றுக் கிடக்கும் இந்நாட்டுக்கு, இக்கூட்டம் செய்துவரும் கேடு போல், உலகில் எக்காலத்திலும் எங்கும் நடந்ததில்லை என்ற குன்றின் மீதேறி கூறலாம்.
(கட்டுரை - சேலம் வாரீர் - 10.01.1943)"
​

 

[Nara]

Do you know that plants have life too, and you kill them daily.

Dear rajprasad, I agree with you that there is no need for Vegans to gloat, not that I have seen any Vegan doing that, but your reasoning I am afraid is fatally flawed, pardon the unintended pun.

Even Vegans will have to kill is not a license to kill any living being for food, after all, nobody in their right mind will offer that as a justification for killing babies for food, veal of human kind. We have to draw a line somewhere. Where we choose to draw it is a value judgment each of us will have to make, and live with it in peace.

BTW, there are other reasons why some may prefer a Vegan life style, reasons other than objection to killing or other kinds of violence. A meat eater consumes lot more resources to satisfy the palate and sustain life. With earth teetering on climate disaster that may result in wholesale eradication of life as we know it, the stakes may be lot more than killing a few bacteria.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

And then I am surprised you have used a starkly religious word 'emancipation': "With more emancipation and gender equality this practice is slowly changing." Did you mean "with more evolution"?

Saidevo, hats off to you, I am amazed by your skills of wiggling out, one that I can never even come close.

over and out ...

 

[saidevo]

namaste Yamaka.

This is with reference to your post #180.

1. I find that you are not ready to admit that your personal genetic evolution is nothing more than your general knowledge gained out of the knowledge of science, although you have no clue as to how it actually happened.

• If you take a hundred people from a single family tree, chances are that 99 of them will be different in their genetic makeup, specially when you attribute emotional traits to genes.

• You spoke in post #128 about getting to know through genes, the 'difference in our personalities' between your son and you, so this difference applies to you and your parents too. Thus, when 99 people out of 100 are different in their genetic makeup, how do you hope to have a clue as to the exact biological evolution of the specific set of your own genes? The point I am driving at is that what you think as certainty is also belief--name it scientific belief, if you will.

• As against such belief in science, if a person turns his/her belief in spirituality into action by internal inquiry into the personal Self, and persist at it with sincerity, from the documented subjective knowledge of the pioneers in the field, the person can know his/her progress and present state with better certainty than in science.

• Unlike the religious or scientific sociality, there are no races, ethnic groups, castes, creeds and clans involved in the spiritual inquiry: everyone has the same, identical Self as his/her substratum, and it only takes the efforts to attain it.

• And the results that are seen in the path of spiritual progress are also certain: increasing degrees of lasting happiness and peace and their external manifestation into altruism.

2. 'What do you mean by Universal Consciousness?', you asked me.

• You are reiteratively talking about conscious being the product of a cell, and soul as nothing more than the sum total of the individual consciousness of the cells that make up a human body.

• If this is the case, since cells are made up of molecules and atoms, what is your take about consciousness at those levels? I think science classifies them and the energy that drives them as insentient. So, how did the individual consciousness, which was absent at the molecular and atomic level, suddenly crop up at the cellular level? Even if you say that this is due to evolution, how did it happen when the first amoeba sprang into existence as a sentient being, from the primordial soup of nitrogenous compounds?

This may remain as a puzzle to science today, but Vedanta has already known the answer all along, by internal inquiry: the seemingly individual pieces of consciousness are not discrete in reality but only due to the material limitations imposed on the Universal Consciousness, which in turn is the substratum of insentient (and sentient thereby) matter and energy. If AkAsha--space, is the substratum of every form of aggregated matter and energy--sentient or insentient,--the UC is the substratum of that space.

If you seek to contradict this verifiable realization of Vedanta, you must do it with logic--not by abject denial or by thrashing what you don't like.

 

[saidevo]

namaste Nara, Yamaka and others.

Nara, with reference to your post #135 about the discovery of a species of dinosaurs having feathers from which the feathers of modern birds evolved, and your post #169 about the human relationship to dinosaurs inasmuch as every form of life evolved from the single-cell organizms, what do you think of this?

• Inasmuch as man evolved from the primates, why isn't this happening today? That is, why don't today's primates evolve into men and women as they supposedly did in a bygone age? Are there any experiments of crossbreeding between men and primates--genetical if not physical? Would this guarantee the creation of a primitive man?

Incidentally, Hindu purANas seem to have an opposite view. Man, as nara was created by BrahmA, so the mAnasaputras and prajApatis are man's acestors. This means we have the divinity in our genes.

• From man, the kiMnara--heavenly musicians, and the vAnara--monkeys (as forest animals) descended.

HARIBHADRA. Daughter of Kasyapa by Krodha. She was given in marriage to sage Pulaha and from them were born the monkeys, Kinnaras, Kimpurusas etc. (Brahmanda Purana)--Puranic Encyclopedia by Vettam Mani

Thus it seems to me that kinnara and vAnara have the characteristics of the genes of nara--man, sage Pulaha in this case.

 

[sangom]

Refer post#108
"It will be like a [FONT=inherit ! important] [FONT=inherit ! important]mother[/FONT][/FONT] trying to breast-feed a grown-up child of ten years"
You think this funny!!!

I know of a mother who is breast feeding her 9 years old boy even outside her house. We tried to dissuade her, but we got brushed off as her doctor recommended it. This mother has a Phd in psychology and her husband is a surgeon. Both side of the family is highly qualified and are not able to influence the mother.

Shri rajprasad,

If, as you say, breast feeding a 9 or 10 year old child is not funny and a normal thing, how do you seem to justify (not able to influence the mother) the action of both the families in dissuading her from continuing that practice? Is it your case that it is OK up to 9 years and not any longer?

FYI, one of my childhood friends who studied one or two classes below me, used to return from the school and straight go to mother and suck her breast all in public view in the large half-acre compound surrounding their house. He is now a retired govt. servant nearing 70 with son, daughter and problems of marriage for the daughter - sliding to a very protracted court divorce, and property dispute with his son. But that was another day another time, rural Travancore state where most women from the lower tiers did not bother to cover their breasts carefully.

All such rare exceptions don't make the sane rule, imho.

 

[sarang]

Conclusion: Mothers beware; if you breast feed your son longer (how long?) your grand daughter and grandson will go to court for disputes relating to divorce and property. The real beneficiary, the son, will live a long life of comfort, security and pension.

Very interesting!

 

[happyhindu]

• Inasmuch as man evolved from the primates, why isn't this happening today? That is, why don't today's primates evolve into men and women as they supposedly did in a bygone age?

Evolution has not stopped. Molecular evolution is an ongoing process.

Are there any experiments of crossbreeding between men and primates--genetical if not physical? Would this guarantee the creation of a primitive man?

Transgenic animals are possible. If you want, perhaps you can fund a lab (maybe like that of Yamaka ) and ask for a cross breed between human and whichever primate species you want (gorilla, chimp, happyhindu, lemur, loris, monkey, gibbon, etc).

Incidentally, Hindu purANas seem to have an opposite view. Man, as nara was created by BrahmA, so the mAnasaputras and prajApatis are man's acestors. This means we have the divinity in our genes.

• From man, the kiMnara--heavenly musicians, and the vAnara--monkeys (as forest animals) descended.

HARIBHADRA. Daughter of Kasyapa by Krodha. She was given in marriage to sage Pulaha and from them were born the monkeys, Kinnaras, Kimpurusas etc. (Brahmanda Purana)--Puranic Encyclopedia by Vettam Mani

Thus it seems to me that kinnara and vAnara have the characteristics of the genes of nara--man, sage Pulaha in this case.

Whoopsy....parts of our puranas were such goners. Am sorry sir, am unable to beleive whichever is this purana saying heavenly musicians and vanaras descended from man. Am not obliged to believe anything just bcoz a purana says so. Monkey descending from man is the reverse of evolution. Maybe you will get your answers from here - http://www.nematodes.org/teaching/tutorials/phylogenetics/Bayesian_Workshop/PDFs/Hasegawa et al J Mol Evol 1985.pdf

 

[sangom]

Conclusion: Mothers beware; if you breast feed your son longer (how long?) your grand daughter and grandson will go to court for disputes relating to divorce and property. The real beneficiary, the son, will live a long life of comfort, security and pension.

Very interesting!

sarang,

That is probably why mothers do not do it but may be they will change if you give a new ruling! Like to test your authority over Mothers of the world?

 

[prasad1]

I love this explanation of Universal Consciousness.
But I am not against science as it does not contradict what I believe.
Science is not against Brahman (UC). I accept science as generally it is factual. I do not have faith in traditions as basis for dividing and tormenting others. The rigid structure of Tradition with multiple threads known to few (who can not show any reason) is just produces guilt. Make it simple and put it on a page, accepted by majority I can accept it. Just like I accept the constitution in general, with reservations.

 

[prasad1]

Shri rajprasad,

If, as you say, breast feeding a 9 or 10 year old child is not funny and a normal thing, how do you seem to justify (not able to influence the mother) the action of both the families in dissuading her from continuing that practice? Is it your case that it is OK up to 9 years and not any longer?

FYI, one of my childhood friends who studied one or two classes below me, used to return from the school and straight go to mother and suck her breast all in public view in the large half-acre compound surrounding their house. He is now a retired govt. servant nearing 70 with son, daughter and problems of marriage for the daughter - sliding to a very protracted court divorce, and property dispute with his son. But that was another day another time, rural Travancore state where most women from the lower tiers did not bother to cover their breasts carefully.

All such rare exceptions don't make the sane rule, imho.

Mr. Sangom there seems to be problem in translation. You seem to miss the irony of my statement. My post was in reply to a comment made by someone else.