Theory of Karma

[ShivKC]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Proving quantitatively will be harder... but at least I can say that Religions and Gods have killed as many numbers of humans as "other ideologies"

Still, in my mind, I could clearly tell myself what's an excessive sensual behavior..what's a "no.. no" and what's acceptable behavior... my point is you don't NEED to subscribe to any God or Religion to get that "inner RIGHT call".

yam, since you couldn't quantify to compare the killings in the name of religion, i trust, that you will make such statements no more here.

according to religion, those who reject god are not destined to get instant punishment from god, in this 'Janma' it self. it could be on next birth or in hell. so you personally 'doing well without god' will not make you a strange study-specimen, in the eyes of religions. show me one religion which says that, atheists will become illiterate & poor?

they define what is right and wrong for the life and talk about judicial deliverance, in areas where human race/science/evolution/courts has no answer, even in theory too. atheists/dawkins should try to find a way out,here!

that's why i took the eg of debauchery & all other acts law evading? we don't have a system to deliver justice to them, where as 'theory of karma' gives at least a theoretical answer. religion here plays a major role, in controlling the people getting in to such acts, whereas law of land/jails cannot. this is why law of karma is more appealing to me. it will help me to 'warn' my children not to venture in to such acts. some thing is better than nothing, right!

as you said, you can always rely on your inner call, but the problem here is, the inner call is not universal to every human being. one may like to steal and make a living all through the life, and his inner call may justify it citing his poverty. in remote tribal islands,where there is no legal system, killing the next door man to snatch his wife is an approved act both by the society and the individuals call. in this situation, your view may loose the right to condemn such acts,because its the communities inner call, where as religion gives a central authority to condemn them.

as an atheist you are indeed doing good by alms, but in the eyes of atheism, being a bad-samaritan will also not make you a bad man!. what if the grand children tells you, 'com'on you old man, which world are you living. i am running an NGO for natural calamities, where i loot all the donation and no law can catch me'. what advice you have on hand to stop it, other than referring karma? imagine, the law hasn't caught him till death, where is the deliverance of justice, unless you call we humans as just another form of jungle life?

i'm not rejecting your views outright, but what i present here has little better convincing solutions to the human quest to lead a good life with right guidance.

 

[sangom]

Mr. Sangom there seems to be problem in translation. You seem to miss the irony of my statement. My post was in reply to a comment made by someone else.

Shri rajprasad,

Your comment was in response to a sentence in my post#181 here. I am sorry it did not come out as irony to me. Anyway the next response here is of sarang and now I have replied to him. Though I notice the tandem between you and sarang, I did not expect this mix-up between the two of you

 

[saidevo]

namaste smt.HH

You said in post #11:

Transgenic animals are possible. If you want, perhaps you can fund a lab (maybe like that of Yamaka ) and ask for a cross breed between human and whichever primate species you want (gorilla, chimp, happyhindu, lemur, loris, monkey, gibbon, etc).

Perhaps as an independent seeker of truth with more belief in the methods and results of science, you might be better suited to fund such a lab. If I have the money, I would rather fund a fresh research about our itihAsa-purANas and allied texts from their Sanskrit originals.

My query was not meant to tease a non-believer. I only asked about the possibility and if the scientists have thought about it as a means of empirical verification of Darwin's theory of evoution.

 

[saidevo]

namaste Sravana.

You said in post #11:

There is a problem in categorizing thoughts as material. Both of us agree that it travels instantly. Or in other words it exists in whole of space once it is created. If it is a particle that is not possible. Besides even in an aesthetic sense, thoughts being mental energy can be said to transcend the physical space. In other words once produced in space it is everywhere in space and hence rightly is non material.

Thoughts might be classified into those that need to be communicated to another person, those that are meant for personal contemplation and ordinary, idle thoughts for material indulgence. It seems that with the first kind, the communication is instantaneous, as the following extract describes:

It is not easy to describe the substitute for language by means of which ideas are communicated astrally. Sound in the ordinary sense of the word is not possible in the astral world - in fact it is not possible even in the higher part of the physical world. It would also not be correct to say that the language of the astral world is thought-transference: the most that could be said is that it is the transference of thoughts formulated in a particular way.

In the mental world a thought is instantaneously transmitted to the mind of another without any form of words: therefore in the mental world language does not in the least matter. But astral communications lies, as it were, half-way between the thought-transference of the mental world and the concrete speech of the physical, and it is still necessary to [Page 35] to formulate the thought in words. For this exchange it is therefore necessary that the two parties should have a language in common.
Ref: The Astral Body and other Astral Phenomena by Arthur E.Powell

As you said, thoughts do exist in trans-physical space, but in the form of AkAshic Records made of subtle matter. They can be retrieved by a yogi or a trained clairvoyant, so it is possible to read the past and future, depending on the ability of the yogi/clairvoyant.

In the physical world, public thought transmissions (like the TV/radio programs, etc.) through the air in the form of radio waves fill the space, but is it possible to retrieve a program that has already been telecast or to be telecast in future, using a computer system?

 

[sangom]

As you said, thoughts do exist in trans-physical space, but in the form of AkAshic Records made of subtle matter. They can be retrieved by a yogi or a trained clairvoyant, so it is possible to read the past and future, depending on the ability of the yogi/clairvoyant.

since thoughts will relate to the past and imaginations of the past about future, how can future be read by retrieving and reading akashic records by clairvoyant yogi?

Does not clairvoyance itself imply ability to pedict future by perceiving it by means beyond ordinary sense organs? Then why akashic records are needed?

 

[sravna]

namaste Sravana.

As you said, thoughts do exist in trans-physical space, but in the form of AkAshic Records made of subtle matter. They can be retrieved by a yogi or a trained clairvoyant, so it is possible to read the past and future, depending on the ability of the yogi/clairvoyant.

In the physical world, public thought transmissions (like the TV/radio programs, etc.) through the air in the form of radio waves fill the space, but is it possible to retrieve a program that has already been telecast or to be telecast in future, using a computer system?

Dear Shri Saidevo,

Interesting topic indeed.

My view is that physical world exists only in the present. If anything has to be tapped from the past or the future it has to be done in non-physical ways. Both the thoughts and the synthetically generated signals and any other signal have been existing and will exist all along in the spiritual reality. So the special ability such as one possessed by a yogi is needed to do this task. He can not only read the thoughts but can exercise his power over any signal, natural or synthetic. I am very doubtful if without any spiritual ability this can be accomplished.

For the very same reason that physical world exists only in the present, I would rule out the possibility of time travel too.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri sravna and Shri saidevo,

Just to share with you both and get to know....

If we are too closely attached with some one, for example our parents, there are cases when a son/daughter could subtly realize what his/her parent(s) are thinking about them or personally undergoing.

Some times such realization are when we are very much awaken and active and some times in the form of dreams while sleeping.

I believe in the existence of such phenomina and have experienced couple of times. The most significant experiences of them are, one about my sister and one recetly about my Dad (his demise). The feel and realization that I experienced had come true as if I am been clearly notified in advance.

So, I believe thare are some waves/vibrations that subtly get transported to another's mental waves that is well in synch to receive. To me it makes clear that mental thoughts can transcend time within the limitations of this phsycial world/physical life, of the common folks.

In view of the above, IMO, maha yogis could have their mental energies transcend time even beyond this physical world and as such appears to be dumb to others.

IMHO, I don't think science neither can ever track/detect this channel nor the exact transporting unit carrying such thought energies beyond space and time.

The modem is only the spiritual energies that human could tap and experience. And again the correct utilization of this modem depends on the strength of the human's mental energies. Mental energies are the only energies that are versatile and powerful irrespective of the strength of the physical body. These mental energies are part and parcel of the Soul that behaves accordingly in each janma as per resultant accumulations. The purest mental energy/soul could then get liberated becoming a part and parcel of the supreme consciousness of the nature/God.

 

[nachi naga]

suckling breast gives comfort no matter what relationship exists,is a fact.if its mothers breast its more of secure feeling of existance that someone other than themselves is caring for the person.i put most smokers in the insecurity category as they keeping sucking the cigarette butt emulating a long suckling feeling during childhood.in fact while growing inside the womb of the woman a child experiances two different sets of patterns of existance.one that of a giver and the other that of a care taker.karma is like having a thought.you cannot see it with naked eyes,but with scientific instruments one can map the patterns to a large extent and decipher a lot.karma is a flaotation consciousness which gets embedded in matter and start directing a being to a large extent.

 

[saidevo]

namaste Rajprasad.

This is with reference to your post #157. Actually, Hindu texts speak of different types of karma.

• karman--the action through manas-vAk-kAyam--mind, speech and body, that is bound to generate an effect.

• akarman--not performing good works, wicked. RV 10.22.8
A child runs across a busy road and is likely to be hit by a speeding vehicle. A capable adult who just watches it without acting performs akraman. Neglect of senior citizens is another example.

• vikarman--prohibited or unlawful act; acting wrongfully or unlawfully. Mbh.

कित्वान् कुशीलवान् क्‍रूरान् पाषण्डस्थाम्श च मानवान् ।
विकर्मस्थान् शौण्डिकांश च क्षिप्रं निर्वासयेद् पुराद् ॥९.२२५॥

kitvAn kushIlavAn k^rUrAn pAShaNDasthAmsha cha mAnavAn |
vikarmasthAn shauNDikAMsha cha kShipraM nirvAsayed purAd ||9.225||

9.225: Gmblers, dancers and singers, cruel men, men belonging to an heretical sect, those following forbidden occupations, and sellers of spirituous liquor, let him (the king) banish instantly from his town.--manusmRti

• sukarman--performing good and auspicious works. Panchatantra, RAjatarangiNI. Also called puNya-karma--karma that earns merit and shuba-karman.

• kukarman--a wicked, evil or inauspicious deed. Also known as pApa-karman, ashubha-karman.

• ugrakarman--a fierce or violent action. Mbh.

एतां दृष्टिमवष्टभ्य नष्टात्मानोऽल्पबुद्धयः ।
प्रभवन्त्युग्रकर्माणः क्षयाय जगतोऽहिताः ॥१६.९॥

etAM dRuShTimavaShTabhya naShTAtmAno&lpabuddhayaH |
prabhavantyugrakarmANaH kShayAya jagato&hitAH ||16.9||

16.9: Having adopted this view, those whose Self is lost, those of little intelligence, those of wicked deeds, come forth as enemies for the destruction of the world.--bhagavad gItA

In addition to these variants of karma, shrI KRShNa speaks of two others:

कर्मण्यकर्म यः पश्येदकर्मणि च कर्म यः ।
स बुद्धिमान्मनुष्येषु स युक्तः कृत्स्नकर्मकृत् ॥४,१८॥

karmaNyakarma yaH pashyedakarmaNi cha karma yaH |
sa buddhimAnmanuShyeShu sa yuktaH kRutsnakarmakRut ||4,18||

4.18: One who would see inaction in action and action in inaction, such a one is wise among people. That disciplined one performs action in its entirety.--bhagavad gItA

What are these two variants: action in inaction and inaction in action?

• Sitting in a train, we watch the trees move in the opposite direction. Actually, as we (should) know, the trees are still and only our train is moving. Another example is a capable man watches a snake swallow a frog and refrains from action. These are actions in inaction. Thus, the wise would know that the Self is still and only the jIvAtman is the one who acts and experiences the karma-phala--fruits of karma.

• An accomplished yogi does not desire the fruits of his actions. Yet he needs to and does act for the sake of the people around him. Knowing this, the wise would still perform their good actions but with a sense of inaction, without desiring their fruits.

(Ref: http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com/bg04.htm)

 

[sravna]

Shri sravna and Shri saidevo,

Just to share with you both and get to know....

If we are too closely attached with some one, for example our parents, there are cases when a son/daughter could subtly realize what his/her parent(s) are thinking about them or personally undergoing.

Some times such realization are when we are very much awaken and active and some times in the form of dreams while sleeping.

I believe in the existence of such phenomina and have experienced couple of times. The most significant experiences of them are, one about my sister and one recetly about my Dad (his demise). The feel and realization that I experienced had come true as if I am been clearly notified in advance.

So, I believe thare are some waves/vibrations that subtly get transported to another's mental waves that is well in synch to receive. To me it makes clear that mental thoughts can transcend time within the limitations of this phsycial world/physical life, of the common folks.

In view of the above, IMO, maha yogis could have their mental energies transcend time even beyond this physical world and as such appears to be dumb to others.

IMHO, I don't think science neither can ever track/detect this channel nor the exact transporting unit carrying such thought energies beyond space and time.

The modem is only the spiritual energies that human could tap and experience. And again the correct utilization of this modem depends on the strength of the human's mental energies. Mental energies are the only energies that are versatile and powerful irrespective of the strength of the physical body. These mental energies are part and parcel of the Soul that behaves accordingly in each janma as per resultant accumulations. The purest mental energy/soul could then get liberated becoming a part and parcel of the supreme consciousness of the nature/God.

Ravi,

It is my view that a perfect yogi has not only the power to see the reality himself but also has the power to remove maya in general. That way everyone can see the reality. It is because of the maya that we see all the physical effects. The yogi has total control over the effects and has the capability to make them one with the cause.

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi,

It is my view that a perfect yogi has not only the power to see the reality himself but also has the power to remove maya in general. That way everyone can see the reality. It is because of the maya that we see all the physical effects. The yogi has total control over the effects and has the capability to make them one with the cause.

Yes....Perfectly clear. Thank you Shri.sravna...

 

[Yamaka]

For ALL the GRPBs - God fearing, Religious, Poorva Janma Karma Theory Believers - here is an article in NY Times on Richard Dawkins:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/science/20dawkins.html?_r=1&ref=richarddawkins

Enjoy.

More later....

 

[Yamaka]

yam, since you couldn't quantify to compare the killings in the name of religion, i trust, that you will make such statements no more here.

according to religion, those who reject god are not destined to get instant punishment from god, in this 'Janma' it self. it could be on next birth or in hell. so you personally 'doing well without god' will not make you a strange study-specimen, in the eyes of religions. show me one religion which says that, atheists will become illiterate & poor?

they define what is right and wrong for the life and talk about judicial deliverance, in areas where human race/science/evolution/courts has no answer, even in theory too. atheists/dawkins should try to find a way out,here!

that's why i took the eg of debauchery & all other acts law evading? we don't have a system to deliver justice to them, where as 'theory of karma' gives at least a theoretical answer. religion here plays a major role, in controlling the people getting in to such acts, whereas law of land/jails cannot. this is why law of karma is more appealing to me. it will help me to 'warn' my children not to venture in to such acts. some thing is better than nothing, right!

as you said, you can always rely on your inner call, but the problem here is, the inner call is not universal to every human being. one may like to steal and make a living all through the life, and his inner call may justify it citing his poverty. in remote tribal islands,where there is no legal system, killing the next door man to snatch his wife is an approved act both by the society and the individuals call. in this situation, your view may loose the right to condemn such acts,because its the communities inner call, where as religion gives a central authority to condemn them.

as an atheist you are indeed doing good by alms, but in the eyes of atheism, being a bad-samaritan will also not make you a bad man!. what if the grand children tells you, 'com'on you old man, which world are you living. i am running an NGO for natural calamities, where i loot all the donation and no law can catch me'. what advice you have on hand to stop it, other than referring karma? imagine, the law hasn't caught him till death, where is the deliverance of justice, unless you call we humans as just another form of jungle life?

i'm not rejecting your views outright, but what i present here has little better convincing solutions to the human quest to lead a good life with right guidance.

Shiv:

What all you say is "According to Religion" - A Belief. According to WHICH Religion A, B, C or D? (This is the conflict that I normally refer to in other posts)

What I am saying all along is " I don't BELIEVE in any of those Religions, their Gods and the Theory of Janma Poorva Karma"

For me, only one life in this world - I live according to my "inner call" and either by accident or by old age I die. My life ends there.... for me no more Judgement Day, no Hell or Heaven, no Rebirth, as per my view of me and the world around me...

I am happy that hundreds of millions of people like me - Athiests - live in this world peacefully...

Let the God-fearing, Religious people believe in Janma Poorva Karma Theory and face the wrath of their Gods when they routinely engage in debauchery!

The key in all this is, your Gods (Gods of Abraham or Vedas/Puranas/Upanishads) will not touch/affect me or Richard Dawkins (please read the NY Times article on him).

Peace.

ps. The TRUTH is all Religions and Gods are CREATED by Man... It's his mischief to control, regulate and dominate the innocent victims - the followers - the BELIEVERS, IMO.

 

[prasad1]

For ALL the GRPBs - God fearing, Religious, Poorva Janma Karma Theory Believers - here is an article in NY Times on Richard Dawkins:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/20/science/20dawkins.html?_r=1&ref=richarddawkins

Enjoy.

More later....

I never heard of this characterization(grpb).:laugh:

I dont have to love or hate God.
I have my personal religion or value system.
PB yes.

I suppose you deny space exists as you can not feel it or know about it. If you think you can deny gravity try jumping from 10 story building. Just because you deny the karmas, it does not mean the effects of karmas would not effect you.

But then again it is your world, I have no argument with you. why are you a brhamin? and why are you in this site? if you do not like the majority you can always move to a site that suits you, unless of course you are here to humiliate and show your superiority.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Saidevo: Re: Post #193

I can continue talking Science to you if you may kindly tell briefly about you - your background in education, specialization (Engineer, IT Professional, Biologist, Sociologist, Anthropologist), current profession and where do you work now etc. etc.

I have given voluntarily lots of my information.

This would help me to engage fruitfully by appropriately answering your inquiries....

Peace.

p.s You may refuse to disclose it also... that's your prerogative... a Civil Right, LOL.

 

[nachi naga]

I never heard of this characterization(grpb).:laugh:

I dont have to love or hate God.
I have my personal religion or value system.
PB yes.

I suppose you deny space exists as you can not feel it or know about it. If you think you can deny gravity try jumping from 10 story building. Just because you deny the karmas, it does not mean the effects of karmas would not effect you.

But then again it is your world, I have no argument with you. why are you a brhamin? and why are you in this site? if you do not like the majority you can always move to a site that suits you, unless of course you are here to humiliate and show your superiority.

i think this is a summation of my opinion too.wonder why atheist tool around here?never wrote abt their presence here becoz it gives a perspective of non-believers.i really like the analogies that you have cited.nice to have you around prasad.

 

[Yamaka]

"I suppose you deny space exists as you can not feel it or know about it. If you think you can deny gravity try jumping from 10 story building. Just because you deny the karmas, it does not mean the effects of karmas would not effect you.

But then again it is your world, I have no argument with you. why are you a brhamin? and why are you in this site? if you do not like the majority you can always move to a site that suits you, unless of course you are here to humiliate and show your superiority." post 214.

1 When did I deny space? When did I deny gravity?

Yes, I deny and ridicule Karma specifically the Janma Poorva Karma variety... not just Karma or Action or Behavior !

2. When did I say I am a Brahmin? I said I have been an Atheist in all my adult life (about 40 years!)

3. Why am I in this site? Ask Praveen, the owner and his policy!

4. I don't like the Tyranny of the Majority..so I am here to battle with it! Lol.

My sole aim is not to humiliate you... perhaps you are being very super sensitive!

5. I am just a normal "Joe" - why do I have any superiority?

That's the province of the Brahmin Supramacist, like my own fil, LOL...

- :llama:

 

[prasad1]

"I suppose you deny space exists as you can not feel it or know about it. If you think you can deny gravity try jumping from 10 story building. Just because you deny the karmas, it does not mean the effects of karmas would not effect you.

But then again it is your world, I have no argument with you. why are you a brhamin? and why are you in this site? if you do not like the majority you can always move to a site that suits you, unless of course you are here to humiliate and show your superiority." post 214.

1 When did I deny space? When did I deny gravity?

Yes, I deny and ridicule Karma specifically the Janma Poorva Karma variety... not just Karma or Action or Behavior !

2. When did I say I am a Brahmin? I said I have been an Atheist in all my adult life (about 40 years!)

3. Why am I in this site? Ask Praveen, the owner and his policy!

4. I don't like the Tyranny of the Majority..so I am here to battle with it! Lol.

My sole aim is not to humiliate you... perhaps you are being very super sensitive!

5. I am just a normal "Joe" - why do I have any superiority?

That's the province of the Brahmin Supramacist, like my own fil, LOL...

- :llama:

You are very troubled human being (soul less)(or is that too an assumption). You are not normal as your single purpose is to show off and mock others. That is not normal human behavior. Actually every living thing wants to be in a group where they belong. It is free world and I believe in freedom of expression. But just to irritate others is very low form of living.

 

[Yamaka]

You are very troubled human being (soul less)(or is that too an assumption). You are not normal as your single purpose is to show off and mock others. That is not normal human behavior. Actually every living thing wants to be in a group where they belong. It is free world and I believe in freedom of expression. But just to irritate others is very low form of living.

In fact, some of what you wrote in your previous posts I liked...

Now, I have to tell you:

If I bother you so much, just don't read my posts...

....you will be better off not reading posts from others also (like M/s Nara, HH, Sangom Sir, K etc) in this General Discussion Section... that's meant for Open Minded People!

Or you can throw choicest words at me... and keep enjoying your POV....

You have CHOICES in life!

Take care of your emotions!

 

[happyhindu]

namaste smt.HH

You said in post #11:

Transgenic animals are possible. If you want, perhaps you can fund a lab (maybe like that of Yamaka ) and ask for a cross breed between human and whichever primate species you want (gorilla, chimp, happyhindu, lemur, loris, monkey, gibbon, etc).

Perhaps as an independent seeker of truth with more belief in the methods and results of science, you might be better suited to fund such a lab. If I have the money, I would rather fund a fresh research about our itihAsa-purANas and allied texts from their Sanskrit originals.

My query was not meant to tease a non-believer. I only asked about the possibility and if the scientists have thought about it as a means of empirical verification of Darwin's theory of evoution.

Dear Shri Saidevo,
I thot bracketing happyhindu with other primates will bring a smile (maybe my sense of comedy is poor, but i was really thinking my reply will make you smile). Am very sorry and apologise that my reply was not ok.

Also, if i may say so, i feel the puranic reference you have provided does not relate to evolution. According to Mahabharat, Pulastya was the progenitor of Poulastyas of whom the Vanaras and Kinnaras were descendents. Here the Vanaras do not mean actual Apes. Its the tribal totemic identification of human clans using the ape as their totem (they used the Kapi-dhwaja).

According to the Vishnudharmottara-Purana the families of Agastya, Pulaha, Pulastya and Kratu are declared to be the same. So maybe that is why the Puranic reference you gave posits Pulaha as the ancestor of Vanaras; although the Mahabharat says Pulastya was their ancestor.

Pulaha gave his daughters (Garudi and Mayoori) in marriage to Garuda and thus the Garuda family came to be related to this group. It wud seem that tribes using animal/bird totems (like Garudas and Kapis) were related in an ancient time.

Apparently the Saptarshis of the first 'manvantara' were Marichi, Atri, Angiras, Pulaha, Kratu, Pulastya, and Vashishtha. They were the brahmins in the old time.

But they got replaced by the saptarishis of the present 'manvantara' -- Kashyapa, Atri, Vashishtha, Vishvamitra, Gautama, Jamadagni, Bharadvaja. Interestingly Only Atri and Vashista survived into the new ‘manvantara’. This could lead us to several theories how and why the other Saptarishi descendents got removed from their brahmana positions.

Was reading in some book (forgot which one though) that according to some Jaina traditions the Vanaras were forefathers of Ravana. In hindu tradition also Ravana is a descendent of Pulastya. Seems like in Jaina narrations the Kapi (vanara) vidyadharas were followers of Rishabha and jaina siddhanta.

However, it appears the kapi groups were a divided lot. There was a paper by JM Masson on fratricide amongst the monkeys (Kapis) of Ramayana. It may be possible that some were opposed to vedic sacrifices; while some showed acceptance.

If we reconcile the Jaina and Hindu narratives it may seem that the Pulastya-kapi faction of Hanuman, Sugriva, Vibhshana, etc supported Rama and vedic sacrifices; while the Pulastya-kapi faction of Ravana, Indrajit were opposed to it.

In terms of culture, perhaps this will help, [Ref: Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, p.358] (continued from the Gothram-alumni thread):

The gotra of the Kaundinyas, which traces its descent from Vasistha, and to which belonged, as we saw above, the wife of Mahavira, the founder of the Jain sect, takes its name, as does the gotra of the Kapis, from the ape; and in the passage of the Kacchapajataka where it is said to the tortoise which had fastened upon the genital parts of an ape, ''Tortoises are Kasyapas, apes are Kaundinyas ; Kasyapa let go the Kaundinya, thou has effected copulation'' - we have an allusion - in terms of the beast-fable - to the matrimonial relations subsisting between the two human families..

If, then, as seems probable from the foregoing, totemistic ideas were not unknown among the ancient India gotras, it becomes quite intelligible that ancestor-worship and exogamy, as found among the less civilized aborigines, should have come to prevail in these gotras as well. For, while the dissemination and pervasive of Brahmanical culture in the conquered country is a fact beyond dispute, we must nevertheless not forget that, on the other hand, the primitive usages and ideas of the native races did not fail to operate profoundly upon the culture and development of the conquerors themselves.

Just as the native practice of exogamy was abosrbed into the system of gotras, it may be posible that pockets of people also got absorbed into the brahmanical grouping. So perhaps that is why much later we find Asvalayana assigning the Kapis as ganas under the Bharadvaja gotra.

Nevertheless, in Srilanka the Kapuralas are considered native heredity priests till today. They cud be analogous to their Indian counterparts, the brahmins. The ideas of 'manvantaras' and displacement by new-brahmins, probably did not affect them much. These Kapuralas are very much Human, and not Apes....

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Yamaka,

I see you as a strong-willed person. Hard-working and honest. Maybe i too am mentally strong; but am unable to let go of beleif in God. I feel faith can be therapeutic on a personal note. If utilized positively, faith can bring and keep a family together, in the form of a small loving family praying together.

I beleive to be an atheist one needs to have a very strong mind. Generally, the moment one is in difficulty it is natural to seek some hope, some support in the form of God.

I enjoy your posts very much though my views differ here and there. I salute you sir for being what you are. Not many people can live life without the need for God as you have.

Please do not be distracted by some certain posters here. You do not need to engage them. Please do remember that there are people out there who enjoy reading your posts though they may not be directly participating in the forum. The younger generation which seeks to be mentally strong, analyse everything before accepting anything, will especially would resonate with your views.

Regards.

 

[renuka]

You are very troubled human being (soul less)(or is that too an assumption). You are not normal as your single purpose is to show off and mock others. That is not normal human behavior. Actually every living thing wants to be in a group where they belong. It is free world and I believe in freedom of expression. But just to irritate others is very low form of living.

Dear Prasad,

You know what always amazes me is some people are always 100% sure that their way of thinking is right.They give no scope for others to even voice their opinion. All they do is play fighter pilot and shoot at sight.

A truly learned person will always listen to every angle of any discussion and not just shoot off "I am right and no matter what you say you are wrong".
There might be many points we agree with anyone be it Theist or Atheist or Agnostics cos all of us learn from each other.

But there is another category who have no real stand in life but just out to cause havoc where ever they go and they need their daily dose of troubling others..thats their food.
So just dont supply them with their badly needed food and they will wither away like a succubus or incubus who has no victim.

P.S I have come to believe that Education does not always confer knowledge.

 

[ShivKC]

....you will be better off not reading posts from others also (like M/s Nara, HH, Sangom Sir, K etc) in this General Discussion Section... that's meant for Open Minded People!

open mindedness! all the world's a stage.

one (atheist) who simply with ease rejects god without attempting any exploration, has to be called as blind folded person

(OR)

a theist who attempts to seek and explore an unseen god, and still continues that pursuit of invention/exploration of god, especiall with a very very weak evidence on hand. isn't that a great trait!



science has developed this fast in to this level, mainly because, of the theist's natural trait of exploring and inventing an unknown thing.. thats one reason, early religions excelled well in astronomy and mathematics.

a quest for unknown! isn't that a great quality

so who is close minded here?

 

[saidevo]

namast Yamaka.

I am a retired professional with a good number of years of experience in IT and banking; my knowledge of science is what I studied during my college days, majoring in Physics (all that is rusty now); and I neither have the inclination nor the time now to revive them, so you may spare me the details and explain what you can in layperson's language.

My queries on the findings of science are meant to encourage some lateral thinking, specially for the Indian/Hindu followers of science, taking into account the Hindu philosophical ideas. If you can't do it, it is fine with me. If you find my queries useless, you are free to ignore them, although I cannot avoid posting them, if you seek to criticise Hindu philosophy, spirituality and religion, by abject denial rather than by logical refutation.

 

[saidevo]

namaste smt.HH.

This is wrt to your post #220. Frankly, I did not notice your having included your name in the primates list. Your sense of comedy is good enough, only that my mind did not register what my eyes skipped over. So, no need to feel sorry or apologize, and I am sorry if I overreacted.

Thank you for your clarification of the human-ape relationship citing the puranic sources and their Western interpretation.